Joel Dahmen accuses Kang of cheating

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  • eagle1997eagle1997 Members Posts: 18,062 ✭✭
    so, went for it in 2, dropped back where he thought it crossed, then got up and down for par.



    joel obviously did not agree.



    if sung kang is playing a draw, and it turns into a hook, it doesn't have to carry, correct? it's where he believes it last crossed the hazard. if you don't have a straight line view from behind the player, it could certainly appear as an illegal drop.
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  • TheInfidelTheInfidel Gotta let the Big Dog eat.... Members Posts: 1,432 ✭✭


    Saying someone cheated is a strong claim.



    Couldn't the other guy claim bias and say he wanted me to make a higher score so he could move up and make more money?




    Do you even play golf? Seriously.



    The game is built on integrity and honesty. Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct. Like everyone else I'd like to see the footage first. But I don't think he'd use that language on twitter unless he was 100%. There doesn't need to be any bias, the drop was either within the bounds of the rules or it was not.

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  • lopey986lopey986 ClubWRX Posts: 2,216 ✭✭
    jonsnow wrote:


    Admit I didn't see it, but think Dahmen would have been better off leaving out "Kang cheated" & just presented the facts as he saw them.





    Saying someone cheated is a strong claim.



    Couldn't the other guy claim bias and say he wanted me to make a higher score so he could move up and make more money?




    considering the rules official sided with Kang, calling him a cheater makes him look really bad in my opinion.
  • eagle1997eagle1997 Members Posts: 18,062 ✭✭
    TheInfidel wrote:


    Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct.




    here's joel's shot tracker. his tee shot was well right of sung kang's tee shot. unless he walked over to get a better view, from his angle, there is *literally* no way he could tell where the ball crossed.



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  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,322 ✭✭


    Good to see someone call out another player if they feel they are breaking the rules. Don't see how it could go back and forth for so long though.



    Also let's be real that hat was awful...




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  • The GeneralThe General Members Posts: 1,727 ✭✭
    20 min and no rules official showed up? They had to let a group play through, lol
  • lopey986lopey986 ClubWRX Posts: 2,216 ✭✭
    TheInfidel wrote:



    Saying someone cheated is a strong claim.



    Couldn't the other guy claim bias and say he wanted me to make a higher score so he could move up and make more money?




    Do you even play golf? Seriously.



    The game is built on integrity and honesty. Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct. Like everyone else I'd like to see the footage first. But I don't think he'd use that language on twitter unless he was 100%. There doesn't need to be any bias, the drop was either within the bounds of the rules or it was not.




    And the rules official ruled in Kangs favor, not even sure where the grey area is on this. JD is wrong for calling Kang a cheater when a rules official sided with Kang.
  • cvhookem63cvhookem63 Fujikura Ventus Experience ETXClubWRX Posts: 4,703 ClubWRX
    eagle1997 wrote:

    TheInfidel wrote:


    Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct.




    here's joel's shot tracker. his tee shot was well right of sung kang's tee shot. unless he walked over to get a better view, from his angle, there is *literally* no way he could tell where the ball crossed.



    Screen_Shot_2018-07-02_at_10.38.31_AM.png




    It looks like Joel hit first, so I bet he walked and stood out to the right side of the fairway while Kang hit his 2nd. This would have given him a little bit better of an angle, but that is still a ways away to be calling him a cheater - especially when the rules official sided with Kang.
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  • jonsnowjonsnow GeorgiaMembers Posts: 1,231 ✭✭
    bscinstnct wrote:


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  • lopey986lopey986 ClubWRX Posts: 2,216 ✭✭


    20 min and no rules official showed up? They had to let a group play through, lol




    A rules official was there, JD said he spent the entire time arguing with him til he was "blue in the face".



    Honestly, not a good look for JD. Why so petty? He wasn't in contention and Kang wasn't costing him any money. Call in a rules official and let them decide and move on.
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,360 ✭✭
    TheInfidel wrote:



    Saying someone cheated is a strong claim.



    Couldn't the other guy claim bias and say he wanted me to make a higher score so he could move up and make more money?




    Do you even play golf? Seriously.



    The game is built on integrity and honesty. Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct. Like everyone else I'd like to see the footage first. But I don't think he'd use that language on twitter unless he was 100%. There doesn't need to be any bias, the drop was either within the bounds of the rules or it was not.




    Why, because no one who ever had a strong opinion on twitter is wrong?



    Kang would be within his rights to sue in this case. Much as Mickelson threatened to sue over being called a cheater for using the Eye2



    Either he can prove it or he can't. If he can't he shouldn't post opinion as fact. And since it was blessed by an official I'd side with Kang here pending further evidence
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  • cvhookem63cvhookem63 Fujikura Ventus Experience ETXClubWRX Posts: 4,703 ClubWRX
    lopey986 wrote:



    20 min and no rules official showed up? They had to let a group play through, lol




    A rules official was there, JD said he spent the entire time arguing with him til he was "blue in the face".



    Honestly, not a good look for JD. Why so petty? He wasn't in contention and Kang wasn't costing him any money. Call in a rules official and let them decide and move on.




    Maybe he got a taste of the energy and drama surrounding playing with Tiger on Saturday and tried to re-create it himself on Sunday.
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  • mizuno playermizuno player Mizuno player Members Posts: 1,328 ✭✭
    TheInfidel wrote:



    Saying someone cheated is a strong claim.



    Couldn't the other guy claim bias and say he wanted me to make a higher score so he could move up and make more money?




    Do you even play golf? Seriously.



    The game is built on integrity and honesty. Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct. Like everyone else I'd like to see the footage first. But I don't think he'd use that language on twitter unless he was 100%. There doesn't need to be any bias, the drop was either within the bounds of the rules or it was not.




    Ok. I'll bite. Yes big guy I play golf. Can you read? I didn't say there was bias. I Said. Someone could say there was bias.



    The Only thing I said was. Saying someone cheated is a strong thing to say.
  • SkiSchoolProSkiSchoolPro Members Posts: 625 ✭✭
    edited Jul 2, 2018 #45
    lopey986 wrote:

    TheInfidel wrote:



    Saying someone cheated is a strong claim.



    Couldn't the other guy claim bias and say he wanted me to make a higher score so he could move up and make more money?




    Do you even play golf? Seriously.



    The game is built on integrity and honesty. Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct. Like everyone else I'd like to see the footage first. But I don't think he'd use that language on twitter unless he was 100%. There doesn't need to be any bias, the drop was either within the bounds of the rules or it was not.




    And the rules official ruled in Kangs favor, not even sure where the grey area is on this. JD is wrong for calling Kang a cheater when a rules official sided with Kang.


    I believe that the rules require that the player, not his playing competitor, uses his best judgement as to where or if the ball crossed the hazard. Given this (and no video evidence to the contrary) the rules official had no choice but to side with Kang as long as Kang said in my best judgement it crossed the hazard up by the green. Even if Kang was lying, the rules official has to side with him when it is a he said he said situation. At least that's my take on it.
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  • Frankensteins MonsterFrankensteins Monster Members Posts: 6,680 ✭✭
    Where Kang's ball went in even a slight draw has it going in where he dropped. No chance in **** Dahmen can see that from the angle where he would have been standing. He was on a completely different angle.
  • TheInfidelTheInfidel Gotta let the Big Dog eat.... Members Posts: 1,432 ✭✭

    TheInfidel wrote:



    Saying someone cheated is a strong claim.



    Couldn't the other guy claim bias and say he wanted me to make a higher score so he could move up and make more money?




    Do you even play golf? Seriously.



    The game is built on integrity and honesty. Sounds to me like a run of the mill cheat if JD is correct. Like everyone else I'd like to see the footage first. But I don't think he'd use that language on twitter unless he was 100%. There doesn't need to be any bias, the drop was either within the bounds of the rules or it was not.




    Ok. I'll bite. Yes big guy I play golf. Can you read? I didn't say there was bias. I Said. Someone could say there was bias.



    The Only thing I said was. Saying someone cheated is a strong thing to say.




    Totally agree - calling someone out as a cheater is a big claim, and one which shouldn't be made lightly. As a result, I have assumed (and I could 100% be wrong) that JD is confident about his assertion before he argues with a rules official for long enough to have to let a group through, or to call someone out on twitter.



    The point I was making off the back of your comment is that I think it's wrong to assume that his motive was ranking/$$$ driven. That's not really something you see in pro golfers.



    It's easy to type up a comment looking at shot tracker, but there has to be some stock in the guy that was standing maybe 30 yards from the player who struck the ball.



    I think we'd both like to see some footage for the sake of the debate, but I can't find any.

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  • jeromekjeromek Members Posts: 57 ✭✭
    I can understand a difference in opinion in terms of where the ball went in. But to call someone a cheater on twitter, after you lost the dispute with the rules official, and after you signed the scorecard, is just a bad look. You can say, we disagreed on the drop, but calling someone a cheater is disrespectful.
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  • eagle1997eagle1997 Members Posts: 18,062 ✭✭
    just a guess: from 25 yards away, the red line is what JD thought he saw. yellow line is what actually happened. from his angle, he believed that SK was cheating... but it may not have been accurate.



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  • farmerfarmer Members Posts: 7,849 ✭✭
    edited Jul 2, 2018 #50
    It's always a judgement call on where a ball crosses the line, particularly from a couple of hundred yards away. Players have to use their best estimate. Unless Dahmen raced over to get behind Kang, he had no angle from which to judge. Players need to protect the field, but to argue endlessly after the rules official made his call is just ridiculous.
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 26,381 ✭✭
    He cheated, I tells ya!





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  • SkiSchoolProSkiSchoolPro Members Posts: 625 ✭✭
    eagle1997 wrote:


    just a guess: from 25 yards away, the red line is what JD thought he saw. yellow line is what actually happened. from his angle, he believed that SK was cheating... but it may not have been accurate.



    flight_path.jpg


    Great PIc...not exactly sure where the hazard line is, but your yellow line does depict a possible senario (where the ball started ~20 yards right of the green and ended ~20 yards left). My guess is that JD was 100% sure the ball did not cross and that it is 80% likely he is right.
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  • eagle1997eagle1997 Members Posts: 18,062 ✭✭
    farmer wrote:


    It's always a judgement call on where a ball crosses the line, particularly from a couple of hundred yards away. Players have to use their best estimate. Unless Dahmen raced over to get behind Kang, he had no angle from which to judge. Players need to protect the field, but to argue endlessly after the rules official made his call is just ridiculous.




    i don't mind the arguing, he's protecting the field. i don't like the fact that he signed the card and then went to twitter to explicitly say that sung kang was a cheater. odds on JD issuing an social media apology within the next 48 hours?
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  • hlcahlca Members Posts: 485 ✭✭
    He's the golf version of Permit Patty.
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  • ShortStickShortStick Members Posts: 42 ✭✭
    Does JD's comment about the ball not crossing the hazard imply a fade and not a draw? If the ball was moving left to right, then the point of entry would be way back unless it carried the hazard and bounced back in off the bank. Either way it is the player who has the best view and decides.
  • sekrahsekrah Members Posts: 853 ✭✭
    Kang cheating might have kept Tiger out of the Bridgestone unless he goes Top 10 at the Open.
  • TLUBulldogGolfTLUBulldogGolf Sasquatch Members Posts: 2,415 ✭✭
    gvogel wrote:



    Good to see someone call out another player if they feel they are breaking the rules. Don't see how it could go back and forth for so long though.



    Also let's be real that hat was awful...




    I like the hat - it does a great job of protecting the face. Where can I get one?




    Not sure but I hear you get a free bowl of soup with it.
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  • NevinWNevinW Las VegasClubWRX Posts: 1,113 ClubWRX
    He'll live to regret that tweet. Accusing someone of cheating is a dangerous thing. All of these "where did it cross the water hazard line" drops are endlessly debatable even with video because of the camera angles.
  • PuttLeftHitRightPuttLeftHitRight Members Posts: 2,261 ✭✭
    eagle1997 wrote:


    just a guess: from 25 yards away, the red line is what JD thought he saw. yellow line is what actually happened. from his angle, he believed that SK was cheating... but it may not have been accurate.



    flight_path.jpg




    I think JD is saying he did not hit the ball that far. It draw as your yellow line suggests, but didn't carry far enough to get up by the green.
  • JaNelson38JaNelson38 Members Posts: 2,641 ✭✭
    edited Jul 2, 2018 #60
    farmer wrote:


    It's always a judgement call on where a ball crosses the line, particularly from a couple of hundred yards away. Players have to use their best estimate. Unless Dahmen raced over to get behind Kang, he had no angle from which to judge. Players need to protect the field, but to argue endlessly after the rules official made his call is just ridiculous.




    Joel said that the ball did not cross the hazard...he doesnt need to be directly behind Kang to see that. In fact, having an angle more to the side probably gives him a decent view of that. Based on the shape of the hole from shot tracker, and where Kang's shot went according to shot tracker, the ball not crossing the hazard vs. crossing the hazard is probably a big deal. Kang almost certainly wouldnt be able to save par if he wasnt able to say the ball crossed the hazard so he can take the ball back as far as he wanted to give himself an angle for his 4th shot.



    Edit: that being said, if Joel is adamant that Kang broke the rules, then dont sign his card. Make the rules official do it then, as he said would have happened. Dont stand on principle on Twitter by calling a guy a cheater after you've signed his card. His story would have more to stand on had he refused to sign Kang's card.
  • FergusonFerguson Members Posts: 4,674 ✭✭
    jonsnow wrote:

    bscinstnct wrote:


    giphy.gif




    Are they playing Duck, Duck, Rangoon?






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