Blade (MB) MythBuster

[TheDeanAbides]

28 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Except he's talking about a lack of control. "Stuff" getting between the ball and the club face is almost never a good thing regardless of club type.

 

But I'm confused (sadly not a rare thing). Remind me how this works again.

 

A primary advantage of blades is that they are more maneuverable. It's easier to curve the ball either way. Not so ?

 

So how does the CB, which does spin less, go further off line ? 

No, that's a myth. Moving the ball left to right is about d-plane and it's just as easy with any iron. It has nothing to do with spin. 

 

Spin is about distance control. The more spin an iron imparts the less likely it'll drop so low that it flies 20 yards too far when moisture and grass gets between it and a ball. 

[pinestreetgolf]

5 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

No, that's a myth. Moving the ball left to right is about d-plane and it's just as easy with any iron. It has nothing to do with spin. 

 

Spin is about distance control. The more spin an iron imparts the less likely it'll drop so low that it flies 20 yards too far when moisture and grass gets between it and a ball. 

 

 

The D-Plane is all about spin.  That's all it is.  How else would a ball know how to curve except with sidespin?  The D-Plane is simply an expression of how attack angle effects swing path e.g. the steeper the swing the more out-to-in-like the spin.  The D-Plane is, literally, about nothing but spin.

 

Distance control spin is backspin.  Backspin keeps a ball airborne.

 

There is more than one kind of spin in golf.

Edited January 4, 2021 by pinestreetgolf

[nsxguy]

7 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Just like a low spin high launch driver.  Low spin is harder to control.  That’s not my opinion. That’s fact. Higher spin ,  It flies shorter.  But it’s predictable.  Ever seen the low cut guy with driver that never misses a fairway ?  That’s why. He’s spinning it around 3500k rpm.  Always goes out left and comes back.  
 

 Even if it’s a guy who can’t control it into the green. It’s still predictable. He KNOWS that full wedge will suck back.  So he doesn’t hit it if he can’t keep it on.  
 

That’s  my issue with the irons im playing right now. Too low spin.  You never know where to aim.  Sometimes it spins enough to draw.  Most times not.  But sometimes it will.  Lol.  So do you guess and aim  straight or right or ?    If it spins enough , you can predict it’s going to draw or fade.  Then it becomes a question of how much ?  So you calculate the miss to accept not enough.  Which is a straight ball .  You also learn how  to take spin off snd hit it straight on purpose.  This is now what you call “control” . When the spin is low there’s very little ways to add spin and achieve this “ control “.  

 

But we're not talking about drivers.

 

The way I've seen it explained, to keep it simple, if a driver (back)spins at 3000 and (side)spins at 500 you get a nice little draw. If that same 3000 BS, SS at 1500, it dives to the hook side and dies quickly. I've seen this on LMs and on the course.

 

But with irons, which backspins much higher, say an 8 iron around 6000, that same off axis SS (1500) will NOT curve it as much as with the driver.

 

Now, one would say then, if the CB spins less, which it does, the ratio says it would curve MORE. But that's not what we see. Why is that ?

 

Could it be the corrective action of the slight-to-extreme perimeter weighting of the CB that, strike angle-to-strike angle, actually DOES produce LESS SS (off axis tilt) ?

[nsxguy]

10 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

No, that's a myth. Moving the ball left to right is about d-plane and it's just as easy with any iron. It has nothing to do with spin. 

 

Spin is about distance control. The more spin an iron imparts the less likely it'll drop so low that it flies 20 yards too far when moisture and grass gets between it and a ball. 

 

What is a myth ? That CBs curve less than MBs ?

 

 

[Nard_S]

2 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

No, that's a myth. Moving the ball left to right is about d-plane and it's just as easy with any iron. It has nothing to do with spin. 

 

Spin is about distance control. The more spin an iron imparts the less likely it'll drop so low that it flies 20 yards too far when moisture and grass gets between it and a ball. 

Look up the definition of MOI, of inertia. It takes more effort to facilitate impact where face is not square. Open face to path or closed to path face. Higher MOI works against those very dispositions. In part it's why it's "game improving". A quiet perk to CB's is they tolerate sloppy, over active hands. MB's are more transparent about hand skills,.

 

You can do ball working with GI/SGI. Ping's are real strong at this imo. But, risk of double cross actually goes up. I avoided ball shaping with higher MOI MB's or CB's. Full blooded MB's are much easier shape and are flat out more intuitive.

 

[bladehunter]

1 minute ago, nsxguy said:

 

But we're not talking about drivers.

 

The way I've seen it explained, to keep it simple, if a driver (back)spins at 3000 and (side)spins at 500 you get a nice little draw. If that same 3000 BS, SS at 1500, it dives to the hook side and dies quickly. I've seen this on LMs and on the course.

 

But with irons, which backspins much higher, say an 8 iron around 6000, that same off axis SS (1500) will NOT curve it as much as with the driver.

 

Now, one would say then, if the CB spins less, which it does, the ratio says it would curve MORE. But that's not what we see. Why is that ?

 

Could it be the corrective action of the slight-to-extreme perimeter weighting of the CB that, strike angle-to-strike angle, actually DOES produce LESS SS (off axis tilt) ?

There is only one spin. Not side and back.

 

the side to side is controlled by face and swing path .  
 

same here.  Low spin on an iron could work IF you could guarantee a perfect face and path everytime.  But you can’t. Higher Spin will help forgive this path and face alignment to path irregularities.  Meaning I can predict a draw or a fade.  And sim accordingly.  I cannot predict a dead strait ball.  It’s too rare to do so.  So you now rely totally on face and path.  So you swing for a draw and don’t get the face well closed to that path , it doesn’t have a chance of drawing.  It’s a big high flush hit push.  Going going gone ! 

[gators78]

32 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Except he's talking about a lack of control. "Stuff" getting between the ball and the club face is almost never a good thing regardless of club type.

 

But I'm confused (sadly not a rare thing). Remind me how this works again.

 

A primary advantage of blades is that they are more maneuverable. It's easier to curve the ball either way. Not so ?

 

So how does the CB, which does spin less, go further off line ? 

 

Exactly. Forget the CB vs MB thing for a minute, it's low vs. higher spinning. If you have a distance club optimized with a higher launch/low spin profile in perfect conditions, and then add in some debris (which will take any club's spin down some percentage) or mishit it just a bit, and it could be too low spinning. It might go the right distance, it likely won't...add in some wind and it's a total crapshoot where a flyer 6 iron could end up. Drivers, totally different story entirely, different goal with a driver than an 8 iron. 

 

I was actually fit into irons and the guy was trying to play the distance game (distance sells), so I ended up with Miuras that barely had enough spin on a driving range mat. Out on the course, it was a total mess, it could be 25 yards difference between 7 irons out of the first cut. After others sets I went to a different fitter and asked for higher than average spin and lower than average launch, the MB head was for the launch angle, changed shafts for the higher spin. This past year was the best I've played, amazingly more predictable. And yes, I don't hit it as far as the Miuras, and it's glorious. 

[nsxguy]

10 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

There is only one spin. Not side and back.

 

the side to side is controlled by face and swing path .  
 

same here.  Low spin on an iron could work IF you could guarantee a perfect face and path everytime.  But you can’t. Higher Spin will help forgive this path and face alignment to path irregularities.  Meaning I can predict a draw or a fade.  And sim accordingly.  I cannot predict a dead strait ball.  It’s too rare to do so.  So you now rely totally on face and path.  So you swing for a draw and don’t get the face well closed to that path , it doesn’t have a chance of drawing.  It’s a big high flush hit push.  Going going gone ! 

 

blade, my brotha from anotha motha,

 

After all this time i would've hoped you knew that I knew the ball only spins one way. I'd have thought you'd have caught that with my final sentence ("off axis tilt") - if you read that far  

 

As for the rest, who was talking about a straight ball ? Or a perfect face and path every time ? Face angle and path determine the curvature ? Who knew ? 

 

So why then does a CB curve less, with the SAME face-to-path angle ? Or does it not do that ?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by nsxguy

[Pepperturbo]

On 12/28/2020 at 7:21 PM, hypergolf said:

It has been about a week now since I transitioned from CB to MB.

 

Now that I became accustomed to the new set MBs and my distance in my long irons back to normal, I have personally busted some pre-conception (myths) about blades.

 

Following are what I have noticed or some myths that have been busted:

 

1. You will lose distance with blades - BUSTED - In the beginning when I was transitioning from CB to MB, I did lose distance in my 4-6 iron by half club to a club. But I realized that it was more the bad habits I formed with CBs that created this distance loss. Now all my distance are back to normal despite weaker loft and I have learned to focus and commit 100% to the shots I am making.

 

2. Blades are more punishing than cavity backs - SEMI-BUSTED - Yes, they are more punishing in terms of distance loss when you mishit. But score card wise, they are actually better. When you mishit a blade, the ball does not fly off into the woods, rough or water but because of the significant distance loss you actually have a better second shot chance from the first initial mishit most of the time.

 

3. You need good swing to play with blades - SEMI-BUSTED - Blades will force you to swing better and have better ball contact if you want your fingers intact after a round of golf. My swing has become better ever since I transitioned. My friends who play with game improvement or even some CB irons who hit well with their own can't hit MB with their current swing. This kind of shows that they are currently not swinging the correct way. I think blades force you to correct your swing and not overkill your iron shots.

 

4. Blades have higher spin rate - CONFIRMED - Not only can you exaggerate fades and draws, the actual backspin rates seems higher than CBs. Having weaker loft definitely helps increase backspin but I am shocked to see how short irons just have one bounce then stops on the green.

 

5. Blades feel better than CBs/game improvement irons - CONFIRMED - The pure feel when struck on the center of the face is pure bliss. Even player CBs don't feel this good. Now I am a true believer of blade "feel" and understand why some people tend to gravitate towards MBs. Once you go blade, I think it will be difficult to come back...

 

I think the moral of the story is that people should have an open mind and give it a good week or two for transition period before jumping to conclusions (or selling off their MB purchase) after only one or two swings on a simulator. Blades also feel different off the mat vs actual turf on the fairway (grass). Once you experience it you will want that solid, unforgettable MB feel every time you hit a golf shot. I am totally converted.

NOT all MBs are fully contemporary in design, so your assessment is better aligned to the MBs you have. 

 

I have been playing traditional blades for thirty years.  Your assessment doesn't apply to my 620 MBs.   A week or two transition doesn't apply either.  It's a bit too optimistic. Lol

 

Dang, there are a lot of alleged experts here.  LOL

Edited January 4, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[Nard_S]

4 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

After all this time i would've hoped you knew that I knew the ball only spins one way. I'd have thought you'd have caught that with my final sentence ("off axis tilt) - if you read that far  

 

As for the rest, who was talking about a straight ball ? Or a perfect face and path every time ? Face angle and path determine the curvature ? Who knew ? 

 

So why then does a CB curve less, with the SAME face-to-path angle ? Or does it not do that ?

 

 

For the same loft, the initial spin is 10% greater. More spin, more move.

[Z1ggy16]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

That’s a funny point.   I learned to drive in a solid lifter 327 65 4 speed corvette.  Basically a race car.    So I’d say yes.  If you can parallel park a vette while keeping it from loading up and fouling a plug , not scaring the dmv lady and not choking her down , then you likely can outdrive the dude in his moms civic.  Sure. Practice is involved.  But if you’re going to put in the work. Why not put it on performance, not reliability ?    If you Don’t plan to work , then There’s really no need in having a discussion on performance.  
 

remember. Necessity is the mother of invention.  We can do what we “ have to “ much easier than if there’s a choice.   

I don't agree. If you wanted to learn how to ride a motorcycle, what's going to be the easier/better path to being a safe rider (1) a slower/less aggresive junkie cruiser with 20hp or (2) a 1000cc 100hp sport bike that gets a light front end quicker than you can say "oh no"?

 

Sure, us humans can adapt and make many things work, but that doesn't mean it's optimal or correct.

 

but hey! I understand what you're saying and where you come from, I just don't think handing an unskilled golfer blades and expect them to become better just because it's a slightly harder club to hit is a great way to teach a better swing or ball striking. I think the hardware should match the skill in most situations.

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

blade, my brotha from anotha motha,

 

After all this time i would've hoped you knew that I knew the ball only spins one way. I'd have thought you'd have caught that with my final sentence ("off axis tilt") - if you read that far  

 

As for the rest, who was talking about a straight ball ? Or a perfect face and path every time ? Face angle and path determine the curvature ? Who knew ? 

 

So why then does a CB curve less, with the SAME face-to-path angle ? Or does it not do that ?

 

 

 

 

 

Curves less doesn’t necessarily mean curves in a more predictable manner  .   And by cb.  I’m only talking about these low spin heads.  I have zero issues with a solid built CB.  There are interlopers of either namesake.  Take the razr MB.  It’s not an mb at all.  It’s more Cb that a j40 cb.  And on and on. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by bladehunter

[bladehunter]

I guess the thought that alwasy comes to mind is why.  ?  Why are the slots 3-pw the only slots in the golf bag that we consider to be handicap dependent ?  Think for a moment.  
 

we all play drivers.  3 woods , wedges , and putters that the best players in the world play.  And then it comes to irons , and for some reason it becomes not about fitment. But about handicap.  Lol.   It’s nuts.  It should be about fitment. Period.  You can play an mb to the 6 iron snd put hybrids on top.  Etc.  if it fits you.  But most never try. They have no clue what fits and what doesn’t. They still rely on others to tell them what t be afraid of. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by bladehunter

[Red4282]

Alot of misunderstandings mentioned. First Spin doesnt always mean control. The more the spin axis is tilted, more spin will take it further offline. What IS control, is loft. The more loft is presented, the harder it is to tilt the spin axis. So its not the spin that gives control, its loft. Now you need a certain amount of spin to keep the ball airborne for a particular launch and speed, but more isnt always better. Where it could be argued, is if sand, dirt,grass or water is introduced, you will retain enough spin with a higher spinning club to not have the ball knuckle out of the sky.

 

the Dplane typically is thought of in 2D terms, Dynamic loft minus angle of attack, but in reality its a 3 dimensional. It can be titled to display spin axis.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Red4282

[bladehunter]

34 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Alot of misunderstandings mentioned. First Spin doesnt always mean control. The more the spin axis is tilted, more spin will take it further offline. What IS control, is loft. The more loft is presented, the harder it is to tilt the spin axis. So its not the spin that gives control, its loft. Now you need a certain amount of spin to keep the ball airborne for a particular launch and speed, but more isnt always better. Where it could be argued, is if sand, dirt,grass or water is introduced, you will retain enough spin with a higher spinning club to not have the ball knuckle out of the sky.

 

the Dplane typically is thought of in 2D terms, Dynamic loft minus angle of attack, but in reality its a 3 dimensional. It can be titled to display spin axis.

Maybe I should clarify my thought.  Spin by itself doesn’t mean control.  I suppose that’s right.  I assume spin in a controlled form.  As in a person with a face or path issue that’s off enough to be that crooked.  Well that’s not a club concern.  That’s a swing concern. 100 %.  I’m not up for blaming clubs for things like that.  
 

so assuming a swing that’s on the planet , spin will equal control more so than a knuckle ball . Yes ? That’s what I meant. And of course “ more “ rides on the assumption that it’s not enough to just ballon in an uncomfortable manner. 
 

the greater point is a lot of these irons are too low spin for a good player that produces speed and spin . Much less one who needs more control.  The “ fliers “ that guys with speed experience with these irons is simply a high launch very low spin strike. You simply cannot recreate that type strike with an iron that doesn’t add dynamic loft on its own like a spring faced iron can.  
 

I truly believe that a lot of players could benefit from more spin , and a lower Vcog iron than today’s GI etc irons when talking about irons up to a 5/6 iron.  

[nsxguy]

4 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I guess the thought that alwasy comes to mind is why.  ?  Why are the slots 3-pw the only slots in the golf bag that we consider to be handicap dependent ?  Think for a moment.  
 

we all play drivers.  3 woods , wedges , and putters that the best players in the world play.  And then it comes to irons , and for some reason it becomes not about fitment. But about handicap.  Lol.   It’s nuts.  It should be about fitment. Period.  You can play an mb to the 6 iron snd put hybrids on top.  Etc.  if it fits you.  But most never try. They have no clue what fits and what doesn’t. They still rely on others to tell them what t be afraid of. 

 

Don't need a moment.

 

Irons are your scoring clubs.

 

You hit one of your irons on virtually every hole.

 

Miss the green you don't score that well.

 

Hit the green 30-40 feet away and your score a little better.

 

Hit the green inside 20 feet and you score better still.

 

Hit the green inside 10 feet and you're golden.

 

THAT is why irons are so important. 

[Red4282]

51 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Maybe I should clarify my thought.  Spin by itself doesn’t mean control.  I suppose that’s right.  I assume spin in a controlled form.  As in a person with a face or path issue that’s off enough to be that crooked.  Well that’s not a club concern.  That’s a swing concern. 100 %.  I’m not up for blaming clubs for things like that.  
 

so assuming a swing that’s on the planet , spin will equal control more so than a knuckle ball . Yes ? That’s what I meant. And of course “ more “ rides on the assumption that it’s not enough to just ballon in an uncomfortable manner. 
 

the greater point is a lot of these irons are too low spin for a good player that produces speed and spin . Much less one who needs more control.  The “ fliers “ that guys with speed experience with these irons is simply a high launch very low spin strike. You simply cannot recreate that type strike with an iron that doesn’t add dynamic loft on its own like a spring faced iron can.  
 

I truly believe that a lot of players could benefit from more spin , and a lower Vcog iron than today’s GI etc irons when talking about irons up to a 5/6 iron.  

Yes, You should aim for a spin “window”.

not so low that you that you get a knuckly dipper with a high strike or out of some rough. Not too high that should the axis get tilted, the offline is managable. The reason spring or cup faces dont spin as much a solid iron, is because its not as a “glancing” blow, therefore the higher ball speeds and smash, with less spin- but again this is only at lofts less than 35 degrees.

[bladehunter]

53 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Don't need a moment.

 

Irons are your scoring clubs.

 

You hit one of your irons on virtually every hole.

 

Miss the green you don't score that well.

 

Hit the green 30-40 feet away and your score a little better.

 

Hit the green inside 20 feet and you score better still.

 

Hit the green inside 10 feet and you're golden.

 

THAT is why irons are so important. 

Disagree really.  If a person plays the correct tees they’ll have at least 5 or more wedges in.   If you play par 5s as 3 shotters the. Add 4 more.     Driver and putter is by far the most important.   Followed by whatever your 180-220 yard clubs are.  Far more lost strokes according to strokes gained stats from the long iron yardages that wedges or mid irons.  And here’s the rub there. Most players nowadays have hybrids in those spots. So iron set doesn’t come into play either.  
 

Which is why I said. 99% play blade wedges.   And 100 % play drivers that we alll see on tv either now or in days gone by.  No problem with that.    Now I don’t begrudge anyone exercising their own choices.  I just can’t understand why one choice is always frowned on when it really takes care of itself.  Nobody anywhere is playing irons that they can’t hit for very long.  Human nature won’t allow it.  

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Disagree really.  If a person plays the correct tees they’ll have at least 5 or more wedges in.   If you play par 5s as 3 shotters the. Add 4 more.     Driver and putter is by far the most important.   Followed by whatever your 180-220 yard clubs are.  Far more lost strokes according to strokes gained stats from the long iron yardages that wedges or mid irons.  And here’s the rub there. Most players nowadays have hybrids in those spots. So iron set doesn’t come into play either.  
 

Which is why I said. 99% play blade wedges.   And 100 % play drivers that we alll see on tv either now or in days gone by.  No problem with that.    Now I don’t begrudge anyone exercising their own choices.  I just can’t understand why one choice is always frowned on when it really takes care of itself.  Nobody anywhere is playing irons that they can’t hit for very long.  Human nature won’t allow it.  

 

Blade wedges are played mostly because the "best" (or most popular if you prefer) ones are blades AND, as has been mentioned earlier, forgiveness above 40* (or 35* as someone else said earlier) isn't a whole lot different between a blade and CB.

 

As for irons we'll have to agree to disagree. You play a different game than most, along with a lot of other big hitters on WRX. You may have a number of holes where it's driver/GW (or less) but most of us don't.

 

But as for myself, my driving is consistent enough so that more than 1, maybe 2, per round that directly "costs me", is rare. Same goes with the putter. I'll be a bit hot or a bit cold on any given day but mostly it's around the same.

 

Irons ? When they are ON is when I make my best scores. I "go low", for ME, when the irons are hot as well as the putter. Hit a LOT of greens and make more putts (because there are more closer ones).  

 

So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Blade wedges are played mostly because the "best" (or most popular if you prefer) ones are blades AND, as has been mentioned earlier, forgiveness above 40* (or 35* as someone else said earlier) isn't a whole lot different between a blade and CB.

 

As for irons we'll have to agree to disagree. You play a different game than most, along with a lot of other big hitters on WRX. You may have a number of holes where it's driver/GW (or less) but most of us don't.

 

But as for myself, my driving is consistent enough so that more than 1, maybe 2, per round that directly "costs me", is rare. Same goes with the putter. I'll be a bit hot or a bit cold on any given day but mostly it's around the same.

 

Irons ? When they are ON is when I make my best scores. I "go low", for ME, when the irons are hot as well as the putter. Hit a LOT of greens and make more putts (because there are more closer ones).  

 

So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Yea. I get that too.  Perspective is always valuable.    Notice I’m still dialing  on the non mb irons in my bag.  I enjoy the flight in the long irons.  Just trying to decide if I can gel with the short irons.  I’m inches from pulling a Bernhard Langer ( spelling?) and playing individual mismatched irons .... but my completist brain tells me that’s blasphemy..... I maybe nuts. But I’m mostly open minded.   Sometimes.  

[northernmi]

I ascribed to the idea that more spin (to a degree of course) led to less front to back dispersion (acknowledging that side to side dispersion is more a function of face control and not club engineering).  If you look at some of the test results at Today's Golfer, the most important factor for front to back dispersion is ball speed retention by a wide margin.  There are some irons that have small spin changes on mishits that still demonstrate wide front to back dispersions while others have relatively large spin changes but are much better front to back.  Now that is all drawn from one individual's ballstriking (and he is good and fairly fast) so not sure how translatable that is to other people.

[SPIF]

On 1/5/2021 at 8:22 AM, bladehunter said:

I guess the thought that alwasy comes to mind is why.  ?  Why are the slots 3-pw the only slots in the golf bag that we consider to be handicap dependent ?  Think for a moment.  
 

we all play drivers.  3 woods , wedges , and putters that the best players in the world play.  And then it comes to irons , and for some reason it becomes not about fitment. But about handicap.  Lol.   It’s nuts.  It should be about fitment. Period.  You can play an mb to the 6 iron snd put hybrids on top.  Etc.  if it fits you.  But most never try. They have no clue what fits and what doesn’t. They still rely on others to tell them what t be afraid of. 

 

Blade,

 

I understand what you're hinting at, but I don't really agree.  With all clubs, if you want to shoot the lowest scores possible, it should be about fitment.

 

Take drivers for example.  Callaway and Taylormade offer 3 versions of their driver, right?  How many standard or Max Mavriks are sold to every one Mavrik SZ?  The average pro may be playing a < 9* Sub Zero with a 70gram X-flex super low spin exotic shaft at 44.5", but that is far from what the normal consumer walks out of Golf Galaxy with.  Same goes for the fairway woods.  The consumer just wants the name on their woods to be the same as the pro, but the clubs behave very differently on the same swing.

 

Plenty of ams are playing the highest lofted SGI wedge they can buy.  And even if they're not, a 10% margin of error at the short distances the average guy hits his 56* is far less penalizing than on a 160 yard mid iron shot.  

 

Lastly, putters run the gamut in design on both the tour and your local foursome.  The Spider X does not have the greatest feel off the face, but is the most widely used TM putter out there primarily because it is a higher MOI than an old blade putter and makes it easier to be consistent with.  I would bet it is also the most bought Taylormade putter, while also being the most forgiving.

 

Ultimately, the best players in the world overwhelmingly use non-blade designs with their irons, and they hit the sweet spot far more often than a scratch golfer.  They still benefit from even marginal increases in forgiveness.  The average golfer at your local muni, especially as the irons get longer, would absolutely benefit from more forgiving irons that produce higher trajectory, less punished shots.  That's not really an arguable statement unless you're practicing for the debate team.

 

That said, it's nothing but a game, and if people want to feel like they've got scalpels for their clubs, then live and let live.  I truly believe some golfers are masochistic, which is totally fine.  I know MANY like to pose, and they can do so with the clubs in their bags.  I also think many want to harken back to the golden ages, which means only blades are possible (although the driver/fairway woods are nothing like what was used pre-1990's).  Regardless, that's the great thing about being a consumer, you can purchase what you like!

 

But the argument that your normal 10 handicap will benefit from blades is incredibly laughable.  That's what these threads always devolve to, isn't it?  It's the Dunning-Krueger effect.

[Nard_S]

5 minutes ago, SPIF said:

 

That said, it's nothing but a game, and if people want to feel like they've got scalpels for their clubs, then live and let live.  I truly believe some golfers are masochistic, which is totally fine.  I know MANY like to pose, and they can do so with the clubs in their bags.  I also think many want to harken back to the golden ages, which means only blades are possible (although the driver/fairway woods are nothing like what was used pre-1990's).

For every guy posing with blades there 25 posing with TI drivers & $400 shafts. 50 guys with full setup of Vokeys and 100 with $50 a dozen balls. 200 with what's hot today irons. So there's that to consider.

[bladehunter]

34 minutes ago, SPIF said:

 

Blade,

 

I understand what you're hinting at, but I don't really agree.  With all clubs, if you want to shoot the lowest scores possible, it should be about fitment.

 

Take drivers for example.  Callaway and Taylormade offer 3 versions of their driver, right?  How many standard or Max Mavriks are sold to every one Mavrik SZ?  The average pro may be playing a < 9* Sub Zero with a 70gram X-flex super low spin exotic shaft at 44.5", but that is far from what the normal consumer walks out of Golf Galaxy with.  Same goes for the fairway woods.  The consumer just wants the name on their woods to be the same as the pro, but the clubs behave very differently on the same swing.

 

Plenty of ams are playing the highest lofted SGI wedge they can buy.  And even if they're not, a 10% margin of error at the short distances the average guy hits his 56* is far less penalizing than on a 160 yard mid iron shot.  

 

Lastly, putters run the gamut in design on both the tour and your local foursome.  The Spider X does not have the greatest feel off the face, but is the most widely used TM putter out there primarily because it is a higher MOI than an old blade putter and makes it easier to be consistent with.  I would bet it is also the most bought Taylormade putter, while also being the most forgiving.

 

Ultimately, the best players in the world overwhelmingly use non-blade designs with their irons, and they hit the sweet spot far more often than a scratch golfer.  They still benefit from even marginal increases in forgiveness.  The average golfer at your local muni, especially as the irons get longer, would absolutely benefit from more forgiving irons that produce higher trajectory, less punished shots.  That's not really an arguable statement unless you're practicing for the debate team.

 

That said, it's nothing but a game, and if people want to feel like they've got scalpels for their clubs, then live and let live.  I truly believe some golfers are masochistic, which is totally fine.  I know MANY like to pose, and they can do so with the clubs in their bags.  I also think many want to harken back to the golden ages, which means only blades are possible (although the driver/fairway woods are nothing like what was used pre-1990's).  Regardless, that's the great thing about being a consumer, you can purchase what you like!

 

But the argument that your normal 10 handicap will benefit from blades is incredibly laughable.  That's what these threads always devolve to, isn't it?  It's the Dunning-Krueger effect.

I disagree. I’ve done this search before.   If you go pga and Euro tour you’ll find far more blades from 5 iron down than you think.  It’s a majority, especially how that 75% of ping guys play the blueprint.  
 

 

 

but at any rate.  Fitment for all clubs is what I said.  Yet.  Nobody will dare fit a person into an mb unless that person basically demands it .  

[SPIF]

30 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

For every guy posing with blades there 25 posing with TI drivers & $400 shafts. 50 guys with full setup of Vokeys and 100 with $50 a dozen balls. 200 with what's hot today irons. So there's that to consider.

 

Exactly!

[SPIF]

3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I disagree. I’ve done this search before.   If you go pga and Euro tour you’ll find far more blades from 5 iron down than you think.  It’s a majority, especially how that 75% of ping guys play the blueprint.  
 

 

 

but at any rate.  Fitment for all clubs is what I said.  Yet.  Nobody will dare fit a person into an mb unless that person basically demands it .  

 

Definitely understand that many guys still play blades, and for the best of ball strikers there are some advantages over a players cb or gi club.   But I'm nearly certain that they don't make up the majority of irons on tour.  If you take every blade in every bag, than divide it by the total number of irons, it should be well under 0.50.

 

As far as fitters, especially accomplished ones, not even thinking of putting the average Joe off the street into blades, I feel there is a very real reason for that.  That's because the people that fit golfers into clubs for a living understand that the average player would categorically suffer from blades.  If the numbers (primarily dispersion), are worse for the vast majority, why waste any time with it.  I mean, for those guys it's not about an amorous passion and about how the look of a club feeds your soul, it's about professional opinion and data.

 

It's only us, the crazy golf nuts, who wax poetically about the feel of a properly struck blade ringing the tuning fork deep within our loins.  We tend to become illogical with our purchases, and all of us know it deep down.  I want my fitter to give me hard data, then nod in agreement with my final decision, whatever it is!  

[FatThinShank]

40 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I disagree. I’ve done this search before.   If you go pga and Euro tour you’ll find far more blades from 5 iron down than you think.  It’s a majority, especially how that 75% of ping guys play the blueprint.  
 

 

 

but at any rate.  Fitment for all clubs is what I said.  Yet.  Nobody will dare fit a person into an mb unless that person basically demands it .  

Out of curiosity where did you find the stat that 75% of Ping guys use the blueprint? Just from a little research on the Ping website of players on the PGA tour it seems like there are only 6/20 playing blueprints and 4/16 on the European tour.

Edited January 5, 2021 by FatThinShank

[MtlJeff]

Every time i read a blade vs GI thread i feel like i should be awarded the presidential medal of freedom for managing to play to a 0 using SGIs

[bladehunter]

13 minutes ago, FatThinShank said:

Out of curiosity where did you find the stat that 75% of Ping guys use the blueprint? Just from a little research on the Ping website of players on the PGA tour it seems like there are only 6/20 playing blueprints and 4/16 on the European tour.

Hyperbole of course.
 

The point stands. By your stats 28-30ish percent of ping staffers went mb when given the chance.  And I’d bet the number total is greater as I’m sure ping has more than 36 sets of irons on both tours.  

[bladehunter]

40 minutes ago, SPIF said:

 

Definitely understand that many guys still play blades, and for the best of ball strikers there are some advantages over a players cb or gi club.   But I'm nearly certain that they don't make up the majority of irons on tour.  If you take every blade in every bag, than divide it by the total number of irons, it should be well under 0.50.

 

As far as fitters, especially accomplished ones, not even thinking of putting the average Joe off the street into blades, I feel there is a very real reason for that.  That's because the people that fit golfers into clubs for a living understand that the average player would categorically suffer from blades.  If the numbers (primarily dispersion), are worse for the vast majority, why waste any time with it.  I mean, for those guys it's not about an amorous passion and about how the look of a club feeds your soul, it's about professional opinion and data.

 

It's only us, the crazy golf nuts, who wax poetically about the feel of a properly struck blade ringing the tuning fork deep within our loins.  We tend to become illogical with our purchases, and all of us know it deep down.  I want my fitter to give me hard data, then nod in agreement with my final decision, whatever it is!  

But that simply proves my point about the bias.    We don’t know anything of the sort.  We’ve been conditioned to except it.