Can a 65-year old get to scratch?

[Moonlightgrm]

I’ll try to be somewhat brief. I reached a zero handicap in August of 1993. I was 35-years old and could overpower most area golf courses (driver SS 112 mph). I maintained “scratch” until the end of that season. In 1994, I reverted back to my comfort zone of 2 to 3 handicap and with minor fluctuations stayed there until I reached 60-years of age. I started to notice a loss in flexibility and a loss in distance. Today, at 65-years old I am retired and before this season started I set a goal of getting back to scratch. I finished the 2022 season at 4.0. Over the winter, I worked on flexibility and strength. Once April came, I took a lesson to have a swing evaluation. My pro said my swing is fine. My Trackman numbers proved what I’d suspected. My driver SS is 98 mph with a carry of ~230 yards. My 5-iron carry is 172-yards. A far cry from days gone by. 
Here was his advice: Dump my 2-iron and 3-iron due to a loss in swing speed. This was a tough sell because I truly enjoy hitting long irons. But he was right. I don’t have the SS to get the height I need for optimum carry. I added a 21* hybrid and a 4th wedge. These have been great additions. Next he asked me what set of tees I generally play. I generally play from 6,700 yards (blue tees) to 7,000 yards (black tees) at sea level. He said that those yardages were too much for most golfers and at my age, I have earned the privilege of moving to the white tees at 6,400 yards. I swallowed my ego and play the white tees the majority of the time and the blue or black tees a handful of times. Finally, he told me to track some simple stats such as FIR, GIR, putts, up and downs, and hole-by-hole scores. 
I started tracking my data on May 27th and have 43-rounds in the books. Here are my numbers: FIR 350/580 = 60.34%, GIR 485/774 = 62.66%, total putts 1381 = 32.1 putts per 18-holes, up and down percentage 47.8%, scoring: 2 eagles, 56 birdies, 514 pars, 186 bogeys, 15 double bogeys, and 1 triple bogey. 18-hole scoring average = 75.7 or 3.7 over par. My current GHIN is 1.9 so I am moving in the right direction. Sadly, my pro has left the area to pursue better opportunities, so I never had the chance to review my numbers with him. I think my biggest stumbling block is short game. I need to make more putts! I rarely 3-putt but I miss too many makeable birdie putts. My up and down numbers could improve as well. It’s funny, before I started tracking them, I would have guessed my up and down percentage was better than 60%. My FIR numbers aren’t too bad. My missed fairways aren’t egregious with most misses within 5-yards.

Checking online for putting tips has produced more confusion than help. There are so many theories out there. 
My questions to the forum. What do my numbers suggest to you? Do the better players out there have any short game/putting suggestions that might help me reach my goal?

Thank you!

[st1800e]

Only suggestion is to work on your short game.  How old players keep up.  

 

 

[indianagolf2]

Yes.  .played with guy age 59 last month he's a plus 2

[ShortGolfer]

I'm old and slow, but I'm learning to play the short game.  Why not?  I may not be able to hit the ball far, but I can certainly hit the ball forty yards to stick it on the green.  Then make the putt for an up and down. 😀

[SNIPERBBB]

You're definitely a course scratch, getting to to scratch will be rough as it's mainly about tightening up things.

 

Putting is always curious one to fix. Need to know why your missing putts. Coming off our 54 hole club championship , I had 11 birdies and my putting was suspect. Just couldn't hit my lines and that cost me 6 strokes at least. So this is fresh in my mind for areas to fix.

[bluedot]

I’m 71 and a 5 index, still playing a lot of competitive golf, so your questions are pretty much the same as mine.  I have a couple of thoughts for you, and forgive me if you’ve already thought of all of this.

 

1. Are you SURE you’ve got the best possible equipment, especially your driver?  I ask this because I think it’s possible to get more than an average 230 carry from a 98 mph swing speed. If you could pick up 10 yards and hit one less club in 10 or more times a round, that matters.  And I wouldn’t sleep on the possibility that you can pick up at least a little bit of accuracy at the same time; if you could get to 70% FIR, again, that matters.

 

2. You don’t mention what you do in terms of practice and/or working out, but if you don’t currently work out, consider it.  If you DO work out, consider making the workouts more golf-specific; lots of work on shoulders, rotational work, and ESPECIALLY hip mobility, which is a pretty insidious problem for most golfers as we age.  Also, adding regular soft tissue work with a foam roller and LAX ball can make a big difference.

 

3. And finally, I’ll go in a different direction re your stats.  The best way to have a better short game is to miss in places where your chances of getting up and down are really good.  You are a VERY good player, and a temptation for very good players can be fire at pins, and end up short siding yourself.  This may not be an issue for you; at your level, course management skills are typically excellent.  But the flip side of that is the recognition that course management needs change as we age and lose distance, and lose some yards.

 

I play a lot of golf with a lot of really good senior players who have been scratch or plus but aren’t anymore, and the single biggest reason is loss of distance.  ANYTHING you can do to slow that process is worth trying.  

And good luck with the quest!

[MelloYello]

I think a lot of your stats look good except that putting stat. I think that needs to improve if we're being honest. 

 

If you want to be scratch you've got to be shooting under par on a few of those prior 20 rounds that GHIN looks at. Those super low rounds of 68 or 69 always require a slew of birdies. You're not going bogey free and eagles are virtually non-existent for shorter hitters so it's safe to say you'd better be capable of getting hot and making 4-5 birdies on a great day. 

 

And that requires exceptional putting. No two ways about it. 

 

Our Senior Club Champion is known for 1 thing....being lethal from mid-range. 

 

If you're playing the same course a lot you can get pretty confident with your reads. That's a big advantage. But being really, really good at hitting your intended start line is really the #1 thing IMHO. You've got to be able to step in and generate a roll that exactly matches what you're visualizing when you stand behind it. 

 

.

Edited September 4, 2023 by MelloYello

[MelloYello]

I would also discourage folks from chasing scratch if it's only ego that's getting padded. 

 

When you're a scratch you're basically giving up the chance to win Net events. In a field where a bunch of guys are getting 8-10 shots someone is going to come in, play great and shoot a 75 gross (net 65). And as a scratch, you just ain't shooting 65 in competition. So you've got no chance unless maybe it's flighted or something. 

 

But it also puts a lot of pressure on you and you may very well find it's not worth the added stress feeling like you either have to "carry" your partner(s) or that you're constantly letting them down by not shooting level par in every event. 

 

It's just something to think about (if you're a club golfer that does a lot of that type of thing). Scratch isn't really good enough to compete in big-time events or beat the +4 index college golfer who's Club Champ so at best, you'll be the better player of your little group of friends. That's why I point that out. Scratch is good for a club golfer, but not really beyond that. 

 

Scratch is pretty lonely come time for those fun events where everyone gets shots. You might find it's less fun and you ultimately enjoy golf less because pushing to be 2 shots better just takes so much time and effort?

 

Truth is, pretty much everyone who goes on the quest realizes those final couple strokes are really hard and suck a lot of fun out of it so you'd better have a legit drive to go even further. 

 

I didn't set out to be scratch, it just happened. I was constantly working on something out of passion for the game. I think whatever your lowest index is just sort of emerges that way. And that's not even getting into the fact that your index is always going to rise and fall.

 

For instance, indexes here are commonly about 2 strokes higher in the winter when courses here in the South are playable but dormant. So, in the end, "scratch" is a nebulous term. Is it your lowest handicap? Is it what you are in the summer? Is it what GHIN says at that moment? Is it the yearly average? Who even knows? And who cares? 

 

It's usually better to be the guy who could shoot 72 but still gets a couple shots, LOL. Plus, you don't want to suck the enjoyment and relaxation out of what should be a fun, social game. 

 

.

Edited September 6, 2023 by MelloYello

[jonsnow]

2 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

I would also discourage folks from chasing scratch if it's only ego that's getting padded. 

 

When you're a scratch you're basically giving up the chance to win Net events. In a field where a bunch of guys are getting 8-10 shots someone is going to come in, play great and shoot a 75 gross (net 65). And as a scratch, you just ain't shooting 65 in competition. So you've got no chance unless maybe it's flighted or something. 

 

But it also puts a lot of pressure on your and you may find it's not worth the added stress feeling like you either have to "carry" your partner(s) or that you're constantly letting them down by not shooting level par in every event. 

 

Something to think about. Scratch is pretty lonely come time for those fun events where everyone gets shots. It's usually better to be the guy who could shoot 72 but still gets a couple shots, LOL. 

I would respectfully offer a counterpoint.. The indignities of aging, especially if they are accompanied by health issues, are pretty tough on our egos in general. Any area we can push back against it, I'm all for making the best effort to do so. 

[golfarb1]

Bernard Langer just won  the Senior US Open at the age of 65 . No golfer has won a 

senior major at that age .
Obviously he has a number of genetic advantages , which none of us can hope to replicate . But he has some advantages , which you can partially replicate 

1. Equipment -top pros can easily change equipment on a whim ( dependent on their contractural obligations ) . You need to 

go to the best local club fitter and get your sticks updated . This is especially true with your driver . More and more pros are carrying a 7 wood , so this might be an option. Dumping the 2and 3 irons was an obvious choice . You might consider dumping your 4 iron . Wedges are another obvious area that equipment updates might offer advantages .

2. Adopt a golf specific workout routine 

This will consist of mobility , strength and speed work with a side emphasis on core/ back strength . 
The  obvious side effect to such a program is an improvement in overall health 

3. Goto a local short game guru to see if you need to make some changes 

 

The downside to the above suggestions is that they are not cheap. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by golfarb1

[jarturo]

Lot's of good info in all the posts.

 

I agree at 98MPH SS, you should be able to get a bit more carry, so I would look to optimize the driver head/shaft combination as you will be hitting shorter shots into the green. My SS is between 98-100MPH with a smash factor of 1.45 to 1.5 and my carry distance is 240+.

 

Being able to hit your putting start line is critical in the 10 ft of less range. More saved pars or birdies. 

[PJE]

Did you and your pro talk about your shafts? 
You are a skilled player but are you retaining the shafts from your youth? 
Maybe a more active tip or a lighter shaft which retains the current profile? 
Perhaps hit the driver another 10 yards or so? 

I mention this because I’m 60 and I went to a fitting and changed the driver shaft. I moved to a more active tip. I got 10 more yards immediately.  It helped a lot. 

[Santiago Golf]

Better putting will get you maybe get your index down .5 ... you are not going to practice putting hard enough to be as good as a Tour Pro ... you aren't 3 putting and if you make most of your 3 footers, you are doing well. 

 

Hit your irons closer and become a really good bunker player (much easy to get good at than putting)

 

I have played with so many scratch golfers that are avg putters but they hit every driver solid and down the corridor, hit irons green high, and control the distance well with short game shots. They let their birdies come to them.  

[MelloYello]

18 hours ago, Santiago Golf said:

I have played with so many scratch golfers that are avg putters but they hit every driver solid and down the corridor, hit irons green high, and control the distance well with short game shots. They let their birdies come to them.  

 

This is not what I've seen, especially when talking about guys who are older and don't have massive built-in power advantages. 

 

Scratch is not easy. A 5-index is easy. You can plod around 'just avoiding doubles' and be a 5-index all day long. You might even be a 2 index doing that if you're really skilled in the short game and can scramble a bit. 

 

But you have to be capable of shooting under par on a fairly regular basis to be scratch and while consistency off the tee (and everywhere else) certainly matters, consistently hitting approach shots inside 20-ft so you have lots of looks and making putts on top of that is by no means something to shrug off as though it's no concern. 

 

What defines good golf is the quality of someone who's making birdies over pars, pars over bogeys, bogeys over doubles, etc. Again, scratch is where you begin to see good golf go under par. It's more than solid. There's a level of precision there that needs to be recognized.

 

The guys I've seen who are scratch and beyond do not have problems making birdies on their home course. It's precisely that every hole is a birdie chance when sticking a peg in the ground and that they're so unlikely to hit bad shots that makes them scratch.

 

I think a lot of people conflate solid with scratch. 

 

If someone's attitude is that 'just making their 3-footers' is all they need to do on the greens they've got no shot. That's just not enough. You need to be really good inside 10- and 15-ft and be a great lag putter on top of that. 

 

If you wanna be scratch at 60+ years of age, the putter needs to be one of the best weapons in your bag. There's just no doubt about that. 

 

.

Edited September 5, 2023 by MelloYello

[getitdaily]

3 areas to focus on...

 

#1 - GIR - needs to he higher. You need to hit 2 more greens in reg per round. Evaluate why you miss greens and improve. Post a follow up in this thread...Likely an issue with course mgmt

 

#2/#3 combined - short game. You need to get up and down more often. That's going to be a combo of better chipping (more practice time) and better putting from 10' and in.

 

If you can hit 2 more greens per round and stay at 32 putts per round then you'll reach scratch. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by getitdaily

[Pleasedwith3putts]

I've played with a guy at my club who is nearly 70, plays off scratch and made the last 64 in the seniors amateur open last week.

Definitely opened my eyes to what is possible, consistency and a solid short game are key and go a long way.

[Mike_C]

I'll be 62 in a few weeks, still scratch to plus handicap.  I play regularly with a guy who is 74 and we score about the same, he is still scratch and for 74 is great physical  condition but not a big guy.   I was always a pretty long hitter, for my age I am still pretty long, driver SS 105-110.  My friend clearly has lost a bit of distance, but for his age is pretty long, hits his P790 7 iron about 165, driver carry ~240-250, his short game is better than mine, certainly his putting, he makes far more putts than I do.   We both play the back tees, but our course isn't super long, only about 6,800 yards, but a few holes where you have to lay up and has many hazards (OB and water), it has a rating of 74.2/136 from the back, but not because of length.

 

I work out some, focus on rotation and hip mobility as mentioned above, that is very important IMO for our age.   Golf focused is the way to go, and consider speed training too.  I would think if you put in the work and there are no physical limitations, you could gain 5% on your driver SS, and gain at least one club on your irons.  I would also agree that your short game is probably where you would see the most impact.  There are so many factors, but just getting it up and down 1 or 2 times per round is all it will take to get you there.  Your putting is probably not quite as bad as you might think, especially if you don't three putt very often.  But if you could just hit one or two chips/sand shots, etc. to gimmie range vs hitting them all to 8 feet (which is really not bad), again, that will get you there.....

 

 

[MelloYello]

On 9/3/2023 at 6:47 PM, Moonlightgrm said:

FIR = 60.34%

GIR = 62.66%

Putts 1381 = 32.1

U&D% =  47.8%

 

I would have guessed my up and down percentage was better than 60%.

 

My FIR numbers aren’t too bad. My missed fairways aren’t egregious with most misses within 5-yards.

Checking online for putting tips has produced more confusion than help. There are so many theories out there. 

 

What do my numbers suggest to you? Do the better players out there have any short game/putting suggestions that might help me reach my goal?

 

I don't look at Fwy% that much so I won't comment but 60% is very good. I carry it about 260 and average about 50%. 

 

You GIR% is also already very good. It's hard to average over 11 GIRs, although it can be done. It's likely you could get that to 12 (~67%) with 1 slightly better approach. FWIW I'm right where you are in the low-60% range. 

 

I think the scrambling is good. As you admit, you already thought you were pretty good and were surprised to see it only be 48%, but keep in mind that scrambling is a mix of easy-to-impossible situations.

 

Let's say you got that up to 60% and applied it to the 7 GIR you're missing:

 

48% saves = 17.64 shots per round

60% saves = 16.80 shots per round

 

At best, you'll save 0.84 shots per round, but that's assuming it's possible. 

 

Keep in mind it may have nothing to do with short game ability at all. That is, it may be a product of too often leaving yourself in impossible places. Avoiding just 1 of those impossible up-and-downs per round with a better approach may entirely solve that issue and get you up above 50%. It's nearly impossible to get above 60% unless your course is crazy easy around the greens. 

 

What's also important, is the fact that you may only be challenged with scrambling once or twice on those good days when you do go low. It's an important skill but it's more important the worse you play so it's sometimes more in line with raising your floor as opposed to elevating your ceiling. 

 

Instead, I would focus on making the putter one of your best clubs because you said you don't make a lot from outside tap-in range and that's a real problem IMHO. Putting is something that can really raise your ceiling. It's there everyday. It's there every hole. 

 

I realize that GIR% is the primary driver of index but you're already a really solid player (clearly!). I think you'll find it really hard to improve your numbers a great deal (especially GIR%) unless you grind like crazy and even then, you'll still be lagging behind with putting so you'll have to cross that bridge at some point.

 

Everyone wants to focus on their strengths but if it were me, I'd be looking for that thing I didn't really want to work on, that thing I could sense I was avoiding.

 

. 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by MelloYello

[TwistedSister]

I play with a guy that is scratch and 68 years old.

[DShepley]

On 9/4/2023 at 10:58 AM, MelloYello said:

I would also discourage folks from chasing scratch if it's only ego that's getting padded. 

 

When you're a scratch you're basically giving up the chance to win Net events. In a field where a bunch of guys are getting 8-10 shots someone is going to come in, play great and shoot a 75 gross (net 65). And as a scratch, you just ain't shooting 65 in competition. So you've got no chance unless maybe it's flighted or something. 

 

But it also puts a lot of pressure on you and you may very well find it's not worth the added stress feeling like you either have to "carry" your partner(s) or that you're constantly letting them down by not shooting level par in every event. 

 

It's just something to think about. Scratch is pretty lonely come time for those fun events where everyone gets shots. You might find it's less fun and you ultimately enjoy golf less?  It's usually better to be the guy who could shoot 72 but still gets a couple shots, LOL. 

 

.

YUCK! Just all around YUCK! Personally, the day I decide to stop trying to get better will be the day I hang the clubs up.

 

[ChrisSP]

On 9/4/2023 at 10:58 AM, MelloYello said:

I would also discourage folks from chasing scratch if it's only ego that's getting padded. 

 

When you're a scratch you're basically giving up the chance to win Net events. In a field where a bunch of guys are getting 8-10 shots someone is going to come in, play great and shoot a 75 gross (net 65). And as a scratch, you just ain't shooting 65 in competition. So you've got no chance unless maybe it's flighted or something. 

 

But it also puts a lot of pressure on you and you may very well find it's not worth the added stress feeling like you either have to "carry" your partner(s) or that you're constantly letting them down by not shooting level par in every event. 

 

It's just something to think about. Scratch is pretty lonely come time for those fun events where everyone gets shots. You might find it's less fun and you ultimately enjoy golf less?  It's usually better to be the guy who could shoot 72 but still gets a couple shots, LOL. 

 

.

 

So basically your advice is that golfers should only do what they need to do in order to be competitive net players?

 

What a pathetic take, especially from someone who's supposedly a good player.

[MelloYello]

59 minutes ago, ChrisSP said:

 

So basically your advice is that golfers should only do what they need to do in order to be competitive net players?

 

What a pathetic take, especially from someone who's supposedly a good player.

 

You're right, Chris/Crispy/Crispie. 

 

Excellent take. You totally summed up exactly what I said perfectly. 

 

I'm definitely not someone who knows anything about which they speak. I'm sorry I offered any opinion on the matter because as you so eloquently put it, I'm clearly "pathetic" and definitely not the type who's put work into my game or gone through the struggle or watched it up close or taken note of what the pros and cons actually are of going on the journey or anything like that.  

 

Nope, I'm an idiot, Chris, and I'm really glad you're here to make sure everyone's aware how dumb my takes are because God...imagine if people read my stuff? I'm obviously not in any position to offer any perspective on anything and when I stated that net events were the "only ones that mattered" I was really showing what an idiot I am. I'm just so dumb. 

 

I'm really glad I've got you to correct me when I open my stupid mouth. 

 

Man, I'm just such a moron, Chris. 

 

Thanks for not trolling me!

 

 

[MelloYello]

5 hours ago, DShepley said:

YUCK! Just all around YUCK! Personally, the day I decide to stop trying to get better will be the day I hang the clubs up.

 

 

There's trying to get better and then there's chasing a meaningless number. 

 

0, 2, 7, 18, +4....it's all relative to the player what exactly defines "good."

 

Folks who get to scratch get there because they earnestly want to improve. Folks who set out with a number in mind rarely do. 

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, DS. It's a serious difference I think you notice in virtually everyone who posts this "I'm beginning my journey today" kind of post. And I'm not saying this thread is that. The OP was clearly just looking for insights--different story. Legitimate approach. 

 

Anyone who's open enough to begin with the end in mind is deserving of the truth which is that a player's index is more something that emerges from how dedicated they are and what they do about it.

 

This thread is a great example of what a player should do--looking into how they might improve, ask others, survey stats, analyze strengths, weaknesses, trends, etc. Getting to scratch (and beyond) is about applying your curiosity, problem-solving ability and work ethic. The OP seems to have all 3 of those so my money's on him. 

 

But not everyone who talks about getting to scratch is honestly looking to get better. It's not always coming from a place of self-improvement. A lot of times it's just pure ego and you find those people are just there to publicize their "journey" or something silly. That's great--if those people are willing to have discussion--but if it's just publicizing your own 'hey, here's a shot-by-shot account of what I did today,' trust me, no one cares because there's no lesson to be learned from it, no discussion to be had. They're not inviting others to participate. 

 

I'd love to be a +4 but I don't take it seriously enough. If I began a journey announcing I was going to chase being a +5, the people I'd want to hear from were those that got there and could offer insight into what type of mentality and investment it took.

 

I think it's just a reflection of being realistic. Personally, I think "scratch" is a terrible goal for most adult men. You'll lose to every +index out there because, truth be told, you're not actually very good and you'll work so hard you'll neglect other things and probably get sick of golf. You wanna get to scratch? It's pretty easy. Play and/or practice everyday. That's the simplest formula but that's how it happens. Organize your life around golf and it'll absolutely happen. Do less and it won't. 

 

Scratch is easy >> buy a home near a golf course. Make the time everyday to play or practice. Find an understanding wife. Maybe don't have kids. Find a competitive group that is available multiple times per week to challenge you. Play for money. Take lessons. Obsess about the swing, your clubs, your course management. That's the easy stuff. Anyone can do that. 

 

It's better to focus on the stuff that's meaningful. Like, for instance, what would make golf more enjoyable? 

 

I want to hit good drives, hit greens, make putts, etc. I know that I get frustrated when I don't. And when I'm frustrated I don't enjoy the game of golf 1 bit.

 

I don't want to be a certain arbitrary index. There will always be a better index. I don't care what my index is. I care about whether I'm having fun playing the game and if I'm playing it at the level that makes me happy and that allows me to stay ahead of the frustration.  

 

Maybe it's part of the "process" learning to focus more on the stuff you can control versus obsessing about outcomes, but it's a practical criticism of a lot of folks who put an arbitrary number out there as if it means something. 

 

Trust me, it doesn't.

 

It's a spectrum. Improvement is great but nowhere on the spectrum does it say "here is where you have to be." 

 

.

Edited September 5, 2023 by MelloYello

[naval2006]

Good for the OP. Retired and with some serious golf goal. 
 

I’d definitely get to work on my putting. Especially because your long game is solid already. The handful of scratch players I play with are above average at ball striking and very good putters. The best ballstriker of that lot is a poor putter so at the end of the day he is always a notch below the rest. 
 

Also worth remarking the driver SS and distance. There’s probably more gas in the tank with a more appropriate shaft. 
 

I do believe you’re almost there. It’s mostly about fine tuning than anything else. 

 

[Ghostwedge]

I've never understood this logic.... If you you're a low cap player and age catches up with your distance you hit clubs off the tee and into greens. What is the big deal about moving.up a set of tees ? 

 

Why would you continue to play the back tee's and let your cap creep up and get frustrated in the process ? Your instructor is a common sense kind of guy, you earned the privilege of keeping a low cap.

[golfarb1]

As you age , you lose muscle mass and mobility . Some studies have suggested that the average man has lost  12% of muscle mass by 70 so it is irrational to play the same length courses that you played when you were younger . 

The rule of thumb is to play courses that are 26* average drive. 
 

Edited September 6, 2023 by golfarb1

[st1800e]

11 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

The rule of thumb is to play courses that are 26* average drive. 

What’s a 26* average drive? 

[getitdaily]

8 minutes ago, st1800e said:

What’s a 26* average drive? 

26 times your avg drive. Avg drive of 270, play from 7000.

[Pepperturbo]

Yes, you can reach scratch, again, if you want it badly enough and do the work.  Looks good so far.  It doesn't matter what a person's motivation is, as long as it keeps him or her moving in the desired direction.  The key is to set a goal, keep an eye on the ball, and persevere.

 

Note: There are many negative nancy's in the world, but especially on the internet that never had what it takes to raise above themselves; thus they cozy up to smut and spread it like manure.  See them for what they are, and pass them by. 

 

 

[MelloYello]

14 hours ago, Ghostwedge said:

I've never understood this logic.... If you you're a low cap player and age catches up with your distance you hit clubs off the tee and into greens. What is the big deal about moving.up a set of tees ? 

 

Why would you continue to play the back tee's and let your cap creep up and get frustrated in the process ? Your instructor is a common sense kind of guy, you earned the privilege of keeping a low cap.

 

I don't know how it works for older/shorter hitters (the dynamic could be different). Surely there's a point of diminishing returns where you cannot reach greens but the OP clearly isn't there.

 

Anyhow, for me and the guys I know the back tees are actually a key part in lowering your index. Playing the forward tees will almost always raise a player's index. 

 

Moving forward forces you to actually shoot lower scores which means hitting it closer and turning a few bogeys into pars, pars into birdies, etc. It can also take driver out of your hand, forcing you to hit to the same spot in the fairway and somehow still shoot a better score. How does that help?!

 

If I were to play off the women's tees for instance, I'd probably have to shoot mid- or low-60s which is easier said than done despite the "advantage" in distance! 

 

That's a lot harder to do than simply making the same scores from 25-yds further back where (let's be honest) you're probably going to have larger areas in the fairway to land (a shot saver in and of itself). Yeah, it'll add some distance to certain approach shots but if you're a skilled player that isn't as penal as moving forward and having to make birdies (which are always hard) . 

 

Longer approaches here and there will be fractions of strokes whereas having to shoot multiple shots better from the up tees can be a real challenge. 

 

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Edited September 6, 2023 by MelloYello