Do all pros use the bounce when chipping?

[Righty to Lefty]

32 minutes ago, EastTNGolfer said:

No I'm pretty much talking about any wet shot over 40ish yards. Did you read the Seickmann book quote I had? If you have like a 70 or 80 yard wedge shot and you try to use the bounce you're going to be delivering way too much loft and it's going to be a bad horrible shot.

I don't think the actual quote popped up on my computer but at first I was gathering that you were saying to use the bounce? Trying to pick the ball off of wet turf is not a better option than using bounce. Also what would be the problem with using the bounce on a 52 degree wedge...no one ever said that you had to use a lob wedge to hit the shot.  A 52 degree wedge from 70 to 80 yards using a wedge with high bounce is plenty doable and will in no way launch too high...shoot even a 56 degree from 70 yards isn't going to be launching too high.  Yes the initial launch is a factor of the loft of the club but speed is much more of a factor once the ball is in flight and the speed requirement to hit a 52 or 56 degree wedge 50 to 80 yards just isn't that much.    

Edited August 2, 2022 by Righty to Lefty

[EastTNGolfer]

15 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I don't think the actual quote popped up on my computer but at first I was gathering that you were saying to use the bounce? Trying to pick the ball off of wet turf is not a better option than using bounce. Also what would be the problem with using the bounce on a 52 degree wedge...no one ever said that you had to use a lob wedge to hit the shot.  A 52 degree wedge from 70 to 80 yards using a wedge with high bounce is plenty doable and will in no way launch too high...shoot even a 56 degree from 70 yards isn't going to be launching too high.  Yes the initial launch is a factor of the loft of the club but speed is much more of a factor once the ball is in flight and the speed requirement to hit a 52 or 56 degree wedge 50 to 80 yards just isn't that much.    

Yes I'm saying you use the bounce on finesse wedge shots which are roughly 35 to 40 and in. Distance wedge shots which are outside of that range require a slightly delofted club with handle lean.

[golfer07840]

On 7/28/2022 at 8:36 PM, Valtiel said:

As a personal anecdote, since switching over to more "use the bounce" types of techniques I have literally not had a bad chipping day from a strike standpoint and it's purely distance control that has been the difference between the good and bad days, which comes down to me. 

Same experience here. I have both of Monte's Use the Bounce videos and distance control is what gets me and that will come with more repetition. 

 

Very rarely do I think or fat it. 

[DaveGoodrich]

3 hours ago, EastTNGolfer said:

Yes I'm saying you use the bounce on finesse wedge shots which are roughly 35 to 40 and in. Distance wedge shots which are outside of that range require a slightly delofted club with handle lean.

 

That's why, for me, low bounce wedges suck for those "distance wedge" shots.   I have a 60-04 T grind that I don't use for any shots that require much shaft lean, unless I am on a hardpan-like lie.  On normal turf, if I catch it a bit fat, it will dig, resulting in contact high on the face, and come up short.  With a higher bounce wedge, you can lean the shaft, and still have some "bounce to spare" to help prevent digging.   I use a 56-12 D grind when I want to lean the shaft, including the lower, spinny, pitch from 40 - 80 yards, which is a shot I love.   

 

Also, I take issue with earlier comments that you are supposed to hit the ground first when using the "use the bounce" technique.  I don't think that is true.  Perhaps simultaneous contact is ok, but I am always trying to hit the ball first, but with a shallow AOA.  Any interaction with the ground before the ball seems likely to result in poor distance control.  Sure, there are shots out of fluffy rough, etc., where you need to treat it like a bunker.  But I don't think that is a recipe for consistency when used on typical lies.  

 

[Krt22]

8 minutes ago, DaveGoodrich said:

 

 

Also, I take issue with earlier comments that you are supposed to hit the ground first when using the "use the bounce" technique.  I don't think that is true.  Perhaps simultaneous contact is ok, but I am always trying to hit the ball first, but with a shallow AOA.  

 

Agreed, the goal is not to hit it fat on purpose. The bounce is there just so you have some margin of error in case you do. But apparently that is a cop out, it's better to chili-dip one instead

[MK7Golf21]

I've got a 60 degree wedge with low bounce (5 degrees). It is super unforgiving to chip with given the bounce is so low, any forward shaft lean and it will just dig straight down with the ball going no where. Even shots from fairway with shaft lean tend to dig into the ground. I use it for flops and high sand shots. Using the bounce with it being so low you have to be very precise. 

[Zitlow]

Not sure how true it is but I've heard that several pros have some the bounce ground off the heel area on their sand wedges.  

[Pastit]

35 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

I've got a 60 degree wedge with low bounce (5 degrees). It is super unforgiving to chip with given the bounce is so low, any forward shaft lean and it will just dig straight down with the ball going no where. Even shots from fairway with shaft lean tend to dig into the ground. I use it for flops and high sand shots. Using the bounce with it being so low you have to be very precise. 

These are useful on links, one high or medium bounce and one low. Usually the lob wedge is selected as the low partner. Tight fairways and soft sand are the reasons. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Pastit

[naval2006]

The three guys I play often with who are short game wizards have all the shots in the toolbox: bounce, leading edge, Ray Floyd type little chips. And I believe none of them would go past the third post in this thread like we do. 

[Chunkitgood]

If you hit he ball first, how does the bounce help?

[DaveGoodrich]

1 hour ago, Chunkitgood said:

If you hit he ball first, how does the bounce help?

 

Off of most grass lies, if you always hit the ball first, then you don't need bounce.  It's there to provide some forgiveness if you hit it a bit fat (so the club slides across the ground and you are maybe a groove or two high on the face, instead of actually "chunking" it).  As mentioned above, out of sand and off of some fluffy lies, it is desirable to hit the grass/sand first, and the bounce will help keep the club from digging too deep.    

[jholz]

On 7/29/2022 at 6:18 PM, Jim Waldron said:

 

 

I am saying you should question what exactly "using the bounce" means - when I was growing up this was not a "meme".  Everyone knew how to do what I now call classical chipping -there was only one basic way to do it.

 

So let's define it then: a very low trajectory shot with no backspin, that rolls out like a putt. That is the literal traditional definition of a chip shot. It is done with slightly arched wrists, to create a fairly shallow angle of attack so that you do not dig the leading edge. Same with forward shaft lean - you need some to get the leading edge under the bottom half of the ball and to hit it solidly.  But you can have too much which causes leading edge to dig. There is ZERO wrist c0ck, and no release of any slight hinge angle in the back of your trail wrist.

 

I recommend the gap wedge as primary chipping tool, although my students will also chip with 6 iron, 8 iron, sand wedge and lob wedge. On a level green, no wind, running 10 on the Stimp, my gap wedge will fly 50% of the way to the hole and then roll out the other 50%. Might get at most two feet high in the air, often less than that.

 

What most modern tour pros do most of the time is NOT classical chipping even though they will use the term "chip" - it is a hybrid shot that has elements of both  pitching and chipping. It flies higher and further than an actual chip shot, has medium spin, so thus less roll out than an actual chip shot. But that hybrid shot ("Chip-pitch") will always have some setting of wrist angles and thus release of those angles. Which is why it is WAY more difficult a shot to learn and to execute, than old school chipping. 

 

I will say this: I get contacted almost daily by golfers with severe chipping yips, and the primary reason they got the yips in the first place is because what they thought they were attempting  was chipping, but was in fact a chip-pitch. And they had neither the body feel awareness required to learn that chip-pitch shot to a high level of skill, or the overall understanding of the required mechanics. 

 

I teach three ways to execute a chip-pitch: a. slight 1/4 vertical wrist c0ck and release. b. a slight backwards hinging of the trail wrist and then releasing that hinge angle just before impact (which is the one that can indeed work on very tight lies or even concrete IF you are really good at it) and c. a blend of a and b.  

 

The lie will dictate which of those will be the best choice. A is the easiest to learn since it is a micro version of your normal  power swing release in terms of how the wrists unlock. B is a bit harder because so many golfers struggle with flipping the wrists sideways in the short game (and long game too), and this version is very much a controlled tiny micro-flip of the trail wrist, what I call "hinge-unhinge-hold" meaning you start to do the micro-flip when the clubhead is very close to the ball/impact, and then right before the strike happens you stop the flip, meaning the club head is coming into the ground on a moderately steep angle and right before impact, the clubhead moves forwards as the hinge angle releases, which is just enough to slide the leading edge under the bottom half of the ball, and not cause it to dig into the turf.

 

Takes a lot of finesse to learn how to do well.

 

C is the hardest one of all but will work from a variety of lies, especially green side rough.

 

But why on earth would anyone attempt to learn any of those three techniques when there is a far, far simpler technique that will work really well about 75% of the time when your ball is close the green? So I never teach chip-pitching until and unless the student can demonstrate proficiency in standard chipping first.

 

What Rory is demonstrating in the recent video posted in this thread is chip-pitching, not chipping.

 

Thank you Jim! Love your content here. It's benefitted my game a great deal. 

 

Very enlightening. 

[Asics10]

On 7/28/2022 at 10:56 PM, jomatty said:

My wedges are flat but I still find that I have trouble if I have really low hands and try to use the bounce.  Perhaps there is something in my technique that is off.  I always just assumed that a little higher hands were better for shots relying on the bounce.

Find a tight lie. Try swinging with your sand wedge with just your right(trail) hand, (9oclock to 9 o'clock and soft hands)skim accross the grass without digging in, it will sound like a thump. Then put a ball down in the same spot. Hit the ball one handed. Once you're comfortable one handed, put both hands on. 

I could probably chip from a green without taking a divot or doing any damage with this technique. 

[jomatty]

11 minutes ago, Asics10 said:

Find a tight lie. Try swinging with your sand wedge with just your right(trail) hand, (9oclock to 9 o'clock and soft hands)skim accross the grass without digging in, it will sound like a thump. Then put a ball down in the same spot. Hit the ball one handed. Once you're comfortable one handed, put both hands on. 

I could probably chip from a green without taking a divot or doing any damage with this technique. 

I’m comfortable with the basic technique of using the bounce and use that technique fairly often.  I just don’t prefer to have my hands as excessively low as it sounded like Seve and some of you guys do.  Before beginning to use the bounce I carried my hands very low on chips and pitches but after learning how to use the bounce I’ve found carrying my hands a little higher to give me better results. 

[TheDeanAbides]

17 hours ago, Zitlow said:

Not sure how true it is but I've heard that several pros have some the bounce ground off the heel area on their sand wedges.  

This was true, but it’s pretty much unnecessary now with grinds already available with heel relief. 

[Righty to Lefty]

15 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

If you hit he ball first, how does the bounce help?

It doesn't...I keep banging my head on the keyboard that people keep saying that you are supposed to strike short game shots ball first.  YOU DO NOT STRIKE PARTIAL WEDGE SHOTS BALL FIRST....you are supposed to use the bounce with your wedges and engage the turf prior to striking the ball. 

 

Okay how bout the club designer himself explain it: 

 

17 hours ago, Krt22 said:

Agreed, the goal is not to hit it fat on purpose. The bounce is there just so you have some margin of error in case you do. But apparently that is a cop out, it's better to chili-dip one instead

Your assertion is incorrect.  Please see the video above. Bounce on your irons is there as an insurance policy but it is to be intentionally used with your wedges.

[Pastit]

4 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

It doesn't...I keep banging my head on the keyboard that people keep saying that you are supposed to strike short game shots ball first.  YOU DO NOT STRIKE PARTIAL WEDGE SHOTS BALL FIRST....you are supposed to use the bounce with your wedges and engage the turf prior to striking the ball. 

 

Okay how bout the club designer himself explain it: 

 

Your assertion is incorrect.  Please see the video above. Bounce on your irons is there as an insurance policy but it is to be intentionally used with your wedges.

This is really interesting. I hate any reaction between the turf and sole of club as the friction created seems to have a random effect on my run out. But I can see I’m wrong and work is needed, thanks again. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Pastit

[b.mattay]

On 8/2/2022 at 12:38 AM, Righty to Lefty said:

.you are not supposed to hit a partial wedge shot ball first. You are supposed to use the bounce on purpose.  Just like in the bunker you use the bounce until which point you are too far away from the green and are forced to strike ball first and a partial wedge shot using the bounce is no different.   

That point until which you are too far away from the green to use bounce is typically somewhere in the neighbourhood of 60 yards (unless you were to go down to a gap wedge/pitching wedge, which wouldn’t be practical for spin purposes on a lot of scenarios). Go look at pros hitting 60, 70, 80 yard shots-it’s ball first all day. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by b.mattay

[DaveGoodrich]

OK, I am still not accepting the idea that your are supposed to hit the ground first when "using the bounce" around the green.   I recognize I am not an authority, as a mid-single digit guy, but I have a very competent short game and am quite effective with this technique.  While I don't put my focus on making ball-first contact when making these shots, like I do with a full iron, I am definitely not trying to hit the ground before the ball, like I do from a bunker.  I am basically trying to slide the club under the ball with a shallow swing, which does sometimes result in slightly ground-first contact (which the technique forgives), but "ground-first" is never my intent.  I'd say, in reality, I'm intending for the face to strike the ball essentially simultaneously with the sole striking the ground. 

 

I don't remember Monte's videos discussing intentionally hitting the ground first (except in special cases with muddy lies, etc.).  That just seems like a recipe for inconsistent contact.  What do others do?  Do you try to hit the ground first when "using the bounce?"  How far before the ball?   

[Krt22]

35 minutes ago, DaveGoodrich said:

OK, I am still not accepting the idea that your are supposed to hit the ground first when "using the bounce" around the green.   I recognize I am not an authority, as a mid-single digit guy, but I have a very competent short game and am quite effective with this technique.  While I don't put my focus on making ball-first contact when making these shots, like I do with a full iron, I am definitely not trying to hit the ground before the ball, like I do from a bunker.  I am basically trying to slide the club under the ball with a shallow swing, which does sometimes result in slightly ground-first contact (which the technique forgives), but "ground-first" is never my intent.  I'd say, in reality, I'm intending for the face to strike the ball essentially simultaneously with the sole striking the ground. 

 

I don't remember Monte's videos discussing intentionally hitting the ground first (except in special cases with muddy lies, etc.).  That just seems like a recipe for inconsistent contact.  What do others do?  Do you try to hit the ground first when "using the bounce?"  How far before the ball?   

Monte is an accomplished instructor and player. If you have his video and are chipping well with that technique, there is zero reason to change your intent because some guy on the internet with no credentials said so. 

 

 

[glk]

1 hour ago, DaveGoodrich said:

OK, I am still not accepting the idea that your are supposed to hit the ground first when "using the bounce" around the green.   I recognize I am not an authority, as a mid-single digit guy, but I have a very competent short game and am quite effective with this technique.  While I don't put my focus on making ball-first contact when making these shots, like I do with a full iron, I am definitely not trying to hit the ground before the ball, like I do from a bunker.  I am basically trying to slide the club under the ball with a shallow swing, which does sometimes result in slightly ground-first contact (which the technique forgives), but "ground-first" is never my intent.  I'd say, in reality, I'm intending for the face to strike the ball essentially simultaneously with the sole striking the ground. 

 

I don't remember Monte's videos discussing intentionally hitting the ground first (except in special cases with muddy lies, etc.).  That just seems like a recipe for inconsistent contact.  What do others do?  Do you try to hit the ground first when "using the bounce?"  How far before the ball?   

I’m in the same club.  Bounce is there to save me from a really poor result but intentionally hitting behind as a strategy doesn’t work for me cause

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_e2DBcF181/?hl=en

 

and

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_cku-zFmAl/?hl=en

 

what the point of a quality ball and club (that is clean) if you are just going to drag up a bunch of interference

 

 

 

[GolfTurkey]

11 minutes ago, glk said:

I’m in the same club.  Bounce is there to save me from a really poor result but intentionally hitting behind as a strategy doesn’t work for me cause

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_e2DBcF181/?hl=en

 

and

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_cku-zFmAl/?hl=en

 

what the point of a quality ball and club (that is clean) if you are just going to drag up a bunch of interference

 

 

 

 

I would guess that this is the position of the majority of pro's, like Harrington i.e. bounce is there to save you when you get it wrong. Then you have extremes like Spieth who (claims he) never uses the bounce and leans the shaft more than the bounce angle on his wedge, and then you have the other extreme like Seve who allegedly hit the ground first on purpose (didn't see it mentioned in his instructional video, but people who knew him say he did this).

 

It's a bit like I doubt that pro's playing Ping drivers intentionally hit it all over the face to "use the MOI". I'm sure they appreciate the MOI when they mishit one, but I can't imagine them doing it on purpose.

Edited August 4, 2022 by GolfTurkey

[Andygolderson]

I personally don't believe you should always use the bounce, as it's situationally dependant.

 

I find that using the bounce will always give a higher lofted shot, with more speed, which can generate more spin. I believe this is most useful from within 60 yards from a decent lie.

You would not want to use the bounce in the rough for example, or where you're slightly tee'd up on the grass, then you're just getting right under it.

If you want to hit a full approach shot within 100 yards, you're likely also going to want to hit down on the ball to conenct it well and get good spin and contact on it to stop well. You'll likely come up 20 yards short if you're trying to use the bounce.

 

Similarly in a bunker, i've got a mixed feeling, depending on the firmness of the sand you're playing out from. You will see everyone teaching to use the bounce from the sand, but results will vary depending on course conditions.

Depending on your low point control, there is a risk you blade the ball with the leading edge if you're bouncing too early. So where i read earlier that you can hit a few inches behind the ball and get away with it, then i disagree. The way people try to activate the bounce by throwing the club down into the ground will likely not work well in a soft bunker.

I find higher bounce clubs under soft conditions just get sucked up and it's better to pick them off with the leading edge.

 

The grind also dictates how the bounce will "activate" depending on the condition you're playing on. wide sole, narrow sole, toe relief, heel relief, they're all going to influence the bounce and how and when you're going to use it.

 

You're angle of attack is also going to determine the bounce you need, in combination with the course conditions you play and the lie you have. You're probably not going to have a good time when you're taking a low bounce wedge to a wet soggy course on a rainy day.

You're probably also not going to collect 9 different wedges to accomodate 3 various grinds in each of your 3 or 4 wedges.

[Righty to Lefty]

7 hours ago, DaveGoodrich said:

OK, I am still not accepting the idea that your are supposed to hit the ground first when "using the bounce" around the green.   I recognize I am not an authority, as a mid-single digit guy, but I have a very competent short game and am quite effective with this technique.  While I don't put my focus on making ball-first contact when making these shots, like I do with a full iron, I am definitely not trying to hit the ground before the ball, like I do from a bunker.  I am basically trying to slide the club under the ball with a shallow swing, which does sometimes result in slightly ground-first contact (which the technique forgives), but "ground-first" is never my intent.  I'd say, in reality, I'm intending for the face to strike the ball essentially simultaneously with the sole striking the ground. 

 

I don't remember Monte's videos discussing intentionally hitting the ground first (except in special cases with muddy lies, etc.).  That just seems like a recipe for inconsistent contact.  What do others do?  Do you try to hit the ground first when "using the bounce?"  How far before the ball?   

 

7 hours ago, Krt22 said:

Monte is an accomplished instructor and player. If you have his video and are chipping well with that technique, there is zero reason to change your intent because some guy on the internet with no credentials said so. 

 

 

@Krt22 So when I post a video from the guys who design wedges and have the utmost "credentials"  explaining their proper use, you then disagree with that also?  Do you really think that I would come onto the largest golf forum on the planet and make up stuff especially when you can easily go and cross check the information on the internet?  You never said that the information I posted was wrong, you pretty much said that isn't the way you play golf, which is fine, but I won't allow for you to try and act like my posts are null because others have been giving lessons for longer. The purpose of this forum is to put information out there and then go and test to find out how you can play your best golf. 

 

Just because you or Jordan Speith chose to use the club a different way than it was designed doesn't make you or him correct.  Had you said that you understand it is a less efficient method but that is the way that you are most comfortable, I would be completely onboard, but you choosing to discount the fact of how the club was designed to be used I can't ride with. A lot of pros don't even know what equipment they are even playing. How many times have you watched and interview and the pro doesn't even know what shaft they play in a given club until they look at the label while doing the what's in the bag.  They just know it feels good...so what makes you believe that they are so "credentialed" to give advice on equipment? Why because they know how they play golf....that doesn't mean they know how golf is played like the engineer does that designs the clubs. Trying to create a pecking order in a discussion forum is silly because you are disregarding that someone could be providing a different perspective that will be an aha moment for someone else.  If we are all saying the same thing and no one is thinking outside the box then what is the point of this forum even existing?  

[Short Bucket]

On 7/28/2022 at 9:25 PM, jomatty said:

The fact that it is called the “bounce” confused me for so long.  I just couldn’t visualize what Inwas trying to accomplish.  If they called it the “slide” or the “skid” I think more people would grasp the concept quicker.

I've always thought of it as a skid plate and that helps me visualize what I'm trying to achieve.

[Krt22]

7 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

 

@Krt22 So when I post a video from the guys who design wedges and have the utmost "credentials"  explaining their proper use, you then disagree with that also?   

There is a disconnect between what they are actually saying , how you are interpreting it, and how you are translating that to intent. 

 

You have taken Cleveland's intent of "I aim to hit it 1/2" behind the ball" to mean "you must hit it fat". That is not the case, that is just his intent to prevent the opposite from occurring. The main point is the technique itself, where the shaft is mostly vertical, shallow strike, and the bounce is exposed for margin vs leaning it forward and exposing the leading edge. The whole point of this technique is to get a similar outcome even if your low point is variable.

 

You CAN hit behind the ball, you don't HAVE to hit behind the ball to utilize the technique. Your stance basically is if you clip it clean you are doing it wrong, which isn't the case.  There is also a difference between brushing the turf behind the ball and actually bottoming out behind the ball.

 

There is nothing in the Vokey video about low point intent 

 

And neither video mentions anything about using the bounce and hitting it fat out to 60 yards with partial wedges, Cleveland only mentions not wanting to take a divot inside 30yrds.

[Righty to Lefty]

12 hours ago, Krt22 said:

There is a disconnect between what they are actually saying , how you are interpreting it, and how you are translating that to intent. 

 

You have taken Cleveland's intent of "I aim to hit it 1/2" behind the ball" to mean "you must hit it fat". That is not the case, that is just his intent to prevent the opposite from occurring. The main point is the technique itself, where the shaft is mostly vertical, shallow strike, and the bounce is exposed for margin vs leaning it forward and exposing the leading edge. The whole point of this technique is to get a similar outcome even if your low point is variable.

 

You CAN hit behind the ball, you don't HAVE to hit behind the ball to utilize the technique. Your stance basically is if you clip it clean you are doing it wrong, which isn't the case.  There is also a difference between brushing the turf behind the ball and actually bottoming out behind the ball.

 

There is nothing in the Vokey video about low point intent 

 

And neither video mentions anything about using the bounce and hitting it fat out to 60 yards with partial wedges, Cleveland only mentions not wanting to take a divot inside 30yrds.

You aren't fully comprehending the information that is being provided by the "credentialed" engineers as the answers are within their statements and the demonstrations of how to use their equipment designs most effectively that you are once again disregarding because it doesn't fit what you want to be true.  You simply cannot "thump the trailing edge against the ground" unless you engage the turf prior to the ball because the leading edge is in front of the trailing edge and if your low point is in front of the ball you would skull it because the leading edge would strike the ball above the equator of the ball before the trailing edge got to the ground.  Even if your low point was directly underneath the ball, you would still skull it because for the trailing edge to hit the ground directly below the ball the leading would hit the ball above the equator prior to. Plenty of speed is maintained by engaging the turf prior to the ball with the bounce engaged as your intent is to strike 1/2 inch to an inch prior to the ball thus how much can the club actually decelerate within a half inch if it skids along the surface of the turf...very little. This a very different scenario should the leading edge strikes the turf that same 1/2 inch to one inch prior to the ball because the club will immediately dig and begin to abruptly decelerate the club. 

 

In the Vokey video where the blogger stated that thumping the turf with the trailing edge was a revelation/ did it look like they were brushing the turf?  That is because they weren't, they were engaging the bounce and firmly engaging the turf prior to the ball trusting that the design of the club would do it's job and slide the club into impact and produce a desired result.  Yes you CAN strike the ball first but why would your reduce your margin for error and make it harder to hit a given shot when the club is specifically designed to help you? You don't have to tee up  your driver, but you should...why because it is the best way to use the club as it was designed. The fact is if you are using the leading edge and trying to strike the ball first then you can't use the bounce because it isn't engaged or used at that point so you aren't being helped by the design of the club because the leading edge will dig and at that point the bounce can't save you so you must strike the shot perfectly or pay the price.

 

Lastly if you shouldn't take a divot at 30 yards, then how big a divot should you really be taking at 60 yards?  Surely not a footlong divot...on a partial wedge shot you can't engage the bounce of the club unless you are over clubbed on that given shot so if you only hit a 60 degree wedge 60 yards max then you can't engage the bounce on that club, but you could on a 56 or a 52 degree wedge which would require much less speed to execute and you could/should engage the bounce to hit the shot so you shouldn't be taking some massive divot even if you are flighting the shot down.  

 

Matter of fact this is a video of me hitting a 60 yard wedge shot with the bounce engaged using a 55 degree wedge and it simply doesn't require much speed because this is a club that I hit 120 yards yet this shot hit the green and stuck on the second bounce even though I engaged the turf prior to striking the ball: 

 

If I was on here stating that with your irons, hybrids, fairway woods, and full wedge shots that you shouldn't strike them ball first because that's how I personally play them, I would be roasted in this forum because even though that's how I chose to play them, it is widely known that isn't the way the club was designed to be used most effectively thus you are free to play the shots how you want to, but you should acknowledge that it is your choice not to use the club in the most effective way that it was designed.   

[EastTNGolfer]

14 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

You aren't fully comprehending the information that is being provided by the "credentialed" engineers as the answers are within their statements and the demonstrations of how to use their equipment designs most effectively that you are once again disregarding because it doesn't fit what you want to be true.  You simply cannot "thump the trailing edge against the ground" unless you engage the turf prior to the ball because the leading edge is in front of the trailing edge and if your low point is in front of the ball you would skull it because the leading edge would strike the ball above the equator of the ball before the trailing edge got to the ground.  Even if your low point was directly underneath the ball, you would still skull it because for the trailing edge to hit the ground directly below the ball the leading would hit the ball above the equator prior to. Plenty of speed is maintained by engaging the turf prior to the ball with the bounce engaged as your intent is to strike 1/2 inch to an inch prior to the ball thus how much can the club actually decelerate within a half inch if it skids along the surface of the turf...very little. This a very different scenario should the leading edge strikes the turf that same 1/2 inch to one inch prior to the ball because the club will immediately dig and begin to abruptly decelerate the club. 

 

In the Vokey video where the blogger stated that thumping the turf with the trailing edge was a revelation/ did it look like they were brushing the turf?  That is because they weren't, they were engaging the bounce and firmly engaging the turf prior to the ball trusting that the design of the club would do it's job and slide the club into impact and produce a desired result.  Yes you CAN strike the ball first but why would your reduce your margin for error and make it harder to hit a given shot when the club is specifically designed to help you? You don't have to tee up  your driver, but you should...why because it is the best way to use the club as it was designed. The fact is if you are using the leading edge and trying to strike the ball first then you can't use the bounce because it isn't engaged or used at that point so you aren't being helped by the design of the club because the leading edge will dig and at that point the bounce can't save you so you must strike the shot perfectly or pay the price.

 

Lastly if you shouldn't take a divot at 30 yards, then how big a divot should you really be taking at 60 yards?  Surely not a footlong divot...on a partial wedge shot you can't engage the bounce of the club unless you are over clubbed on that given shot so if you only hit a 60 degree wedge 60 yards max then you can't engage the bounce on that club, but you could on a 56 or a 52 degree wedge which would require much less speed to execute and you could/should engage the bounce to hit the shot so you shouldn't be taking some massive divot even if you are flighting the shot down.  

 

Matter of fact this is a video of me hitting a 60 yard wedge shot with the bounce engaged using a 55 degree wedge and it simply doesn't require much speed because this is a club that I hit 120 yards yet this shot hit the green and stuck on the second bounce even though I engaged the turf prior to striking the ball: 

 

If I was on here stating that with your irons, hybrids, fairway woods, and full wedge shots that you shouldn't strike them ball first because that's how I personally play them, I would be roasted in this forum because even though that's how I chose to play them, it is widely known that isn't the way the club was designed to be used most effectively thus you are free to play the shots how you want to, but you should acknowledge that it is your choice not to use the club in the most effective way that it was designed.   

Seikmann actually has a pretty popular drill where you put a penny a couple inches in front of the ball on finesse chips and you hit that penny because that's the actual low point in front of the ball, you're just using a shallow angle of attack. your low point is not behind the ball and you're not intentionally trying to hit it fat.

[Barfolomew]

Its just strange to play a shot....... in case you hit it fat.... in case you make an error

 

100% agree if you have issues catchin it clean then play the bounce as much as you can if it helps... everyone plays at different levels and different skills at golf

 

But for players that have good hands and keep their chippin skills polished up, then dont plan on missin the shot and hit the shot needed..... just like every other shot we make.

 

You think its simple for a bomber to smash a drive down a tight fairway..... no its a right of passage that they have earned through missin a ton first but can now play that shot 

 

Chippin is way easier then many shots we play.  🐈

 

Chippin is not a Cop Out for those it helps... Its a Cop Out for you lazy folks with good hands that dont wanna practice lol 🦃

[EastTNGolfer]

1 hour ago, birdieball said:

 

Nice to see this attempt to clarify Righty to Lefty

 

 

Let's see your personal video demonstration like RtL did...

New account with one post. Totally not another righty to letfty account. It's all legit guys.