LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[bekgolf]

28 minutes ago, AmazinBlue said:

Notice, of all the top players that have gone to LIV, almost everyone has been a Masters winner. Being able to play in the Masters and assuming they make the cut or play well, they will earn exemptions into the other majors. Its the easiest path for these guys to keep their major status.  I understand the huge dollar draw, but all the things Rahm said about history of the game, chasing records and " 48- player fields with no cut isn't real golf to me" goes out the window.  How much is enough?  If the PGA Tour fails down the road because of this, I blame Phil.  His intense greed to cover his failed investments and gambling debts started all this.

 

The Masters could choose to not invite some past winners.  They can invite whoever they want and not invite past winners if they so choose.

[BirdieBob]

I see from the foregoing posts that LIV GOLF just got alot LOUDER!!

[Simpsonia]

1 minute ago, bekgolf said:

 

The Masters could choose to not invite some past winners.  They can invite whoever they want and not invite past winners if they so choose.

 

I mean 2024 will be the biggest test yet, we'll see if they invite Angel Cabrera now that he's out of prison. 

[bekgolf]

1 minute ago, BirdieBob said:

I see from the foregoing posts that LIV GOLF just got alot LOUDER!!

 

Do they have a sponsorship deal with an American golf equipment manufacturer?

[js707]

As someone who is a fan of the pga tour and has no interest in LIV due to the product itself, let me share a different perspective that I haven’t seen yet.

 

Obviously Rahm will be missed to a certain extent, but the way I see it is that with professional golf, it’s basically impossible to be in contention every week. The PGA tour is so deep with talent that almost all tournaments are still going to be fun to watch. The weeks when Rahm wasn’t in contention were still plenty of great, entertaining tournaments. It’s why I haven’t missed the other big names that have left also.

 

Majors of course are a different story and having all the top players compete is a must.

 

Im still excited to watch all the young up and coming talent in the PGA like Sahith, Cam Young, Akshay Bhatia, Aberg, etc. 

[asKaasa]

Sad day for golf. Disappointing that words mean so little. Rahm should learn a thing or two from Hovland about money.

 

Curious to how the entire ownership and collaboration between the tours will turn out in the future.

[Louis_Posture]

Any player who wants to take the Saudi money should do so and join the LIV Tour.

The PGA Tour will be comprised of whichever players want to remain, plus any new players who qualify thru the Korn Ferry Tour and, or Q-school.  

The PGA Tour should not try to change just because the Saudis are buying golfers. There are plenty of great players available to play the PGA Tour.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Louis_Posture

[CDM]

11 hours ago, drbonesvt said:

500m and have the honor of going head to head with Pat Perez  , win / win

 

 

On a brighter side the PGAT still has Cantlay.....  🤣

Edited December 8, 2023 by CDM

[iNeedMoreGolf]

The pga should have tooken this more seriously off the get go. They were too cocky and forgot money talks which they could have done a better job spreading around in the first place. Now they are very wobbly and might be knocked out by 2025 if more talent defects. So crazy. Bad job at the top levels. Tiger should be extremly pissed imo. Imagine working so hard to basically own the pga tour and you almost threw it away yourself but the pga is now really throwing it away. So all the greats on this tour are just going to go down as a once was? Imagine nfl or mlb or nba going through this too.

[Jay28]

41 minutes ago, AmazinBlue said:

Notice, of all the top players that have gone to LIV, almost everyone has been a Masters winner. Being able to play in the Masters and assuming they make the cut or play well, they will earn exemptions into the other majors. Its the easiest path for these guys to keep their major status.  I understand the huge dollar draw, but all the things Rahm said about history of the game, chasing records and " 48- player fields with no cut isn't real golf to me" goes out the window.  How much is enough?  If the PGA Tour fails down the road because of this, I blame Phil.  His intense greed to cover his failed investments and gambling debts started all this.

 

I suspect LIV will evolve into bigger fields and cuts - and potentially even major / minor tours with promotion and relegation.

Rahm did say he made up his mind after a discussion on the plans going forward.

 

I think golf as a whole is going to go through a fairly massive change. I mean, crikey, we're an era where you tube golfers are pulling bigger audiences that some events and events get boosted because a you tube golfer is playing in it.  

 

[Konklifer]

Admit from the jump they sold their soul for money and accept it. This 'growing the game' b.s. that each one of them spew has become so transparent, it's as if it's in contract. 

 

And also, none of them did it for their families. They did it for themselves. They just happen to have families. If they were single, they would have taken the money. If they were divorced, they would have taken the money. If they had taken lifelong vow of celibacy, they would have taken the money. 

 

Rahm deserves being labeled a hypocrite who did it for the money, because that's who he is.

 

Fact, not opinion.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Konklifer

[Dave230]

6 minutes ago, Jay28 said:

 

I don't get what principles McElroy has particularly - he abandoned the European tour for the money and prestige of the US tour.

Sure he got his deal to remain a full member - but he plays few events.  He actually got special treatment whilst making the US his home tour.

 

To me I see LIV as just another tour attracting players with more money - just as the US tour did.

The international / global element of the LIV tour make it more so.

 

With the players on the LIV tour now and no doubt more to follow - it's fast becoming the main tour.

 

 

He didn't abandon it, he plays some events in it every year, he just won the Race to Dubai. America has the largest golf market and the three major championships there, everyone at the top of golf is going to play there while that is the case. Monty missed out on majors probably because he wasn't adapted enough to American style courses and greens.

 

LIV is a US tour as well, it has seven American events. Rory's principles were that he didn't think Saudi money was good - the result is Saudis barged in and bought everything anyway, that he thought the PGA Tour was the best tour to get all the best players together in meaningful competition - it still is - you might be cynical about America but the Canadian Open goes back to 1904 and Los Angeles Open/Riviera goes back to 1928. You qualify for these events by earning the right through your good play. It has a prestige and history that LIV doesn't.

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

19 minutes ago, BirdieBob said:

I see from the foregoing posts that LIV GOLF just got alot LOUDER!!

No. Just more obnoxious.

[CDM]

17 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

The Masters could choose to not invite some past winners.  They can invite whoever they want and not invite past winners if they so choose.

 

@bekgolf bro really??   Yes you are right they could ban them going foward but they will need to put an  * next to every winner hence. 

 

That whole notIon 100% defeats the whole reason Bobby started the Masters.

 

Edit:  I know you meant certain players only which we all know you meant anyone who plays on the LIV tour.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by CDM

[AmazinBlue]

Micahel Breed brought up an interesting question this morning. What if LIV (the Saudi's) buy some important tournaments from the PGA Tour instead of just players.  They have an unlimited amount of money. If they bought the ATT at Pebble Beach or the API? If they offered 150M and flipped it to LIV? Then the Tour is in real trouble.

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

12 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

On a brighter side the PGAT sitll has Cantlay.....  🤣

Cantlay would bring great value to the tour if he and his caddie started a few more fights!!

[Dave230]

8 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

@bekgolf bro really??   Yes you are right they could ban them going foward but they will need to put an  * next to every winner hence. 

 

That whole notIon 100% defeats the whole reason Bobby started the Masters.

 

Edit:  I know you meant certain players only which we all know you meant anyone who plays on the LIV tour.

 

 

They have to make a call though on a certain unsavoury individual from Argentina though this year that has nothing to do with LIV.

[cgasucks]

2 hours ago, aus10KC said:

I still don't understand these trades. Rangegoats traded away 4 wins from last year. 

 

 

 

You actually track the trades from LIV???!   I bet most of us don't even know the names of the teams.  When I think of team golf, I think of the President's/Ryder/Walker and Solheim Cups.

Edited December 8, 2023 by cgasucks

[kasting333]

20 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

The Masters could choose to not invite some past winners.  They can invite whoever they want and not invite past winners if they so choose.

If Augusta was going to uninvite the past champs on LIV they would’ve done it already at the last masters.

[bekgolf]

8 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

@bekgolf bro really??   Yes you are right they could ban them going foward but they will need to put an  * next to every winner hence. 

 

That whole notIon 100% defeats the whole reason Bobby started the Masters.

 

Edit:  I know you meant certain players only which we all know you meant anyone who plays on the LIV tour.

 

 

 

I can choose not to watch it.  I barely made it through last year.  Maybe this is the year I don't watch majors. 

[aus10KC]

3 minutes ago, cgasucks said:

You actually track the trades from LIV???!   I bet most of us don't even know the names of the teams.  When I think of team golf, I think of the President's/Ryder/Walker and Solheim Cups.

 

It shows up in Twitter feed "for you". I don't actually follow anything LIV but it's fun to see what kind of stupid stuff they are up to. 

 

Like a team trading away 4 wins from last year. If it's a team competition then the goal should be winning. We all know it's a shame competition I'm just passive aggressive about pointing it out.

[jplroper]

 Adios jon rahm , don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.  People come and go thats just how it is, apparently he would rather be the employee of some rather dubious characters than a competitor.  

[CDM]

This thread is awesome 🤣

 

The best part of this thread, 100%...is that fact that as of this post there is 352 pages of PGAT supporters / LIV hater comments...! Day one saying LIV will die, never make it past year 1, NO top players will go.......... AND HERE WE ARE....!  *rumors of more to go ............

 

/please lord please pleaese do not let it be Cantlay, the PGAT needs him to save the tour 🤣

 

What is crazy is how so many fan boys of the PGAT can make the comments about LIV and yet can not stomach the fact to admit that Jay M and team completely collapsed the commercial business of the PGAT.....!   

 

What do you think the PGAT sponsors are now thinking?    

 

This is what near 3 years now when LIV first tried to talk with the PGAT?  LIV goes forward 2 years ago bascially and what did the PGAT do? NOTHING....!   Honestly if your a PGAT supporter, ask yourself what did the PGAT do right in all this?   

 

Liv format does have issues for sure, but the talent they have is there.  So we can all hate on LIV, can cry about it all day long but the dominoes are falling......!!  

 

**Side note to moderators, thank you for lifting the post ban. Some of the post from both sides are hilarious....!

Edited December 8, 2023 by CDM

[Garydean]

Good thing he didn't sign for the money 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, AmazinBlue said:

Phil didn't really start this, that is true. Greg Norman has been trying to torpedo the PGA Tour for 20 years.  His ego is limitless and his desire to see the Tour fail is never-ending.  I'll admit I'm an old school guy, I liked things the way they were. I get that there was a lot of money the players weren't getting from TV right etc, but the division in professional golf now is not pretty.

Closer to 30 years ago for Greg…not 20.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/golf/news/history-repeating-itself-30-years-later-greg-norman-still-challenging-most-powerful-men-golf

[cgasucks]

17 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

It shows up in Twitter feed "for you". I don't actually follow anything LIV but it's fun to see what kind of stupid stuff they are up to. 

 

Like a team trading away 4 wins from last year. If it's a team competition then the goal should be winning. We all know it's a shame competition I'm just passive aggressive about pointing it out.

 

Well you seem to follow LIV a lot more than I do.  As a confession and as a guilty pleasure, I sorta enjoyed LIVE rounds when it was on Youtube.  I don't like watching it on CW as it is harder for find an affiliate that even carries it.

[Sparty4202]

3 hours ago, jd3032 said:

kind of like being a project manager at Target, you leave for Walmart.

now you want to keep your 'status' earned at Target after your move.

You want to go to xmas parties, participate in profit sharing, retain your corporate access card, etc.

 

I’m sorry but I have to disagree with your logic. There is a huge difference between a Target employee and a PGA Tour player. First off the PGA Tour player is not an employee of the Tour, he is an independent contractor. 
secondly the PGA Tour does not own and operate any of the Major Championships. Including the PGA Championship, it is owned by the PGA of America which is not part of the PGA Tour. In 1968 a group of Tour professionals broke away from the PGA of America to form the PGA Tour, that group was headed by Palmer and Nicklaus.

So the Majors have their own criteria for inclusion. The LIV players are not asking to go back to the holiday party (as the majors are not PGA Tour property) nor are the asking to stay in any of the PGA Tour profit sharing or corporate access cards. 
IMO the LIV players should have the same access to the majors as any other Professional Tour player. 
As a professional athlete you never know how long your body will last so you always need to look out for your families best interest in the long run, it’s what any solid businessman would do….so good for Jon Rahm and his family.  
 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Sparty4202

[Jay28]

39 minutes ago, Dave230 said:

He didn't abandon it, he plays some events in it every year, he just won the Race to Dubai. America has the largest golf market and the three major championships there, everyone at the top of golf is going to play there while that is the case. Monty missed out on majors probably because he wasn't adapted enough to American style courses and greens.

 

LIV is a US tour as well, it has seven American events. Rory's principles were that he didn't think Saudi money was good - the result is Saudis barged in and bought everything anyway, that he thought the PGA Tour was the best tour to get all the best players together in meaningful competition - it still is - you might be cynical about America but the Canadian Open goes back to 1904 and Los Angeles Open/Riviera goes back to 1928. You qualify for these events by earning the right through your good play. It has a prestige and history that LIV doesn't.

 

He plays 3 events per year and had to negotiate to keep his membership with the European Tour.

He left to make more money on the US tour.

Again - I don't see any difference with another player leaving the US Tour to make more money on the LIV tour.

 

[Louis_Posture]

21 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

 

What is crazy is how so many fan boys of the PGAT can make the comments about LIV and yet can not stomach the fact to admit that Jay M and team completely collapsed the commercial business of the PGAT.....!   

 

 

 

What could Monahan (or anybody else) done to prevent PGA Tour players from taking Saudi money and joining the LIV Tour ?

[js707]

Just now, Louis_Posture said:

 

What could Monahan (or anybody else) done to prevent PGA Tour players from taking Saudi money and joining the LIV Tour ?

Nothing. Impossible to compete with the resources of the PIF, especially when their economics are not tied to the realities of the market.