Saw some new Callaway Woods last night (The Epic Thread)

[SwingMan]

To the lucky dogs that have already had a chance to see/test: any info on the stock shafts?

 

I think a HZRDOUS and Rogue Silver were mentioned somewhere...

[ebbowron]

I have a black HAZRDUS 6.5 in my SZ and it is just a sick setup. Longer than my DBD 816 Speeder 757 TS setup. This is the first shaft I have really liked outside of my old school 757s

[khoyng82]

I had a XR16 Pro driver fitting this past weekend and the Callaway rep asked if I was in a rush to get a driver? Told him no, so he went back to his truck and brought out the two Epic drivers (Epic GBB and the Epic SZ). He described the new "game changing" technology of the two reinforcing pins behind the clubface. The pins are supposed to prevent face deflection and therefore increase ball speed by 2 mph. "Independent" test have confirmed this increase against the M1/M2 and the 917 drivers.

 

As for the testing. I didn't have a launch monitor for the outdoor fitting but ball dd seem to jumped off the face a little quicker with the Epic line compared to the XR16 Pro. However, the balls held their line significantly better with the XR16 Pro compared to the Epic heads. Could be a shaft issue but I tried a handful of shafts in all three heads. In the looks department, I think I still like the XR16 Pro better than the Epic driver heads. To end, I'll be getting the XR16 Pro driver (will be significantly cheaper than the Epics as well) but can see guys looking for distance lean towards the Epic heads.

 

FYI, the Callaway rep did mention how they will not be discontinuing the XR16 line of heads until summer of 2017.

[Frohlich]

I am sorry but 2 MPH is not enough distance (for me) to turn it into an advantage on the course and a better score on the scorecard. I understand wanting more distance off the tee but I would take a more accurate driver 100% of the time over gaining 5 yards on the course. Doesn't mean it isn't fun to talk about or that it won't be a great driver. I hate to be rational on a board filled with golf nuts like me but I had to try :wave:

[Noke]

Callaway is playing us. Not dissimilar to when a certain presidential candidate says that he/she will run on a certain party ticket because that particular electorate will believe anything you tell them. Golfers want more yards and when presented with 'game changing' technology, BOOM- placebo effect extra 5-10 yards on the monitor. Season-long averages are what should matter, but I understand the fitter doesn't have access to that data at the fitting.

 

 

[ZBUCK]

It has driver technology that uses bars to stabilize the top crown and sole of the driver to deliver more energy back to the face, and create an insane amount of ball speed. Tony Finau apparently gained 20 yards of carry distance testing it last week.

 

And yet how much do you want to bet that Finau's driving distance doesn't change more than 3-5 yards for the upcoming season. Dustin Johnson's driving dropped 3 yards in 2016 from 2015. It went up from 2014 to 2015. By everyone's account on this site and everywhere else the M1/M2 lineup is infinitely superior to the R15/Aeroburner lineup. Why the drop off? Especially considering the level that DJ raised his game to in 2016? All these guys have been optimized for quite some time. The mild fluctuation from year to year has NOTHING to do with the driver head they are using and EVERYTHING to do with what they ate for breakfast, how their body is doing (see Jason Day's numbers), shaft characteristics, and most importantly strike.

 

We have every right to get excited about the new Epic lineup from Callaway. I am. It's a new club, with new looks, feel, and design. These genuinely are things to get pumped for. But we need to pump the breaks on what the actual benefits of these new clubs really do for us. Someone else put it very well in this thread when they said that basically the only way to find more distance is to optimize your launch conditions. Tour pros have done so for quite a while which is why they don't gain distance by switching from one model to another.

 

I played the JPX 850 for the past 18 months but couldn't stand the sound/feel and wasn't fond of the blue. But accuracy and distance were too good. The JPX 900 is infinitely better sounding and feeling and the blue isn't as annoying as it is a matte finish and I now LOVE it. Distance is about the same as the 850. Shocking.

 

I think the biggest reason DJ dropped a few yards is because he started playing a cut instead of a draw. I agree with you though - I think at their level, they can hit any driver head from the past 5 years within 3-5 yards of each other and it definitely comes down to how they're feeling on any given day.

[gunmetal]

It has driver technology that uses bars to stabilize the top crown and sole of the driver to deliver more energy back to the face, and create an insane amount of ball speed. Tony Finau apparently gained 20 yards of carry distance testing it last week.

 

And yet how much do you want to bet that Finau's driving distance doesn't change more than 3-5 yards for the upcoming season. Dustin Johnson's driving dropped 3 yards in 2016 from 2015. It went up from 2014 to 2015. By everyone's account on this site and everywhere else the M1/M2 lineup is infinitely superior to the R15/Aeroburner lineup. Why the drop off? Especially considering the level that DJ raised his game to in 2016? All these guys have been optimized for quite some time. The mild fluctuation from year to year has NOTHING to do with the driver head they are using and EVERYTHING to do with what they ate for breakfast, how their body is doing (see Jason Day's numbers), shaft characteristics, and most importantly strike.

 

We have every right to get excited about the new Epic lineup from Callaway. I am. It's a new club, with new looks, feel, and design. These genuinely are things to get pumped for. But we need to pump the breaks on what the actual benefits of these new clubs really do for us. Someone else put it very well in this thread when they said that basically the only way to find more distance is to optimize your launch conditions. Tour pros have done so for quite a while which is why they don't gain distance by switching from one model to another.

 

I played the JPX 850 for the past 18 months but couldn't stand the sound/feel and wasn't fond of the blue. But accuracy and distance were too good. The JPX 900 is infinitely better sounding and feeling and the blue isn't as annoying as it is a matte finish and I now LOVE it. Distance is about the same as the 850. Shocking.

 

I think the biggest reason DJ dropped a few yards is because he started playing a cut instead of a draw. I agree with you though - I think at their level, they can hit any driver head from the past 5 years within 3-5 yards of each other and it definitely comes down to how they're feeling on any given day.

 

Good call. That should be added to what influences driver distances. I remember after Kaymer won the PGA and subsequently struggled at Augusta he changed his swing to hit a draw so he could be more competitive at Augusta. The results were bad, but I'm sure things like that affect driver distance more than moving from R9 to R11 or 915 to 917.

[scratchswinger]

I heard they are using the old Zevo (Sean Toulon company) face technology.... Or at least portions of it.

 

http://ktowngolf.ownspot.com/library/ecomm/product_view.asp?prod_id=9239&cat_name=DRIVER&cat_list=4806%2C%7CDRIVER

[tacklings2k]

interesting thread

[bcflyguy1]

Took the Great Big Bertha Epic out on the course late yesterday afternoon for 4 holes with my old reliable Diamana Ahina 70x plugged into it , hitting multiple balls from each tee box. Same loft and settings as my current driver (XR16 Pro) and sliding weight neutral. Feels and sounds almost exactly like the BB Fusion, which is an excellent thing. Those who were put off by the triangular shape of BB Fusion will like the Epic's more rounded profile but similar face height at address. While I did notice a distance gain over the XR16 Pro (not going to say how much of a + I saw for obvious reasons), what impressed me even more was how consistent the distances were. In other words, the distance dispersion from longest balls to shortest balls was VERY tight. Left to right dispersion was also very nice, but not a noticeable improvement. Relatively small sample size (20 or so total tee shots), but still found the results to be impressive.

 

One perhaps negative thing I did notice is that the tribal tattoo looking aero ridges near the top line are more visually prominent now that the crown has a glossy finish. That might be off-putting for some; I noticed it but wasn't bothersome.

 

Not everybody is going to have the same reaction to this club or the Epic SZ (which I have not seen or hit yet), but I can say with certainty that the Epic line is deserving of consideration and a test drive.

[erock9174]

Is the Epic line matte crown or gloss ?

[bcflyguy1]

The GBB Epic crown is gloss, not sure about the Epic SZ.

[misplacedtexan83]

He mentioned glossy head right above you.

[khoyng82]

Both heads are glossy with the white callaway alignment <.

[getair23]

I heard they are using the old Zevo (Sean Toulon company) face technology.... Or at least portions of it.

 

http://ktowngolf.ownspot.com/library/ecomm/product_view.asp?prod_id=9239&cat_name=DRIVER&cat_list=4806%2C%7CDRIVER

makes you wonder why they bought Toulon now. Kind of like when Callaway bought Ghinty in the 90's over possible infringements with the Heavenwood, or TM and Adams regarding fairway wood slots. Hopefully Sean still can still make putters moving forward.

[misplacedtexan83]

They just bought them. Who knows maybe he had a hand in development of this line.

 

I'm really looking forward to future putters, etc with Toulon and others on board now.

[getair23]

They just bought them. Who knows maybe he had a hand in development of this line.

 

I'm really looking forward to future putters, etc with Toulon and others on board now.

Im hoping that you are right. Based on the timing it seems like the Epic had to have been in development for a while. Toulon is relatively new. Which is why I'm hoping they didn't find a better way to make a driver then realize they have a problem with patents etc... and the easy solution is to buy the company and all it's proprietary data and equipment.

[niscur24]

Hopefully The new M1 pics speed up photos of the EPIC....

[nmorton]

To the lucky dogs that have already had a chance to see/test: any info on the stock shafts?

 

I think a HZRDOUS and Rogue Silver were mentioned somewhere...

 

It's actually the Rogue Max for the new Epic line, and a made-for non-counterbalanced HZRDOUS shaft. Early looks at the new Odyssey/Toulon prototypes sound killer as well. As a current Memphis player I've been told even better things are to come in the updated Toulon line. The acquisition made sense from a business competitive perspective. Buy it earlier at a cheaper price to infuse some capital and eventually compete in the higher-end putter market against Cameron/Titleist. Odyssey on its own lagged in that segment...where the real money is made.

[Oaks]

Is there any word on David Mills?

[SwingMan]

To the lucky dogs that have already had a chance to see/test: any info on the stock shafts?

 

I think a HZRDOUS and Rogue Silver were mentioned somewhere...

 

It's actually the Rogue Max for the new Epic line, and a made-for non-counterbalanced HZRDOUS shaft. Early looks at the new Odyssey/Toulon prototypes sound killer as well. As a current Memphis player I've been told even better things are to come in the updated Toulon line. The acquisition made sense from a business competitive perspective. Buy it earlier at a cheaper price to infuse some capital and eventually compete in the higher-end putter market against Cameron/Titleist. Odyssey on its own lagged in that segment...where the real money is made.

 

Thx. I wanted someone with knowledge to jump in...

 

Memphis is a sweet stick ... stroked a few in a PGATSS

[TMBob]

They looked great as I saw the two different versions. Simple notes....hot melt ports on the standard line and no hot melt ports on the SZ line. Also, both driver heads at address seem to have way more loft than the stated loft in the head. I saw a 9 degree SZ and a 10.5 Epic.

 

I also saw a new putter with metal bumps in the insert and the Hyper Lite 2.5 bag....loved both and look forward to the new putter in the #7 version.

[TheMoneyShot]

They looked great as I saw the two different versions. Simple notes....hot melt ports on the standard line and no hot melt ports on the SZ line. Also, both driver heads at address seem to have way more loft than the stated loft in the head. I saw a 9 degree SZ and a 10.5 Epic.

 

I also saw a new putter with metal bumps in the insert and the Hyper Lite 2.5 bag....loved both and look forward to the new putter in the #7 version.

 

Did you snap some pics?

[Pure745]

Seriously.. someone has to have pics! The new TM M1 was already leaked (if that's really it), C'MON!! :)

[Dscvrr St Louis]

Callaway reps lose their jobs when they allow pics to be taken!! Happened with 816 Alpha DBD

[Mob]

I am a big Callaway fan and have a bunch of their drivers and 3 woods. That being said, it seems that this desire/belief that we are going to gain significant yardage over a previously fit driver really isn't likely. I have been hearing all of us make these claims over the past 5 years, every time we get a new driver, but the truth is, I am not hitting the ball any farther today, than I was 5 years ago. Because I play the same course 90% of the time, I can recognize the fact that my drives are pretty much in the same area on the course on each hole excluding conditions like temperature, wind, wet fairways, etc. Yes, I am going to try this driver, because I am a wrx'er and it is in our blood, but I am going to try it with a low expectation that it is going to perform significantly better than my 816 DBD, Cobra LTD, or M2 driver when it comes to distance.

[DTown3011]

I am a big Callaway fan and have a bunch of their drivers and 3 woods. That being said, it seems that this desire/belief that we are going to gain significant yardage over a previously fit driver really isn't likely. I have been hearing all of us make these claims over the past 5 years, every time we get a new driver, but the truth is, I am not hitting the ball any farther today, than I was 5 years ago. Because I play the same course 90% of the time, I can recognize the fact that my drives are pretty much in the same area on the course on each hole excluding conditions like temperature, wind, wet fairways, etc. Yes, I am going to try this driver, because I am a wrx'er and it is in our blood, but I am going to try it with a low expectation that it is going to perform significantly better than my 816 DBD, Cobra LTD, or M2 driver when it comes to distance.

 

What are golf companies supposed to say? Our driver isn't any longer/straighter/better than last year but you should buy it anyways?

[scratchswinger]

I feel like everyone has seen or hit this thing but me.

[QuickFeet]

I am a big Callaway fan and have a bunch of their drivers and 3 woods. That being said, it seems that this desire/belief that we are going to gain significant yardage over a previously fit driver really isn't likely. I have been hearing all of us make these claims over the past 5 years, every time we get a new driver, but the truth is, I am not hitting the ball any farther today, than I was 5 years ago. Because I play the same course 90% of the time, I can recognize the fact that my drives are pretty much in the same area on the course on each hole excluding conditions like temperature, wind, wet fairways, etc. Yes, I am going to try this driver, because I am a wrx'er and it is in our blood, but I am going to try it with a low expectation that it is going to perform significantly better than my 816 DBD, Cobra LTD, or M2 driver when it comes to distance.

 

What are golf companies supposed to say? Our driver isn't any longer/straighter/better than last year but you should buy it anyways?

 

LOL..........now what fun would that be?

 

I'm playing a 10 year old driver today. I've hit many drivers that are as good but have not found a better head. Have changed shafts multiple times to give a a slight change in launch or feel but the head still works for me.

[Zach Heusser]

Seriously.. someone has to have pics! The new TM M1 was already leaked (if that's really it), C'MON!! :)

 

No kidding ! Let's see them already