HBO: Tiger (2021)

[Fairways_and_Greens]

I think it's pretty interesting to be honest.

 

I see it more as a "what does it really take to be a world beater". There are a lot of folks that want to be like Tiger, but have no idea what he and his father sacrificed. It shows how complex Earl and Tiger's relationship really was.

 

It really reminds me of motocross, where parents are buying $20k+ of equipment every year, and sacrifice every weekend to practice and go racing. Race parents are more "team manager" than parents. Then if the racers make it big, they are usually mid/late teens. The teens get all this money, get a real team manager, and the parents are usually hurt and looking for payback from the years of sacrifice and hundreds of thousands of dollars of investment.

 

Without Earl, there would be no Tiger. It's super clear that Tiger/Earl loved each other, but it was a father/son relationship that very few of us will ever understand. 

 

Also, I heard all the stories about in 2009 from a retired Nam helicopter pilot that worked closely with Earl in the defense industry and golfed at the same course. Based on what he said, they could have went further on Earl, but didn't.

[bladehunter]

11 minutes ago, stingerfade said:

Learned behaviors run so deep as the big rift between him and pops was the way he treated his mom with the infidelity. You’d think if you hated that you’d not do it. 

Yea but the learned sense of entitlement and superiority is very strong too.  No doubt an internal battle.  
 

At any rate. I’m in the camp of “ I don’t care what he does on his own time”.  

I mean the list of Pro golfers who’ve had marital drama is real .  And most are revered still. 

[jordan2240]

20 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

For example, it’s been widely reported how Tiger broke up with his first girlfriend via a letter. What a jerk, right?

I guess that was equivalent to today's method of using text or changing your relationship status on social media.

[Slippin_Jimmy]

12 hours ago, CasualLie said:

The reality is many men have had a downward spiral that makes TW's escapades look quite boring.  Many men, from CEOs to other high profile positions are in the midst of much worse activities, they just haven't been caught.  When TW got "caught", as the details started coming out and Rachel was in the tabloids, my first reaction was "what an amateur", my neighbor had a much more spectacular fall.

 

With all due respect, I don't agree with this at all.  Tiger was carrying on affairs with more than 10 women, so it wasn't just some one-time mistake or lapse in judgment, and the common thread seemed to be how poorly he treated the women in his life.  He could get away with this behavior only bc he was so famous.  In my opinion that is a very unique and odd set of circumstances and any real documentary of his life would have to examine them, especially considering the role his personal life played in the (mostly) disappointing second half of his career, and his ensuing comeback and return to the top.

[CasualLie]

44 minutes ago, Slippin_Jimmy said:

 

With all due respect, I don't agree with this at all.  Tiger was carrying on affairs with more than 10 women, so it wasn't just some one-time mistake or lapse in judgment, and the common thread seemed to be how poorly he treated the women in his life.  He could get away with this behavior only bc he was so famous.  In my opinion that is a very unique and odd set of circumstances and any real documentary of his life would have to examine them, especially considering the role his personal life played in the (mostly) disappointing second half of his career, and his ensuing comeback and return to the top.

 

Affairs with 10 women?  Hardly.  Repeatedly slept with a bunch of them sure, but no man can manage emotional attachment to 10 different women at the same time.  According to my ex-neighbor, three is the limit; four is where it falls apart!  I could detail far worse real life scenarios (none of the perpetrators famous), but it is not that kind of website!  

 

A real documentary would not overblow any role of his personal life in his (according to you) disappointing 2nd half career.  Did he get a bad back and knee from having affairs? (Ha!  Careful, I know what some of you are thinking!). A real documentary would simply show coincidentally the scandal broke at a time his body was really breaking down, and then came the golfing odyssey of trying to get healthy.  We were all there, so I don't know what kind of insight a documentary could add.  Likely, there was a time when even TW would call his later career disappointing, then he got a different perspective.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am no TW apologist.  Selfishly I am disappointed as well because I wanted to see Jack's record broken! But like TW, I am over it, it's just golf.  

 

Frankly, I am disappointed in HBO.  First this rehash, and now a reboot of SITC without Samantha?!  What?  Are they running out of good scripts?

Edited January 12, 2021 by CasualLie

[bscinstnct]

39 minutes ago, Slippin_Jimmy said:

 

With all due respect, I don't agree with this at all.  Tiger was carrying on affairs with more than 10 women, so it wasn't just some one-time mistake or lapse in judgment, and the common thread seemed to be how poorly he treated the women in his life.  He could get away with this behavior only bc he was so famous.  In my opinion that is a very unique and odd set of circumstances and any real documentary of his life would have to examine them, especially considering the role his personal life played in the (mostly) disappointing second half of his career, and his ensuing comeback and return to the top.

 

“very unique”

 

You mean, very unique to famous people.

 

Tiger is hardly “unique” as far as rich athletes cheating on their wives multiple times.

 

 

“Faldo's first marriage to Melanie Rockall in 1979 lasted four-and-a-half years until he was caught cheating with his manager’s secretary Gill Bennett, who he married.

He met university student Brenna Cepelak, 20, in 1995 before dumping her for Swiss PR girl Valerie Bercher in 1998 - irate Brenna smashed up his Porsche with a golf club.

They divorced in 2006 and he was later spotted with Hulya Parta – but then began dating Lindsay in 2018.“

 

Golf legend Nick Faldo to wed former stripper Lindsay De Marco – who has criminal record for drugs and SIX ex-husbands

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-sun.com/sport/1351146/golf-nick-faldo-wed-stripper-lindsay-de-marco-criminal-drugs-six-husbands/amp/

 

 

[CasualLie]

Faldo is amateur hour as well.  The true hero is Monty.  Now there's a fool...

 

Poor Colin, gets cheated on, then cheats back...repeatedly, gets caught, signs a postnuptial, and then sues for the money back!

 

But hey, he did win that 2010 RC as captain that was so important to him!  That cost a fortune!

[capking]

6 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

“very unique”

 

You mean, very unique to famous people.

 

Tiger is hardly “unique” as far as rich athletes cheating on their wives multiple times.

 

 

“Faldo's first marriage to Melanie Rockall in 1979 lasted four-and-a-half years until he was caught cheating with his manager’s secretary Gill Bennett, who he married.

He met university student Brenna Cepelak, 20, in 1995 before dumping her for Swiss PR girl Valerie Bercher in 1998 - irate Brenna smashed up his Porsche with a golf club.

They divorced in 2006 and he was later spotted with Hulya Parta – but then began dating Lindsay in 2018.“

 

Golf legend Nick Faldo to wed former stripper Lindsay De Marco – who has criminal record for drugs and SIX ex-husbands

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-sun.com/sport/1351146/golf-nick-faldo-wed-stripper-lindsay-de-marco-criminal-drugs-six-husbands/amp/

 

 

That’s fair but no non golfers know who he is, everyone knows who Tiger is and that’s why it’s a story. If Tom Brady had the same thing come out publicly it would be just as big.

[CasualLie]

Well...kind of.  "Hero" TB12 dumped one supermodel while pregnant to be with another supermodel.  All those Super Bowls later, no one cares.

 

Will that be in the documentary?!

Edited January 12, 2021 by CasualLie

[capking]

1 minute ago, CasualLie said:

Well...kind of.  "Hero" TB12 dumped one supermodel while pregnant to be with another supermodel.  All those Super Bowls later, no one cares.

 

Will that be in the documentary?!

Did she smash his suv with a deflated football while he was leaving?

[bscinstnct]

3 minutes ago, capking said:

That’s fair but no non golfers know who he is, everyone knows who Tiger is and that’s why it’s a story. If Tom Brady had the same thing come out publicly it would be just as big.

Oh, I agree that the media and public all drool over Tiger. Fans and non-fans can’t get enough and the media makes billions off of it.

 

I haven’t seen it yet but in the preview I saw, one quote stood out...

 

 

 

“The problem with conquering the world is that the world is going to want it’s revenge”

 

 

 

[capking]

1 minute ago, bscinstnct said:

Oh, I agree that the media and public all drool over Tiger. Fans and non-fans can’t get enough and the media makes billions off of it.

 

I haven’t seen it yet but in the preview I saw, one quote stood out...

 

 

 

“The problem with conquering the world is that the world is going to want it’s revenge”

 

 

 

the first episode isn’t negative towards him at all in my opinion 

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, capking said:

Did she smash his suv with a deflated football while he was leaving?

 

How long ago was that now?

 

Amazing that 12 years later, after literally millions of hours of media time, books, articles, message board obsession

 

12 years later people still are drawn to Tigers story like a magnet

 

In fact,

 

You could say that this says as much about human nature of the masses as it does about TW ; )

[capking]

21 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

How long ago was that now?

 

Amazing that 12 years later, after literally millions of hours of media time, books, articles, message board obsession

 

12 years later people still are drawn to Tigers story like a magnet

 

In fact,

 

You could say that this says as much about human nature of the masses as it does about TW ; )

I just remember the south park episode with it 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

35 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

Well...kind of.  "Hero" TB12 dumped one supermodel while pregnant to be with another supermodel.  All those Super Bowls later, no one cares.

 

Will that be in the documentary?!

Back in 2009-2010 TB12 was a pimple on TWs butt in terms of global recognition--- still is today.   TW the dominator of a global sport also had a squeaky clean reputation, family man, all round good guy image and profited millions by selling that image--- he was everywhere.  For the public to learn about the depth and scope of his deceit was huge news.  Especially how it came to light with a smashed SUV, Fire Hydrant and an angry wife wielding a golf club.  That's huge shocking news!  Whereas TB is comparatively just another guy leaving his pregnant wife for another---small news compared to TW. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[Slippin_Jimmy]

CasualLie & basinstnct, we disagree.  It's OK.  I respect your opinions/perspectives.

 

Faldo at his peak wasn't 1/100th as famous as Tiger, most casual sports fans in the US know him as an announcer or not at all. Brady is closer to Tiger in terms of fame, but the situations are totally different.

 

Firstly, the HBO doc hasn't even gotten to the affairs yet, so we won't know how it's shown until next week anyway.  I don't see how you can have a complete documentary on Tiger and not get into how he treated the women in his life.  By most accounts, he was selfish and disrespectful to his wife and mistresses.  But yet, his HS/College girlfriend said in the doc that he was a nice guy, he was fun, he treated her well (until the cold breakup, of course).  So what happened to Tiger along the way that made him who he is?

 

My guess is the doc will show that a level of fame no one could have prepared him for changed who he was, and we'll probably feel some empathy for him.  

[stingerfade]

53 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

 

Affairs with 10 women?  Hardly.  Repeatedly slept with a bunch of them sure, but no man can manage emotional attachment to 10 different women at the same time.  According to my ex-neighbor, three is the limit; four is where it falls apart!  I could detail far worse real life scenarios (none of the perpetrators famous), but it is not that kind of website!  

 

A real documentary would not overblow any role of his personal life in his (according to you) disappointing 2nd half career.  Did he get a bad back and knee from having affairs? (Ha!  Careful, I know what some of you are thinking!). A real documentary would simply show coincidentally the scandal broke at a time his body was really breaking down, and then came the golfing odyssey of trying to get healthy.  We were all there, so I don't know what kind of insight a documentary could add.  Likely, there was a time when even TW would call his later career disappointing, then he got a different perspective.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am no TW apologist.  Selfishly I am disappointed as well because I wanted to see Jack's record broken! But like TW, I am over it, it's just golf.  

 

Frankly, I am disappointed in HBO.  First this rehash, and now a reboot of SITC without Samantha?!  What?  Are they running out of good scripts?

We’ll never know how many but it was definitely way more than 10. A friend of mine knows a waitress at the W ion nyc that slept with him. She isn’t in any of the reports. So how many more? I don’t care but it is interesting the lives of the rich and famous sports heroes 

[bscinstnct]

12 minutes ago, Slippin_Jimmy said:

CasualLie & basinstnct, we disagree.  It's OK.  I respect your opinions/perspectives.

 

Faldo at his peak wasn't 1/100th as famous as Tiger, most casual sports fans in the US know him as an announcer or not at all. Brady is closer to Tiger in terms of fame, but the situations are totally different.

 

Firstly, the HBO doc hasn't even gotten to the affairs yet, so we won't know how it's shown until next week anyway.  I don't see how you can have a complete documentary on Tiger and not get into how he treated the women in his life.  By most accounts, he was selfish and disrespectful to his wife and mistresses.  But yet, his HS/College girlfriend said in the doc that he was a nice guy, he was fun, he treated her well (until the cold breakup, of course).  So what happened to Tiger along the way that made him who he is?

 

My guess is the doc will show that a level of fame no one could have prepared him for changed who he was, and we'll probably feel some empathy for him.  

 

SJ, we are mostly on the same page.

 

And I agree that Faldo can’t be compared to TW as far as accomplishments or fame.

 

Here is what I said to capking,

 

“Oh, I agree that the media and public all drool over Tiger. Fans and non-fans can’t get enough and the media makes billions off of it.

 

I haven’t seen it yet but in the preview I saw, one quote stood out...

 

“The problem with conquering the world is that the world is going to want it’s revenge”

 

Also, 

 

“Amazing that 12 years later, after literally millions of hours of media time, books, articles, message board obsession

 

12 years later people still are drawn to Tigers story like a magnet

 

In fact,

 

You could say that this says as much about human nature of the masses as it does about TW ; )”

 

 

Many of us actually watched TWs career, his rise, the fall. In fact, some of us remember how insane golfwrx message boards went the night of and in the aftermath of that fateful thanksgiving!

 

So, for some of us, really nothing about the hbo show will be a surprise. There’s some titalating tis bits and renewed focus on how overbearing Earl was.

 

But, nothing new under the sun for most of us.

 

Tigers story is insane. 
 

 

 

[One Putter]

2 hours ago, capking said:

the first episode isn’t negative towards him at all in my opinion 

Seriously, people who dont watch it but wanna comment on it anyway are interesting...

 

They just kinda tell you what happened and some background stuff and leave you to draw your own conclusions. It isn't "oh earl is just an word not allowed and so is tiger". It's "here are some of the crazy things about being a 15 year old kid that everyone wants a piece of". 

 

Also, what a massive fail by Tiger's agent. "Hey we don't like this documentary, but we're going to put out this big official statement and draw attention to it". Genius move bud.

Edited January 12, 2021 by One Putter

[bvmagic]

I enjoyed watching the first episode, I'm a big Tiger fan but admit I did not know much details that they revealed so far.  It was interesting to hear from those close to his family growing up.  After watching the PNC father son tournament and this 1st episode, I hope Charlie can just enjoy being a kid and away from all the attention.  

[Ferguson]

6 hours ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

I think it's pretty interesting to be honest.

 

I see it more as a "what does it really take to be a world beater". There are a lot of folks that want to be like Tiger, but have no idea what he and his father sacrificed. It shows how complex Earl and Tiger's relationship really was.

 

It really reminds me of motocross, where parents are buying $20k+ of equipment every year, and sacrifice every weekend to practice and go racing. Race parents are more "team manager" than parents. Then if the racers make it big, they are usually mid/late teens. The teens get all this money, get a real team manager, and the parents are usually hurt and looking for payback from the years of sacrifice and hundreds of thousands of dollars of investment.

 

Without Earl, there would be no Tiger. It's super clear that Tiger/Earl loved each other, but it was a father/son relationship that very few of us will ever understand. 

 

Also, I heard all the stories about in 2009 from a retired Nam helicopter pilot that worked closely with Earl in the defense industry and golfed at the same course. Based on what he said, they could have went further on Earl, but didn't.

 

E. Stoller, former commander and pilot of the Scorpion Attack Helicopter?  

 

[pma1048]

6 hours ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

I think it's pretty interesting to be honest.

 

I see it more as a "what does it really take to be a world beater". There are a lot of folks that want to be like Tiger, but have no idea what he and his father sacrificed. It shows how complex Earl and Tiger's relationship really was.

 

It really reminds me of motocross, where parents are buying $20k+ of equipment every year, and sacrifice every weekend to practice and go racing. Race parents are more "team manager" than parents. Then if the racers make it big, they are usually mid/late teens. The teens get all this money, get a real team manager, and the parents are usually hurt and looking for payback from the years of sacrifice and hundreds of thousands of dollars of investment.

 

Without Earl, there would be no Tiger. It's super clear that Tiger/Earl loved each other, but it was a father/son relationship that very few of us will ever understand. 

 

Also, I heard all the stories about in 2009 from a retired Nam helicopter pilot that worked closely with Earl in the defense industry and golfed at the same course. Based on what he said, they could have went further on Earl, but didn't.

 

 

I wish they would have went further on Earl.  Honestly, I find his story much more interesting than Tiger's.   

[puttfordoux]

This is HBO's moneygrab...I'm not falling for it. I saw the Tiger saga once, not going to do it again.

Edited January 12, 2021 by puttfordoux

[Fairways_and_Greens]

1 hour ago, pma1048 said:

 

 

I wish they would have went further on Earl.  Honestly, I find his story much more interesting than Tiger's.   

Probably because it's the basic human drama... just trying to do the best we can in life and put our kids in a better position than we were without passing on our baggage... and dealing with the consequences of our actions later.

 

 

[Steele47]

His parents wouldn't let him settle for Parr.

 

[A.Princey]

Part one seems to be decent back-story on his teenage development and transformation from nerdy high-school kid to relentless competitor and driven champion, as a result of a maniacal, ego-driven father. Part 2 will be the absolute unnecessary trash.

[CasualLie]

10 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Back in 2009-2010 TB12 was a pimple on TWs butt in terms of global recognition--- still is today.   TW the dominator of a global sport also had a squeaky clean reputation, family man, all round good guy image and profited millions by selling that image--- he was everywhere.  For the public to learn about the depth and scope of his deceit was huge news.  Especially how it came to light with a smashed SUV, Fire Hydrant and an angry wife wielding a golf club.  That's huge shocking news!  Whereas TB is comparatively just another guy leaving his pregnant wife for another---small news compared to TW. 

 

Squeaky clean???  Only to those unfamiliar.  Maybe I just have more access, but let's just say the whole "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" is kiddie pool territory.  The private bungalows at Bellagio are next level.

 

TW's story is only shocking for the sheltered / media overdrive.  To me it's just comedy.  So funny in fact I ordered 100s of wrist bands with WWTD (what would tiger do) to piss on the other crowds with similar nonsense wrist bands.  But yes, it was huge news, not because he was so different, or such a clean image, but because the media just loves to act like sharks.

 

This is why it is so much easier to keep it between the ropes. As Sir Charles said, I am not a role model.  TW profited off of his image because people bought into that image.  Are people's lives so deplete they need to model someone they know so little about?  I guess so.

 

I will always have three great memories of TW first hand:

1. Watching him play at Stanford (casual round, just a few of us) as a freshman.  He did things that just seemed impossible on a course that is not easy.

2. Having a brief chat about staying in Ayrshire in 2009 at Turnberry.  I made him (well not purposely, it was just a glance) open the door to the clubhouse.  When I told him to step it up, he laughed about it.

3. Later that year standing on the Cal sidelines laughing my A off when the Cal fans booed the hell out of him at Stanford! during halftime at the Big Game when he was getting into the Stanford Sports HOF.

 

Wow, who knew just days later, the superstar was about to crash hard?!  Still, never bought into the squeaky clean image, and never cared.  His golf over decades has been spectacular, fun to watch, all credit due, let's just leave it at that.

 

A reasonable person would agree, TW is once in a generation or two or three...changed the game.  It really does not matter how he got there...he got there.

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by CasualLie

[parforme]

Thought part one was excellent.  There is no question that much of this was already well known to the public.  However the level of mind control exercised by Earl AND Tido was insane, and would qualify as child abuse.  It did succeed in what it was intended to do, create arguably the world's greatest golfer, but at what cost.  

 

I read a number of posts about Tiger loving his father, but if you are familiar with Stockholm syndrome, you really have to wonder.  Tiger's is the ultimate narcissist - stiffing the wait staff because they should be honored to serve him, failure to develop friendships with his fellow tour players, and his endless affairs.  I am sure Earl would say it was all worth it.  I wonder if Tido would.

[soregongolfer]

11 hours ago, CasualLie said:

Well...kind of.  "Hero" TB12 dumped one supermodel while pregnant to be with another supermodel.  All those Super Bowls later, no one cares.

 

Will that be in the documentary?!

Supermodel?  It was Bridget Moynahan and they had broken up before he knew she was pregnant.  And FTR, they weren't married.  

Edited January 13, 2021 by soregongolfer

[bscinstnct]

3 hours ago, parforme said:

Thought part one was excellent.  There is no question that much of this was already well known to the public.  However the level of mind control exercised by Earl AND Tido was insane, and would qualify as child abuse.  It did succeed in what it was intended to do, create arguably the world's greatest golfer, but at what cost.  

 

I read a number of posts about Tiger loving his father, but if you are familiar with Stockholm syndrome, you really have to wonder.  Tiger's is the ultimate narcissist - stiffing the wait staff because they should be honored to serve him, failure to develop friendships with his fellow tour players, and his endless affairs.  I am sure Earl would say it was all worth it.  I wonder if Tido would.

 

I wonder if TW is still a cheap bastid with tips.