Who Said That Ya Can Never Go Back......

[Forged4ever]

This isn’t a one of those auto-traction threads or emotionally charged subjects that will run for pages though I thought that it was a pretty cool article~

 

https://www.golf.com/gear/drivers/2019/05/01/taylormade-anniversary-tiger-rory-dj/amp/

 

For me, the best line was the last where it was noted that in today’s game with today’s driver, two factors that were absolutely critical in the persimmon days and into the metal wood generation, consistency and accuracy, have basically been taken care of with the monstrous drivers of the day and have been relegated to the back burner, no pun intended, lol

 

Stay well Gals & Gents?

RP

 

[gvogel]

I have long advocated that elite golfers (same ones that have to play by the groove rule in their wedges) should be restricted to driver head sizes of less than 230 cc (maybe even smaller) and driver face COR of whatever the original Pittsburgh Persimmon was. Give the golf courses a fighting chance, particularly if they aren't going to change ball specs.

 

Thanks for posting the link.

[Ole3wiggle]

> @gvogel said:

> I have long advocated that elite golfers (same ones that have to play by the groove rule in their wedges) should be restricted to driver head sizes of less than 230 cc (maybe even smaller) and driver face COR of whatever the original Pittsburgh Persimmon was. Give the golf courses a fighting chance, particularly if they aren't going to change ball specs.

>

> Thanks for posting the link.

 

This is 100% what should be done. I dont understand why Professionals need 460cc driver heads. Lets pull the game back in and limit the distance the Driver & woods go. That goes for mold filled Driving Irons too.

[Ferguson]

**All things end**, including the small driver era of the past.

 

Having grown up starting with persimmon, then moving to small SS then to the giant heads of today, I would have to say one thing - "they don't make them like they used to..... thank god."

 

 

[puttingmatt]

Its not the same game, not the same clubs. Little or no gear effect , not as

Much risk for drivers off the tee. Today's driver all but steer themselves straight.

Really , makes the game easier. Remember switching from a Palmer persimmons to the taylormade metalwood driver. The difference in sound and feel took a bit,

But were easier to play.r

 

[rgk5]

> @Forged4ever said:

> This isn’t a one of those auto-traction threads or emotionally charged subjects that will run for pages though I thought that it was a pretty cool article~

>

> https://www.golf.com/gear/drivers/2019/05/01/taylormade-anniversary-tiger-rory-dj/amp/

>

> For me, the best line was the last where it was noted that in today’s game with today’s driver, two factors that were absolutely critical in the persimmon days and into the metal wood generation, consistency and accuracy, have basically been taken care of with the monstrous drivers of the day and have been relegated to the back burner, no pun intended, lol

>

> Stay well Gals & Gents?

> RP

>

 

They should give 'em one of these to play. I still have mine in mint shape.

[iteachgolf]

They’d still have ball speeds in the 170s. And notice how many balls were in the fairway. Play wouldn’t drop off as much as you think. Kinda like how the groove rule was supposed to make scrambling harder, but from day 1 it actually made it easier and more predictable

[smashdn]

A ball with more spin and a club that creates more left and right hand spin would, imo, create more interesting golf.

 

The great ballstrikers would stand more of a chance. The long guys would still be long but they would need to occasionally reign it in to stay in play.

 

Nicklaus talked of playing a a heel cut that used the gear effect of the driver face to control ball flight when he was at a point he could throttle back but needed accuracy.

 

COR is limited at .83 IIRC. Persimmon is something like .76. Not super far off. The biggest difference is weight of club, lighter swings faster, and size of the effective hitting area on the face. You can swing a modern club faster and in a less controlled manner and still get results.

[bscinstnct]

I thought the modern driver/shaft is what makes the guys with slower swing speeds more competitive.

 

[Forged4ever]

> @iteachgolf said:

> They’d still have ball speeds in the 170s. And notice how many balls were in the fairway. Play wouldn’t drop off as much as you think. Kinda like how the groove rule was supposed to make scrambling harder, but from day 1 it actually made it easier and more predictable

 

Great point Dan!

 

Do you think that it would be more difficult for a younger golfer, 15-20yo, and I’m talking an elite Player though not world class, to hit those old drivers versus the 460’s that they’ve learned on, or would it make no difference?

 

And as Basic brings up, does the larger head size allow the slower swingers to be more competitive than the smaller heads of the 80’s?

 

Have a great season⛳️

 

My Best,

RP

[farmer]

Strictly a golf forum meme. The tour is a marketing engine for golf companies. They will never put their sponsored players out there with one of those old steel drivers or a new/old persimmon driver, because there is no market for them. Give a tour player some acclimation time, and I doubt there would be much change.

[cardoustie]

I am sad to say I had one of those drivers. Game changers vs persimmon. I stopped wearing out the high toe spot on persimmon

These suckers were highly sought after back in my early teens.

Especially the gen 2 burner versions that came out with the Ti Sandvik shafts. Before the Big Bertha came (then the GBB and BBB) this is what every top golfer was using bar none

[iteachgolf]

> @Forged4ever said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > They’d still have ball speeds in the 170s. And notice how many balls were in the fairway. Play wouldn’t drop off as much as you think. Kinda like how the groove rule was supposed to make scrambling harder, but from day 1 it actually made it easier and more predictable

>

> Great point Dan!

>

> Do you think that it would be more difficult for a younger golfer, 15-20yo, and I’m talking an elite Player though not world class, to hit those old drivers versus the 460’s that they’ve learned on, or would it make no difference?

>

> And as Basic brings up, does the larger head size allow the slower swingers to be more competitive than the smaller heads of the 80’s?

>

> Have a great season⛳️

>

> My Best,

> RP

 

Many of those young guys are playing traditionally lofted blades, and some can hit a blade 3 iron 250+ in the air. A driver the size of a modern hybrid/3 wood I don’t think would change scoring that drastically. I think it’d change a bit of strategy but they’d still hit it over 300 and shoot low scores

[new2g0lf]

The groove rule was the biggest failure since the change of the Coke formula, it did nothing to change the game for the pro's. Unless you go across the board, all pro tours including the LPGA, you're not going to see any rollback of drivers on the PGA Tour.

[Ferguson]

> @new2g0lf said:

> The groove rule was the biggest failure since the change of the Coke formula, it did nothing to change the game for the pro's. Unless you go across the board, all pro tours including the LPGA, you're not going to see any rollback of drivers on the PGA Tour.

 

Poor compare.

 

New Coke was a marketing campaign directed at regaining market share lost to Pepsi (and others).

 

The groove rule was enacted with the intent to make "playing from the rough" more challenging thus promoting accuracy from the tee. It had nothing to do with marketing.

 

 

[lowheel]

And this is with the modern ball

[mocokid]

> @Forged4ever said:

> This isn’t a one of those auto-traction threads or emotionally charged subjects that will run for pages though I thought that it was a pretty cool article~

>

> https://www.golf.com/gear/drivers/2019/05/01/taylormade-anniversary-tiger-rory-dj/amp/

>

> For me, the best line was the last where it was noted that in today’s game with today’s driver, two factors that were absolutely critical in the persimmon days and into the metal wood generation, consistency and accuracy, have basically been taken care of with the monstrous drivers of the day and have been relegated to the back burner, no pun intended, lol

>

> Stay well Gals & Gents?

> RP

>

 

Well At least TWoods could hit persimmon, very well, I think. Well at least in the off season at one point.

[PoolPond]

You could completely take the driver (new or old) out of their bag and let them hit 5 woods and the scores are not going to change all that much. Hitting the ball long does not get you the low scores these guys shoot. It's short game and putting. That's why you have long drive guys who can hit it 400+ yards and I hit it 280 and we both walk off of the same home with a par. Now, If I could putt better I might have a birdie but they still have their par along with their 400 yard drive because they can chip or putt.

[Forged4ever]

> @lowheel said:

> And this is with the modern ball

>

 

Great vid Bro!!

 

Thanks for posting?

 

My Best,

RP

[Forged4ever]

> @PoolPond said:

> You could completely take the driver (new or old) out of their bag and let them hit 5 woods and the scores are not going to change all that much. Hitting the ball long does not get you the low scores these guys shoot. It's short game and putting. That's why you have long drive guys who can hit it 400+ yards and I hit it 280 and we both walk off of the same home with a par. Now, If I could putt better I might have a birdie but they still have their par along with their 400 yard drive because they can chip or putt.

 

Hello PP and thanks for taking the time to respond?

 

Distance is not the only factor in Play as direction is in my opinion, more critical than distance and to compare a first gen metal with a current 5m is only considering the distance variable, as in how many yards that they go, when the directional factor would be more of a challenge for them with a first gen driver than a current 5M. As Dan pointed out, the elite, both Ams and Pros would adapt, as I got to a competitive Plus(+2.8 to 3.2) for the first time with a persimmon driver and blades(which is all that I ever Played), and I was not elite by any stretch of mine or anyone else’s imagination, at least what I consider elite to be.

 

However, when someone “nuts” a ball, and I don’t care who they are, that ball’s gonna fly and in all likelihood roll however the margin of error is greatly reduced with an early 80’s 8.5-10.5* face than it is for an current 17-19* face, and I think that the “fringe” Players, both Ams & Pros, would have a tougher time adapting as their margin of error is much less than the big Dogs from the minute that their feet hit the floor in the morning.

 

There is just a lot more room on that 460cc driver face to hit a ball that while it may not land em center fairway, it will be extremely Playable and leave em in much better shape than the same swing/contact would on a first gen TBag driver, though as Dan stated, they would adapt.

 

Though there have been the Paul Runyans and Luke Donalds since the Tour first began and they will always be there, just to keep the big dogs on their toes, knock em on their a** when they get flat footed and keep the dream alive for every man who swings a club.

 

Anyhoo, thanks again for responding and have a nice day?

RP

[straightshot7]

> @Ferguson said:

> > @new2g0lf said:

> > The groove rule was the biggest failure since the change of the Coke formula, it did nothing to change the game for the pro's. Unless you go across the board, all pro tours including the LPGA, you're not going to see any rollback of drivers on the PGA Tour.

>

> Poor compare.

>

> New Coke was a marketing campaign directed at regaining market share lost to Pepsi (and others).

>

> The groove rule was enacted with the intent to make "playing from the rough" more challenging thus promoting accuracy from the tee. It had nothing to do with marketing.

>

>

 

? He only compared them as both being big failures...he never said they shared the same purpose.

[Titleist99]

Baseball has progressed, Football has progressed, Tennis has progressed.....Why not golf? I do not want to go back to the Feathery ball....If Old Tom Morris had a new Taylormade Iron, he would have used it!

[Forged4ever]

> @straightshot7 said:

> > @Ferguson said:

> > > @new2g0lf said:

> > > The groove rule was the biggest failure since the change of the Coke formula, it did nothing to change the game for the pro's. Unless you go across the board, all pro tours including the LPGA, you're not going to see any rollback of drivers on the PGA Tour.

> >

> > Poor compare.

> >

> > New Coke was a marketing campaign directed at regaining market share lost to Pepsi (and others).

> >

> > The groove rule was enacted with the intent to make "playing from the rough" more challenging thus promoting accuracy from the tee. It had nothing to do with marketing.

> >

> >

>

> ? He only compared them as both being big failures...he never said they shared the same purpose.

 

I took it that the same way as you, as overall poor thought process and corporate decision making and not so much the intricacies of comparing the situations apples to apples.

 

Though Fergs is on a whole different level than me so I just usually agree, give him a like and move on?

 

I liked the analogy in the abstract to demonstrate poor corporate decision making, lol

 

Sometimes ?’s to ?’s works?

 

All the Best SS?

RP

[SNIPERBBB]

Give em ballata balls. that would be more interesting.

[bladehunter]

> @iteachgolf said:

> They’d still have ball speeds in the 170s. And notice how many balls were in the fairway. Play wouldn’t drop off as much as you think. Kinda like how the groove rule was supposed to make scrambling harder, but from day 1 it actually made it easier and more predictable

 

I agree with this. But. I think it would be just the right amount to provide balance at the top.

 

Even adding 2 clubs to the average approach would make a difference.

[bladehunter]

> @Titleist99 said:

> Baseball has progressed, Football has progressed, Tennis has progressed.....Why not golf? I do not want to go back to the Feathery ball....If Old Tom Morris had a new Taylormade Iron, he would have used it!

 

 

Tom Morris was a gentleman. No chance he bagged a TM iron. Lol

[iteachgolf]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > They’d still have ball speeds in the 170s. And notice how many balls were in the fairway. Play wouldn’t drop off as much as you think. Kinda like how the groove rule was supposed to make scrambling harder, but from day 1 it actually made it easier and more predictable

>

> I agree with this. But. I think it would be just the right amount to provide balance at the top.

>

> Even adding 2 clubs to the average approach would make a difference.

 

No way it’d add 2 clubs to average approach. Ballspeed would be maybe 5 mph slower, and clubhead speed roughly 2 mph slower with steel shafted persimmon. I think they’d hit it just as far or further than a modern 3 wood. It’s not going to be a 30 yard difference

[bladehunter]

> @iteachgolf said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @iteachgolf said:

> > > They’d still have ball speeds in the 170s. And notice how many balls were in the fairway. Play wouldn’t drop off as much as you think. Kinda like how the groove rule was supposed to make scrambling harder, but from day 1 it actually made it easier and more predictable

> >

> > I agree with this. But. I think it would be just the right amount to provide balance at the top.

> >

> > Even adding 2 clubs to the average approach would make a difference.

>

> No way it’d add 2 clubs to average approach. Ballspeed would be maybe 5 mph slower, and clubhead speed roughly 2 mph slower with steel shafted persimmon. I think they’d hit it just as far or further than a modern 3 wood. It’s not going to be a 30 yard difference

 

 

Maybe so. But it begs the question. Why do we all use them then ?

[Darth Putter]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > Baseball has progressed, Football has progressed, Tennis has progressed.....Why not golf? I do not want to go back to the Feathery ball....If Old Tom Morris had a new Taylormade Iron, he would have used it!

>

>

> Tom Morris was a gentleman. No chance he bagged a TM iron. Lol

 

Real pros make their own featheries.

 

Allan Robertson was right when he fired Old Tom for switching to the gutta percha ball.

 

Breaking 80 on the Old Course used to mean something.

[lowheel]

> @cardoustie said:

> I am sad to say I had one of those drivers. Game changers vs persimmon. I stopped wearing out the high toe spot on persimmon

> These suckers were highly sought after back in my early teens.

> Especially the gen 2 burner versions that came out with the Ti Sandvik shafts. Before the Big Bertha came (then the GBB and BBB) this is what every top golfer was using bar none

 

the Big bertha was the biggest game changer for me back then.i was killing that thing even hitting it off the deck. I would venture to say 80% of tour pros were using it