Why Did I Lose So Much Distance?

[SouthLand]

Let’s dispense with the “OLD” cracks at the outset. I am certainly not a spring spring chicken.

But my ‘new’ irons are significantly shorter for me from 6i-PW, and I would love opinions as to why.

About Me:

22.4

Taking lessons. Can strike the ball well at times, but consistently undone by inconsistency. Could also use a serious commitment to better course management. Used to be a handle-dragging lowball slicer. Currently hit more of a straight ball to bigger draw, with the bad miss being dead off the hosel.

Old irons were Cobra Amp Cells:

Far as I know, they’re standard LLL. KBS Tour FST R.

New irons are Cally Apex Pros. -.50 short in Modus 105 S and 2^ flat, according to CPO.

Granted, I didn’t get fit. Mortal sin, I know. I will get fit soon, but just wanted a new set, and nabbed these. Went with a shorter length because I’m not tall, have longer arms, and was gripping down on my irons a lot with the old set. Pro was telling me to go with less offset, so Apex P it was.

I love them when I hit them well, but even then, they’re somewhere between 5-10 yards short. Flushed ball with a high trajectory on the old 7i was 160 carry. This set is usually closer to 145-150. That distance loss is pretty consistent, if on a sliding scale, throughout the set.

Obvious question is obvious. Are the differences in loft (2^) and shaft length -.75” enough to account for that distance loss? I figure the length is a wash if I’m not gripping down anymore.

I’ve always felt like I have a quick tempo and feel (overly) compact, but on the screen I take the club back farther than it feels. Normally have my hands at shoulder height or just above on basic iron swings in the lessons at least.

So, what is it?

A) More trad lofts

B) Shorter shafts

C) Worse fit for shafts

D) All of the above and your swing sucks now because you’re playing new sticks for the first time in seven years and it’s in your head ?

Oddly, I bought a 5i Apex in a Standard LLL Recoil (760). That thing I crush, and it goes as far or further then my 4H.

Musings, insights, insults, and jests all welcome.

[LUXOR54]

Weaker lofts, shorter shaft, inconsistent strike. Sounds like a recipe for 10 yards shorter per club. I've also heard that the apex pro can be pretty punishing distance wise if not struck well, that can be said for pretty much everything in that category, but I've seen it brought up a few times with the apex especially. Think about it, if these clubs are half a club weaker in loft, and you're hitting it 5 or more yards shorter, the loft difference itself can be most of that.

[greenwavegolfer]

D. The 2º loft is likely 5-7 yards and the -.75" could easily be another 3-5. Throw in inconsistency of strike and the fact that it can just take time to adjust and it's not surprising in the least. A fitting might help, but tough to say anything about the shafts because so many other variables have changed as well.

[jol]

Like everyone above says. The equipment changes you made are huge.

i know it is heresy in this group to say it, but trying to fix an inconsistent swing with equipment is often a waste of $$$. I know, I have tried it. It is difficult to appreciate any equipment changes till your swing is consistent. The bright side is that when you have a consistent swing, equipment changes that are beneficial are more obvious.

[MattyO1984]

D. All of the Above - for sure!

 

Taking your old 5 iron as an example you have gone from 24 degrees and 38.5 inches in length to 26 degrees in 38 inches. On a basic level, not looking at club head technology, etc, etc - that is on the face of it going to lose you some distance. Add in quite the change when it comes to shafts not only in flex but feel and 10 yards disappearing is no surprise to me before inconsistent swinging is even introduced to the party.

 

I seriously hope that your Pro at least made the suggestion that you did get fit, otherwise selling someone what they have compared to your last set, all the while being a 20+ handicap seems strange.

[VA golfer]

Typically for each degree of loft you will lose between 4-6 yards of carry distance. There is your answer. Don't get hung up on what number is on the club. Just get your new numbers dialed in. I have always hit my driver long and my irons short in comparison. Get a fitting to make sure the shafts fit your swing and that the clubs are a fit for you. Once that is done don't get hung up on what iron you hit a certain distance. Find your new normal with whatever new irons you have and play it.

[newbsauce]

I thought the heuristic was 2 yards for each degree of loft plus 8 yards for each inch of length.

So in the 5-iron example above:

2 degrees * 2 yards + 1/2 inch * 8 yards = 4 yards lost due to loft + 4 yards lost due to speed = total 8 yards lost

[Oqvist]

Loft, shaft length and less perimeter weighring so you loose more on off center shots?

[setter02]

2* of loft difference, irons likely spin more than previous set, .75" shorter and 20+ capper hitting players irons like a 20+ capper. Seems to check all the boxes as to why they are shorter.

 

Also curious on this 'Pro' and just saying to 'go with a set with less offset'. Not sure he/she is doing their job well or in your best interests if this is what they've left you with regarding information to make an actually informed decision on equipment purchases. Personally, I'd steer well clear of them in the future regardless if they have good intentions.

[kcsf]

This may sound harsh, but care less about how far you hit your new irons compared to your last set, and more about simply how far you hit them. My current set is a full club shorter than my Ping i500's, but I don't really care as the adjustment took only a few rounds. So I hit my 7 iron 170 now instead of 185, big whoops. You have a sweet set of new clubs, enjoy them.

 

(caveat: if your new clubs don't fit you, of course adjust so they do)

[cgasucks]

Higher handicappers will have a bit of a rude awakening when they go from GI and SGI clubs to player's irons. Even though the Apex Pros are CB they are still on the little on the unforgiving side. It is all about the quality of strike. Just be glad you didn't go in to an old school 1980s era set of blades where their PW has the loft and length of a gap wedge or you'll have a real rude awakening.

I personally think you're not ready for them yet and stick to GI and SGI clubs. Once you can hit more solid shots from them consistently, then maybe you can move over to more demanding clubs. This is coming from personal experience.

[RainShadow]

 

cgasucks is right.

As a 22 index, you're not hitting the center of the club face all that often ( assuming you don't 4 putt every green :P ), hence the distance loss.

You'd be better served getting fit for some GI irons. You could always hang onto the Apex Pro ( not super forgiving BTW ) set until your game improves. They are a great set you may "grow" into. Especially if you're seeing results from your lessons.

You could probably find an eye pleasing GI set since a lot of OEMs are trying hard in this area. Mizuno Hot Metals, Cobra F9 and Callaway Apex are all good options. Titleist AP1s are another.

I'm 59yo, consistent 7-8 index ( high 70's -low 80's scores) and while I love the feel of a well struck forged blade, my distance and consistency suffers when I play them.

 

 

[nlinneman20]

Seems extreme, that means if you have a 5 degree gap between some clubs your talking 20-25yard diff? Then if you consider the naturally shorter shafts as you go down the irons...it would end up being 30 yards or so diff?

[tsecor]

4-6 yards is very extreme for each degree of loft.....its normally 2 yards but you can easily make that yardage up with a shaft that works for you.....you did make the mortal sin because obviously that combo you purchased does not maximize your or even dial in consistent distances....its not about how far you hit it, but how accurate you are and how tight your dispersion is and just knowing how far each club will go regardless of lofts

[wcgolfer]

Apex Pros are pretty demanding clubs for a 22 capper.

[Chuck905]

Lofts are not my first priority with my last experience. I am currently on a set of Ping i210 (2-PW = 17*-45*) with LX shafts vs 2018 Callaway Apex MB (2-PW = 18*-49*) in Rifle shafts yet they get to the same distances.

[Seidinho]

Agree with the others here - it’s a combination of length, lofts, and clubs. The way you describe your game, apex pros are not the best choice.

[Tommyj]

I completely agree with this. I'm just wondering how a 22 who admits to being inconsistent ends up with Apex Pros. Hope you bought them used so you don't lose anything if you decide to take a step back and get something which is maybe better suited to your skill level.

[VA golfer]

My apologies for misleading info on yardage loss. I was basing my info on loft only for Irons forgetting to take into account the shorter shafts affect on that yardage also.

[cgasucks]

If it makes the OP feel better, when I started in 2000 I stupidly bought a set of FG-17s (and 1971 Button Backs) thinking I would be learning the swing faster. I was dead wrong. They're were super unforgiving for me that that time. My misshits where way shorter than the OP's Apex Pros mishits. Eventually, I wised up a little bit and bought a set of 845s and used them for quite a while (and other CBs along the way) until I was good enough to hit blades again many years later (as you can see in my signature).

Despite giving me a lot of grief in the beginning, I didn't sell off the Wilson Staffs. Thank God I didn't since I can hit them well these days but even on solid hits they are still shorter than today's blades because of their weaker lofts and shorter club lengths (50d PW with a length of a Gap Wedge)

[double_d]

It looks like the lofts are weaker on your new irons for one thing. Once I saw that I pretty much quit speculating on anything else.

[BCULAW]

Lofts, shaft length, and shaft stiffness.

I am on a bit of an iron shaft crusade at the moment. I’ll admit that my path is not for everyone, but I recently switched from x-stiff to REGULAR and am playing the best golf of my life.

I’m a former professional baseball player in my mid-40s and can still move the club. I have always been fit into x-stiff through the bag. Over the years, I have tinkered with a lot of clubs and always seem to have success with regular flex shafts for some reason. To be clear, stiff flex shafts hardly ever perform for me. X-stiff shafts always seemed to offer the best combination of launch, distance, and spin.

Over the years, though, I’ve had these “happenings” (rental set, borrowed driver, etc.) with regular flex shafts where I played really good golf. I’d tinker for a couple of weeks and then move back into the stiffer shafts.

Well, this time, I decided to stick with it for a bit. I’m currently playing Ping Blueprints with KBS Tour 110 Regular (coming off Titleist 716MB with Modus 120x). My last 5 outings include 2 rounds at level par, 2 rounds under par, and one round at +4. For comparison’s sake, the +4 round would have been one of my better efforts prior to the switch.

My point (and my crusade) is that I believe a lot of people would benefit from flexing down. I’d suggest at least some part of your loss of distance is related to the shaft flex. Maybe go to your local shop and see if you can’t try the Apex Pros in a lighter flex shaft. My guess is that you won’t get all the distance back, but you might find more consistency and some of the distance you’ve lost. I bet feel and overall flight would improve, as well.

 

[GSDriver]

Besides shaft weight, lofts, etc. as others mentioned, I applaud the effort of trying to play Apex Pros, but if truly a 22.4 are those a little too much club for current skill level? No one cares, except maybe you, what club you hit, it's where ball ends up that matters.

[SouthLand]

Thanks all. Appreciate each reply and the insight.

I got the set on CPO for what to me was a very good price. Think they were less than $650, including the Apex 5i, and the 7i was the only one that had been hit. Haven’t sold my old set yet.

As to how a 22capper wound up in these, I shall elaborate. It was Quarantine. I was getting ‘new’ to me irons. Couldn’t get to a Golf Galaxy to hit anything I wanted. Spent a lot of time online trying to find a set I could could grow into that would retain some forgiveness. Had just broken 90 for the first time and thought I was a badass. Got too impatient to wait for Phase II and CPO had a big sale. Open and shut case.

Have a fitting in two weeks with a guy who used to work in Nike’s tour van. Stoked to see what he thinks. Feel like I owe myself a true custom set and will gladly go into GI/SGI if he tells me too.

Certainly not married to these clubs, but I won’t sell ‘em. The smoke finish is too sweet, and so is the feel when I nut ‘em. Worst case, I have a range 7i to work with until I’m more consistent.

Cheers, y’all!

[jjfcpa]

You could get them bent 2* stronger which is what the Apex CF19's are. I play the CF19's and they are sweet. I guess you'd have to call them a player's distance iron.

I'm short as well and no spring chicken, but let's not go there. I also ordered my CF19's -1/2 short and with the 760 Recoil in F2 (senior), also changed the lie to 2* flat. I play to a 12 and I have good consistency hitting the sweet spot. While I can't match your distance numbers, mine are better than any other club that I've used other than the Honma XP-1, which is a GI iron. I went to club champion and got fitted for something better than the CF19 and when asked, I said I wanted more distance. He fit me into some Callaway Rogue X irons, which were longer, but when you looked at the specs it was easy to see why. The lofts are stronger.

They didn't offer the same dispersion on the course and I quickly found a home for them.

[platgof]

I guess you found out the Cobra Amps are a very good iron after all?? Your next step is Cobra Techs.

[platgof]

It is hard to find Apex19 with those shafts, and I am afraid the X Factor shafts will be too stiff.

[platgof]

I just did some research and found the 5.0 shafts would work for me, so I went ahead and ordered a set, 6-pw. I will give them a try and see what happens. I was considering the P790 Ti, but I had no luck with the original P790, or any hollow body for that matter.

[bnperrone]

All of the above. At a 22 cap I'd suggest you stick with it for a bit before you jump ship. If you've been gripping down on your old clubs then I think you made the right move on length for the current set. The loft gap of 2* on 7-irons is significant. And really, distance isn't the most important thing. You're looking for consistency and better misses. Technically we're all looking for consistency and better misses. Best of luck to you. Try not to get hung up in data and specs.

[puttingmatt]

Keep them, if you are taking lessons. You will sort it out once the practice from the swing changes take hold . There is nothing wrong with the equipment , be kind to yourself and your wallet.

Patience is learned , so is a swing. Stop trying to over do it, especially on distance. Nothing wrong as a course strategy to take more club and swing your best to the target. Your distance with increase as you learn to relax with your better tempo and swing. Learn to play golf,not golfswing.