PGA Tour implementing lucrative new bonus structure to reward the "needle movers"

[bscinstnct]

15 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

He’s going to get the blame!

 

Holy Moses nailed it and it’s stated in the piece that’s it’s a seemingly a move to preempt the PGL.

 

The players who scored well in the simulation were a combination of top players but also buys with more media impact than wins. Like Rickie. That was for 2019 though.

 

Its a smart move but some may be left out and be mad and prime for PGL recruitement!

 

So...who will be the first star to be like

 

 

[Frankensteins Monster]

10 hours ago, KAndyMan said:

Prime example of ethical fading 

This is wrong on every conceivable level its almost impossible to see it from their point of view. The fact “leaders” of the PGA even allow this is embarrassing. 

 

This is EXACTLY how you alienate your loyal following which drives your annual revenue....

 

I would guess at least 3/4 of the guys on tour have good morals and couldnt actually accept the cash for themselves.  

Whats Tiger going to do with an extra $5-8mil??? I dont know his current net worth but id guess thats like someone making $100k/year getting a $200 bonus.

I don't get it. The PGA Tour is going to "alienate" its "loyal following" because they give some money to players?

[isaacbm]

On 4/22/2021 at 7:35 AM, JaNelson38 said:

 

Nobody forces any golfer to play on the PGA Tour.  Nobody forces anyone to organize a tournament for the PGA Tour.  There are plenty of golf tours out there, plenty of other events sanctioned by other entities, plenty of other avenues to play golf.  There's a reason why players aspire to be on the PGA Tour, why sponsors aspire to put together tournaments that are affiliated with the PGA Tour, and we all know that reason - money.  For all entities involved.  For the Tour.  For its sponsors.  For the host course.  For the players - Sung Kang pocketed north of $15k for finishing last at the RBC Heritage last week.

 

I could honestly care less where the "billions per year" that the PGA Tour supposedly has goes.  "There has never been a truly transparent audit or exposure of the PGA Tour financials"?  So what.  Its none of my business.  Nor yours.  No different that what Augusta National does with the money they collect for The Masters, or what the R&A collects for The Open, or what the European Tour collects for its tour, etc.  The people that seem to be the most 'upset' about this whole situation seem to be journalists who are wanting to write a story or fans who roll out the old tried-and-true "but theyre already millionaires, how much more do they need???" line....but yet when you listen to many of the players who have been asked about this, and the reaction is pretty much the same - indifferent.  I forget the golfer (Billy Horschel?) who said something to the effect of, "Well, if I make more birdies and win more golf tournaments, the rest will take care of itself".  

 

When my tax bill increased nearly $10,000 this year I cared. 
There’s not one good reason why the PGA tour is tax exempt. And IF someone can show me one,  that only proves that their financials should be made public. 
    If they’re tax exempt, it is our business!

Edited April 25, 2021 by isaacbm

[Soloman1]

1 minute ago, JaNelson38 said:

"There has never been a truly transparent audit or exposure of the PGA Tour financials"?  So what.  Its none of my business.  Nor yours.

 

 

Charitable, literary, scientific and entities that contribute to society in ways that the government would otherwise have to perform and fund through taxes are exempt from taxes.

 

Their financials are indeed the business of the taxpaying public.

 

The rest of your comment is rambling and irrelevant to the discussion.

[pinhigh27]

21 minutes ago, JaNelson38 said:

 

Nobody forces any golfer to play on the PGA Tour.  Nobody forces anyone to organize a tournament for the PGA Tour.  There are plenty of golf tours out there, plenty of other events sanctioned by other entities, plenty of other avenues to play golf.  There's a reason why players aspire to be on the PGA Tour, why sponsors aspire to put together tournaments that are affiliated with the PGA Tour, and we all know that reason - money.  For all entities involved.  For the Tour.  For its sponsors.  For the host course.  For the players - Sung Kang pocketed north of $15k for finishing last at the RBC Heritage last week.

 

I could honestly care less where the "billions per year" that the PGA Tour supposedly has goes.  "There has never been a truly transparent audit or exposure of the PGA Tour financials"?  So what.  Its none of my business.  Nor yours.  No different that what Augusta National does with the money they collect for The Masters, or what the R&A collects for The Open, or what the European Tour collects for its tour, etc.  The people that seem to be the most 'upset' about this whole situation seem to be journalists who are wanting to write a story or fans who roll out the old tried-and-true "but theyre already millionaires, how much more do they need???" line....but yet when you listen to many of the players who have been asked about this, and the reaction is pretty much the same - indifferent.  I forget the golfer (Billy Horschel?) who said something to the effect of, "Well, if I make more birdies and win more golf tournaments, the rest will take care of itself".  

 

I don't understand what you're saying. Everyone wants to be on the pga tour to make money. There is literally no other reason. If they started having golf tournaments in australia that paid 5x what the pga tour plays, everyone would go to australia. No one would really care about the US open or masters if they paid 50k to the winner while other pga tour events were worth 1.5 million. 

 

This is completely separate from the non-profit status of the tour and how non-profit corporations (which often are non-profit in name only) skirt the tax system in the US. Non-profit doesn't mean what most people think it does. Lots of non-profit companies care as much or more about their bottom lines and figuring out ways to fudge the numbers via our convoluted tax system than various for-profit companies. 

 

The PGA tour doesn't care at all about charity, it's just a prerequisite for business for them. 

[cxx]

This seems like a disaster waiting to happen. PGA tour players can  talk, but are better in small, limited sound bites about their game. Talking on their own, they are more than likely to get in trouble. In today's environment that would be big trouble.

[CT007]

The metrics is what gets me - I’m fine with players making money for performance, and on PGA tour, they don't get paid a 10 year guaranteed contract no matter if they play/play bad/etc - so good on players, to get their league to pay them $

 

But - How would MVP / Melt-waste-water score the recent LBJ tweet / delete tweet?

 

If that is the plan, to try and get PGA players to be SJW , and make political statements - or if it’s not the official plan, but the consequence of the metrics - then count me out 

 

There is some good in tech social media world - but it is overwhelmed by the nonsense / falsehoods on there (not everyone’s opinion is worth hearing, IMO)

[GolfManCollin]

1 hour ago, CT007 said:

There is some good in tech social media world - but it is overwhelmed by the nonsense / falsehoods on there (not everyone’s opinion is worth hearing, IMO)

So much this. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

If getting clicks and social media popularity means more money, then a guy missing the cut should just do this for some extra coin🤣

 

[bscinstnct]

2 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

 

Charitable, literary, scientific and entities that contribute to society in ways that the government would otherwise have to perform and fund through taxes are exempt from taxes.

 

Their financials are indeed the business of the taxpaying public.

 

The rest of your comment is rambling and irrelevant to the discussion.

 

From what I see, each tournament is run as a charity event. Practically all the money goes to paying the players and running the event. Then the rest goes to the charity.

 

But, there are carryover profits that have amassed to 1billion over the years. Most of it is it the player retirement funds.

 

The individual charities seem happy, most repeat the events. 
 

The reports I see are that the tour has saved paying 200MM in taxes.

 

I say...so?
 

Over all these years that’s like nothing. The government wastes like 50 billion sneezing every 5 minutes. 

 

Meantime, The tour has raised over 3 billion for charity.

 

If the tour was “for profit”, the tour would still get the tv contracts, still hold events, keep all the profit and pay more taxes (90% of which would be wasted on unions, graft, and monorails to nowhere; )

 

But the charities would get nothing. 
 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by bscinstnct

[Oldboy]

19 hours ago, djmohab2 said:

Did the PGA Tour learn nothing from the European Super League debacle?

i'm not sure its the exact same thing but the motivation is .. this is purely born of greed and taking the focus away from the sport aspect of the sport.  I don't know if golf fans can stop this the way global football/soccer fans did the ESL.

[Nels55]

I don't really care much about this but I do wonder about the unintended consequences and what sort of behavior this program might drive:

 

[Soloman1]

10 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

From what I see, each tournament is run as a charity event. Practically all the money goes to paying the players and running the event. Then the rest goes to the charity.

 

But, there are carryover profits that have assessed to 1billion. Most of it is it the player retirement funds.

 

The individual charities seem happy, most repeat the events. 
 

The reports I see are that the tour has saved paying 200MM in taxes.

 

I say...so?
 

Over all these years that’s like nothing. The government wastes like 50 billion sneezing every 5 minutes. 

 

They have raised over 3 billion for charity.

 

If the tour was “for profit”, the tour would still get the tv contracts, still hold events, keep all the profit and pay more taxes.

 

But the charities would get nothing. 
 

 

 

 

Charities would not get nothing. That's not how it works.

 

You should stop paying taxes and just tell the IRS that what you're paying is, "Like nothing. Y'all waste $50 billion sneezing every 5 minutes."

 

Let us know how that goes? 🙂

 

The "they" raising the money are the local tournaments where the sponsors and volunteers raise money for the local charities. The PGA Tour itself is like mob getting the vig - the TV money. It doles out some scraps (7.5%) to make it look like they're angels.

 

You fell hook, line and sinker for the "We give sooo much money..." feel-good marketing con campaign.

[dlygrisse]

I am trying to visualize the difference between CH3 moving the needle and Brooks Koepka moving the needle.  

Since Will Zalatorius is built like a needle does he get bonus points?

Will this prompt the tour to give Paige Spiranac a few exemptions in order to move the needle?  

Will this encourage good behavior or bad behavior? 

 

[DavidCrockett]

12 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

I know a lot of people who either don't watch sports any more or watch way less because of politics.  I probably haven't watched a complete NBA game in 10 years, or a partial one in 3

 

**Not a political post, but rather an observation relating to TV viewership and possible outcomes from the Tour incentivizing non-golf behaviors.**

 

^^ That's why the leagues chose the Year of COVID to get in-your-face political - so that if it backfired on them, they could blame the pandemic (and probably get some financial relief for their losses as well).  It was a built in excuse if it all went wrong.  In a year with a captive audience, viewership should have gone UP...but it didn't.  Figuring out why isn't rocket science.

 

The Tour's viewing audience is likely more sensitive to such things and I think there's a big risk in players pushing things they think are popular (virtue signaling, for example) for the sole purpose of driving the metrics and making that money, but having it result in a net loss of viewership when people are turned off by it.

 

Granted it's N=1, but the second I see any of that crap, I'll turn it off and never turn it on again.  Dunzo.  I grew up playing 5 sports, played a little ball in college, and absolutely love competition, but I do not NEED to watch sports in order to have a fulfilling life.  I have not missed the NFL, NBA, or MLB, and I will not miss golf either.

 

 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

59 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

Charities would not get nothing. That's not how it works.

 

You should stop paying taxes and just tell the IRS that what you're paying is, "Like nothing. Y'all waste $50 billion sneezing every 5 minutes."

 

Let us know how that goes? 🙂

 

The "they" raising the money are the local tournaments where the sponsors and volunteers raise money for the local charities. The PGA Tour itself is like mob getting the vig - the TV money. It doles out some scraps (7.5%) to make it look like they're angels.

 

You fell hook, line and sinker for the "We give sooo much money..." feel-good marketing con campaign.

 

Cmon S1.

 

Youre saying the tour doles out scraps like it’s keepin the other 93%
 

But you know full well that nearly all of the rest goes to the player payouts, tv promotion, and other expenses for running the event.

 

And the bottom line is that the actual charities, many who hold their events for decades, are very happy with the deal. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by bscinstnct

[mattwood]

Unfortunately this is a reflection of what is important in our society these days...how many likes  you get on a post on Facebook or how many followers you have on Instagram or tweet, tweet, tweet on Twitter.  It reeks of shallowness and superficiality and the PGA Tour appears really desperate.  What's to keep a golfer to hire as part of his team a media manager just to pump up his exposure through bot searches and posts?   Pay him a couple of hundred thousand and collect 5 million.  Not a bad payday.

[Soloman1]

 

20 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Cmon S1.

 

Youre saying the tour doles out scraps like it’s keepin the other 97%
 

But you know full well that nearly all of the rest goes to the player payouts, tv promotion, and other expenses for running the event.

 

And the bottom line is that the actual charities, many who hold their events for decades, are very happy with the deal. 

 

 

The title sponsor and local organizations raise the money for the payout and expenses of the tournament. The tour just funnels the money through its accounts.

 

The concessions, corporate boxes, pro-am, etc. go to the local organization of the tournament. The "profit" after expenses goes to local charities minus some reserve.

 

The $190 million going to charities comes from the tournaments, but the tour words its marketing like it's coming out of its pocket.

 

The tour keeps the TV revenue, has a giant investment fund and player pension fund, owns golf properties, etc.

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

From what I see, each tournament is run as a charity event. Practically all the money goes to paying the players and running the event. Then the rest goes to the charity.

 

But, there are carryover profits that have amassed to 1billion over the years. Most of it is it the player retirement funds.

 

The individual charities seem happy, most repeat the events. 
 

The reports I see are that the tour has saved paying 200MM in taxes.

 

I say...so?
 

Over all these years that’s like nothing. The government wastes like 50 billion sneezing every 5 minutes. 

 

Meantime, The tour has raised over 3 billion for charity.

 

If the tour was “for profit”, the tour would still get the tv contracts, still hold events, keep all the profit and pay more taxes (90% of which would be wasted on unions, graft, and monorails to nowhere; )

 

But the charities would get nothing. 
 

 

 

 

 

See the Dilbert comic.  Do so many suits make six-figure salaries in a tax-paying entity?  Perhaps, but perhaps not.  It changes the behavior.

 

I don't disagree about the fact the government wastes money.  Absolutely it does.  That doesn't justify using the not-for taxes shield to allow them(and they aren't the only "charity" guilty of this) to use it to enrich a select few, or build palatial headquarters on prime real estate.  

 

Not to mention, I have to think the status has something to do with the ability to continue to get sponsors at the amounts they have been able to even during the conditions of the last year.

 

They are open to scrutiny, and when one peels back the layers, it doesn't look so hunky dory. 

[Soloman1]

22 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

Do so many suits make six-figure salaries in a tax-paying entity?

 

There are tour admin people making 7 figure salaries.

 

There's a lot of money to be made in non-profits. 🙂

[golfortennis]

7 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

There are tour admin people making 7 figure salaries.

 

There's a lot of money to be made in non-profits. 🙂

 

But think of the good they are doing.  I mean, they are non-profit, ergo, the work they do is for good.

[DFS PFD]

3 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

But think of the good they are doing.  I mean, they are non-profit, ergo, the work they do is for good.

Yes, completely and unequivocally, all work done by every single person at a non-profit is "good". 

 

Research non-profit fraud a bit and you'll find they keep the FBI quite busy with their "good" work. 

[golfortennis]

2 minutes ago, DFS PFD said:

Yes, completely and unequivocally, all work done by every single person at a non-profit is "good". 

 

Research non-profit fraud a bit and you'll find they keep the FBI quite busy with their "good" work. 

 

I didn't think I would need to put the /s there, but I guess I did.

[DFS PFD]

1 minute ago, golfortennis said:

 

I didn't think I would need to put the /s there, but I guess I did.

My bad, it's really hard to tell on this forum lately. Sorry 

[bscinstnct]

40 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

 

 

The title sponsor and local organizations raise the money for the payout and expenses of the tournament. The tour just funnels the money through its accounts.

 

The concessions, corporate boxes, pro-am, etc. go to the local organization of the tournament. The "profit" after expenses goes to local charities minus some reserve.

 

The $190 million going to charities comes from the tournaments, but the tour words its marketing like it's coming out of its pocket.

 

The tour keeps the TV revenue, has a giant investment fund and player pension fund, owns golf properties, etc.

 

The tour also kinda

 

Provides the players!

 

🤣

[golfortennis]

5 minutes ago, DFS PFD said:

My bad, it's really hard to tell on this forum lately. Sorry 

 

No worries, all good.  I agree.  I thought I was being obvious.  I should have gone further to make it clear.

 

 

[bscinstnct]

43 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

 

See the Dilbert comic.  Do so many suits make six-figure salaries in a tax-paying entity?  Perhaps, but perhaps not.  It changes the behavior.

 

I don't disagree about the fact the government wastes money.  Absolutely it does.  That doesn't justify using the not-for taxes shield to allow them(and they aren't the only "charity" guilty of this) to use it to enrich a select few, or build palatial headquarters on prime real estate.  

 

Not to mention, I have to think the status has something to do with the ability to continue to get sponsors at the amounts they have been able to even during the conditions of the last year.

 

They are open to scrutiny, and when one peels back the layers, it doesn't look so hunky dory. 

 

This is how it evolved. I like the system, it’s creative, people get paid and the charities benefit a great deal. 
 

Now, if you think the tour should be for profit, that’s fine but they would just employ a different group of equally as effective accountants and

 

Still pay no taxes ; )

[Soloman1]

So you're saying that there are no real altruistic or charitable bones in their bodies? It's just a marketing facade?

 

"Ooooh, look at us, we're giving back!"

 

Now, Augusta National is a truly altruistic organization. It operates not as a non-profit and is one of the biggest contributors to the local community. You don't have to be a non-profit to be charitable.

 

If you belong to a private golf club, it is likely to be a non-profit. How much is your club giving to local charities?

 

I've opened a whole new can of worms...

 

I'll tell you one thing, if I hear "We're all in this together" one more time I'm gonna scream. Then puke.  🙂

Edited April 22, 2021 by Soloman1

[golfortennis]

21 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

This is how it evolved. I like the system, it’s creative, people get paid and the charities benefit a great deal. 
 

Now, if you think the tour should be for profit, that’s fine but they would just employ a different group of equally as effective accountants and

 

Still pay no taxes ; )

 

Evolved.  Have you read the book Deane Beman: Golf's Driving Force?  You should.  I'll give him credit for taking what was available to him, but I won't agree it should have been allowed to play out that way.  Particularly when one of the pillars of this setup (want to say the pension, but could be wrong), was an insert to an unrelated piece of legislation, with a one-day period to qualify(ie., "we allow all pensions plans formed on June 1, 19xx to have this desgination").  That day happened to coincide with the day the tour did theirs.  

 

If they can rake in the amount of money they do, and still have zero taxes through proper accounting, then more power to them.  BUt frankly that is going to be difficult.    

[bscinstnct]

10 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

So you're saying that there are no real altruistic or charitable bones in their bodies? It's just a marketing facade?

 

"Ooooh, look at us, we're giving back!"

 

Now, Augusta National is a truly altruistic organization. It operates not as a non-profit and is one of the biggest contributors to the local community. You don't have to be a non-profit to be charitable.

 

If you belong to a private golf club, it is likely to be a non-profit. How much is your club giving to local charities?

 

I've opened a whole new can of worms...

 

I'll tell you one thing, if I hear "We're all in this together" one more time I'm gonna scream. Then puke.  🙂

 

Let’s be real

Hunters gotta kill something before it can be shared with the pack. 
 

If not, people all just be eatin cabbages. 
 

Things get messy fightin over fresh carcasses. 

 

Is like the man said,

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/a4b3fadc-3257-49b6-9ecf-cc77fdd84bbc