Joel Dahmen accuses Kang of cheating

[Darth_Blader]

There’s a guy on FB who says he was running the Shotlink on the hole and that he, three marshals and JD all saw it the same way, but the official took Kang’s word.

 

Apparently Kang said that he was 95% sure of where it crossed until the official told him he needed to be 100% sure or drop farther back, and miraculously, he was then 100% sure.

 

I have no issue with him being called out on this. These drops where the player takes an extra 100+ yards happen all the time and they’re bs. I’d love for guys to be a little less sure they can do it without consequences.

 

Imagine, for a moment, that you were a young pro and went over to Korea 6 years ago to play on their tour. A rules controversy erupts in their national open. You have a conversation with the RO that goes something like this:

 

그 위치에 대해 얼마나 확신하십니까??

 

나는 95 퍼센트 확신한다!

 

100 퍼센트 확실해야합니다!!!!

 

그럼 나는 100 % 확신합니다!!!!!

 

(my point is you may be reading too much into what could be an ESL issue).

 

This post makes no sense. The rules of golf regarding a drop on a hazard should not be impacted by language barrier between a player and an official.

 

That post is..." About as useful as a poopy flavored lolli-pop!"

[Ferguson]

In regard to some of these posts:

 

 

"Come on! I've seen better runs in my shorts!"

[IcemanYVR]

Here's the exchange from the guy running shotlink...

[Ignatius Reilly]

So Dahmen was bold enough to label Kang a cheat, but not bold enough to refuse to sign the scorecard? Is there anyone in this thread that would voluntarily sign a scorecard for someone you believed cheated?

 

Kudos to Kang's team for taking the high road and making a brief, nondescript response. No way would I have responded like that after having my integrity questioned. I have no problem with Dahmen or anyone else protecting the field, but I think he handled it poorly.

Dahmen said on twitter the rules official will sign if he doesnt and that he would just be delaying the tournament even further.

 

That's what he said, but didn't their group tee off an hour and a half before the final group?

 

Plenty of time to get the RO to sign without affecting anything.

 

And since when did a Tour Pro worry about pace of play??

 

Anyways, it's really hard to get behind a guy who put his signature on a document, certifying it was the correct score and then says "it wasn't correct".

 

Try doing that with a contract.

 

Just thinking about a guy who would do that clarifies whose word I would trust.

[jonsnow]

In regard to some of these posts:

 

 

"Come on! I've seen better runs in my shorts!"

 

"It's like watching a bunch of retards trying to hump a doorknob!"

[Albatross85]

So Dahmen was bold enough to label Kang a cheat, but not bold enough to refuse to sign the scorecard? Is there anyone in this thread that would voluntarily sign a scorecard for someone you believed cheated?

 

Kudos to Kang's team for taking the high road and making a brief, nondescript response. No way would I have responded like that after having my integrity questioned. I have no problem with Dahmen or anyone else protecting the field, but I think he handled it poorly.

Dahmen said on twitter the rules official will sign if he doesnt and that he would just be delaying the tournament even further.

 

That's what he said, but didn't their group tee off an hour and a half before the final group?

 

Plenty of time to get the RO to sign without affecting anything.

 

And since when did a Tour Pro worry about pace of play??

 

Anyways, it's really hard to get behind a guy who put his signature on a document, certifying it was the correct score and then says "it wasn't correct".

 

Try doing that with a contract.

 

Just thinking about a guy who would do that clarifies whose word I would trust.

You dont make any sense. Yes it was the correct score, bc the rules official told Kang it was okay to drop there. The drop was incorrect, the score was not in question. Either way, its of no relevance to me. Clearly you have deeper seeded issues around paper documents...

[sui generis]

Anyone who manages his life via Twitter is a complete idiot. Twitter is for the immature and clueless.

[mosesgolf]

Good to see someone call out another player if they feel they are breaking the rules. Don't see how it could go back and forth for so long though.

 

Also let's be real that hat was awful...

Not a great fashion statement but Joel is a testicular cancer survivor who is likely wearing it for protection reasons.

 

He still had the balls to call out Kang.

 

Sounds like he got a little testy. :D

[Rangeballz]

Good to see someone call out another player if they feel they are breaking the rules. Don't see how it could go back and forth for so long though.

 

Also let's be real that hat was awful...

Not a great fashion statement but Joel is a testicular cancer survivor who is likely wearing it for protection reasons.

 

He still had the balls to call out Kang.

 

Sounds like he got a little testy. :D

 

Well played, sir.

[the bishop]

Good to see someone call out another player if they feel they are breaking the rules. Don't see how it could go back and forth for so long though.

 

Also let's be real that hat was awful...

Not a great fashion statement but Joel is a testicular cancer survivor who is likely wearing it for protection reasons.

 

He still had the balls to call out Kang.

 

Sounds like he got a little testy. :D

 

Well played, sir.

There's bound to be a vas deferens of opinions on this.

[Finbarr Saunders]

Even when it is Tiger and caught on camera.....Sawgrass a couple of years ago.....

 

[PuttLeftHitRight]

Mr. Klock is saying it did not draw, but that Kang hit it straight into the hazard. So he should have dropped back near where the shot was played from.

Michael Klock‏ @mklock7 28m28 minutes ago

 

 

More

Replying to @bobyosai

 

Sure was. Here are my SHOTLink points.. Red “4” is where Kang got his drop aka claims his ball came back in before going back OB again. It went straight into the weeds/creek.

[Jarlaxle]

Even when it is Tiger and caught on camera.....Sawgrass a couple of years ago.....

 

[media=]

[/media]

Wow, had heard about that but never saw the video, that's pretty blatant, much worse than the drop Tiger took at 15 that people still bring up.

 

As to the issue at hand, I don't have a problem with how JD handled any of it. First off, it's not like he went and sought out a reporter to throw Kang under the bus. He was asked a direct question on Twitter later after the round and he told the truth. As to why he signed the scorecard instead of refusing to, my guess is he felt the rules had been applied and it would make no difference if he signed it but also wasn't going to defend the guy when he was asked what happened. Lastly, I would suspect he is getting more positive feedback than negative feedback from his fellow pros. Admittedly, I have no basis for that last but when you look at the diagram of the hole/shotlink its pretty clear Kang tried to hit a shot over the hazard (not a draw around it) and it didn't carry so probably should have dropped about 30 yards in front of where he hit and instead dropped it 200 yards closer... If I was playing a casual round and someone tried that it would piss me off, much less when you are talking about the stakes these guys are playing for.

[aliikane]

With all the money these guys are playing for, they should have a rules official with every group.

[troublelove]

Bad day when you have to let Ben Crane play through

[SkiSchoolPro]

Bad day when you have to let Ben Crane play through

Too true!

[eagle1997]

when you look at the diagram of the hole/shotlink its pretty clear Kang tried to hit a shot over the hazard (not a draw around it) and it didn't carry

 

no, it is not clear. if you extend out his landing point on a straight line, he's missing left of that green. not ideal. shot tracker always shows a straight line between data points, and the finishing spot in the hazard was likely estimated as well.

 

imho, the ideal second shot -with the greatest margin of error- is to draw it in.

 

 

image via drudersh earlier in this thread:

 

 

 

 

again, i have no idea what exactly happened either, but to say "its pretty clear" when it comes to this situation is simply not true.

[bscinstnct]

Even when it is Tiger and caught on camera.....Sawgrass a couple of years ago.....

 

[media=]

[/media]

Wow, had heard about that but never saw the video, that's pretty blatant, much worse than the drop Tiger took at 15 that people still bring up.

 

As to the issue at hand, I don't have a problem with how JD handled any of it. First off, it's not like he went and sought out a reporter to throw Kang under the bus. He was asked a direct question on Twitter later after the round and he told the truth. As to why he signed the scorecard instead of refusing to, my guess is he felt the rules had been applied and it would make no difference if he signed it but also wasn't going to defend the guy when he was asked what happened. Lastly, I would suspect he is getting more positive feedback than negative feedback from his fellow pros. Admittedly, I have no basis for that last but when you look at the diagram of the hole/shotlink its pretty clear Kang tried to hit a shot over the hazard (not a draw around it) and it didn't carry so probably should have dropped about 30 yards in front of where he hit and instead dropped it 200 yards closer... If I was playing a casual round and someone tried that it would piss me off, much less when you are talking about the stakes these guys are playing for.

 

 

First, no player in the history of the game has had more scrutiny of every shot they have ever hit than TW. He has every shot televised and there are massive galleries on all his shots. So, to have a couple of these incidents in a lifetime of golf actually speaks to how closely he follows the rules. Meantime, there are hundreds of other players with basically no one watching and I imagine there is quite a bit more "massaging" of the rules as far as they go.

 

Second, regarding that drop,

 

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/9268417/2013-players-championship-tiger-woods-drop-14th-deemed-legit-pga-tour

 

The only way to know where the ball crossed the hazard line is to have seen it from the tee. Woods consulted with playing competitor Casey Wittenberg and Wittenberg's caddie/coach, Adam Schriber, to determine where to drop.

"I saw it perfectly from the tee," Wittenberg said. "I told him exactly where I thought it crossed, and we all agreed. ... I told him I thought it crossed on the corner of the bunker right where he took his drop, and it's all good."

Wittenberg was questioned several times about the drop and the ball flight, which he said was hooking into the water.

"Yes, for sure, there is no doubt, guys," he said. "The ball crossed where he dropped."

Mark Russell, the PGA Tour's vice president of competitions and a rules official who was involved in a recent dispute involving a Woods drop at the Masters, said his staff reviewed the situation and said, ultimately, you have to go with the player, his caddie and the other players in the group.

"They both saw it," Russell said of Woods and Wittenberg. "They're back there with a television commentator [NBC's Mark Rolfing], who basically agreed with them. He said he hit a high hook. The problem is on television, that area looked the same, and they thought he dropped up there where it splashed. He dropped it 60 yards back of that. The players had the view of it."

[Drudersh]

I just want to be sure I've got this right....

 

JD says it never crossed the hazard line near the green

Guy working the hole tasked with shot tracker says the same

Rules officials seem to agree with both of the above

Only guy saying it crossed the line by the green is Kang

Kang says he is 95% sure, then goes to 100% when told he needs to be 100% to get the drop he's asking for

 

Am I missing anything?

[AEK]

ggdroptips.com

[Pleasedwith3putts]

I just want to be sure I've got this right....

 

JD says it never crossed the hazard line near the green

Guy working the hole tasked with shot tracker says the same

Rules officials seem to agree with both of the above

Only guy saying it crossed the line by the green is Kang

Kang says he is 95% sure, then goes to 100% when told he needs to be 100% to get the drop he's asking for

 

Am I missing anything?

 

Case for the prosecution rests......

[Socrates]

Waded through most of this. Sounds like a couple of guys that need to go on a jet flight with Ernie Els.

[MtlJeff]

I just want to be sure I've got this right....

 

JD says it never crossed the hazard line near the green

Guy working the hole tasked with shot tracker says the same

Rules officials seem to agree with both of the above

Only guy saying it crossed the line by the green is Kang

Kang says he is 95% sure, then goes to 100% when told he needs to be 100% to get the drop he's asking for

 

Am I missing anything?

 

Rules officials said they interviewed Marshalls and others there too. I didn't read that the rules officials said they didn't believe the story. I think that only happens to Dustin Johnson at US opens

[drbonesvt]

On xm radio , had a marshal from hole #10, guy was running shot link and had binoculars on the ball and said it never crossed the fairway

[cubanstogie]

the big difference Tiger haters don't mention is his playing partner bought off on it where as Kangs did not. Had Wittenberg said it didn't cross I would guess and obviously its a guess that Tiger would have played it farther back.

[eagle1997]

[SkiSchoolPro]

the big difference Tiger haters don't mention is his playing partner bought off on it where as Kangs did not. Had Wittenberg said it didn't cross I would guess and obviously its a guess that Tiger would have played it farther back.

Agreed. While Jonny Z makes some good points and my initial take watching the live coverage was that it didn't cover much of the hazard, the ball does seem to hook in the video, the contact appears cleaner than the announcer said and the camera angles are not perfect.

[ClintDagger]

the big difference Tiger haters don't mention is his playing partner bought off on it where as Kangs did not. Had Wittenberg said it didn't cross I would guess and obviously its a guess that Tiger would have played it farther back.

Agreed. While Jonny Z makes some good points and my initial take watching the live coverage was that it didn't cover much of the hazard, the ball does seem to hook in the video, the contact appears cleaner than the announcer said and the camera angles are not perfect.

Looks to me like Tiger turned away & didn’t even watch so maybe he relied on others to determine the drop? Either way, my guess is Tiger took a bad drop there but not intentionally so.

[the bishop]

the big difference Tiger haters don't mention is his playing partner bought off on it where as Kangs did not. Had Wittenberg said it didn't cross I would guess and obviously its a guess that Tiger would have played it farther back.

Tiger can do whatever he wants!

[sui generis]

I just want to be sure I've got this right....

 

JD says it never crossed the hazard line near the green

Guy working the hole tasked with shot tracker says the same

Rules officials seem to agree with both of the above

Only guy saying it crossed the line by the green is Kang

Kang says he is 95% sure, then goes to 100% when told he needs to be 100% to get the drop he's asking for

 

Am I missing anything?

 

Rules officials said they interviewed Marshalls and others there too. I didn't read that the rules officials said they didn't believe the story. I think that only happens to Dustin Johnson at US opens

 

Let's get something straight about that event. Dustin Johnson misled the referee. When asked if he had grounded his club he replied that he had not. The referee ruled based on the incorrect information furnished by the player. Television replay show that he had clearly grounded the club.