LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[CBarns92]

8 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

Expecting pro golfers to grow the game is dumb. Pro Golf can expose people to the game but it can’t keep people in the game. The 2 main reasons people stop playing golf is because it takes too long and it’s too expensive. 

Getting people to stay in the game is half of it.. the other half is getting new people involved, and one way that can be done is by exposure to the game in a new way, new areas, or some combination of the two. 

[grm24]

16 minutes ago, CBarns92 said:

Getting people to stay in the game is half of it.. the other half is getting new people involved, and one way that can be done is by exposure to the game in a new way, new areas, or some combination of the two. 

Like having a garden variety stroke play event of 54 holes and claiming it's some new ground breaking "team" concept all the while the winning "team" earns less money than the individual winner?

[the bishop]

15 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

The next words spoken were "you gotta purdy mouth!"

[dashanks]

Never a LIV fan, but when you think about how quickly success can come and go in this game, can you blame any of those guys for grabbing that golden ring?

[CBarns92]

4 hours ago, grm24 said:

Like having a garden variety stroke play event of 54 holes and claiming it's some new ground breaking "team" concept all the while the winning "team" earns less money than the individual winner?

You may not enjoy it but you can’t honestly deny that they are attracting a much younger audience and taking top players to new markets. I didn’t say anything about team aspects, you just assumed that’s what I meant because it was the clearest route to a rebuttal. Good talk. 

[fixyurdivot]

It is somewhat odd why Norman & Co. settled on the 54 hole format. They had to know the OWGR points issue was going to be an issue.  I've watched and followed lots of Champions Tour events over the past 20 years and don't find those events any less entertaining than 72 hole events.  In some ways, a one day cut is more challenging.  I think it provides a better balance of play and rest for the field.  When you throw in the pro/am which many events have, that's a lot of wear and tear.  I've not heard many LIV players talk about it specifically but suspect having more time off for personal life was a factor in the decision to leave the PGAT.

[jls667]

1 hour ago, CBarns92 said:

You may not enjoy it but you can’t honestly deny that they are attracting a much younger audience and taking top players to new markets. I didn’t say anything about team aspects, you just assumed that’s what I meant because it was the clearest route to a rebuttal. Good talk. 

 

I'd argue that they're not attracting a younger audience because they're attracting almost no audience all together. If Wrx didn't exist, LIV would probably not be most of our radars.

 

Forums give people an outlet to anonymously argue, plant their flags, and then lean into their opinions causing us to get either pro-LIV or pro-PGA colored glasses. Almost everyone's judgement is clouded.

 

But if you only take objective measurements into account (i.e. TV ratings), LIV is attracting little to no one...let alone creating a younger audience. So removing us golf nuts here on these forums, the population as a whole couldn't give a rats-a about LIV. 

 

LIV can start saying they're attracting a younger audience after they first actually attract a consistent TV audience. 

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, CBarns92 said:

You may not enjoy it but you can’t honestly deny that they are attracting a much younger audience and taking top players to new markets. 

Fixed. 😅

[bscinstnct]

3 hours ago, CBarns92 said:

You may not enjoy it but you can’t honestly deny that they are attracting a much younger audience and taking top players to new markets. I didn’t say anything about team aspects, you just assumed that’s what I meant because it was the clearest route to a rebuttal. Good talk. 

 

Let’s see how this shapes up this year

 

That big spike is when LIV first was announced and took BK DJ etc in 2022

 

But interest just keeps falling lower and lower each year

 

Will signing Rahm get interest on the upswing? We will see

 

For comparison, that’s an overlay of “Tiger Woods” as a search term in Google trends compared to LIV golf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3 by bscinstnct

[ahenderX]

2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

It is somewhat odd why Norman & Co. settled on the 54 hole format. They had to know the OWGR points issue was going to be an issue.  I've watched and followed lots of Champions Tour events over the past 20 years and don't find those events any less entertaining than 72 hole events.  In some ways, a one day cut is more challenging.  I think it provides a better balance of play and rest for the field.  When you throw in the pro/am which many events have, that's a lot of wear and tear.  I've not heard many LIV players talk about it specifically but suspect having more time off for personal life was a factor in the decision to leave the PGAT.

In the initial wave of players joining LIV, the primary reason stated was more personal time with family. Whether that is true is another discussion.

Edited February 3 by ahenderX

[cdnglf]

3 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

It is somewhat odd why Norman & Co. settled on the 54 hole format. They had to know the OWGR points issue was going to be an issue.  I've watched and followed lots of Champions Tour events over the past 20 years and don't find those events any less entertaining than 72 hole events.  In some ways, a one day cut is more challenging.  I think it provides a better balance of play and rest for the field.  When you throw in the pro/am which many events have, that's a lot of wear and tear.  I've not heard many LIV players talk about it specifically but suspect having more time off for personal life was a factor in the decision to leave the PGAT.

 

According to the OWGR board, 54 holes is not an issue.

The problem is that Uncle Greg's Young Champions is a closed shop.

 

[stinger_gc]

3 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

It is somewhat odd why Norman & Co. settled on the 54 hole format. They had to know the OWGR points issue was going to be an issue.  I've watched and followed lots of Champions Tour events over the past 20 years and don't find those events any less entertaining than 72 hole events.  In some ways, a one day cut is more challenging.  I think it provides a better balance of play and rest for the field.  When you throw in the pro/am which many events have, that's a lot of wear and tear.  I've not heard many LIV players talk about it specifically but suspect having more time off for personal life was a factor in the decision to leave the PGAT.

That’s what drives me absolutely crazy about LIV. Norman could’ve gotten in touch with Dawson in 2021 to verify whether or not the format would be eligible for ranking points and adjust accordingly 

[dcmidnight]

16 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

That’s what drives me absolutely crazy about LIV. Norman could’ve gotten in touch with Dawson in 2021 to verify whether or not the format would be eligible for ranking points and adjust accordingly 

 

He also could have recognized that the closed-shop nature was a non starter but he was too stubborn for his own good. He wants LIV guys to be able to play anywhere they want, whenever they want. But he also wants to keep LIV as a private club, invitation only.

[woahnelly]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Let’s see how this shapes up this year

 

That big spike is when LIV first was announced and took BK DJ etc in 2022

 

But interest just keeps falling lower and lower each year

 

Will signing Rahm get interest on the upswing? We will see

 

For comparison, that’s an overlay of “Tiger Woods” as a search term in Google trends compared to LIV golf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comparing TW to LIV? That seems rather unfair. That's like comparing Michelle Yeoh to my mother in law. 

Edited February 3 by woahnelly

[woahnelly]

22 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

That’s what drives me absolutely crazy about LIV. Norman could’ve gotten in touch with Dawson in 2021 to verify whether or not the format would be eligible for ranking points and adjust accordingly 

 

Norman has the charm of a used car salesman.

[bekgolf]

4 hours ago, CBarns92 said:

You may not enjoy it but you can’t honestly deny that they are attracting a much younger audience and taking top players to new markets. I didn’t say anything about team aspects, you just assumed that’s what I meant because it was the clearest route to a rebuttal. Good talk. 

 

By all measurements they don't have much of an audience.  But lets go with your narrative of a younger audience.  Why would they (potential sponsors) want a younger audience? 

[grm24]

4 hours ago, CBarns92 said:

You may not enjoy it but you can’t honestly deny that they are attracting a much younger audience and taking top players to new markets. I didn’t say anything about team aspects, you just assumed that’s what I meant because it was the clearest route to a rebuttal. Good talk. 

How can you say who they are attracting when they refuse to release their ratings and report no demographic breakdown of whatever tiny audience they have.

[jimecherry]

5 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

By all measurements they don't have much of an audience.  But lets go with your narrative of a younger audience.  Why would they (potential sponsors) want a younger audience? 

depends on the sponsor i'm sure charles schwab doesnt want the same audience as Monster energy

[stinger_gc]

26 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

 

He also could have recognized that the closed-shop nature was a non starter but he was too stubborn for his own good. He wants LIV guys to be able to play anywhere they want, whenever they want. But he also wants to keep LIV as a private club, invitation only.

If the PIF gave Golfwrx members the money/same budget they gave Norman/Co and 3 months to put together a tour I can guarantee we could put out a better product. 

[cdnglf]

7 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

If the PIF gave Golfwrx members the money/same budget they gave Norman/Co and 3 months to put together a tour I can guarantee we could put out a better product. 

 

Blades vs cavities would be a distinct upgrade to the team format.

[bscinstnct]

11 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

If the PIF gave Golfwrx members the money/same budget they gave Norman/Co and 3 months to put together a tour I can guarantee we could put out a better product. 

 

100% we could because 

 

We’d never have hired Norman! 🤣

 

Ergo, we would reach out to Tiger and Rory, maybe BK too, and invite them to St Martin and hammer out a deal in 2 days!

 

Tiger ain’t gonna return GNs calls lol

 

Norman instantly taints the entire thing. 
 

Plus obviously we’d have no mumble rap or Pat Perez.

 

By now, the WRX Tour would be the premier global standard in the game yo!

 

 

Edited February 3 by bscinstnct

[NV825]

5 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

100% we could because 

 

We’d never have hired Norman! 🤣

 

Ergo, we would reach out to Tiger and Rory, maybe BK too, and invite them to St Martin and hammer out a deal in 2 days!

 

Tiger ain’t gonna return GNs calls lol

 

Norman instantly taints the entire thing. 
 

Plus obviously we’d have no mumble rap or Pat Perez.

 

By now, the WRX Tour would be the premier global standard in the game yo!

 

 

 

WRX Tour Rule #1: One-stroke penalty for any drive under 300 yards.

 

[ThinkingPlus]

1 hour ago, stinger_gc said:

That’s what drives me absolutely crazy about LIV. Norman could’ve gotten in touch with Dawson in 2021 to verify whether or not the format would be eligible for ranking points and adjust accordingly 

Arrogance is a difficult affliction to overcome. By it's very nature, the necessary self acknowledgement and act of seeking help are virtually impossible. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I'd say we should include a WRX 4-cap in every event...

 

...but that wouldn't be fair to the pros. They'd get too demoralized. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

In the ball rollback thread I looked something up and found it interesting... 

 

In the modern distance era (post-2003), the PGA Tour has had 9 rounds of 59 or better. With ~40 events per year, large fields, and 72-hole tournaments. That's about 0.5 rounds per year. 

 

LIV has already had a 58 and a 59, with fewer events, smaller fields, and only 54-hole events. 

 

Are they just setting up these courses to promote low scores so they have something to talk about?

 

(I mean, it's not helping Phil... He's +4 at the moment...)

[notsohard]

19 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

AK, John Daly, Robert Allenby, and Lee Trevino team!

 

Ratings bonanza 📺 

Paige as well?

[Titleist99]

3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Let’s see how this shapes up this year

 

That big spike is when LIV first was announced and took BK DJ etc in 2022

 

But interest just keeps falling lower and lower each year

 

Will signing Rahm get interest on the upswing? We will see

 

For comparison, that’s an overlay of “Tiger Woods” as a search term in Google trends compared to LIV golf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I concur 100%. This will be a pivotal year for LIV Golf, especially after signing the world #3 for over $1/2B and #16 for over $50M (according to sources).

 

If this move doesn't get the eyeballs and a paying Media deal nothing will. IMO

[tatertot]

3 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

In the ball rollback thread I looked something up and found it interesting... 

 

In the modern distance era (post-2003), the PGA Tour has had 9 rounds of 59 or better. With ~40 events per year, large fields, and 72-hole tournaments. That's about 0.5 rounds per year. 

 

LIV has already had a 58 and a 59, with fewer events, smaller fields, and only 54-hole events. 

 

Are they just setting up these courses to promote low scores so they have something to talk about?

 

(I mean, it's not helping Phil... He's +4 at the moment...)

You answered your own question.

[Jc0]

3 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

I concur 100%. This will be a pivotal year for LIV Golf, especially after signing the world #3 for over $1/2B and #16 for over $50M (according to sources).

 

If this move doesn't get the eyeballs and a paying Media deal nothing will. IMO

 

Even if they picked up eyeballs I feel like the sky high prices would already make sponsors hesitant. PGA Tour is already having issues keeping it's current sponsors in the chase to keep it's purses competitive with LIV. In order for a sponsor to invest they need to see a return on investment. LIV's pitch to sponsors almost feels like your friends buddy asking for an investment and saying "trust me bud". That could work in smaller setup as big companies do have money so they can just try things, but the amount I have to imagen LIV is asking millions and no established company is going to do that. 

[CBarns92]

8 hours ago, jls667 said:

 

I'd argue that they're not attracting a younger audience because they're attracting almost no audience all together. If Wrx didn't exist, LIV would probably not be most of our radars.

 

Forums give people an outlet to anonymously argue, plant their flags, and then lean into their opinions causing us to get either pro-LIV or pro-PGA colored glasses. Almost everyone's judgement is clouded.

 

But if you only take objective measurements into account (i.e. TV ratings), LIV is attracting little to no one...let alone creating a younger audience. So removing us golf nuts here on these forums, the population as a whole couldn't give a rats-a about LIV. 

 

LIV can start saying they're attracting a younger audience after they first actually attract a consistent TV audience. 

I don’t think it all has to be immediate. Look at Australia. They were massively popular there and a part of the reason is that in the past a lot of top pros visited there and generated interest in the game that didn’t exist before.

 

LIV now capitalizes on that. The game grew in Australia. They can repeat that same formula in other places now. Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.