Korn Ferry Tour Qualifying Scores- Wow

At the Korn Ferry Qualifying in my area (2 sites) the winning scores were -11 and -8 .

If you shot a 69, (-3) you were T30. Several former PGA tour pros didn't even come close to qualifying.

Dear God, are golfers really THIS good these days? It is amazing to me how a golfer not even good enough to play KF full time is able to show a 61 in a high-pressure event. At this rate we could see sub-60 scores all the time in Monday qualifiers . These super low rounds usually happen once or twice in a golfer's lifetime, when everything goes perfect during the round.

Just 5-10 years ago, a 69 or 70 was good enough to get into sectional US open in my area. Looking at these scores, there is no way my game would stand a chance (and im near scratch).

The two courses where qualifying was held are not easy by any means. One is tree-lined, narrow and all but one par 3 is over 200 yards, and there are Par 5s over 600.

I mean, imagine coming down 18th hole at -2 or -3, thinking you have a shot to get in, but only to realize you are a full 8 shots behind the pace.

How much can be attributed to equipment/length making these course "obsolete" from a scoring perspective vs. the depth of talent really being that much better?

Setup and conditions heavily factor into scoring, plus they all go out knowing they have to shoot low in order to make it so most play super aggressively.

It just shows how good the pros really are, and even more how good the best in the world really are.

I love telling this story about the time I played a full 18 with one of our club pros trying to go legit pro. He is an outstanding golfer. Regularly shot in the mid 60 to low 60's from the tips at our course. Only a couple of the college guys who played there (1 holding the course record) and Spencer Levin when he would visit town were better. Yet whenever he would try to qualify he struggled to break par. Its more than just having the skills to play, you need something extra to compete.

I don't think the courses play the same. Pretty much every golfer now can hit 300+ if they need to.

Yep, some golfers are that much better. But keep in mind, golf skill is one aspect, functioning comfortably under the pressures of a tournament is entirely another. Some people are totally unaware they flourish under heavy pressures. Others fear having to step up to big challenges that were never imagined, and still others collapse under the strain of make it or break it.

I watched a +2 guy that was club champion multiple years totally collapse under the pressures of a 5k money game and the 5k was only half his.

Playing in a qualifying tournament one must go in knowing what use to be can no longer be, if qualifying means something. Qualifying course conditions are completely different than many people experience. It reminds me of when I founded my first company back in "80", having lots of employees and families around the country relying on me to make sure the company prospers and payroll is there as promised - let me tell you about a boat load of pressure 24/7. Every day I had to make sure new business was acquired, or eventually let down everyone and watch the business collapse; that was NOT going to happen. It's simple, you step up your game to meet greater challenges or stay home and watch others make it happen.

Meanwhile on the PGA Tour this week, the winner of the Monday qualifier is a golfer ranked #77 in the world.

So the winner of the KF event that week, Chris Kirk (average length hitter), was -26. It was held at the King and Bear course at World Golf Hall of Fame. I believe its 7300 from the tips. (if you havent played it I highly recommend it, as gary player said "every golfer should go")

I have played it several times and I can tell you with absolute certainty that no average golfer or even single-digit handicap player would consider it an easy course. Water, waste bunkers everywhere, tons of forced carry, fast greens, some elevation changes (yes even in fl).

These scores are absurd.

I am suggesting that the talent on the KF is nearly equal to that on the PGA tour.

Anyone at the KF level is insanely good.

They are conservatively among the top 500 golfers in the world. So they are part of the top 0.0005% or so at what they do. Literally.

Even guys on the fringe of making the KF Tour are probably 10 levels better than the average person who keeps a + handicap at their home course.

There's just a massive gap between "scratch" and able to compete on the KF Tour. Most of the guys out there were probably "scratch" at age 15 or earlier.

I do think that as the collective consciousness about what is possible in golf grows, and as the collective understanding of what it takes to be great and to improve grows, we see the average level of play rise.

The same way skateboarders were doing 360s in the 1980s, and now they are doing a 1260! The mindset about what is considered average/attainable and what is possible continues to be pushed higher. And players rise with the tide.

I attended the (then) Nationwide Tour Soboba Classic at Soboba CC in San Jacinto, CA back in 2010. At the time it was the richest purse on the Nationwide Tour at $1M. Keegan Bradley, Jhonattan Vegas, Tommy Gainey and I think Gary Woodland were in the field among others (eventually won by Steven Bowditch). Its not a terribly difficult course (I've played it several times) so they did everything they could to try and toughen the place up. Landing areas were narrowed to pencil thin areas - 10-15 yds wide in places. It didn't matter. They just peppered the landing areas anyway. It was crazy. You could see where the areas on some players were holding them back from the PGA Tour. Gainey for example was having trouble controlling his wedge distance from about 100 yds in (I followed him for a while). But where that means bogey for the average guy for him it meant pars on obvious birdie holes. But still the level of talent on display was staggering.

Via GolfWorld: "Even Vijay Singh wasn’t guaranteed a spot in this week’s Korn Ferry event, eventually withdrawing after it appeared likely he would have to Monday qualify. Yes, this is the same Vijay Singh who has won three majors and earned more money on a golf course than all but three people in history."

Why does it take such a low number? You have 150 pros that are in top 500 or so in the world playing a one day shootout. It’s unreasonable to think that 4 of them will not shoot 64 or better unless there are some mitigating circumstances- weather, etc.

“I mean, imagine coming down 18th hole at -2 or -3, thinking you have a shot to get in, but only to realize you are a full 8 shots behind the pace.”

Not one player in that field was 3 under on the last hole and thinking they had a chance. Every single guy knew on the first tee that 3 under was worthless.

The purses at the Big Show are so lucrative and the window is much smaller than in the past of course young players are going to maximize to the max. So much talent out there these days.

i noticed from my experience that you need shoot -5 or -6 to think that you have a solid chance of advancing. unless conditions are rough, it is true that -1 or -2 doesn't cut it anymore. types of rounds like -5 or -6 doesn't just involve skills. there are a lot of good players and you need a little bit of luck as well.

this is when i realized that i need to hang it up and start looking for a job.

this is true. some players actually play better in tournaments but some players just can't play to save their life.

King and Bear was soft that week and almost all the par 5s were down wind. It was a pitch and putt week out there.

Yes they are very good. Qualifiers are not set up to be insanely hard either.

Same here- looking at these scores, it is obvious that competitive golf for me is over. But I would beg to differ about the luck.. making 11 birdies in one round is 100% skill. Like Hogan said "piss on luck". to shoot that low, you are nearly knocking down every flag. I looked up the guy who shot that score, James Nicholas. Turns out he was pre-med at Yale, played on the football team, then decided to play golf full time. Nearly every man in his family either played in the NFL or were surgeons. He also has a Instagram model gf. Check out his IG. Dude living his best life doesnt even describe it. Looks like he also has a sponsor exemption into this week's Rocket Mortgage in Detroit.

They used a course that I played in league matches at one year for the Nashville Open. We had our league on Tuesday afternoons. Course was no different than normal on that Tuesday. Meaning, they didn't pinch fairways or double cut greens. They may have played the tees back but I doubt they played the hole locations any different than normal for a Monday. That course had quadrants and it was a very rare day that the hole was not cut in nearly the same spot on a given day of the week. Kind of frustrating actually because you didn't get much variety week to week if you played on a certain day of the week.

I challenge them to play this past API's conditions.

i appreciate your insight. I looked up james Nicholas and read an article on him about his journey to qualifying. https://www.golfchannel.com/news/whos-james-nicholas-pre-med-yale-grad-who-just-fired-61-thats-who

Yale, pre med, qualifier, good looking, etc. I didn't look up his girlfriend because I don't need a fit of jealousy hanging over me today.

but I didn't refer to luck as, "you qualify because you are lucky". I meant that a lot of these players can shoot under par anytime of the day. but to shoot -4 or -6 and to make the qualifier requires a little bit of luck amongst great players.

Skill aside, everyone needs some luck to keep the round flowing. I've played in Pro-Ams, and with Pros home from tour (neighbors). A few years back my lowest was 68, 4 under. Dedicated Pros often play better under Tournament conditions as opposed to casual play at home. I watched a -1 buddy beat a +5 tour player even up. Usually luck is timely hole outs and making a few putts that might not otherwise happen.

There are guys on KFT that are better than some of the players who have their PGA tour card. Whenever I talk with an aspiring Instagram pro or a local past college local tour player trying to make the big time, I ask them how many times have you shot 65 or lower? If they know the answer they are not good enough to make it.

Regarding luck; the strokes gained stuff bears out that you need a certain amount of luck. SG shows that to win a four day tournament, much less a one day event, it usually comes down to who has the most SG-Putting. Who sinks that/those 20-30-40 footers that statistically should not go in. A handful of those and your SG-Putting shoots through the roof provided you are just average with everything else. Sinking those long putts is luck. Ergo, it often comes down to luck - after you put yourself in position with all the other aspects of the game.

My local course was used for a number of years for the Phoenix Open pre-qualifier along with 3 other local tracks including Papago. Usually these 18 hole shootouts take 4-6 guys from around 55-70 players. They then go to the Monday qualifier with 60 or so PGA tour players for 2 or 3 spots into the Phoenix Open. It is very rare for a guy to play in a pre qualifier then qualify on tournament Monday. On my home course -4 is usually good enough to get in but someone always shoots 64 or better which is my personal best on this course (+2 HCP). If you think of these things as job applications or applications to get into med school or law school you can understand how competitive things are. The USGA has 40-50 open spots every year and they get over 8000 entries. I started to check and guys that have to go thru local qualifying rarely have more than 2 who make the cut. So it boils down to a one in 5000- 15000 chance. But aren't a lot of elite professions like this? They just have different criteria.

One thing that is great about golf qualifiers is they are immediate snap shots of pure competition. Shoot low enough or go home.

The easiest pin positions i have ever seen on my home course was when they had Web.com qualifying there a few years ago. Every pin was near the middle on a relatively flat section of the green. I think that is part of the reason the scores are so low.

Reminds me of the point when Tiger and Phil were #1 and #2 in the world, and there was a wider difference between Tiger and Phil, then between Phil and ~200 ranked guy in the world.

Theres a lot more guys out there with 61's in their bag, its just pulling it out at the right time. Take out the stars, I think its something like 75% of the PGA tour makes 75% of their earnings in a 3-4 week stretch. Hopefully someone else isn't as hot as you that week, hopefully its a big purse. Then it almost becomes a closed shop. You get into WGC and the TOC, that's guaranteed money.

Every Monday is like that. Must be an interesting mental approach for those guys, you know there's only a couple of spots open and there will be guys who go really low so you have no choice but to go for it. Makes you appreciate the guys that would get through over and over again, like Patrick Reed, TJ Vogel and Chip McDaniel.

What track was that? Papago? I remember a buddy of mine always trying to qualify for it and I never saw him break par and would just get run over at McCormick.