LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[CDM]

5 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

It’s $3 billion lifetime, not $6 billion from local tournaments.

 

Did you know that the PGA Tour, including all local tournament charities, account for only 0.5% of all charity money raised through golf events yearly in the US?

 

99.5% of golf-related charity money is raised by amateurs participating in local scrambles and other tournaments.

 

but it is golf and everything golf has to tie to the PGAT somehow....  🤪

[Hawkeye77]

5 hours ago, cardia10 said:

Based on Forbes article about the tour, salaries and non profit status. He has repeatedly not been honest with players according to them. The tour still touts Snead like he holds all of these records but he played in the time pre tour and played almost a different game. The tour is the one that still holds onto him as seen in their own record books. I spoke to multiple players at the Open in St Andrews and they said they don't trust tour leadership and believes they have been dishonest about purses increasing suddenly after LIV. For anyone to suggest the current leadership has done anything to increase purses has never talked to a PGA player. They all admit purses would have increased, but Tiger drove the sponsorship money and purses to what they are today. A drunk gorilla could have sat at the top and not messed that up.

 

The whole argument for and against LIV is pretty clear cut. Most of the over 45 crowd is against it because music, fun, alternate formats and most of the under 45 crowd loves it because, music, fun and alternate formats. The game is stale and there are only so many ways it can revived. On the course there isn't much that can be changed but around and off the course there can be change. It is very much the Not In My Back Yard argument. Hard to also argue sponsorship as both the PGA and LPGA utilizes those same sources.

 

Not going to argue, but it is not serious thinking to suggest all that has gone into running an entity like the PGA Tour could be done by just anyone, lol.

 

The point was they know how much he makes and honestly doubt they begrudge him his salary as you claimed and of course you don't address that.  The rest, again, not going to argue but the LIV "argument" isn't even close to the clear cut "age" argument you assert, not much in that at all, but so much of what it really is has been discussed over and over, easy to find and understand, but since much is beyond the scope of what we are now supposed to be talking about, I'm not touching it.

[RobS]

24 minutes ago, mitchl said:

 

The difference will be in the timing.  The suspension from the Scottish Open was not long before the suit was filed.   The PGA suspensions came first, and yet, these players waited until 8 days before the playoff to file suit.   

 

It will be interesting to see if “emergency” relief is granted when the emergency is by the players delaying to file suit until now.   Plus, the PGA tour knew this or something like this was coming and have been prepping for the response since they issued the suspension.   So their ability to file a good response to this emergency request is probably much greater than DPWT had given the amount of time.

I'd speculate that the timing of the suit was intended in part to keep LIV in the news and a cloud over the PGAT's head while LIV takes a month off until their next event. 

 

LIV, by their own account is up and running and doing outstanding.  The players are making more money on LIV than they had been on the PGAT.  That might make it a challenge to prove injury due to illegal activity unless LIV folds soon and the players are left with nowhere to play and earn money.  

[Frankensteins Monster]

Seeing who is now the media mouthpiece for the Liv Exhibition Golf Outings, they all deserve each other. Birds of a feather…

[SheriffBooth]

17 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

This wins for today.  Too funny.  A+

[bladehunter]

Davis love interview just now on golf Chanel was 100 % correct in my view. And he ended it with the nicest way of saying what he said to Greg I’ve maybe ever heard.  
 

 

his recollection of Greg trying this in 94 and the meeting in Arnold’s office , seemed like a really accurate take from a first hand witness. 

[Krt22]

11 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

To: Phil Mickelson

From: The Desk of Greg Norman

RE: Performance Improvement Plan

 

Areas of Concern:

Failure to even approach Par in any event to date

 

Improvement Goals and Activities:

Keeping drives on planet earth

 

Expected Results:

To whom much is given, much is expected. Contend or Else.

 

Timeline for Improvement

Next freaking tournament. Your the face of the league. Get off the Fanduel app and make a damn putt

 

Consequences

1st failure: Teach a short game class to MBS and extended family for at least 3 scheduled birthday parties. There will be an area set up for you next to the Ariana Grande concert

2nd failure: 50% of your signing bonus must be returned

3rd failure: For legal reasons we can't write down the consequences for a 3rd offense

The PGA tour PIP and the LIV exhibition PIP hit different!

[Dutch1008]

12 minutes ago, clevited said:

I want to see the stuffiness of the game go away and it become a little more "cool" and approachable for more people.

There are so many things happening in golf that are doing this very thing. 

 

EAL and Random Golf Club

The Good Good crew

Top Golf

Tons of upstart DTC companies (Vice, Malbon, True Linkswear, Palm, Eastside, etc)

 

Just because the PGA viewership is old doesn't mean the game isn't growing in the younger demo. 

[GoTime]

Is LIV reportedly any where near a TV deal? Where is Spike TV when you need it

[clevited]

4 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

There are so many things happening in golf that are doing this very thing. 

 

EAL and Random Golf Club

The Good Good crew

Top Golf

Tons of upstart DTC companies (Vice, Malbon, True Linkswear, Palm, Eastside, etc)

 

Just because the PGA viewership is old doesn't mean the game isn't growing in the younger demo. 

 

True, but on the pro tour side of things I guess, not much has happened until now imo.

[aus10KC]

1 minute ago, GoTime said:

Is LIV reportedly any where near a TV deal? Where is Spike TV when you need it

 

Get Jon Taffer to yell at players who are playing bad to ''Shut it down''. 

[Hawkeye77]

8 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

Consequences

1st failure: Teach a short game class to MBS

 

I am not going anywhere with the concept of "hinge and hold" and am not encouraging anyone else to go anywhere with it either, lol.  "Cutting edge" humor is in the eye of the beholder, but darn, so many places to go . . . . we will not go!!!

 

But we ought to be able to chuckle quietly a bit on the lighter side of this all when the context of thread is begging us to do so. 😉

[RobS]

13 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Not going to argue, but it is not serious thinking to suggest all that has gone into running an entity like the PGA Tour could be done by just anyone, lol.

 

The point was they know how much he makes and honestly doubt they begrudge him his salary as you claimed and of course you don't address that.  The rest, again, not going to argue but the LIV "argument" isn't even close to the clear cut "age" argument you assert, not much in that at all, but so much of what it really is has been discussed over and over, easy to find and understand, but since much is beyond the scope of what we are now supposed to be talking about, I'm not touching it.

I imagine that the Tour, under Monahan, signing the new 9 year media deal at a 70%, $2.7B increase over the prior deal might have had a positive impact on Monahan's compensation.

[kmbean]

“MBS you just need to dig the leading edge as hard as you can into the back of the golf ball”

[aus10KC]

1 minute ago, RobS said:

I imagine that the Tour, under Monahan, signing the new 9 year media deal at a 70%, $2.7B increase over the prior deal might have had a positive impact on Monahan's compensation.

 

But he is terrible, greedy and has done nothing for the players, should be fired on the spot 🤣

[Titleist99]

42 minutes ago, RH82 said:

If LIV wants to be taken somewhat seriously they need to go to 4 rounds and remove the team nonsense and the shotgun start.

How 'bout them 4Aces !......LOL!

[CDM]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

This may be true for the 3 who seek the injunction to play in the Fedex Cup. With the SGL supposedly going to 14 events next year, I don't believe for a minute that any on the lawsuit care about playing on the PGA Tour in 2023. I would also bet that Phil's SGL contract requires him to be a headliner in any lawsuit. 

 

@Ghost of Snead  I think you nailed it.  I don't think they care at all for next year, this appears to be the test for the future of LIV golf.

 

If they loose it, not sure LIV goes past 2-3 years.

 

Should the players win based on Anti-trust under the current PGAT format - contracts it opens the doors for ALL players to go play LIV events and come back to the PGAT and with no ramifications.   Now the PGAT could change its rules/regulations going forward and might even have to start paying players too so that will no bode well for them as we know.  Will be just like any professional athlete now.    

[Hawkeye77]

Just now, Pastit said:

Thanks for posting. The enclosed letter is a joke in my opinion and not drafted by a lawyer. I agree with you regarding working something out if possible. It looks like there are more good players about now than the various tours can accommodate so there is room to expand. I can’t see this PGA Tour approach working in Europe. 

Guarantee it was vetted by a lawyer and from the point of view of the Tour says what it needs to say and no more. 

[m052310]

Just read (much of) the complaint. Very well done, which isn't surprising from the heavy hitters representing plaintiffs. Should be interesting. 

[subrew]

13 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

How 'bout them 4Aces !......LOL!

 

I actually watched the third event, and the team format sorta worked.  At one point with about 6-7 holes to go, 4Aces was sorta flat.  Meanwhile the Majesticks started making birdies and tied it up.  Lee and Ian became part of the show, despite nobody normally caring about two players in 10th place.  Suddenly Pat Perez' 20ft birdie putt (while he was competing for 400th place, 50 stokes over par) actually meant something.

[Pmookie]

Good Lord, they joined another Tour, GO AWAY! If a kid leaves a college and goes to play for another school, his previous school isn’t going to let him play for them on his off weeks! This is idiotic.

Quit a company, go to a competitor,  then go back and ask to play in the company softball tournament from your prior employer. Yeah. How would that work?!

Just go away!!!!!

[bladehunter]

23 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

True, but on the pro tour side of things I guess, not much has happened until now imo.

I disagree ( of course ). The stuffiness as you call it - to me looks like the price  of admission.  I love that you have to act like somebody - dress at least remotely like somebody and that certain things are taboo ( hats inside , spitting on greens , yelling like an idiot ,music on course during competition etc).     
 

why does everything on earth have to be dumbed down.  Pardon the phrase.  I’m not calling you stupid. You know I’m not.  I respect your posts even though I regularly disagree. But the phrase seems apt.  I don’t buy the idea that these ideals are barriers to getting into the game.  They’re not except for attitudes.  Those who don’t like it shouldn’t join.   I don’t really like football.  So I don’t join and play any rec league football.  And I’m big and fast. I could do it for my age group.  
I also don’t buy it on issues of monetary status.  I belong to a $100 a month semi private.  That’s a family membership.  You can’t play any game that cheap.  It’s not grand. But it’s far from a dump.  There’s a Donald Ross 30 min from me that's $700 upfront and $150 a month.  It has bent greens and some of the best Mountain View’s you’ll see. 
 

i think In general  a lack of self respect , decorum and respect for any tradition is a bad thing.  Change in the name of progress instead of need is usually a backwards move in the end.  Progress only comes from necessity.  Where’s the need ? 

Edited August 3, 2022 by bladehunter

[RobS]

2 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

But he is terrible, greedy and has done nothing for the players, should be fired on the spot 🤣

I don't know much about Monahan but negotiating long term TV deal at a 70% premium for a sport that not many people watch shows at least some degree of competency. 

[jdl]

1 hour ago, SirFuego said:

 

It's quite interesting to me that he is encouraging players to speak out on the topic.  It'll be interesting to see if any current PGA Tour players speak out publicly in favor of the lawsuit.

 

 

 

[Krt22]

4 minutes ago, m052310 said:

Just read (much of) the complaint. Very well done, which isn't surprising from the heavy hitters representing plaintiffs. Should be interesting. 

How long does it take you to read a 106 page long complaint

[Krt22]

15 minutes ago, kmbean said:

“MBS you just need to dig the leading edge as hard as you can into the back of the golf ball”

Phil: "Now I want you to try to blade this one, so the leading edge doesnt get caught up"

 

MBS: "We do not speak about blades so casually in the kingdom, can you rephrase?"

 

 

[clevited]

3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I disagree ( of course ). The stuffiness as you call it - to me looks like the price  of admission.  I love that you have to act like somebody - dress at least remotely like somebody and that certain things are taboo ( hats inside , spitting on greens , yelling like an idiot ,music on course during competition etc).     
 

why does everything on earth have to be dumbed down.  Pardon the phrase.  I’m not calling you stupid. You know I’m not.  I respect your posts even though I regularly disagree. But the phrase seems apt.  I don’t buy the idea that these ideals are barriers to getting into the game.  They’re not except for attitudes.  Those who don’t like it shouldn’t join.   I don’t really like football.  So I don’t join and play any rec league football.  And I’m big and fast. I could do it for my age group.  
I also don’t buy it on issues of monetary status.  I belong to a $100 a month semi private.  That’s a family membership.  You can’t play any game that cheap.  It’s not grand. But it’s far from a dump.  There’s a Donald Ross 30 min from me that's $700 upfront and $150 a month.  It has bent greens and some of the best Mountain View’s you’ll see. 
 

i think In general  a lack of self respect , decorum and respect for any tradition is a bad thing.  Change in the name of progress instead of need is usually a backwards move in the end.  Progress only comes from necessity.  Where’s the need ? 

 

I have introduced many people to the game over the years.  Most like the game, hate the image and cost of it.  Its a snooty sport imo.  I think it can stand to get a face lift.

[Titleist99]

9 minutes ago, subrew said:

 

I actually watched the third event, and the team format sorta worked.  At one point with about 6-7 holes to go, 4Aces was sorta flat.  Meanwhile the Majesticks started making birdies and tied it up.  Lee and Ian became part of the show, despite nobody normally caring about two players in 10th place.  Suddenly Pat Perez' 20ft birdie putt (while he was competing for 400th place, 50 stokes over par) actually meant something.

I was being facetious.......None of that nonsense mean a thing,...No one cares.

(I kid, I kid)

[bscinstnct]

How can the plaintiffs assert that the pga tour has a monopoly when

 

Within months they organized a rival tour with 8 events, half in the US, and expanding to 14 events within one year. 
 

And they have hired a large percent of their players from the pga tour. 
 

The liv itself is proof there is no monopoly. 
 

The tour may have had an issue if liv was one or two events that the pga tour forbade players to participate in. But clearly an entire rival league is something that the pga tour would suspend/ban players who joined. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by bscinstnct

[mitchl]

1 hour ago, idrive said:

Personally, I think Jay nailed it.

 

The PGAT players are encouraged to speak their minds.  The liv employees do nothing but repeat what they've been coached to say.

 

And wow… are they speaking their minds.   Now that the lawsuit has been filed, Zach, DL3, Billy Ho and others are being very clear that this is not a suit against some company, it is a direct attack on the individual players on the PGA Tour and their livelihood.   

 

Q:  Wonder if this will have any impact on the any players in the hopper and ready to depart after the Playoffs.    My guess with the full battle lines drawn out, that it will take a bit more to cross that line to the LIV side.    On one side you’ve got some of the most personable golfers making the argument for the PGA Tour, and on the other side, you have a lot of guys who didn’t get along well even before LIV.   Which side is Hidecki and Cam Smith on?