Saw some new Callaway Woods last night (The Epic Thread)

[Dscvrr St Louis]

Hit the SZ version and Fw today and they are both very solid offerings. All stock set up and I was still 5-10 past my gamer with too much spin. Look forward to testing with my shafts and correct swing weight. Wanted to go very straight overall. Both heads look great and the sound is very Fusion-esque!! Seemed much easier to hit than my past Sub zero and even my GBB!! Very stoked to get it on the course.

 

5-10 by your gamer is impressive. Especially with too much spin. Tells me either you didnt fit for your gamer or the new driver is illegal.

 

no, my gamer is usually in the 1.48-1.50 smash with spin in the 2400-2500 range. I hit it well. but ballspeed was higher on Epic SZ, LA was equal, Spin was a bit higher due to stock shaft was a bit weaker than my gamer. By too much spin, for me, it was around 2700...not a ton, but there was a 3-5 mph gain in ballspeed on avg hits. bigger deal was the ESZ was better feel and sound to me, and the driver was noticeably more forgiving and better on mishits. All comparisons were done on trackman with about the same Smash with both drivers.

[Lvanwheeler1]

Hit the SZ version and Fw today and they are both very solid offerings. All stock set up and I was still 5-10 past my gamer with too much spin. Look forward to testing with my shafts and correct swing weight. Wanted to go very straight overall. Both heads look great and the sound is very Fusion-esque!! Seemed much easier to hit than my past Sub zero and even my GBB!! Very stoked to get it on the course.

 

5-10 by your gamer is impressive. Especially with too much spin. Tells me either you didnt fit for your gamer or the new driver is illegal.

 

no, my gamer is usually in the 1.48-1.50 smash with spin in the 2400-2500 range. I hit it well. but ballspeed was higher on Epic SZ, LA was equal, Spin was a bit higher due to stock shaft was a bit weaker than my gamer. By too much spin, for me, it was around 2700...not a ton, but there was a 3-5 mph gain in ballspeed on avg hits. bigger deal was the ESZ was better feel and sound to me, and the driver was noticeably more forgiving and better on mishits. All comparisons were done on trackman with about the same Smash with both drivers.

 

But did you put in any good words for me to go to Carlsbad in December???? Jerk...

[Dscvrr St Louis]

Hit the SZ version and Fw today and they are both very solid offerings. All stock set up and I was still 5-10 past my gamer with too much spin. Look forward to testing with my shafts and correct swing weight. Wanted to go very straight overall. Both heads look great and the sound is very Fusion-esque!! Seemed much easier to hit than my past Sub zero and even my GBB!! Very stoked to get it on the course.

 

5-10 by your gamer is impressive. Especially with too much spin. Tells me either you didnt fit for your gamer or the new driver is illegal.

 

no, my gamer is usually in the 1.48-1.50 smash with spin in the 2400-2500 range. I hit it well. but ballspeed was higher on Epic SZ, LA was equal, Spin was a bit higher due to stock shaft was a bit weaker than my gamer. By too much spin, for me, it was around 2700...not a ton, but there was a 3-5 mph gain in ballspeed on avg hits. bigger deal was the ESZ was better feel and sound to me, and the driver was noticeably more forgiving and better on mishits. All comparisons were done on trackman with about the same Smash with both drivers.

 

But did you put in any good words for me to go to Carlsbad in December???? Jerk...

 

Put alot of good words in....they just took them all out!! :swoon:

[hef63303]

Love it, but golf will still be golf. None of the "game changers" have really changed it.....

 

Calloway is positioning themselves nicely.

 

To be fair, Callaway is the only one that ever actually really did have a "game changer." If you were playing in the mid 90s, you'll remember that the Great Big Bertha added like 25 yards distance to everyone's tee shot overnight. And that was a real 25 yards.

 

I would disagree.

 

TaylorMade - first metal wood, first movable weight, first adjustable sleeve. RBZ fairways. ALL GAME CHANGERS!

While they did not catch on, there were metal woods available in the 1930's.

[ncglfr]

Hit the SZ version and Fw today and they are both very solid offerings. All stock set up and I was still 5-10 past my gamer with too much spin. Look forward to testing with my shafts and correct swing weight. Wanted to go very straight overall. Both heads look great and the sound is very Fusion-esque!! Seemed much easier to hit than my past Sub zero and even my GBB!! Very stoked to get it on the course.

 

5-10 by your gamer is impressive. Especially with too much spin. Tells me either you didnt fit for your gamer or the new driver is illegal.

 

no, my gamer is usually in the 1.48-1.50 smash with spin in the 2400-2500 range. I hit it well. but ballspeed was higher on Epic SZ, LA was equal, Spin was a bit higher due to stock shaft was a bit weaker than my gamer. By too much spin, for me, it was around 2700...not a ton, but there was a 3-5 mph gain in ballspeed on avg hits. bigger deal was the ESZ was better feel and sound to me, and the driver was noticeably more forgiving and better on mishits. All comparisons were done on trackman with about the same Smash with both drivers.

 

I'm confused how smash was about the same with both drivers. Only way that would happen is if your club head speed increased a few miles an hour to go along with the ball speed increases. If we start seeing smash factors in the 1.55 range or something like that, then I think we can attribute that to innovation in the club head.

[Dscvrr St Louis]

Hit the SZ version and Fw today and they are both very solid offerings. All stock set up and I was still 5-10 past my gamer with too much spin. Look forward to testing with my shafts and correct swing weight. Wanted to go very straight overall. Both heads look great and the sound is very Fusion-esque!! Seemed much easier to hit than my past Sub zero and even my GBB!! Very stoked to get it on the course.

 

5-10 by your gamer is impressive. Especially with too much spin. Tells me either you didnt fit for your gamer or the new driver is illegal.

 

no, my gamer is usually in the 1.48-1.50 smash with spin in the 2400-2500 range. I hit it well. but ballspeed was higher on Epic SZ, LA was equal, Spin was a bit higher due to stock shaft was a bit weaker than my gamer. By too much spin, for me, it was around 2700...not a ton, but there was a 3-5 mph gain in ballspeed on avg hits. bigger deal was the ESZ was better feel and sound to me, and the driver was noticeably more forgiving and better on mishits. All comparisons were done on trackman with about the same Smash with both drivers.

 

I'm confused how smash was about the same with both drivers. Only way that would happen is if your club head speed increased a few miles an hour to go along with the ball speed increases. If we start seeing smash factors in the 1.55 range or something like that, then I think we can attribute that to innovation in the club head.

 

I think the new tech in the driver is allowing for more ball speed by pushing the ball off the face with a quicker response than before. still within the CT limit but really pushing the .83 cor side of it. I was seeing, on best hits, more in the 1.50-1.51 range with Epic. Smash was about the same, but the Epic was constantly a bit higher. I didn't clarify that in the first response. Just reporting my findings. In testing other drivers against my gamer fairly often, mine has consistently had a similar smash to others but was more consistent for me. This one has me intrigued, mainly due to what I feel is better results on misses and directionaly better for me. Distance gains would be a bonus.

 

If I had to say the most interesting thing about this one, the misses had excellent ballspeed...didn't seem to lose anywhere near as much as my gamer.

[jongalt55]

Hit the SZ version and Fw today and they are both very solid offerings. All stock set up and I was still 5-10 past my gamer with too much spin. Look forward to testing with my shafts and correct swing weight. Wanted to go very straight overall. Both heads look great and the sound is very Fusion-esque!! Seemed much easier to hit than my past Sub zero and even my GBB!! Very stoked to get it on the course.

 

5-10 by your gamer is impressive. Especially with too much spin. Tells me either you didnt fit for your gamer or the new driver is illegal.

 

no, my gamer is usually in the 1.48-1.50 smash with spin in the 2400-2500 range. I hit it well. but ballspeed was higher on Epic SZ, LA was equal, Spin was a bit higher due to stock shaft was a bit weaker than my gamer. By too much spin, for me, it was around 2700...not a ton, but there was a 3-5 mph gain in ballspeed on avg hits. bigger deal was the ESZ was better feel and sound to me, and the driver was noticeably more forgiving and better on mishits. All comparisons were done on trackman with about the same Smash with both drivers.

 

I'm confused how smash was about the same with both drivers. Only way that would happen is if your club head speed increased a few miles an hour to go along with the ball speed increases. If we start seeing smash factors in the 1.55 range or something like that, then I think we can attribute that to innovation in the club head.

 

It is my understanding that achieving a smash of 1.55 (or even a true 1.5) is theoretically impossible unless the head weight has been increased by 40 grams or more over typical driver head weights. Good explanation here: http://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/smashfactor.php

 

[TaylorMadeLuv]

Hit the SZ version and Fw today and they are both very solid offerings. All stock set up and I was still 5-10 past my gamer with too much spin. Look forward to testing with my shafts and correct swing weight. Wanted to go very straight overall. Both heads look great and the sound is very Fusion-esque!! Seemed much easier to hit than my past Sub zero and even my GBB!! Very stoked to get it on the course.

 

5-10 by your gamer is impressive. Especially with too much spin. Tells me either you didnt fit for your gamer or the new driver is illegal.

 

no, my gamer is usually in the 1.48-1.50 smash with spin in the 2400-2500 range. I hit it well. but ballspeed was higher on Epic SZ, LA was equal, Spin was a bit higher due to stock shaft was a bit weaker than my gamer. By too much spin, for me, it was around 2700...not a ton, but there was a 3-5 mph gain in ballspeed on avg hits. bigger deal was the ESZ was better feel and sound to me, and the driver was noticeably more forgiving and better on mishits. All comparisons were done on trackman with about the same Smash with both drivers.

 

Swing speed same?

[TaylorMadeLuv]

Hit the SZ version and Fw today and they are both very solid offerings. All stock set up and I was still 5-10 past my gamer with too much spin. Look forward to testing with my shafts and correct swing weight. Wanted to go very straight overall. Both heads look great and the sound is very Fusion-esque!! Seemed much easier to hit than my past Sub zero and even my GBB!! Very stoked to get it on the course.

 

5-10 by your gamer is impressive. Especially with too much spin. Tells me either you didnt fit for your gamer or the new driver is illegal.

 

no, my gamer is usually in the 1.48-1.50 smash with spin in the 2400-2500 range. I hit it well. but ballspeed was higher on Epic SZ, LA was equal, Spin was a bit higher due to stock shaft was a bit weaker than my gamer. By too much spin, for me, it was around 2700...not a ton, but there was a 3-5 mph gain in ballspeed on avg hits. bigger deal was the ESZ was better feel and sound to me, and the driver was noticeably more forgiving and better on mishits. All comparisons were done on trackman with about the same Smash with both drivers.

 

I'm confused how smash was about the same with both drivers. Only way that would happen is if your club head speed increased a few miles an hour to go along with the ball speed increases. If we start seeing smash factors in the 1.55 range or something like that, then I think we can attribute that to innovation in the club head.

 

It is my understanding that achieving a smash of 1.55 (or even a true 1.5) is theoretically impossible unless the head weight has been increased by 40 grams or more over typical driver head weights. Good explanation here: http://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/smashfactor.php

 

1.55 is possible. Just not legal. COR is maxed. CT maxed. Anything above 1.51-1.52 with same club head speed would be non conforming.

[juggernaut0629]

Damn. I've got a fitting scheduled next week for the Fusion. Maybe I should wait now with this new Epic coming out.

[apprenti23]

Listen to all the TrackMan University graduates in here! woop woop!

[Llortamaisey]

Love it, but golf will still be golf. None of the "game changers" have really changed it.....

 

Calloway is positioning themselves nicely.

 

To be fair, Callaway is the only one that ever actually really did have a "game changer." If you were playing in the mid 90s, you'll remember that the Great Big Bertha added like 25 yards distance to everyone's tee shot overnight. And that was a real 25 yards.

 

I would disagree.

 

TaylorMade - first metal wood, first movable weight, first adjustable sleeve. RBZ fairways. ALL GAME CHANGERS!

While they did not catch on, there were metal woods available in the 1930's.

 

Moveable weight has also been done before and of course with lead tape. A good club builder could do anything (and more) to a club that an adjustable sleeve can do. The adjustable sleeve just makes it more consumer friendly. None of those were really a game changer. More refinement than revolution or even evolution.

[apprenti23]

 

Moveable weight has also been done before and of course with lead tape. A good club builder could do anything (and more) to a club that an adjustable sleeve can do. The adjustable sleeve just makes it more consumer friendly. None of those were really a game changer. More refinement than revolution or even evolution.

 

I don't know of many club builders that will bend woods and hybrids anymore, do you?

[averynickt]

Here is how it was explained to me yesterday. There are two different ways to measure cor or ct. the standard that USGA adapted it is right at the max. There is another which he called as a blast test to me, in which it wouldn't pass. It conforms since this isn't the test method the usga uses currently.

[SwingMan]

Damn. I've got a fitting scheduled next week for the Fusion. Maybe I should wait now with this new Epic coming out.

 

No, you'll want both. Fusion for early season play, and Epic when your swing is warmed up.

[TollBros]

Pics and loft details already. If the reps have seen it and testers have hit it, it's time for some photos.

[averynickt]

Couldn't take or post pictures. Hits tour in December. Fitting carts in January and ships February

[jonyim94]

Ok, from what I gather from this thread, the drivers are called Epic and Epic Sub Zero. Any comment on the shape & profile & what type of players they're aimed at?

[campion]

I love how someone with a tag name of Taylormadeluv is arguing with a callaway guy about a product he's never seen or hit. I'm pretty sure the club designers at callaway wouldn't put a product out that intentionally doesn't conform with USGA testing, unless that was their goal.

 

But I did hear that in there testing callaway saw a significant increase with the new design, truth or marketing, we won't know until we hit it.

[bryanwmilburn]

This thread has me holding off on getting a new 3 wood til I try the Epic. I've historically really enjoyed Callaway fairways but not drivers. Can't wait to see how it is!

[TaylorMadeLuv]

I love how someone with a tag name of Taylormadeluv is arguing with a callaway guy about a product he's never seen or hit. I'm pretty sure the club designers at callaway wouldn't put a product out that intentionally doesn't conform with USGA testing, unless that was their goal.

 

But I did hear that in there testing callaway saw a significant increase with the new design, truth or marketing, we won't know until we hit it.

 

Manufacturers are irrelevant. We have been capped on cor/ct since the mid 2000's. biggest changes have been ball and the ability to create high launch/low spin combos. Every club needs to be custom fit to be able to unlock or create distance gains.

 

You can say that the ability to get closer to 17/1700 is what every club manufacture is trying to do. With the limits the USGA has placed on clubs, any and all distance gain is STRICTLY on getting better launch conditions. Anyone that thinks otherwise is drinking the Koolaid.

[PMAC]

I love how someone with a tag name of Taylormadeluv is arguing with a callaway guy about a product he's never seen or hit. I'm pretty sure the club designers at callaway wouldn't put a product out that intentionally doesn't conform with USGA testing, unless that was their goal.

 

But I did hear that in there testing callaway saw a significant increase with the new design, truth or marketing, we won't know until we hit it.

 

Manufacturers are irrelevant. We have been capped on cor/ct since the mid 2000's. biggest changes have been ball and the ability to create high launch/low spin combos. Every club needs to be custom fit to be able to unlock or create distance gains.

 

You can say that the ability to get closer to 17/1700 is what every club manufacture is trying to do. With the limits the USGA has placed on clubs, any and all distance gain is STRICTLY on getting better launch conditions. Anyone that thinks otherwise is drinking the Koolaid.

 

Speaking of Koolaid.......17/1700....you have drank the koolaid. What percent of golfers will get to this?

[TaylorMadeLuv]

I love how someone with a tag name of Taylormadeluv is arguing with a callaway guy about a product he's never seen or hit. I'm pretty sure the club designers at callaway wouldn't put a product out that intentionally doesn't conform with USGA testing, unless that was their goal.

 

But I did hear that in there testing callaway saw a significant increase with the new design, truth or marketing, we won't know until we hit it.

 

Manufacturers are irrelevant. We have been capped on cor/ct since the mid 2000's. biggest changes have been ball and the ability to create high launch/low spin combos. Every club needs to be custom fit to be able to unlock or create distance gains.

 

You can say that the ability to get closer to 17/1700 is what every club manufacture is trying to do. With the limits the USGA has placed on clubs, any and all distance gain is STRICTLY on getting better launch conditions. Anyone that thinks otherwise is drinking the Koolaid.

 

Speaking of Koolaid.......17/1700....you have drank the koolaid. What percent of golfers will get to this?

 

Not many. But the closer you can get the further it's going to go based on trackman aoa, launch and spin chart. Again manufacture irrelevant. My forum handle doesn't change USGA limits or physics. Argue all you want on it. It's all marketing, just like computers or any other product. Is 3.2 ghz processor compared to 2.8ghz really going to improve the performance of what the everyday person needs?

[slicktry]

Essentially take everything that made the SubZero great, add better ballspeed and increased forgiveness. That's the Epic in a nutshell. Loved my SubZero except ballspeed's weren't in the M2 range.

 

God Bless

Jer

[TheMoneyShot]

Essentially take everything that made the SubZero great, add better ballspeed and increased forgiveness. That's the Epic in a nutshell. Loved my SubZero except ballspeed's weren't in the M2 range.

 

God Bless

Jer

 

Can you compare the Epic SZ ballspeeds to your M2?

[Dscvrr St Louis]

Hit the SZ version and Fw today and they are both very solid offerings. All stock set up and I was still 5-10 past my gamer with too much spin. Look forward to testing with my shafts and correct swing weight. Wanted to go very straight overall. Both heads look great and the sound is very Fusion-esque!! Seemed much easier to hit than my past Sub zero and even my GBB!! Very stoked to get it on the course.

 

5-10 by your gamer is impressive. Especially with too much spin. Tells me either you didnt fit for your gamer or the new driver is illegal.

 

no, my gamer is usually in the 1.48-1.50 smash with spin in the 2400-2500 range. I hit it well. but ballspeed was higher on Epic SZ, LA was equal, Spin was a bit higher due to stock shaft was a bit weaker than my gamer. By too much spin, for me, it was around 2700...not a ton, but there was a 3-5 mph gain in ballspeed on avg hits. bigger deal was the ESZ was better feel and sound to me, and the driver was noticeably more forgiving and better on mishits. All comparisons were done on trackman with about the same Smash with both drivers.

 

Swing speed same?

 

Swing Speed was around 103-105mph...same as usual.

[Brooks_Cupcake]

I love how someone with a tag name of Taylormadeluv is arguing with a callaway guy about a product he's never seen or hit. I'm pretty sure the club designers at callaway wouldn't put a product out that intentionally doesn't conform with USGA testing, unless that was their goal.

 

But I did hear that in there testing callaway saw a significant increase with the new design, truth or marketing, we won't know until we hit it.

 

Manufacturers are irrelevant. We have been capped on cor/ct since the mid 2000's. biggest changes have been ball and the ability to create high launch/low spin combos. Every club needs to be custom fit to be able to unlock or create distance gains.

 

You can say that the ability to get closer to 17/1700 is what every club manufacture is trying to do. With the limits the USGA has placed on clubs, any and all distance gain is STRICTLY on getting better launch conditions. Anyone that thinks otherwise is drinking the Koolaid.

 

This is 100% wrong. I've never been around any club builder, master fitter or brand rep that has fit to those specs, except when TMade's marketing came out and that's what they tried to spew to us at the shop. It doesn't work in real world, on course conditions.....

[Boydr12]

Will never ever ever replace my BBA 816 3 wood. But very interested in the driver! They better make the sub zero in left handed or they've lost me tho

[baudi]

Really interesting and looking forward. But what is the tech behind the head?

Full ti-head or composite and ti blend?

[EaglesGolf99]

Can't lie. Even with a new XR16 Sub Zero just arriving! ....

 

This Epic line definitely has me intrigued.

 

The Epic Sub Zero 3 Wood, I mean, Callaway can basically mark me down for one sight unseen. I love, love, love my OG 3 Deep, but that Sub Zero 3 Wood has the makings of being LONG LONG!

 

Can't wait.