LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[HackerDave]

On 3/1/2024 at 11:22 AM, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

You can keep saying that over and over but the data says otherwise. Wrx is just a small segment of golfers hating and ignoring LIV. Most significantly there's a much larger segment of nonWRX golfers ignoring LIV altogether. 

I dare say there are more people online laughing at LIV than total viewership worldwide.   It's a crappy product and throwing money at more golfers isn't going to change that.   I honestly hope Rahm is miserable and forced to play with Anthony Kim and Wolf for the rest of his career.  

[italianstallion]

8 hours ago, pgapromex said:

Maybe you should ask actual tour pros if they think LIV is the worst thing ever.  Guys on LIV getting megabucks forces PGA tour to raise purses, signature events, SSG bonus checks coming soon.  Golf pros have never had it so good.

 

LIV isn't going to fold, a merger will unfold sometime this year.  For some reason that will give some people the sadz.

 

PS. Golf interest has been going downward for many years, the yoy data people spouting on here is meaningless.

 

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/major-golf-ratings-historical-masters-us-open-british-pga-championship-tiger-woods/

 

 

 

Yes, the pros are getting paid, we know. But if you re-read @idrive’s post, he’s talking about the fans. And as @ashortgame just pointed out, viewership is down for pro golf across the board. No fans means no marketability, no marketability means no cash, no cash means no purses or contracts. Once again, LIV and anyone who supports it fails to see the long game. But yes, let’s applaud the damage done because this generation of pros got paid. 

[idrive]

8 hours ago, pgapromex said:

Maybe you should ask actual tour pros if they think LIV is the worst thing ever.  Guys on LIV getting megabucks forces PGA tour to raise purses, signature events, SSG bonus checks coming soon.  Golf pros have never had it so good.

 

LIV isn't going to fold, a merger will unfold sometime this year.  For some reason that will give some people the sadz.

 

PS. Golf interest has been going downward for many years, the yoy data people spouting on here is meaningless.

 

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/major-golf-ratings-historical-masters-us-open-british-pga-championship-tiger-woods/

 

 

 

Like I said -  "the general golfing public that actually watches golf is sick and freaking tired of the whole liv- PGAT fiasco."  

 

The chart you've provided proves one thing. Ratings go up and down. Also seems 2022 and 23 have been conveniently left off.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

13 hours ago, idrive said:

 

What it's "telling" is the general golfing public that actually watches golf is sick and freaking tired of the whole liv- PGAT fiasco. 

 

liv has done more damage to professional golf that any other single anything that has ever taken place.

 

The divide will never heal.  It's us vs them and the divide will only continue to worsen. Until/if liv folds.

 

"Growing the game"  Please, how about ruining the game.

 

All unfortunately very true.

[geauxt]

I’m stuck watching highlights for the future. Just can’t get into the broadcast at all. The leaderboard is my biggest gripe. I understand what they want to do but it just doesn’t work for me, for golf. 

[freeze16172002]

23 hours ago, ashortgame said:

Yes sadly this thread has turned into a negativity fest. I occasionally venture here to see if anything has changed. Pound for pound this week's LIV is a really solid field while the Cognizant Classic has but a sprinkling of quality players. It look more like a KF field.

I still dislike the shotgun start format which I think is quite unfair and the commentary is awful but there is no denying the quality of the LIV field.

The negativity seems to be the usual posters who probably are using 8 years old Game Improvement clubs and are so out of touch with the modern game  they cant see night from day.

I think its more used to boost their post count thinking in some deluded way it gives them credibility. There are posters in here who have upwards of 3,000 posts! I wonder if they actually play golf? 

Shame really. 

Doesnt LIV have the same players in every event? Like the Ice capades. Funny how you think Liv is built for the golfer and not the party. Liv is traveling party with guys playing golf. Obviously you judge someones game by their clubs and shirt, perfect fit for LIV. Beware of the golfer with 8 year old clubs. Thanks for proving PGAT fans judge by ability and quality, LIV not so much. If you miss a LIV event dont worry they repeat the same event 13 times a year

[freeze16172002]

On 3/1/2024 at 2:47 PM, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Big picture the data doesn't support your claim. 

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/pga-tour-2023-season-us-tv-viewers-audience-ratings-nbc-cbs-golf-channel/?zephr_sso_ott=AabUmU

 

The web traffic info on the liv and pgat sites are easily accessible. LIV's interest is still small and showing little growth. This is not good for a young, heavily funded entity especially after spending $500M to sign Rahm.

 

There's fractional interest in LIV outside the USA which has to be a disappointment for a organization looking for global recognition and acceptance. LIV literally sees 6% the web traffic as the pgat. Pgat web traffic has increased in the past 6 months wheresas liv is down slightly. Who knows but maybe AK will give them a pop. But is it sustained? My bet is no. 

 

Woo me with data to say otherwise. 

 

 

 

 

Because LIV has made a show with the same script that repeats 13 times a year. If you miss a LIV event so what they will repeat it over and over. Todays event is exactly like any other one. 

[pgapromex]

Nieman is on fire,  got the right game for Masters.

[Holy Moses]

Seems a bit…high

[leezer99]

22 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

Why do the Majesticks have 3 captains 😂. Clearly not working, too many cooks in the kitchen 

 

Sorry your Stingers gave up the ghost today. Epic comeback by the Crushers. 

[stinger_gc]

5 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

Sorry your Stingers gave up the ghost today. Epic comeback by the Crushers. 

Playing 13-16 in +5 collectively is a killer. We’ll be back

[ahenderX]

6 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Seems a bit…high

Caffeine TV has some big backers, including Rupert Murdoch.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

6 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Seems a bit…high

That doesn't surprise me. AK is the biggest thing to happen to LIV. Will it be sustained? We shall see but I'd bet No. 

[Shilgy]

On 2/27/2024 at 1:33 PM, jjtour said:

Gooch saying Gooch things

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/39609515/talor-gooch-questions-validity-masters-victory-snub

 

I actually laughed out loud at the part he says about an asterisk besides a Masters victory cuz "some" of the best players in the world arent in the field. Would that also apply to Brooks' PGA victory last year since Mr. Gooch and others were not in the field? Tell Brooksy you're putting an asterisk on his win Talor, I dare ya.

Gooch did play…well the first two rounds anyways.  76-74 MC. 

[Shilgy]

On 3/2/2024 at 7:04 AM, ashortgame said:

Yes sadly this thread has turned into a negativity fest. I occasionally venture here to see if anything has changed. Pound for pound this week's LIV is a really solid field while the Cognizant Classic has but a sprinkling of quality players. It look more like a KF field.

I still dislike the shotgun start format which I think is quite unfair and the commentary is awful but there is no denying the quality of the LIV field.

The negativity seems to be the usual posters who probably are using 8 years old Game Improvement clubs and are so out of touch with the modern game  they cant see night from day.

I think its more used to boost their post count thinking in some deluded way it gives them credibility. There are posters in here who have upwards of 3,000 posts! I wonder if they actually play golf? 

Shame really. 

The shame here is some thinking the LIV exhibition has a “pound for pound solid field” based on name recognition.  Yes, they have a handful of top notch quality players.  Rahm…Niemann….Koepka in particular.  Most of the rest of the field is “used to be stars” that would be off the exempt list on tour today and a few that would be on Champions tour.

 

This weeks event you think is KF quality has #’s 9 23 26 27 31 36 37 42 46 52 57 in the OWGR( rough scan and missed some I’m sure and stopped there).

 

So yes,with LIV you get their best every event.  The one benefit of a 14 event tour if that’s all that matters to you.  
 

Problem is some have this delusional belief that only the top 10 or so are great players and in reality fields are much deeper than many give them credit for.

[pingbling23]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

The shame here is some thinking the LIV exhibition has a “pound for pound solid field” based on name recognition.  Yes, they have a handful of top notch quality players.  Rahm…Niemann….Koepka in particular.  Most of the rest of the field is “used to be stars” that would be off the exempt list on tour today and a few that would be on Champions tour.

 

This weeks event you think is KF quality has #’s 9 23 26 27 31 36 37 42 46 52 57 in the OWGR( rough scan and missed some I’m sure and stopped there).

 

So yes,with LIV you get their best every event.  The one benefit of a 14 event tour if that’s all that matters to you.  
 

Problem is some have this delusional belief that only the top 10 or so are great players and in reality fields are much deeper than many give them credit for.

interesting.  youre just touting the big name players for your argument but ignoring all of the lesser knowns that were top 100 in the owgr when they came to LIV.

[stinger_gc]

I’ve seen enough positives this week! I think the squad gets it done in Hong Kong next week. Don’t let today’s collapse distract from the fact that Stinger GC is 4th in the team standings despite a 12th (!) place finish. I predict a 16 shot win next week in the team event supplanting Tiger’s win at pebble as the greatest performance in golf history 

[Cactus Jack]

6 hours ago, Shilgy said:

The shame here is some thinking the LIV exhibition has a “pound for pound solid field” based on name recognition.  Yes, they have a handful of top notch quality players.  Rahm…Niemann….Koepka in particular.  Most of the rest of the field is “used to be stars” that would be off the exempt list on tour today and a few that would be on Champions tour.

 

This weeks event you think is KF quality has #’s 9 23 26 27 31 36 37 42 46 52 57 in the OWGR( rough scan and missed some I’m sure and stopped there).

 

So yes,with LIV you get their best every event.  The one benefit of a 14 event tour if that’s all that matters to you.  
 

Problem is some have this delusional belief that only the top 10 or so are great players and in reality fields are much deeper than many give them credit for.

The problem is PGAT fans are passionate about the tour, legacy, history, and not the players. As demonstrated countless times within this thread the moment a player chooses to join LIV nobody cares. In fact, the most common response is good riddance, won’t be missed, glad they’re gone. The PGAT fields might be amazing, but in reality who’s playing is simply irrelevant. I’d argue LIV is the exact opposite. They seem to try very hard to make the players and teams the stars, which might be the exact reason they haven’t gained traction with mainstream fans. 

[dcmidnight]

8 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

The problem is PGAT fans are passionate about the tour, legacy, history, and not the players. As demonstrated countless times within this thread the moment a player chooses to join LIV nobody cares. In fact, the most common response is good riddance, won’t be missed, glad they’re gone. The PGAT fields might be amazing, but in reality who’s playing is simply irrelevant. I’d argue LIV is the exact opposite. They seem to try very hard to make the players and teams the stars, which might be the exact reason they haven’t gained traction with mainstream fans. 

 

I think most PGAT fans still like good stories. And tension on the weekends. Or a combination of the two. Theres...nothing...in an event where everyone has already gotten tens or hundreds of millions up front. What "story" is there in that? One hundred millionaire playing against another hundred millionaire. Not a good story. And Fehrety inventing tension on the fly to get me interested in the team thing - doesnt work for me.

 

LIV fans want to keep trolling Bud Cauley or Jake Knapp or whatever - I dont care, go on rooting for guys who are literally playing for nothing. Do I miss seeing DJ every week? Of course I did at first...but I got over it. I'm way more interested in a guy with a mullet who was a nightclub bouncer to support himself. 

Edited March 4 by dcmidnight

[smashdn]

59 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

 

I think most PGAT fans still like good stories. And tension on the weekends. Or a combination of the two. Theres...nothing...in an event where everyone has already gotten tens or hundreds of millions up front. What "story" is there in that? One hundred millionaire playing against another hundred millionaire. Not a good story. And Fehrety inventing tension on the fly to get me interested in the team thing - doesnt work for me.

 

LIV fans want to keep trolling Bud Cauley or Jake Knapp or whatever - I dont care, go on rooting for guys who are literally playing for nothing. Do I miss seeing DJ every week? Of course I did at first...but I got over it. I'm way more interested in a guy with a mullet who was a nightclub bouncer to support himself. 

 

I'd argue there are/were plenty of times on the PGAT when it was a millionaire battling another millionaire down the final few holes for a win, and one would pocket around 1m for the win and the other 750k or so for second (or more depending upon the event).

 

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/2023-memorial-tournament-purse-prize-money-payouts-winners-share-for-golfers-from-20-million-pool/#:~:text=However%2C as has been standard,all collecting more than %24500%2C000.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/prize-money-payouts-pga-tour-000438271.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMZ1PSA3oNnEfvZNeaofzJAywxSV4xXi--75HDHCp3_bKQGUZNhZz28mkreZuEpPWL-YKEKTWLLdxr5OY9OXOspvsk3WttMlGEAJxaXqEbLKTSUsEe759Sc0Uy5J6dFu7jDHxgFELAN5sDoYv9uzvdN1u1wNIhWAtvc1h6c9ooBB

 

Actually, looks like my initial estimates were wrong.  Even a "non signature event" is closer to 2m and 1m for first and second.

 

I am not going to bother to look up PGAT or LIV players net worths.  Someone else can if they are inclined but I would be willing to bet there are plenty who are wroth plenty on both tours, without ever having to pick up a club again.

 

 

[ahenderX]

9 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

The problem is PGAT fans are passionate about the tour, legacy, history, and not the players. As demonstrated countless times within this thread the moment a player chooses to join LIV nobody cares. In fact, the most common response is good riddance, won’t be missed, glad they’re gone. The PGAT fields might be amazing, but in reality who’s playing is simply irrelevant. I’d argue LIV is the exact opposite. They seem to try very hard to make the players and teams the stars, which might be the exact reason they haven’t gained traction with mainstream fans. 

If LIV teams were actually created via a draft, it would make a whole lot more sense. Right now there are teams which will never win the team portion. LIV from the get go has been shooting from the hip making questionable decisions.

[Rapidcat]

11 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

I’ve seen enough positives this week! I think the squad gets it done in Hong Kong next week. Don’t let today’s collapse distract from the fact that Stinger GC is 4th in the team standings despite a 12th (!) place finish. I predict a 16 shot win next week in the team event supplanting Tiger’s win at pebble as the greatest performance in golf history 

 

As an Aussie, I'm a little jealous of how you Saffers have got Stinger GC going. Great team spirit and all 4 players contributing.

 

My Rippers have been carrying Leishman and Jones (better this event) for some time. Lucas Herbert is a decent addition. If things don't improve I expect a couple of changes for next season. It's not the Aussie way to sit back and take second best in sport.

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, dcmidnight said:

 

I think most PGAT fans still like good stories. And tension on the weekends. Or a combination of the two. Theres...nothing...in an event where everyone has already gotten tens or hundreds of millions up front. What "story" is there in that? One hundred millionaire playing against another hundred millionaire. Not a good story. And Fehrety inventing tension on the fly to get me interested in the team thing - doesnt work for me.

 

LIV fans want to keep trolling Bud Cauley or Jake Knapp or whatever - I dont care, go on rooting for guys who are literally playing for nothing. Do I miss seeing DJ every week? Of course I did at first...but I got over it. I'm way more interested in a guy with a mullet who was a nightclub bouncer to support himself. 

The love for a good story is a universal appeal across professional sports, of which LIV has plenty. For example, Bryson’s 58, Neiman vs Sergio pitch black playoff, Anthony Kim’s return etc. What LIV is missing is 50 years of historical context, which frankly is a weak criticism of a start up league. 
 

Also, the guaranteed money is a poor argument too. 99% of major professional  have guaranteed salaries and compete at a level few humans can comprehend. Brady, Jordan, you name it are ruthless competitors because that’s how they are wired. Yes, there’s 1% who mail it in after cashing in on a big contract, but that is exceptionally rare. More than anything that’s a character/priorities thing. Blanket statements like LIV guys play for nothing is simply false. Niemann is a perfect example of what it means to play for the love of the game. 
 

 

[jjtour]

1 hour ago, dcmidnight said:

 

I think most PGAT fans still like good stories. And tension on the weekends. Or a combination of the two. Theres...nothing...in an event where everyone has already gotten tens or hundreds of millions up front. What "story" is there in that? One hundred millionaire playing against another hundred millionaire. Not a good story. And Fehrety inventing tension on the fly to get me interested in the team thing - doesnt work for me.

 

LIV fans want to keep trolling Bud Cauley or Jake Knapp or whatever - I dont care, go on rooting for guys who are literally playing for nothing. Do I miss seeing DJ every week? Of course I did at first...but I got over it. I'm way more interested in a guy with a mullet who was a nightclub bouncer to support himself. 

100% agree with the story lines. Cognizant this week ends up having a first time winner in Eckroat, some other guys chasing that havent been there in a while (Lowry), recent successes (Knapp, Van Rooyen), Rory still in the mix doing Rory things, an always tough setup in PGA National, etc. You dont need a signature event to make it interesting. The story of LIV this year has been Niemann's play, other than that it's AK coming back. LIV is trying but still behind IMO on storylines. 

[Shilgy]

14 hours ago, pingbling23 said:

interesting.  youre just touting the big name players for your argument but ignoring all of the lesser knowns that were top 100 in the owgr when they came to LIV.

Yes they were in the top 100.  In a bit over two years of LIV have you seen anything at all to suggest the likes of Poulter, Westwood, McDowell,  Bubba and company would be in the top 100 today?  Are any of them going to compete with guys like Eckroat on a weekly basis?  And he was 101 in the rankings before this week.

[Rapidcat]

2 hours ago, jjtour said:

The story of LIV this year has been Niemann's play, other than that it's AK coming back. LIV is trying but still behind IMO on storylines. 

 

Rahm is the biggest LIV story.

[stinger_gc]

3 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

 

As an Aussie, I'm a little jealous of how you Saffers have got Stinger GC going. Great team spirit and all 4 players contributing.

 

My Rippers have been carrying Leishman and Jones (better this event) for some time. Lucas Herbert is a decent addition. If things don't improve I expect a couple of changes for next season. It's not the Aussie way to sit back and take second best in sport.

Rippers should’ve made a move for Minwoo Lee. Absolute stud of the tee and quickly becoming one of my favorite players on tour

[Titleist99]

On 3/2/2024 at 5:48 PM, HackerDave said:

I dare say there are more people online laughing at LIV than total viewership worldwide.   It's a crappy product and throwing money at more golfers isn't going to change that.   I honestly hope Rahm is miserable and forced to play with Anthony Kim and Wolf for the rest of his career.  

LOL!......100%. The reality of the situation is that the PGAT is coming off one of the most successful seasons in recent memory 2023. The Saudis failing league signed a player for over 1/2 billion dollars with minimum effect. 

 

That's the state of golf at the present. 72 hole stroke play vs 54 hole team play.

 

The choice is crystal clear. 🙂

[pingbling23]

4 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Yes they were in the top 100.  In a bit over two years of LIV have you seen anything at all to suggest the likes of Poulter, Westwood, McDowell,  Bubba and company would be in the top 100 today?  Are any of them going to compete with guys like Eckroat on a weekly basis?  And he was 101 in the rankings before this week.

No and I wasn’t expecting them to win when they were playing on the pga tour right before they signed with LIV.  Can’t criticize one tour and not the other.  Both have filler.

[Dicka]

5 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

 

As an Aussie, I'm a little jealous of how you Saffers have got Stinger GC going. Great team spirit and all 4 players contributing.

 

My Rippers have been carrying Leishman and Jones (better this event) for some time. Lucas Herbert is a decent addition. If things don't improve I expect a couple of changes for next season. It's not the Aussie way to sit back and take second best in sport.

 

Cam Smith seems to have dropped off big time. He looks so out of shape now compared to when he was at the top of his game...has a major roof over the toolshed.