Simplifying the long end of the bag

[me05501]

One of my goals for this season was to optimize the long end of my bag. I feel like I've done that in a somewhat non-conventional way. Hopefully my experience will help someone else. 

 

I've always carried a driver and a 3+ or Mini Driver, something that was supposed to be straighter and not much shorter than driver. Modern stat wizards have proven this is faulty logic. Now I have a driver fit to me and don't need an "almost driver." 

 

My second longest club is now a four wood. It's my tee club of choice on a lot of shorter holes and I use it from the fairway a couple times a round. 

 

The next longest club is a 3 hybrid, followed by a 5 utility and then the usual irons and wedges. There are only 13 clubs in my bag but I don't miss the 14th one at all. 

 

A lot of people might look at the driver/four wood/hybrid/utility and assume that I have big gaps to cover. That just hasn't been the case for me out on the course.

 

This setup really clicked for me when I stopped thinking of gaps in terms of maximum distance. I think it terms of average expected distance at it all makes sense. Like this: 

 

Driver     235-255

4 wood   205-225

Hybrid    185-200

5U           175-190

 

There will be times when my hybrid will go 205 and other times when my four wood only goes 195. But on average the four wood is about 15-20 yards longer. I use them in different ways at different times. 

 

Tracking my clubs with Garmin GPS has also been crucial to helping my understanding of my game and the game of golf in general. It no longer bothers me that I can hit a drive as well as I know how and still get sub-optimal distance due to wind, moisture, rough, etc. I realize that over a 10-round stretch these things tend to average out. Analyzing my shot patterns has actually helped me take the game one shot at a time. 

 

The biggest benefit for me has been eliminating indecision. I step up to most tees with no question as to which club to pull. That's been worth a lot to me this season. 

 

Thanks for listening. Hope this helps someone. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by me05501

[xkilgorextroutx]

I did the same a few years ago when I dropped my 3/4 wood and now just have a driver then the 18* Hywood. Wide open hole? Driver. Tighter hole? Hywood. I may be a bit further back than I would be if I had a fairway wood but I know I'm in the fairway. Works for me.

[14max]

I just did this.  Too many woods on the top isn't good for me, so I went back to driver (10*), 5 wood (17.5*), and hybrid (24*).  I'm not missing much on the top end and the bag is lighter and has fewer headcovers.

[rsballer10]

I tried the 4 wood as my only fairway this year. I know it's optimal - but I didn't score as well on longer holes. Switching back to strong 3w/5w/4i like I had in previous years.

 

It seems like most people lose a wedge when they have 2 fairway woods, but I'd rather drop the 3i just because the gaps between 5/4/3 irons tend to be compressed anyway.

[me05501]

2 hours ago, rsballer10 said:

I tried the 4 wood as my only fairway this year. I know it's optimal - but I didn't score as well on longer holes. Switching back to strong 3w/5w/4i like I had in previous years.

 

It seems like most people lose a wedge when they have 2 fairway woods, but I'd rather drop the 3i just because the gaps between 5/4/3 irons tend to be compressed anyway.

 

This is definitely true for me. It was a factor in replacing my 5 iron with a 5 utility (Srixon Z765 irons and ZU85 utility). I have to be honest with myself that 6 iron is about the longest iron I can elevate and flight the way I want to. A traditional five iron for me produces a lot of low hooks. The utility gives me a flight that's more similar to my 6 iron. A four iron would be pointless for me. 

 

 

..

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by me05501

[dsmil]

I like this way of gapping because each type of club (wood, hybrid, utility) has its own benefits and I like how things gap out.  I personally wouldn't want a 3w and 5w next to each other or 18* and 21* hybrids next to each other because the gaps are small and the clubs do the same thing.

[Bubbtubbs]

Driver, 4w, 2i/19°h (depending on wind), 4i is my top of bag.

 

Covers 265, 245, 220, 205. I don't see much reason to have tighter gaps at the top when I can take some off or step on it more.

[lazyjc4]

I've done something similar, most days going with driver, 4-wood (16.5*), 4 hybrid, and 5 hybrid.  

There are times that I put in a more traditional 3-wood (14*), as the 16.5* is pretty shallow-faced and I'm not great with it off a tee, but it is only for specific tee shots.   

 

There's a significant gap between driver and 4-wood, but I'm ok with that.  I'm not going for greens more than 235-240 out, anyway, and the gaps between the other clubs are very manageable.  I've gotten better at learning where to miss (long or short), and hitting the appropriate club.  From 200+ out, I'm pretty happy getting somewhere near the green.  On it is a bonus for my game.  

[Lasorcier]

Pretty much a ditto.  Driver, 4-wood, 19° hybrid/3-iron, then irons starting at 4 on down.

 

Average with driver is 270.  4 wood is 235-250 (average is 235 because most times I don't try to smack it) depending on how hard I need to hit it, and the hybrid/3 iron is 215ish.  Those gaps seem to work for me.  

 

I seem to rarely use the hybrid/3-iron.  I could probably remove it and be okay scorewise in most instances.   

[MelloYello]

Dr - 260

4w - 240

7w - 220

4i - 200

 

 

The above setup has been great for me. I use the driver most of the time but 4w comes in handy where I need something distinctly shorter in distance but still on a flat trajectory. 

 

The 7w is a godsend that allows me tons of options when going for Par-5s. It also comes in handy off the tee on shorter holes. 

 

I used to try and stuff 2w or 3w in the bag as well but they're just not useful for average-length hitters and don't have a real place in the bag unless you're carrying driver 300+.

[Fuscinator]

OP, have you considered putting a left-handed (assuming you're a righty) gap or pitching wedge in as your 14th club?

[Rbsiedsc]

7 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

Dr - 260

4w - 240

7w - 220

4i - 200

 

 

The above setup has been great for me. I use the driver most of the time but 4w comes in handy where I need something distinctly shorter in distance but still on a flat trajectory. 

 

The 7w is a godsend that allows me tons of options when going for Par-5s. It also comes in handy off the tee on shorter holes. 

 

I used to try and stuff 2w or 3w in the bag as well but they're just not useful for average-length hitters and don't have a real place in the bag unless you're carrying driver 300+.

this is what i want to move to next year (As a 7W or a UW) since my 3H is inconsistent and very hooky.

 

Currently:

Driver: 290

4w: 260-270 off tee, 240-250 off deck

3H (18*): 220-230 (Very inconsistent with this)

4I: 210

Edited October 4, 2022 by Rbsiedsc

[Boricua Golf]

I used to have D, 3W, Hyb, then 4-P, this last year I switch to D, 3W, 3 Driving Iron (see sig), then 4-P, it has improved my scores tremendously...if I need to find the fairway, 3DI comes out it goes 240-260 off the tee, around 235-245 off the turf, I'll keep this setup for the foreseeable future, it just works for me... 

[me05501]

8 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

OP, have you considered putting a left-handed (assuming you're a righty) gap or pitching wedge in as your 14th club?

 

That's an interesting thought, but no. The lack of temptation to add a 14th club has been a surprise.

 

At age 53 I have two objectives for my bag: 

• I want every club to perform best with a relaxed, controlled swing. I don't want any club I have to swing hard to use.
• I want the choice of which club to use in a given situation to be as obvious as possible to avoid overthinking and lack of commitment to the shot.   

Both these goals help me get closer to a Zen sort of approach to the game where my mind can stay quiet and let my body perform in a natural way. 

[mister2cool]

19 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

OP, have you considered putting a left-handed (assuming you're a righty) gap or pitching wedge in as your 14th club?

Sometimes I wished I had a left-handed putter in the bag.. 🤣

 

[me05501]

39 minutes ago, mister2cool said:

Sometimes I wished I had a left-handed putter in the bag.. 🤣

 

 

One to putt with, one to throw. 

[B.Easy]

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

One of my goals for this season was to optimize the long end of my bag. I feel like I've done that in a somewhat non-conventional way. Hopefully my experience will help someone else. 

 

I've always carried a driver and a 3+ or Mini Driver, something that was supposed to be straighter and not much shorter than driver. Modern stat wizards have proven this is faulty logic. Now I have a driver fit to me and don't need an "almost driver." 

 

My second longest club is now a four wood. It's my tee club of choice on a lot of shorter holes and I use it from the fairway a couple times a round. 

 

The next longest club is a 3 hybrid, followed by a 5 utility and then the usual irons and wedges. There are only 13 clubs in my bag but I don't miss the 14th one at all. 

 

A lot of people might look at the driver/four wood/hybrid/utility and assume that I have big gaps to cover. That just hasn't been the case for me out on the course.

 

This setup really clicked for me when I stopped thinking of gaps in terms of maximum distance. I think it terms of average expected distance at it all makes sense. Like this: 

 

Driver     235-255

4 wood   205-225

Hybrid    185-200

5U           175-190

 

There will be times when my hybrid will go 205 and other times when my four wood only goes 195. But on average the four wood is about 15-20 yards longer. I use them in different ways at different times. 

 

Tracking my clubs with Garmin GPS has also been crucial to helping my understanding of my game and the game of golf in general. It no longer bothers me that I can hit a drive as well as I know how and still get sub-optimal distance due to wind, moisture, rough, etc. I realize that over a 10-round stretch these things tend to average out. Analyzing my shot patterns has actually helped me take the game one shot at a time. 

 

The biggest benefit for me has been eliminating indecision. I step up to most tees with no question as to which club to pull. That's been worth a lot to me this season. 

 

Thanks for listening. Hope this helps someone. 

 

I think the best part about your approach, is that it's a mix of what realistically works best for you and real data.  Furthermore, you're taking your home course and personal preferences into consideration.  This seems to lead to more decisive, relaxing, and enjoyable golf.

 

I commend you fine sir.  A worthy example for many of us.

 

 

[TravAz]

4 hours ago, me05501 said:

 

I've always carried a driver and a 3+ or Mini Driver, something that was supposed to be straighter and not much shorter than driver. Modern stat wizards have proven this is faulty logic. Now I have a driver fit to me and don't need an "almost driver." 

I am testing ditching the 3w and playing with the 2 full drivers approach myself. A g410 with a 70g shaft, weight in the toe, set flat and open is a low cut machine that I don't believe I can turn over. Just added a G425, set up opposite - weight in the heel, upright, closed 60 gram shaft with more flex for trying to hit "bomb draws" (relative to swing speed). I'll drop the gap wedge if I play a course with enough par 5s to justify the 3w...

 

The fun thing I discovered with this is the mentality matches the club choice - i.e. when I pull the fade machine, I don't try to kill it, and when I pull the bomber, I do. No indecision, no talking myself into trying to  murder the ball 1/2 way through my takeaway, etc. 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by TravAz

[Roejye]

Looking at the specs my top end of the bag looks like it's jumbled and probably shouldn't work, but it does. Each club has a general purpose and it works well for me and the yardages I encounter. Not being a big hitter I generally pull driver on most holes unless it's really tight or the driver is just not working. My 15° 3 wood is basically in my bag for the 9th hole on my home course (sometimes 2nd hole too), and my 17° super hybrid is basically for the 6th and 2nd holes at my home course, and usually the club I pull for ball advancement. I then go 4-5 hybrid into 6-AW. 

 

It's a bit of a hodgepodge, but it works for me.

[azgreg]

7 hours ago, me05501 said:

One of my goals for this season was to optimize the long end of my bag. I feel like I've done that in a somewhat non-conventional way. Hopefully my experience will help someone else. 

 

I've always carried a driver and a 3+ or Mini Driver, something that was supposed to be straighter and not much shorter than driver. Modern stat wizards have proven this is faulty logic. Now I have a driver fit to me and don't need an "almost driver." 

 

My second longest club is now a four wood. It's my tee club of choice on a lot of shorter holes and I use it from the fairway a couple times a round. 

 

The next longest club is a 3 hybrid, followed by a 5 utility and then the usual irons and wedges. There are only 13 clubs in my bag but I don't miss the 14th one at all. 

 

A lot of people might look at the driver/four wood/hybrid/utility and assume that I have big gaps to cover. That just hasn't been the case for me out on the course.

 

This setup really clicked for me when I stopped thinking of gaps in terms of maximum distance. I think it terms of average expected distance at it all makes sense. Like this: 

 

Driver     235-255

4 wood   205-225

Hybrid    185-200

5U           175-190

 

There will be times when my hybrid will go 205 and other times when my four wood only goes 195. But on average the four wood is about 15-20 yards longer. I use them in different ways at different times. 

 

Tracking my clubs with Garmin GPS has also been crucial to helping my understanding of my game and the game of golf in general. It no longer bothers me that I can hit a drive as well as I know how and still get sub-optimal distance due to wind, moisture, rough, etc. I realize that over a 10-round stretch these things tend to average out. Analyzing my shot patterns has actually helped me take the game one shot at a time. 

 

The biggest benefit for me has been eliminating indecision. I step up to most tees with no question as to which club to pull. That's been worth a lot to me this season. 

 

Thanks for listening. Hope this helps someone. 

I'm recently doing the same. I'm going D, 2h (16°), 4h (22°), 5i (28°). Even though I love my TM V-Steel fairways the added distance over my hybrids haven't resulted in better scores. Basically I'm hitting driver on every possible hole and just using the 2h as the long advancing the ball club and the 4h as a shorter advancing the ball club. I'm playing some of my best golf this way.

 

[hitnfades]

I started a similar transition at the top of my bag nearly 2 years ago. I carry 13 clubs on a regular basis as well.

 

My primary bag setup:

Driver

17* UW

21* UW

24* hybrid

6 iron-PW

48*, 52* and 56* wedges

Putter

 

I was carrying driver, 3W, 3H into 5 iron and down. I rarely used my 3W and only from the tee. So, I went to Driver, 17*/20*/23* hybrids into my 6 iron. With this transition I added a gap wedge to close up the scoring club yardages. This setup worked well, but I had some holes at the top of the bag at times. So, after some research and reading reviews on the forum I purchased an Apex UW 17* about a year ago. Problem solved for me. This club is versatile and has plenty of distance for me. I will add a club (3W or 5 iron) into my bag at times pending conditions/yardage. 

[dsmil]

I’m all for unconventional gapping at the top of the bag, especially if you aren’t confident with a certain club or if you don’t use a club enough to justify keeping it in the bag. My course only has one par 5, so I’m always going to care the most about how my clubs work from the tee since I’m rarely using them to hit into a green. 90% of my tee shots are with a driver (full or fairway finder swing) or a driving iron.

[Albatross Dreamer]

I've been thinking about this more lately, as my home course really only has 2 holes that I'd need a 3 wood off the deck. But I do like it off the tee for a fair amount of holes. I don't know that a 7w or hybrid makes sense for me either since I don't think they'd get any play. So really trying to decide if I want to have a 4w or 5w in the bag. Since this is WRX obviously the answer is gonna be both lol.

[vtpachyderm]

Thanks for topic as I'm in the same boat - I now play a 3 and 4 utility iron, and am now looking at what to do between the 3 iron and driver. Contemplating a 4/5 wood  as the gapping between my previous 3 wood and 3 iron was just too much and I don't really get along with hybrids - prefer the utility iron. I'm actually considering getting a new driver and fairway wood over the offseason - looking at the Cobra LTDx range - a 10.5 driver and then the 5 wood (really liked the baffler rails last time I had them).

[Port and Starboard]

43 1/2 "  10.5  Taylormade driver   (240 ish)

 

21 degree Taylormade hybrid    (215-220 tee)    (210ish FW)

 

3 iron - Wedges

 

It's a big gap between the driver and hybrid for sure....... but my overall consistency and confidence is ten fold when swinging my hybrid over a FW wood. I'm 65 years old, so it's not like I'm trying to reach for par 5's in two or playing from the back tees with the young bucks.  That ship sailed a long time ago. 🥺

 

I still keep a 3 iron in the bag for those longer sweeping slice recovery shots or going under low branches and It generally works out pretty well for me.

[bpdhlbrg]

Looks like a lot of folks have done something similar. I recently took my 4i out, so now I go D, 3W, 19* hybrid, 5i. 
 

I have been working a lot on increasing driver distance. Accuracy isn’t a problem. So on short tight holes, I think of it as a chance to get aggressive and leave myself a half wedge shot, which is a strength of my game. A cross hazard that cannot be carried is about the only reason I will lay up with less than driver, but the distance sacrificed with my 3W (~40-50 yards on average) is costly and it’s not any more accurate off the tee so in all other cases I’m hitting driver. 
 

On all the par 5s and a couple par 4s I’m hitting 3W with my second shot. The goal is to advance it as far as possible while keeping it playable. My actual distance with this club is not even remotely consistent. It could go anywhere from 190 on a low quality, spinny strike to 230+ if I nut it with no spin. I don’t have this situation at my home course, but at other courses if I need to clear a hazard I can count on a 190-205 carry from this club, but not anything more. 
 

I will hit my hybrid on any par 3s in the 180-200 range, tight second shots on a par 5, and for my approach on a couple par 4s at my home course. I feel good pulling this club when the actual yardage may have called for anything from a hard 5i or more. I can ease up, hit a low runner or high and soft, especially off a tee. I gravitate towards this club because I am reasonably confident I’ll make good contact and it’ll go straight, which I could not say about my 4i. 
 

The issues with my 4i we’re probably mental. But why carry it if I am going to always defer to another club. 
 

When it comes down to it, it’s all about expectations. When I am hitting into a green from 170 or more, I’m really not even worried about exact distance. I’m  aiming for center of the green,  wanting a clean strike that avoids the trouble, and somewhere in the vicinity of the yardage I need, give or take 20 yards each way. Basically, anything that isn’t shanked into the woods is acceptable. 

[Pars or Doubles]

Driver, 21* 4 hybrid, 5 iron....  I just don't trust myself, at the moment, to attempt anything from more than about 210 yards away, which is the 4h.  The 5 iron is 10 yards shorter, which is a reasonable gap for me.  If I'm more than 210 yards out, either I've made a mess of a par 4 or hit my drive short enough on a par 5 that there's no way I'm making it in two anyway.  Much simpler that way.

[birdiemachine]

When I carry, which is most rounds, I have 11 clubs. 
 

Dr 240

5 wood 215

5 hybrid 190

6-pw 180-120

52, 58, putter. 
 

I’ll add a 7 wood and swap out the 52 for a 50 and 54 if I’m pushing or riding. 

[bobfoster]

On 10/4/2022 at 11:37 AM, me05501 said:

The biggest benefit for me has been eliminating indecision. I step up to most tees with no question as to which club to pull.

Interesting. I've taken exactly the opposite approach. I've kept long lofts consistent for probably two decades, and they are traditional old school. 10* D, 15*3W & 18*5W, and maybe 10 years ago finally broke down and swapped my 3i for a Hybrid. With long and mid irons - it is kind of funny. My 150 club 10 - 15 years ago was around an 8i, and still is today (though I'm getting older and shorter). Because this year's average OEM 8i is probably at least 2* - 3* stronger than one from a decade ago. 

 

But here's the odd thing. Because I have kept consistency in clubs, it actually gives me a lot of questions about which club to pull, but I consider that a real plus. Distance is usually a secondary consideration for me for anything other than the Driver on long holes. My first thought (when I'm walking up to the ball and starting to conceive of the shot) is usually ball flight, how I want the ball to behave depending on the hole and course conditions. 

 

For instance, 150 out under calm conditions. That is a 90% swing on my 8i (I rarely ever swing a club 100%). But! If the green is a fast turtleback, I'll hit a hard 9i both because it can have a higher trajectory, and I can give it more spin - I want to make sure I can land and stop it. Likewise, if I'm hitting into the teeth of a decent wind, it will be a 7i (or even 6i) choked up, with a hooded 2/3s - 3/4s swing. Pierce the wind, keep it low, and roll it to the hole instead of trying to do a soft landing next to the hole.

 

Put another way, I have three basic shots with pretty much every club. 8i (that I'm using as an example) is about 150* straight. But also have a 155* - 160* lower flight draw, and a 145* higher flight fade. 

 

So, (in the Monty Python "and now for something completely different" category), what you are calling "indecision" that you want to avoid, I call "options" that I actually want to have. To me it is a positive that I feel the confidence the be able to choose between two or three different clubs on any given shot. I don't want certainty about distance, I want multiple ball flight choices for any given distance.

 

At the most basic level, the only real "opponent" a golfer ever plays is ... the course, and all of its variables. Including the kinds of grass, the weather, the elevation - distance is only one of many variables that enter into a shot. I live in the NE, long grass blades with deep roots. But also play a lot in Florida - short and dense grasses and roots. In the NE I hit down hard and take dig divots. In FL I shallow my swing, and become more a picker than a digger (if I swung in FL like I swing in NY I'd break my freaking wrist). At humid sea level in FL my 150 is an 8i, but I also lived in Mexico City (about 1.5 miles above sea level in thin, arid air) - and my PW was my 150 club. 

 

That said, I totally get what you are saying. When I said I've taken the opposite approach, was not even remotely implying it is a better approach, just a different one. We all play our best golf when we find our own unique game, and play within it. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by bobfoster

[STL_Baller]

Power used to be one of my weapons.  With age and wisdom comes the transition to more precision in the long game so I am in the process of re-tooling my bag to play off a 48* PW, 22* 3i, thus dropping a wedge and adding another fairway.  My wedge gap will be slightly bigger...but my main goal is to plat to 100y or longer for my approach to facilitate a full swing to the green.  My limited practice/playing time, and less power means my feel shots and half wedge game sucks....much better chance at two put par and the odd birdie with a full wedge in my hands.