Ian Fraser at Club Champion new pricing structure for fitting

[5hort5tuff]

Everyone in this thread saying "Ian is not CC", you have to realize he is.  They pay his salary. He is now a direct representation of CC. 

You guys also think the LIV guys don't represent LIV too?

 

The crazy price for the fitting aside....the $4000 guaranteed purchase is a really concerning aspect.  It really forces you to make all of your decisions without debate. Golf is crazy sometimes.  I wouldn't even consider this as an option.  

 

I've known too many people who have been fit...and the clubs didn't work out. 

Edited April 11 by 5hort5tuff

[Tzoid]

1 hour ago, 5hort5tuff said:

Everyone in this thread saying "Ian is not CC", you have to realize he is.  They pay his salary. He is now a direct representation of CC. 

You guys also think the LIV guys don't represent LIV too?

 

The crazy price for the fitting aside....the $4000 guaranteed purchase is a really concerning aspect.  It really forces you to make all of your decisions without debate. Golf is crazy sometimes.  I wouldn't even consider this as an option.  

 

I've known too many people who have been fit...and the clubs didn't work out. 

I agree with this.... $ 4,000 is probably close to current retail on a full bag based on the following premium costs. 

The swag pricing below is without Premium Shaft upgrades from manufacturer or sales tax, so one may easily spend more than $ 4k !! 

• Driver - $ 600.00
• Fairway-$ 350.00
• Fairway- $ 350.00
• Hybrid- $ 300.00
• Irons - $1,500.00
• Wedges - $ 500.00
• Putter - $400.00

            Total = $ 4,000.00  🤓

Edited April 11 by Tzoid

[dubbelbogey]

It's absolutely 100% within our rights to voice an opinion on if this is a good value or not. But it's just that, an opinion. Others may disagree with our opinion and that's fine, but we can certainly comment on whether or not we think it's a good value and not just simply let our wallets do the speaking.

 

This happens all the time in any consumer-driven enterprise. Sometimes those voices are more public than others (and I'd also argue that WRX is a pretty small, niche audience and does not have a large public presence.)

 

What makes this somewhat more egregious is that they're changing the price for some who've already reserved a spot under the prior pricing structure. I'm not qualified to make any legal argument as to whether or not that constituted a contract, but at the very least it's shifty.

[Louis_Posture]

10 minutes ago, dubbelbogey said:

but at the very least it's shifty.

It seems that is the culture of CC.

[dcmidnight]

43 minutes ago, dubbelbogey said:

What makes this somewhat more egregious is that they're changing the price for some who've already reserved a spot under the prior pricing structure.

 

This is actually a really good point.

 

IMO.

 

If people were getting on the waiting list for an $800 fitting and now its $5,000 - thats not that cool. Prices go up and down but this is not a small increase where they say "Hey due to rising costs our fittings are not $820 or $850."

 

But its certainly their right and honestly, probably their whole point if the goal is cutting down the waiting list completely.

[Loose_Ferrule]

3 hours ago, Tzoid said:

I agree with this.... $ 4,000 is probably close to current retail on a full bag based on the following premium costs. 

The swag pricing below is without Premium Shaft upgrades from manufacturer or sales tax, so one may easily spend more than $ 4k !! 

• Driver - $ 600.00
• Fairway-$ 350.00
• Fairway- $ 350.00
• Hybrid- $ 300.00
• Irons - $1,500.00
• Wedges - $ 500.00
• Putter - $400.00

            Total = $ 4,000.00  🤓

The pricing is Canadian funds so the reality is it's $2,900 USD in equipment.

 

As I've said earlier, I'm not likely going to spend $725 USD ( $1,000  CDN ) on a fit but $2,900 ( $4,000 CDN ) on equipment is not a lot based on what the average WRx'er spends in a season.

 

There are irons sets weekly in the BST that are used for $2K+

 

People can spend their money how they want, after all it's their money. Ian can charge whatever he wants, after all it's his time. Don't see why people get so angry. The only one who should be upset is the original poster who has been waiting for 6 months and they changed the price and parameters on him.

 

 

Edited April 11 by Loose_Ferrule

[5hort5tuff]

3 hours ago, Loose_Ferrule said:

The pricing is Canadian funds so the reality is it's $2,900 USD in equipment.

 

As I've said earlier, I'm not likely going to spend $725 USD ( $1,000  CDN ) on a fit but $2,900 ( $4,000 CDN ) on equipment is not a lot based on what the average WRx'er spends in a season.

 

There are irons sets weekly in the BST that are used for $2K+

 

People can spend their money how they want, after all it's their money. Ian can charge whatever he wants, after all it's his time. Don't see why people get so angry. The only one who should be upset is the original poster who has been waiting for 6 months and they changed the price and parameters on him.

 

 

 

It is a lot because not everyone is looking to replace their entire set during a full bag fitting.  

 

Obviously if money is not an issue.. go ahead and dump your money into this ridiculous premium fitting deal....but for many golfers this is just out of the cards.  This $4k guarantee is basically saying "you are wasting Ians time of you don't buy 4k worth of equipment"

 

I prefer a no pressure experience. 

Edited April 11 by 5hort5tuff

[Loose_Ferrule]

1 hour ago, 5hort5tuff said:

 

It is a lot because not everyone is looking to replace their entire set during a full bag fitting.  

 

Obviously if money is not an issue.. go ahead and dump your money into this ridiculous premium fitting deal....but for many golfers this is just out of the cards.  This $4k guarantee is basically saying "you are wasting Ians time of you don't buy 4k worth of equipment"

 

I prefer a no pressure experience. 

 

My point is if you want to get a full bag fitting and new clubs ( not everyone has new stuff ) then $4K Canadian isn't a lot. Yes it's a lot of money but not if you're looking for a full bag of premium clubs.

Based on your signature you're not afraid to spend approx $1k on a putter that to you have never tried or have no idea if you will like it. I think it's great and understand why you do it but some people will think it's crazy. Everyone values different things and that's what keeps many business's going.

Edited April 11 by Loose_Ferrule

[5hort5tuff]

1 hour ago, Loose_Ferrule said:

 

My point is if you want to get a full bag fitting and new clubs ( not everyone has new stuff ) then $4K Canadian isn't a lot. Yes it's a lot of money but not if you're looking for a full bag of premium clubs.

Based on your signature you're not afraid to spend approx $1k on a putter that to you have never tried or have no idea if you will like it. I think it's great and understand why you do it but some people will think it's crazy. Everyone values different things and that's what keeps many business's going.

Nothing in my signature was 1k. Most of my putters (custom to my specs) were $650 or less.  I was for for my putter twice. Once at PING and once at TXG.  Good experiences and neither were more than $100 Canadian.  

 

Regardless...if my signature has 5k worth of clubs...I would prefer to be for and buy everything on my own, when I'm ready. 

[Loose_Ferrule]

30 minutes ago, 5hort5tuff said:

Nothing in my signature was 1k. Most of my putters (custom to my specs) were $650 or less.  I was for for my putter twice. Once at PING and once at TXG.  Good experiences and neither were more than $100 Canadian.  

 

Regardless...if my signature has 5k worth of clubs...I would prefer to be for and buy everything on my own, when I'm ready. 

Wonderful, no is saying you have to get fit by Ian Fraser, do what you want. Everyone thinks this is outrage and meanwhile they likely would never got to see Ian anyway. They have set the parameters and they have to live with it, if no one wants to go for a fitting then they will make changes.

 

And by the time you buy a Krew, TP Mills or Mannkrafted the will be close to $1,000 Canadian by the time it arrives at the door. Yes they are built you your specs but it doesn't mean they will work or you will like them. Trust me I've been down that road, like you I appreciate nice putters.

 

[5hort5tuff]

At this point I'm not sure what we are arguing haha. 

[Doucer]

13 hours ago, dubbelbogey said:

It's absolutely 100% within our rights to voice an opinion on if this is a good value or not. But it's just that, an opinion. Others may disagree with our opinion and that's fine, but we can certainly comment on whether or not we think it's a good value and not just simply let our wallets do the speaking.

 

This happens all the time in any consumer-driven enterprise. Sometimes those voices are more public than others (and I'd also argue that WRX is a pretty small, niche audience and does not have a large public presence.)

 

What makes this somewhat more egregious is that they're changing the price for some who've already reserved a spot under the prior pricing structure. I'm not qualified to make any legal argument as to whether or not that constituted a contract, but at the very least it's shifty.

This is very well said. I agree 100%.

 

 

[cardia10]

Hearing all this, why just not fly to the TM Kingdom, get fit with the best in the world, have fully custom clubs and save $1,000? Is this guy or any guy that good to demand that much? A year's membership at a private club or a fitting? Any PGA Superstore in the world has the equipment and ability to do the exact thing for $199 if you find the right fitter you like.

[EddieEdwards]

There's no problem with the price of the fitting.  Club champions club prices are ridiculous though, and a $4000 forced purchase is ridiculous.  $4,000 for a full bag of new clubs is about right.  You'll probably only get 1/2 a bag for that though.  People like shiny new clubs even if they don't need them though.

 

I can see the value in having the clubs rebuilt to your specs, but I don't think thier club builders are that special.  If they were they would shave weight off the hosels of thier fitting clubs to compensate for the adapters.  A friend of mine waited weeks for hybrid from them and it has the wrong size grip.

 

 

[WristySwing]

On 4/13/2024 at 8:43 AM, EddieEdwards said:

There's no problem with the price of the fitting.  Club champions club prices are ridiculous though, and a $4000 forced purchase is ridiculous.  $4,000 for a full bag of new clubs is about right.  You'll probably only get 1/2 a bag for that though.  People like shiny new clubs even if they don't need them though.

 

I can see the value in having the clubs rebuilt to your specs, but I don't think thier club builders are that special.  If they were they would shave weight off the hosels of thier fitting clubs to compensate for the adapters.  A friend of mine waited weeks for hybrid from them and it has the wrong size grip.

 

 

 

My guess is, like someone above pointed out, that this is to scare away some of the waitlist. For instance, 95% of this thread may have considered a $1000 fitting if they thought it was by one of the best fitters in the world.  The minute that comes with a "well, you also need to get some clubs through us", they turn tail.  I imagine this is exactly by design, to remove clogging up the waitlist for people who are actually willing and able to buy a full bag of new clubs. As several have pointed out above, $5000 CAD is about the going rate for a full bag of off-the-rack OEM clubs. It would be about $8-10k if you went all custom. Heck, for some people that's an insane deal. You get fit by the best fitter in all of Canada, and if you buy the closest thing going to what he fit you for from the OEMs, you're laughing.  You could walk into GolfTown and have the 18 year old kid who barely knows what loft a SW is supposed to be grab you a full kit of stuff out of the backroom and it would cost you about the same, might as well have a professional eye do it for you as well.

 

Just in case people think I am lying, here's a breakdown. If you bought some of the most expensive clubs on the market, but one's that wouldn't be out of the ordinary for an avid player, you're looking at $5600 CAD, before fit, before tax. That is Qi10 LS driver, Qi10 Tour 3 & 5 wood, G430 hybrid, 5-PW, AW in Titleist 2023 T-series, two Vokey SM10s, and either a Scotty, Bettinardi, Toulon, PLD, or EVNRoll putter.

 

So, if I buy these OEM, say getting fit into the 1K Pro Blue in the driver and fairways, I go stock AV Limited Blue. I get fit for some sort of 85g supercharged DI/IZ/Accra in the hybrid, but opt for the stock HZRDUS Red, Chrome 2.0, or Kai'li, Titleist has a host of free shafts now in the Nippon and True Temper families, plus some decent graphite options, and if I get the hard sell on a Stability or LAGP putter shaft I can just say no. Where's the grift exactly? I'm spending $1000 for a fitting that I was 75% of the way there okay with doing before, and if I knew going in I was buying a full kit of new sticks, how is this ridiculous?

 

It is only ridiculous for the guys who wanted to go in, spend 4hrs talking to Ian and hitting balls only to walk away and piece it together after the fact through eBay, demo sales, or the used market. In my mind, this stops this process entirely, which is probably exactly why Ian and CC decided to go this route.

[straightshot7]

On 4/11/2024 at 6:54 AM, Tzoid said:

I agree with this.... $ 4,000 is probably close to current retail on a full bag based on the following premium costs. 

The swag pricing below is without Premium Shaft upgrades from manufacturer or sales tax, so one may easily spend more than $ 4k !! 

• Driver - $ 600.00
• Fairway-$ 350.00
• Fairway- $ 350.00
• Hybrid- $ 300.00
• Irons - $1,500.00
• Wedges - $ 500.00
• Putter - $400.00

            Total = $ 4,000.00  🤓

 

 

$4k is only going to get you irons with CC, that's the thing. After they are Pured and Spun and the Obans go in, you're at 4k before even looking at woods or wedges. 

[Louis_Posture]

If the goal is to hit consistently better shots and, or shoot lower scores I guarantee that anyone willing to spend hundreds or thousands on a fitting would be much better served by taking lessons from a competent PGA instructor.

But if the goal is to have fun going thru a fitting process that's o.k. too.

[Golfinfloridaafter40]

On 4/12/2024 at 9:13 AM, cardia10 said:

Hearing all this, why just not fly to the TM Kingdom, get fit with the best in the world, have fully custom clubs and save $1,000? Is this guy or any guy that good to demand that much? A year's membership at a private club or a fitting? Any PGA Superstore in the world has the equipment and ability to do the exact thing for $199 if you find the right fitter you like.

No way I would pay to have Trottie run his mouth non-stop while I was trying to concentrate on making good swings, besides TM is the worst of the big boys about QC. Rather spend money witth Titleist or Mizuno and get what I am paying for

[cardia10]

4 hours ago, Golfinfloridaafter40 said:

No way I would pay to have Trottie run his mouth non-stop while I was trying to concentrate on making good swings, besides TM is the worst of the big boys about QC. Rather spend money witth Titleist or Mizuno and get what I am paying for

Are they the worst in QC or do they sell the most volume and QC issues show up on proportionately the same level based on sales ? I see just as many Callaway, Titleist, Ping and others with faces caving. I think it is more a design flaw trying to maximize distance and trying new materials, but again, if some random guy has the same value, go with him. I'm just not big on burning money with a company who is known to just buy stock, disassemble, part out, rebuild.

[03trdblack]

On 4/8/2024 at 11:03 PM, bmrowe said:

I had an hvac guy out last week $275/hr. Roof inspector, $300/hr. Plumber, $250/hr. 

$250/hr is only $500k/yr if he billed 40hrs/wk, which I'm sure he doesn't. On top of not billing 40hrs/wk, I imagine he is getting maybe half the hourly rate from CC. Seems pretty fair to me. How much do you think he should be making?

 

Your plumber is making $500k a year 😳 Not sure where you live but apparently I should have been a plumber.

[03trdblack]

Double Post

Edited April 15 by 03trdblack

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

The before and after number will show if the fitting was worth its price. Till I can see the data to show that. Then I just can’t see it being worth it even if you are Mr Bigmoneybags.  I’ve seen before and after fittings from places like CC and PGA superstore. And they are not impressive. 

[Golfinfloridaafter40]

10 hours ago, cardia10 said:

Are they the worst in QC or do they sell the most volume and QC issues show up on proportionately the same level based on sales ? I see just as many Callaway, Titleist, Ping and others with faces caving. I think it is more a design flaw trying to maximize distance and trying new materials, but again, if some random guy has the same value, go with him. I'm just not big on burning money with a company who is known to just buy stock, disassemble, part out, rebuild.

Never heard of anyone having those issues with Titleist or Mizuno.  Yes TM has the most problems, because the QC is awful and because they try to halfway keep up with their nonsense marketing that guarantees 15 more yards every year. My tour issued 2023 P790 heads weren't even all within spec, company is a joke at this point.  Driver caving in, faces falling off, swing weights all over the place within sets.  TM is a marketing company that sells cheaply made clubs and sometimes they have good tech, other times not. 

[J Bez]

10 hours ago, 03trdblack said:

 

Your plumber is making $500k a year 😳 Not sure where you live but apparently I should have been a plumber.

Don't confuse gross with  net- that $250/hr includes the plumbers salary, plus taxes, pus benefits, plus the van, plus his tools, plus the person who scheduled the appt, plus their office cost, plus......

 

Just as CC has corporate an site cost that their $4K fee/sale has to cover

 

Of course last time I had a plumber show up at 8 PM and  tell me what his hourly rate was I told him I didnt charge that much as an attorney.  He told me he didnt bill out at that was he was in law as well....

[rorykoepka]

I love all of these guys in here saying he is the “best in the world” when they haven’t even been fit by him. I’ve been fit by him and I would say he’s good, but best in the world is just a laughable statement

[jkman]

Unless I as trying to play pro golf....seems like a fitting at TPI or the Kingdom would be a better overall experience for the money. How many tour players has Ian fitted? 

[theboypinoy]

3 hours ago, jkman said:

Unless I as trying to play pro golf....seems like a fitting at TPI or the Kingdom would be a better overall experience for the money. How many tour players has Ian fitted? 

 

Ian used to work with Taylormade, and he had worked with touring professionals at some point:

 

[me05501]

This same debate exists point for point over in the Instruction forum with the subject being AMG's pricing for in-person lessons. 

 

Some pricing is based on value provided and some is based on supply and demand. Some vendors are counting on a halo effect from aspirational pricing and some customers are hoping to find some magic in a price point that most people can't or won't pay. 

 

These factors exist in every marketplace everywhere. 

 

I follow a YouTube channel for SAMCRAC. He buys wrecked or non-functioning high-end cars at auction and then takes viewers through the process of rehabbing the cars for resale. 

 

Very often he'll be diagnosing an electrical issue in an Aston Martin or Bentley or whatever and will find that the culprit is a Ford or Volvo component that can be found at any junkyard for under $50. Despite all the rich leather and swooping sheet metal most $200,000 cars are made from the same components as $50,000 cars. 

 

So why do some customers pay $200,000 for these cars? Because they're rare and desirable. Because they have the money to drive something different...or they at least want it to appear that way. 

 

Stop trying to apply economic logic to non-essential services like high-end golf club fittings. The math don't math and it never will. 

[dmecca2]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

This same debate exists point for point over in the Instruction forum with the subject being AMG's pricing for in-person lessons. 

 

Some pricing is based on value provided and some is based on supply and demand. Some vendors are counting on a halo effect from aspirational pricing and some customers are hoping to find some magic in a price point that most people can't or won't pay. 

 

These factors exist in every marketplace everywhere. 

 

I follow a YouTube channel for SAMCRAC. He buys wrecked or non-functioning high-end cars at auction and then takes viewers through the process of rehabbing the cars for resale. 

 

Very often he'll be diagnosing an electrical issue in an Aston Martin or Bentley or whatever and will find that the culprit is a Ford or Volvo component that can be found at any junkyard for under $50. Despite all the rich leather and swooping sheet metal most $200,000 cars are made from the same components as $50,000 cars. 

 

So why do some customers pay $200,000 for these cars? Because they're rare and desirable. Because they have the money to drive something different...or they at least want it to appear that way. 

 

Stop trying to apply economic logic to non-essential services like high-end golf club fittings. The math don't math and it never will. 

The problem people generally have with club champion is less "paying more for higher end stuff" and more of "paying more for the exact same stuff"

[Anser3]

16 hours ago, rorykoepka said:

I love all of these guys in here saying he is the “best in the world” when they haven’t even been fit by him. I’ve been fit by him and I would say he’s good, but best in the world is just a laughable statement

 

 

Best in the world is laughable because it is impossible to prove.  He is probably the most well known /most pubic club fitter (or at least one of them).    That's why commercials exist--to make people believe something is the best, whether it truly is or not.  I'm sure there are hundreds of clubfitters just as competent as Ian  who don't have all the caveats attached ($1000 fee, minimum purchase required, etc).   Club Champions vast inventory of shafts/heads, etc for fitting is impressive.  But even that has a diminishing return  (unless you can stretch your fitting over a couple days and numerous hours to hit every option).  I'd rather get a fitting from Tom Wishon than anybody.  I would love to work with James Lee as well  (especially since I'm a Ping guy).

Edited April 16 by Anser3