2018 PGA Championship (Master Thread)

[North Butte]

I sure hope he has a win by this time next year or all we'll hear is "he's only 22 months into his comeback".

 

The "only 10 months into his comeback" excuse is getting played out. He's one of the best champions in all of sports history, he didn't forget how to win. The physical ability to do so is obviously there right now. He's healthy, has plenty of distance, and has all the shots. So at this point I think he's "back". Now it's just a question of if and when this level of being back is going to be good enough to close the deal.

 

The idea of it needing a little time is valid. He sat out a long time and wasn't even able to swing a club a year ago.

 

To be back in contention at 2 majors this quickly is a big accomplishment. There are big names that had no injuries who didn't contend at 2 majors.

 

Why don't we just try to enjoy the process and live in the moment instead of placing judgement on what timeline he has to win in.

 

Never said it isn't a big accomplishment, because after the back surgery it obviously is. However, I'd say a "little time" has has already passed. He's healthy now so it's not a physical issue. So what now is he coming back from? He knows how to win as well as anyone who has ever played.

 

Other big names haven't contended? So what. That's not relevant in any way to this discussion.

 

Im not placing any judgment on when he has to win, I'm simply saying the "only 10 months into his comeback" line is getting weak as an excuse for why he hasn't won. Because at this point that's just what it is, an excuse.

 

As jerebear21 said, 10 months is actually nothing when coming off injuries of that severity.

 

You have to remember, before all of his injuries, Tiger probably never went more than 1 week without hitting balls. He was always in peak form. To sit out a full calendar year and not even be able to swing a golf club for most of it, that's another thing to overcome. You don't just immediately find your top form again. As he said, he didn't even have a golf swing a year ago. He had to build to where he is now. Which takes time. It takes literally hitting thousands of balls again. And he will probably win before this year is over because of that.

 

I'm not making any excuses, because by any reasonable expectations, what Tiger has done this year is a success. There's nothing to make excuses for.

 

And the point about other big names is relevant. He's having a better season than Jordan Spieth, for example. So I'm just wondering if someone defends JS and says "he's just having a bad year, it happens to everyone", are you going to be right there telling them they are making excuses?

 

You are 100% "placing judgment on when he has to win". Otherwise you would have no problem with the 10 month line. You are saying that 10 months is long enough to where he should have won by now, are you not?

 

I’m simply quoting the line being tossed around. “10 months into his comeback”. He’s obviously healthy enough to win at this point. If he weren’t there wouldn’t be 20 people saying “If only the putts goes in on 1, and the putt on 5”; etc,etc. So if he’s good enough to win now, and he’s 10 months in, then add them together and I guess it’s long enough for him to win by now. Correct? I’m not making a judgement, I’m just using the arguments put out there by the Tiger fans themselves.

 

Someone having a bad round isn’t an excuse, it’s a simple fact (although bad is subjective and different to every person). But there is no qualifier in saying JS is having a bad round. Saying “he’s only 10 months into his comeback” is a qualifier. Plain and simple. So, what the others guys are doing, or how they are playing have no relevance to this particular discussion.

 

You’re correct, what he has done this year is outstanding. He is close to winning, when just playing is pretty remarkable. All I’ve been saying is ,at this point when he doesn’t win, using the time into comeback is rationalizing why he didn’t. Becasue he’s “back”enough to win.

 

Agreed. There's only so far "back" he can be and if he's not 100% there right now he's sure as heck 99.999%. Against all odds he has recovered to the extent is a legitimate, short-odds contender in every tournament and Major he enters. Now the question is "will he or won't he" win another major and if he does will he win four more. His game is almost certainly not going to make any additional quantum leap in quality at this point.

[deadsolid...shank]

More amateur analyzing, lol, of Tiger's mind.

 

Can a 42 year old "REALLY" make up several shots against today's field?

 

Well, if you watched Sunday, that's exactly what he did, way better than "the field" except one guy, same with the two days before.

 

This stuff is laughable.

 

Hawk, he didn’t make them up against the field though. The field is everyone. It doesn’t do any good to beat all but one person (if winning is THE main objective).

 

I believe there are a lot of positives again to be taken from the week, and I do believe he will close the deal again, but its not there yet.

[tsecor]

And if he continues to miss 14 fairways each round......

[aknow]

The problem with that argument is 10 months into his return isn't a weak excuse. Most ACL players don't get back until year 2 except for Adrian Peterson.

 

Most people with a surgical repair back don't even play golf again.

 

He's has 7 top 12s in 14 tournaments including a legit chance to win two majors in the back 9 on a Sunday. Big picture here is this is nothing short of amazing. Obviously I'm guilty of being overly excited when the return began but after seeing this who can blame me.

 

The talent is still there. The eye test tells me he will win again.

 

I agree Jere. The talent is there, he is healthy. He does look like he will win. Hence my statement. If he is still "coming back", then at this point, what is he coming back from? It's not physical now.

 

So has he forgotten how to win? If by some chance he never wins again (hypothetical here, not a prediction), then did he never make it back?

 

My point is, i think he is "back". But being back now may be just this, contention. With probably some wins sprinkled in. But I think a lot of hardcore fans think he's going to come back to what or where he was previously. That he's going to win damn near every time he tees it up, and completely dominate again.

 

And now, every time he comes close, but doesn't end up on top, we hear it again. The rationalizations (or excuses in my book) for why he didn't win. Because he's still in his comeback.

 

A poignant observation, very well made. He has been very careful up until now to keep a lid on expectations.

 

I think it's likely that deep down he's struggling with the fact that he is NOT as good as he was and he's not figured out how to get over the line yet. In the past, just being near the top of the leaderboard could be enough to win because he was in their heads and fear caused mistakes.

 

He's done the sensible thing and avoided saying "I will win by X point" but as the season draws to a close he knows the longer he goes without winning, the less he can blame rehab or "coming back" on not doing so. If that's the case he's going to have to come up with other "reasons" or finally address/admit the fact he's not the same and perhaps doesn't have enough to get over the line anymore. If he does that then he needs to think about whether he wants to compete for top 10s and not trophies. Will that be enough?

 

I think that's where he's at. Regardless of finishing second, fifth or holding a lead throughout the tournament the fact is he's been several shots off a win when it's all said and done. Now I think what he's done so far has been incredible but can a 42 year old with multiple injury, several back and neck surgeries REALLY make up several shots against today's field?

 

I'm not so sure as he will have to play better than he ever has to beat the current field and parts of his game aren't strong enough yet.

 

He's got a choice to make and that choice will involve him being honest about if he can win again. If he genuinely believes he can then he'll need to stop being the nearly man and get it done. He might just push too hard and I'm not sure his body will take a full time, concerted effort at beating the best on the planet season after season.

 

His approach on 17 and putt on 18 tell me he's got it figured out for sure, and it's just a matter of when he wins. The golf crowd adores him, warts and all.

[Potatohead]

And if he continues to miss 14 fairways each round......

 

After 2000 he has never been super accurate. He's always been around 50% fairways. Yesterday was worse than normal but he did hit four or five great drives too. Normally he can lean on that 3 iron but even yesterday he was missing it which is just an off day. His iron play otherwise was absolutely astounding. Even the one on six he completely piped, just had half club too much.

[bigchucksr]

All I want to say about the PGA this year is "Thanks for the Memory!". What a pleasure to see Tiger being Tiger, those huge uproars from the crowd with every great shot/putt, and the mobs of fans running from the last green to the next tee. It was wonderful to relive the memory from the past and great to anticipate what may be coming in tournaments of the future.

[JonnyKrasnodar]

More amateur analyzing, lol, of Tiger's mind.

 

Can a 42 year old "REALLY" make up several shots against today's field?

 

Well, if you watched Sunday, that's exactly what he did, way better than "the field" except one guy, same with the two days before.

 

This stuff is laughable.

 

Laughably in your persistent attempts at trolling me you've shown yourself up. He's not made up enough shots to win. Fact. Two days before? Did the PGA start handing out trophies on the Friday? No? So your point is irrelevant. (Standard)

 

How he played is irrelevant. He has to play better and at no point has he looked like he's going to get it done.

 

The trophy and history books won't detail your hard on for how Tiger played, only the winner.

 

Always funny seeing your ignored post pop up straight after mine given you have nothing better to do. You haven't disappointed. Tiger CAN make up shots to win...but didn't and hasn't. Amateur hour indeed. Hahaha.

[deadsolid...shank]

All I want to say about the PGA this year is "Thanks for the Memory!". What a pleasure to see Tiger being Tiger, those huge uproars from the crowd with every great shot/putt, and the mobs of fans running from the last green to the next tee. It was wonderful to relive the memory from the past and great to anticipate what may be coming in tournaments of the future.

 

That is so true. Even those of us who aren’t on the bandwagon have to admit it is a vastly different experience when he is in the mix.

 

I have to admit, I would probably pull for him more except I can’t stand to read some of the posts here when he is playing well and in contention. Some of the stuff is so over the top it’s mind blowing (and I’m sure the other side says plenty of ridiculous stuff too, me included).

[jwhite86]

All I want to say about the PGA this year is "Thanks for the Memory!". What a pleasure to see Tiger being Tiger, those huge uproars from the crowd with every great shot/putt, and the mobs of fans running from the last green to the next tee. It was wonderful to relive the memory from the past and great to anticipate what may be coming in tournaments of the future.

 

That is so true. Even those of us who aren’t on the bandwagon have to admit it is a vastly different experience when he is in the mix.

 

I have to admit, I would probably pull for him more except I can’t stand to read some of the posts here when he is playing well and in contention. Some of the stuff is so over the top it’s mind blowing (and I’m sure the other side says plenty of ridiculous stuff too, me included).

 

I usually spend my free time at work here... but today has been pretty unbearable with all of the if if if if ifs...

[deadsolid...shank]

All I want to say about the PGA this year is "Thanks for the Memory!". What a pleasure to see Tiger being Tiger, those huge uproars from the crowd with every great shot/putt, and the mobs of fans running from the last green to the next tee. It was wonderful to relive the memory from the past and great to anticipate what may be coming in tournaments of the future.

 

That is so true. Even those of us who aren’t on the bandwagon have to admit it is a vastly different experience when he is in the mix.

 

I have to admit, I would probably pull for him more except I can’t stand to read some of the posts here when he is playing well and in contention. Some of the stuff is so over the top it’s mind blowing (and I’m sure the other side says plenty of ridiculous stuff too, me included).

 

I usually spend my free time at work here... but today has been pretty unbearable with all of the if if if if ifs...

 

That’s one of the biggies. Apparently to many, the “ifs”only work for one person. IF BK makes a couple more of those shortish birdie putts, it wouldn’t have mattered if Tiger had made his.

 

Several people have tried to point out that EVERY player in the field has a boatload of ifs.

[paulshack]

What werre the ratings???

[tsecor]

one thing I will say is, I am not a tiger fan. I stopped being a fan after the 1996 PGA where I saw him do something to a kid that was not nice. But after years of not liking him, I will say since he has softened his approach to the tour and is interacting more and more as he ages, I found myself hoping he got into a playoff or something...deep down I knew it would not happen, but he definitely brought back the fist pump to the game and golf absolutely needs that.....otherwise a tour full of koepkas, Days and Dustins will put everyone to sleep....

[JonnyKrasnodar]

The problem with that argument is 10 months into his return isn't a weak excuse. Most ACL players don't get back until year 2 except for Adrian Peterson.

 

Most people with a surgical repair back don't even play golf again.

 

He's has 7 top 12s in 14 tournaments including a legit chance to win two majors in the back 9 on a Sunday. Big picture here is this is nothing short of amazing. Obviously I'm guilty of being overly excited when the return began but after seeing this who can blame me.

 

The talent is still there. The eye test tells me he will win again.

 

I agree Jere. The talent is there, he is healthy. He does look like he will win. Hence my statement. If he is still "coming back", then at this point, what is he coming back from? It's not physical now.

 

So has he forgotten how to win? If by some chance he never wins again (hypothetical here, not a prediction), then did he never make it back?

 

My point is, i think he is "back". But being back now may be just this, contention. With probably some wins sprinkled in. But I think a lot of hardcore fans think he's going to come back to what or where he was previously. That he's going to win damn near every time he tees it up, and completely dominate again.

 

And now, every time he comes close, but doesn't end up on top, we hear it again. The rationalizations (or excuses in my book) for why he didn't win. Because he's still in his comeback.

 

A poignant observation, very well made. He has been very careful up until now to keep a lid on expectations.

 

I think it's likely that deep down he's struggling with the fact that he is NOT as good as he was and he's not figured out how to get over the line yet. In the past, just being near the top of the leaderboard could be enough to win because he was in their heads and fear caused mistakes.

 

He's done the sensible thing and avoided saying "I will win by X point" but as the season draws to a close he knows the longer he goes without winning, the less he can blame rehab or "coming back" on not doing so. If that's the case he's going to have to come up with other "reasons" or finally address/admit the fact he's not the same and perhaps doesn't have enough to get over the line anymore. If he does that then he needs to think about whether he wants to compete for top 10s and not trophies. Will that be enough?

 

I think that's where he's at. Regardless of finishing second, fifth or holding a lead throughout the tournament the fact is he's been several shots off a win when it's all said and done. Now I think what he's done so far has been incredible but can a 42 year old with multiple injury, several back and neck surgeries REALLY make up several shots against today's field?

 

I'm not so sure as he will have to play better than he ever has to beat the current field and parts of his game aren't strong enough yet.

 

He's got a choice to make and that choice will involve him being honest about if he can win again. If he genuinely believes he can then he'll need to stop being the nearly man and get it done. He might just push too hard and I'm not sure his body will take a full time, concerted effort at beating the best on the planet season after season.

 

His approach on 17 and putt on 18 tell me he's got it figured out for sure, and it's just a matter of when he wins. The golf crowd adores him, warts and all.

 

I hope he does win. As you know I was very critical last year of his return because it was obvious he wasn't ready and wasn't truthful about that fact.

 

As I said above, what he has done and how he has played is incredible given the circumstances. The wider point being discussed (and it's apparently OK for everyone bar me to speculate) is at what point is he "back" and going to start acknowledging the expectations on him and the fact he's fallen short so far?

 

People adore him more now than they ever did before. That's fine. If anyone believes he is truly happy just being out there, finishing 32nd in The Masters and making the odd top 5 or top 10 I'd question if they'd ever watched him or listened to him at his peak.

 

Fact is, he's figured out how to hit incredible golf shots again. He's hit loads this year. That's different from figuring out how to win though.

 

I'd be delighted if he does but at no point has his driving or putting looked like it was going to hold up for four days.

[tsecor]

What werre the ratings???

some are saying up 69%, some are saying less...either way it was a huge win for the PGA

[adam667220]

What werre the ratings???

some are saying up 69%, some are saying less...either way it was a huge win for the PGA

 

08.13.2018

CBS SPORTS’ 2018 PGA CHAMPIONSHIP FINAL-ROUND COVERAGE SCORES HIGHEST RATING IN NINE YEARS, UP 69% FROM LAST YEAR

 

 

CBS Sports’ final-round coverage of the 2018 PGA Championship on Sunday, August 12 earned an average household metered market rating/share of 6.1/14, up 69% from last year’s 3.6/8. Brooks Koepka held off Tiger Woods and Adam Scott to win his second major of the year.

This year’s 6.1/14 is the highest rating for the Sunday final round of the PGA Championship since 2009.

The final-round rating peaked with an 8.3/17 rating/share from 7:00-7:15 PM, ET.

Top Five Rated Markets:

1. St. Louis – 11.5/24

2. Fort Myers – 11.2/22

3. Kansas City – 10.4/22

4. Tampa/St. Petersburg – 9.8/21

T5. Dayton – 9.5/19

West Palm Beach – 9.5/18

[8thehardway]

He's figured out how to get the lead, just not how to hold it; and how to come in second, just not first. Maybe he's learned something from this tournament he can build on.

[adam667220]

What werre the ratings???

some are saying up 69%, some are saying less...either way it was a huge win for the PGA

 

08.13.2018

CBS SPORTS’ 2018 PGA CHAMPIONSHIP FINAL-ROUND COVERAGE SCORES HIGHEST RATING IN NINE YEARS, UP 69% FROM LAST YEAR

 

 

CBS Sports’ final-round coverage of the 2018 PGA Championship on Sunday, August 12 earned an average household metered market rating/share of 6.1/14, up 69% from last year’s 3.6/8. Brooks Koepka held off Tiger Woods and Adam Scott to win his second major of the year.

This year’s 6.1/14 is the highest rating for the Sunday final round of the PGA Championship since 2009.

The final-round rating peaked with an 8.3/17 rating/share from 7:00-7:15 PM, ET.

Top Five Rated Markets:

1. St. Louis – 11.5/24

2. Fort Myers – 11.2/22

3. Kansas City – 10.4/22

4. Tampa/St. Petersburg – 9.8/21

T5. Dayton – 9.5/19

West Palm Beach – 9.5/18

 

 

Third round was up 54% from last year. Also highest since 2009. No CBS press release on Thursday or Friday regarding numbers.

[straightshot7]

I sure hope he has a win by this time next year or all we'll hear is "he's only 22 months into his comeback".

 

The "only 10 months into his comeback" excuse is getting played out. He's one of the best champions in all of sports history, he didn't forget how to win. The physical ability to do so is obviously there right now. He's healthy, has plenty of distance, and has all the shots. So at this point I think he's "back". Now it's just a question of if and when this level of being back is going to be good enough to close the deal.

 

The idea of it needing a little time is valid. He sat out a long time and wasn't even able to swing a club a year ago.

 

To be back in contention at 2 majors this quickly is a big accomplishment. There are big names that had no injuries who didn't contend at 2 majors.

 

Why don't we just try to enjoy the process and live in the moment instead of placing judgement on what timeline he has to win in.

 

Never said it isn't a big accomplishment, because after the back surgery it obviously is. However, I'd say a "little time" has has already passed. He's healthy now so it's not a physical issue. So what now is he coming back from? He knows how to win as well as anyone who has ever played.

 

Other big names haven't contended? So what. That's not relevant in any way to this discussion.

 

Im not placing any judgment on when he has to win, I'm simply saying the "only 10 months into his comeback" line is getting weak as an excuse for why he hasn't won. Because at this point that's just what it is, an excuse.

 

As jerebear21 said, 10 months is actually nothing when coming off injuries of that severity.

 

You have to remember, before all of his injuries, Tiger probably never went more than 1 week without hitting balls. He was always in peak form. To sit out a full calendar year and not even be able to swing a golf club for most of it, that's another thing to overcome. You don't just immediately find your top form again. As he said, he didn't even have a golf swing a year ago. He had to build to where he is now. Which takes time. It takes literally hitting thousands of balls again. And he will probably win before this year is over because of that.

 

I'm not making any excuses, because by any reasonable expectations, what Tiger has done this year is a success. There's nothing to make excuses for.

 

And the point about other big names is relevant. He's having a better season than Jordan Spieth, for example. So I'm just wondering if someone defends JS and says "he's just having a bad year, it happens to everyone", are you going to be right there telling them they are making excuses?

 

You are 100% "placing judgment on when he has to win". Otherwise you would have no problem with the 10 month line. You are saying that 10 months is long enough to where he should have won by now, are you not?

 

I’m simply quoting the line being tossed around. “10 months into his comeback”. He’s obviously healthy enough to win at this point. If he weren’t there wouldn’t be 20 people saying “If only the putts goes in on 1, and the putt on 5”; etc,etc. So if he’s good enough to win now, and he’s 10 months in, then add them together and I guess it’s long enough for him to win by now. Correct? I’m not making a judgement, I’m just using the arguments put out there by the Tiger fans themselves.

 

Someone having a bad round isn’t an excuse, it’s a simple fact (although bad is subjective and different to every person). But there is no qualifier in saying JS is having a bad round. Saying “he’s only 10 months into his comeback” is a qualifier. Plain and simple. So, what the others guys are doing, or how they are playing have no relevance to this particular discussion.

 

You’re correct, what he has done this year is outstanding. He is close to winning, when just playing is pretty remarkable. All I’ve been saying is ,at this point when he doesn’t win, using the time into comeback is rationalizing why he didn’t. Becasue he’s “back”enough to win.

 

"A bad round"? I said/was referring to Spieth's entire year. He hasn't won in more than full calendar year. And I did include the qualifier that I've seen people use: "everyone has bad years". But that's another subject.

 

Yeah Tiger's healthy enough to win. But he obviously hasn't been quite good enough to win. And the main reason for that is because he is still rounding into top form and solidifying his new swing.

 

The main factor in that entire equation of being good enough to win is time. He's been progressing every month by solidifying his swing and practicing and playing. So bringing up the timeline is actually the best explanation for why he hasn't won yet.

 

It's not just about being healthy. Otherwise every healthy person would win? It's about being in top form. And you don't just roll out of bed after a year off, hit some balls and win against the best players in the world.

 

I think 1 year is perfectly acceptable as a time period to get back to being your best. And it hasn't even been 1 year yet. So nit picking at people saying 10 months is overboard in my opinion. But to each his own.

 

In the bigger picture all that matters is that he stays healthy and continues progressing. Winning then becomes inevitable.

[JonnyKrasnodar]

More amateur analyzing, lol, of Tiger's mind.

 

Can a 42 year old "REALLY" make up several shots against today's field?

 

Well, if you watched Sunday, that's exactly what he did, way better than "the field" except one guy, same with the two days before.

 

This stuff is laughable.

 

Hawk, he didn’t make them up against the field though. The field is everyone. It doesn’t do any good to beat all but one person (if winning is THE main objective).

 

I believe there are a lot of positives again to be taken from the week, and I do believe he will close the deal again, but its not there yet.

 

Yup.

[North Butte]

Define "progressing". Are you meaning an improvement in his game other than actually closing the deal in a major on a Sunday?

 

Because I'm hard pressed to see any specific element of Tiger's game RIGHT NOW that is likely to "progress" by this time next year. Just how much better do you think he's going to get?

 

Every single thing about his game is good enough to win a Major right now. You don't repeatedly finish that close to the top without having the game to win. It isn't like he's going to be hitting twice as many fairways, driving it 20 yards farther and holing an extra 20-footer per round in the next set of majors when he's one year older/

[sheldonjhacker]

All I want to say about the PGA this year is "Thanks for the Memory!". What a pleasure to see Tiger being Tiger, those huge uproars from the crowd with every great shot/putt, and the mobs of fans running from the last green to the next tee. It was wonderful to relive the memory from the past and great to anticipate what may be coming in tournaments of the future.

 

That is so true. Even those of us who aren’t on the bandwagon have to admit it is a vastly different experience when he is in the mix.

 

I have to admit, I would probably pull for him more except I can’t stand to read some of the posts here when he is playing well and in contention. Some of the stuff is so over the top it’s mind blowing (and I’m sure the other side says plenty of ridiculous stuff too, me included).

 

I usually spend my free time at work here... but today has been pretty unbearable with all of the if if if if ifs...

Yup...if my aunt had nuts...she'd be my uncle ! :wave:

[straightshot7]

Define "progressing". Are you meaning an improvement in his game other than actually closing the deal in a major on a Sunday?

 

Because I'm hard pressed to see any specific element of Tiger's game RIGHT NOW that is likely to "progress" by this time next year. Just how much better do you think he's going to get?

 

Every single thing about his game is good enough to win a Major right now. You don't repeatedly finish that close to the top without having the game to win. It isn't like he's going to be hitting twice as many fairways, driving it 20 yards farther and holing an extra 20-footer per round in the next set of majors when he's one year older/

 

His swing is still a work in progress. He changed his posture and he's swinging with more arms than the Foley swing. It's totally different. And you don't just own a new swing in a matter of months.

 

Did you watch the PGA Championship? He could barely hit a fairway on Sunday. In theory, as he grows more comfortable and confident with his new swing, he will be a little straighter. Also, maybe he is getting acclimated to the pressure again and the pressure got to him off the tee. In theory, he will be more relaxed in the future.

 

And maybe he just needs to be a little sharper. And avoid the double bogey on Thursday, for example. And maybe it's just about getting yourself more chances. More tournaments=more chances to win=wins.

 

Otherwise, what's your theory? That he isn't good enough to win? Or he now lacks the killer edge to close?

[North Butte]

I posted my theory just upthread. He is as much "back" as he's ever going to be and he is just a capable of winning as Brooks Koepka, Dustin Johnson, Justin Thomas or a handful of others.

 

He may or may not actually do it in the Majors remaining in his career but there's nothing lacking in his game.

 

He is not and never will be again so dominant that something less than his very best performance is still good enough for a runaway win in a Major. He'll have to settle for being one of the best players in the world as just hammering away until he finds a way to win on a given week.

[straightshot7]

I posted my theory just upthread. He is as much "back" as he's ever going to be and he is just a capable of winning as Brooks Koepka, Dustin Johnson, Justin Thomas or a handful of others.

 

He may or may not actually do it in the Majors remaining in his career but there's nothing lacking in his game.

 

He is not and never will be again so dominant that something less than his very best performance is still good enough for a runaway win in a Major. He'll have to settle for being one of the best players in the world as just hammering away until he finds a way to win on a given week.

 

I mean, I don't think you or I are in a position to put a cap on Tiger Wood's golf game. If there's anything he's shown us over the years it's that he defies and exceeds expectations. He's literally proving a lot of people wrong just by playing and being in contention at this point.

 

But, are you saying that the average level of play has risen so that it won't be easy or possible for him to dominant like he once did? Yeah, that's probably true.

 

Are you saying he won't be as good as he was at his very best in his prime? Yeah, that's probably true.

 

But the way he's looking out there lately, I think he can play at a level close to what he once was. And that will still be good enough to win ~3-5 times a year. But that's obviously just me speculating. I just hope he stays healthy.

[jerebear21]

I think tiger can get better with his driver, putting and mental.

[gioguy21]

I think tiger can get better with his driver, putting and mental.

if he got all things going, oh my.

 

 

*yea yea yea yea i know all bout the 'if' game.

[jmcf1949]

I'm just thankful I haven't had to listen to Samuel L Jackson asking me What's In Your Wallet?

 

When is that clown moving out of the country? He claimed he was gone if Trump won. I'll help him pack!

[North Butte]

I posted my theory just upthread. He is as much "back" as he's ever going to be and he is just a capable of winning as Brooks Koepka, Dustin Johnson, Justin Thomas or a handful of others.

 

He may or may not actually do it in the Majors remaining in his career but there's nothing lacking in his game.

 

He is not and never will be again so dominant that something less than his very best performance is still good enough for a runaway win in a Major. He'll have to settle for being one of the best players in the world as just hammering away until he finds a way to win on a given week.

 

I mean, I don't think you or I are in a position to put a cap on Tiger Wood's golf game. If there's anything he's shown us over the years it's that he defies and exceeds expectations. He's literally proving a lot of people wrong just by playing and being in contention at this point.

 

But, are you saying that the average level of play has risen so that it won't be easy or possible for him to dominant like he once did? Yeah, that's probably true.

 

Are you saying he won't be as good as he was at his very best in his prime? Yeah, that's probably true.

 

But the way he's looking out there lately, I think he can play at a level close to what he once was. And that will still be good enough to win ~3-5 times a year. But that's obviously just me speculating. I just hope he stays healthy.

 

I do think the level of play of, say, the Top 20 players in the world is significantly better than it was 15-20 years ago. But that's beside the point.

 

My point is, it's a bloody miracle that Tiger is playing as well as he is RIGHT NOW given where he was a couple years ago. Just remarkable, almost unprecedented.

 

But the fact he made it back to the level does not mean he's going to turn around a few months from now and make yet another miraculous improvement over his current form.

 

You're falling into the logical fallacy of thinking that if you roll the dice and get snake eyes three times in a row it becomes a mortal lock that the fourth roll will be another snake eyes. It is far, far, far more likely that Tiger will worse next year than he is now, than better. There is no such thing as "progress", that is an imaginary construct you are imposing on a series of contingencies.

 

If he keeps playing at today's level for two more years there's a better than even chance (in my estimation) that he wins one or more majors. Even if he regresses slightly from his current form he has a great chance of nabbing another one in the next couple years.

 

But there's no threshold like you're imagining where his game follows this inexorable upward trend until one day he crosses the line and becomes a winner. That's not how golf works. Every Major is a crapshoot. Right now he'll rolling as favorable set of dice as anyone in the world but that does not guarantee him "progressing" to a point where he can just start rolling snake eyes every time.

[redfirebird08]

Define "progressing". Are you meaning an improvement in his game other than actually closing the deal in a major on a Sunday?

 

Because I'm hard pressed to see any specific element of Tiger's game RIGHT NOW that is likely to "progress" by this time next year. Just how much better do you think he's going to get?

 

Every single thing about his game is good enough to win a Major right now. You don't repeatedly finish that close to the top without having the game to win. It isn't like he's going to be hitting twice as many fairways, driving it 20 yards farther and holing an extra 20-footer per round in the next set of majors when he's one year older/

 

Generally to win golf tournaments it does take a magical week for anyone to get it done. So yes, he CAN improve on the driving. It is entirely possible for him to catch lightning in a bottle and figure out something with his swing to get the ball in play off the tee for 4 rounds. If that happens, who knows. The rest of his game is good enough to win.

[deadsolid...shank]

I sure hope he has a win by this time next year or all we'll hear is "he's only 22 months into his comeback".

 

The "only 10 months into his comeback" excuse is getting played out. He's one of the best champions in all of sports history, he didn't forget how to win. The physical ability to do so is obviously there right now. He's healthy, has plenty of distance, and has all the shots. So at this point I think he's "back". Now it's just a question of if and when this level of being back is going to be good enough to close the deal.

 

 

The idea of it needing a little time is valid. He sat out a long time and wasn't even able to swing a club a year ago.

 

To be back in contention at 2 majors this quickly is a big accomplishment. There are big names that had no injuries who didn't contend at 2 majors.

 

Why don't we just try to enjoy the process and live in the moment instead of placing judgement on what timeline he has to win in.

 

Never said it isn't a big accomplishment, because after the back surgery it obviously is. However, I'd say a "little time" has has already passed. He's healthy now so it's not a physical issue. So what now is he coming back from? He knows how to win as well as anyone who has ever played.

 

Other big names haven't contended? So what. That's not relevant in any way to this discussion.

 

Im not placing any judgment on when he has to win, I'm simply saying the "only 10 months into his comeback" line is getting weak as an excuse for why he hasn't won. Because at this point that's just what it is, an excuse.

 

As jerebear21 said, 10 months is actually nothing when coming off injuries of that severity.

 

You have to remember, before all of his injuries, Tiger probably never went more than 1 week without hitting balls. He was always in peak form. To sit out a full calendar year and not even be able to swing a golf club for most of it, that's another thing to overcome. You don't just immediately find your top form again. As he said, he didn't even have a golf swing a year ago. He had to build to where he is now. Which takes time. It takes literally hitting thousands of balls again. And he will probably win before this year is over because of that.

 

I'm not making any excuses, because by any reasonable expectations, what Tiger has done this year is a success. There's nothing to make excuses for.

 

And the point about other big names is relevant. He's having a better season than Jordan Spieth, for example. So I'm just wondering if someone defends JS and says "he's just having a bad year, it happens to everyone", are you going to be right there telling them they are making excuses?

 

You are 100% "placing judgment on when he has to win". Otherwise you would have no problem with the 10 month line. You are saying that 10 months is long enough to where he should have won by now, are you not?

 

I’m simp4ly quoting the line being tossed around. “10 months into his comeback”. He’s obviously healthy enough to win at this point. If he weren’t there wouldn’t be 20 people saying “If only the putts goes in on 1, and the putt on 5”; etc,etc. So if he’s good enough to win now, and he’s 10 months in, then add them together and I guess it’s long enough for him to win by now. Correct? I’m not making a judgement, I’m just using the arguments put out there by the Tiger fans themselves.

 

Someone having a bad round isn’t an excuse, it’s a simple fact (although bad is subjective and different to every person). But there is no qualifier in saying JS is having a bad round. Saying “he’s only 10 months into his comeback” is a qualifier. Plain and simple. So, what the others guys are doing, or how they are playing have no relevance to this particular discussion.

 

You’re correct, what he has done this year is outstanding. He is close to winning, when just playing is pretty remarkable. All I’ve been saying is ,at this point when he doesn’t win, using the time into comeback is rationalizing why he didn’t. Becasue he’s “back”enough to win.

 

"A bad round"? I said/was referring to Spieth's entire year. He hasn't won in more than full calendar year. And I did include the qualifier that I've seen people use: "everyone has bad years". But that's another subject.

 

Yeah Tiger's healthy enough to win. But he obviously hasn't been quite good enough to win. And the main reason for that is because he is still rounding into top form and solidifying his new swing.

 

The main factor in that entire equation of being good enough to win is time. He's been progressing every month by solidifying his swing and practicing and playing. So bringing up the timeline is actually the best explanation for why he hasn't won yet.

 

It's not just about being healthy. Otherwise every healthy person would win? It's about being in top form. And you don't just roll out of bed after a year off, hit some balls and win against the best players in the world.

 

I think 1 year is perfectly acceptable as a time period to get back to being your best. And it hasn't even been 1 year yet. So nit picking at people saying 10 months is overboard in my opinion. But to each his own.

 

In the bigger picture all that matters is that he stays healthy and continues progressing. Winning then becomes inevitable.

 

That’s all fair. I want to reiterate too that I’m not actually dissing on Tiger himself. I think it has been a remarkable year for him.