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ADVICE? Instructor Insists Bowed Wrist Is Wrong, Must Cup


ElMacho
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After a week of anticipation, I finally went to the first of three lessons at Golf Galaxy last night. Immediately, the instructor told me that my bowed wrist is wrong and that it would lead to injury. We were on Trackman with face on and DTL cameras and videos of pros for comparison. He kept showing me videos of golfers with swings that I'd prefer not to replicate and suggesting that I need copy their wrist angles. I tried to play along, but was much worse by the end of the lesson. I certainly have swing faults:  my backswing is too long, my swing path is out to in about -6 degrees, and I almost always "lose my lag" before my hands reach right thigh. Nevertheless, I just don't want to cup my left wrist.

 

Overall, he seemed quite knowledgeable and had great analogies, swing thoughts etc. but his insistence on cupping the left wrist is a problem.

 

Advice?

 

For reference, I usually shoot around 90, and swing my driver in 120s.

Edited by ElMacho
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Did you ask them why they want you to cup the wrist? Either you believe in the person or you don't. If you do and that's what they say to do, then do it. If you don't, then don't and find someone else. I don't know why you inherently would or would not want to move in a certain way. 

 

Why are you taking lessons if you apparently know everything you need to fix?

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1 hour ago, ElMacho said:

After a week of anticipation, I finally went to the first of three lessons at Golf Galaxy last night. Immediately, the instructor told me that my bowed wrist is wrong and that it would lead to injury. We were on Trackman with face on and DTL cameras and videos of pros for comparison. He kept showing me videos of golfers with swings that I'd prefer not to replicate and suggesting that I need copy their wrist angles. I tried to play along, but was much worse by the end of the lesson. I certainly have swing faults:  my backswing is too long, my swing path is out to in about -6 degrees, and I almost always "lose my lag" before my hands reach right thigh. Nevertheless, I just don't want to cup my left wrist.

 

Overall, he seemed quite knowledgeable and had great analogies, swing thoughts etc. but his insistence on cupping the left wrist is a problem.

 

Advice?

 

For reference, I usually shoot around 90, and swing my driver in 120s.

Advice?! RUN! Sure, a bowed wrist isn’t for everyone, it needs to suit your natural ability, etc, but to immediately say go “cupped”? That’s weak-sauce. If that’s what that teacher got out of seeing you swing, and it’s the first change to make, I’d run as fast as I can! There are TONS of good teachers online, in your area, etc. Golf Galaxy wouldn’t be a place I’d look for lessons... Sorry. Even local Country Club pros will offer lessons to non-members. I’d ask around, and I’d NEVER go back to that “teacher” again! Ever.

Edited by Pmookie
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Cupped or bowed in backswing is also is dependent upon how you rotate and the face position at delivery. Is he telling you to feel cupped to lessen the bow and get to a more neutral position? I sometimes will have students try to exaggerate something to counteract what they are doing to one extreme , to find a good position in the middle of the old move and the instruction I am giving them.

 

Ultimately you should have your own expectations for a lesson, and whether or not the instructor is right, maybe you need to find someone else whom you feel you can trust.  

Edited by Long Shot
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Just my opinion, but I think a cupped wrist is fine if you have a strong grip. A flat wrist at the top typically requires a more neutral grip and some bowing of the wrist at impact. 
 

Here’s a quote from Bryson DeChambeau on the subject:

 

Quote

What’s critical is that you match the angle of your left wrist at the top and at impact to the angle you establish at address. If your grip is super-strong at setup, with a noticeable cup in your left wrist, the cup had better be there at the top and at impact. If your left wrist goes flat at either position, the ball will hook. If you prefer a weak grip, but allow your left wrist to go from flat at address to cupped at the top or at impact, you’ll probably hit a slice. Yes, I know Dustin Johnson starts with a strong left hand and then bows at the top, but DJ is an athletic freak. You and I aren’t so lucky. I call this “equivalent left wrist,” and it’s yet another way to eliminate unnecessary swing variables. (Less is more!)


https://www.google.com/amp/s/golf.com/news/steal-bryson-dechambeaus-5-swing-secrets-and-find-your-perfect-plane/amp/
 

Shawn Clement teaches the same thing. 

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Probably need to go another 2 "Why?"'s deep with your instructor.  Can he explain why bowed wrist leads to injury? I can't bow,much, due to injury (fastball on the hand). Can he explain what the cupping will do for your swing?

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44 minutes ago, cwilk said:

Hogan had a slight cup in his wrist, not bowed. 
 

ben-hogan-1-e1591967137648.jpg
 

This is bowed:

 

1573310544565.jpeg

You are correct.  I had to edit my post.  I apologize for the mis info, it was as mistake.  I seem to always confuse the two. 

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32 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Probably need to go another 2 "Why?"'s deep with your instructor.  Can he explain why bowed wrist leads to injury? I can't bow,much, due to injury (fastball on the hand). Can he explain what the cupping will do for your swing?


I can take a stab at that: because players with both left wrist need a ton of rotation and side-bend to be in a suitable impact position. The impact position alone puts a tremendous strain on the back. I know, I played that way for years and am now paying for it. 

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Seems like anyone can play well with a slightly bowed wrist or a slightly cupped wrist, but probably not with an extremely bowed or cupped wrist. 

 

One thing I've noticed is that the route of the backswing has a huge impact on wrist angle at the top. If you take the club back inside you end up more cupped. An outside takeaway tends toward a bow. If you have a big issue with one or the other check your backswing path to see if it is leading you there. 

 

 

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Wrist condition at the top is largely going to dependent on your grip strength. If you have a strong grip and a bowed wrist with the face pointing to the sky, I can understand an instructor perhaps trying to lessen it. With that being said, the opposite of bowed is not cupped, as cupped at the top generally leads to more inconsistency than the other way around. You would think less bowed or flat wrist at the top would be the goal.  I would have asked exactly what the goal of the cupped wrist is. 

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Get the trail wrist extended and what the lead wrist looks like it looks like.

forcing a cupped, flat, or bowed lead wrist is making things more difficult

.

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3 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

Did you ask them why they want you to cup the wrist? Either you believe in the person or you don't. If you do and that's what they say to do, then do it. If you don't, then don't and find someone else. I don't know why you inherently would or would not want to move in a certain way. 

 

Why are you taking lessons if you apparently know everything you need to fix?

Of course I pushed back, and he made two main/good points: (1) with a bowed wrist, one cannot create enough angle at the wrist and cannot swing with the clubbed from "off of the shoulder", and (2) if one hits it thick with a bowed wrist, especially in wet conditions, it will cause an injury to the left wrist.

 

To your second question: if I knew how to fix my swing faults, I wouldn't need lessons. Unfortunately, being able to identify them doesn't fix them.

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7 minutes ago, ElMacho said:

Of course I pushed back, and he made two main/good points: (1) with a bowed wrist, one cannot create enough angle at the wrist and cannot swing with the clubbed from "off of the shoulder", and (2) if one hits it thick with a bowed wrist, especially in wet conditions, it will cause an injury to the left wrist.

 

To your second question: if I knew how to fix my swing faults, I wouldn't need lessons. Unfortunately, being able to identify them doesn't fix them.

Those are nonsense points not good  - plenty of tour pros with bowed wrists at the top - DJ, Rahm, Morikawa to name just 3.     Chunking isn't going to hurt the wrist bowed,flat or cupped - but hitting something like a root, rock etc especially can no matter the wrist condition.

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21 minutes ago, ElMacho said:

Of course I pushed back, and he made two main/good points: (1) with a bowed wrist, one cannot create enough angle at the wrist and cannot swing with the clubbed from "off of the shoulder", and (2) if one hits it thick with a bowed wrist, especially in wet conditions, it will cause an injury to the left wrist.

 

To your second question: if I knew how to fix my swing faults, I wouldn't need lessons. Unfortunately, being able to identify them doesn't fix them.

Ya ok I would find a new coach these are both really bad points. How does DJ hit the ball? 

 

Are you hitting the ball at the top of the backswing? The position of the wrist at P4 is different than at impact. The injury stuff is half cringeworthy/half hilarious. 

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2 hours ago, Pmookie said:

Advice?! RUN! Sure, a bowed wrist isn’t for everyone, it needs to suit your natural ability, etc, but to immediately say go “cupped”? That’s weak-sauce. If that’s what that teacher got out of seeing you swing, and it’s the first change to make, I’d run as fast as I can! There are TONS of good teachers online, in your area, etc. Golf Galaxy wouldn’t be a place I’d look for lessons... Sorry. Even local Country Club pros will offer lessons to non-members. I’d ask around, and I’d NEVER go back to that “teacher” again! Ever.

 

I'm open to trying to learn a new style. However, I'd prefer if he was more on board with a swing I'd like to emulate. I suppose the question is should I completely submit to his approach? Or should I make a stronger case to try to get him on board with a bowed rest at the top of the backswing?

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4 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

Ya ok I would find a new coach these are both really bad points. How does DJ hit the ball? 

 

Are you hitting the ball at the top of the backswing? The position of the wrist at P4 is different than at impact. The injury stuff is half cringeworthy/half hilarious. 

Agreed. That and the "not enough wrist angle" is wonky. Most people develop the cup because that angle is too large, probably an old school teacher who associates that angle with "good lag"

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24 minutes ago, gators78 said:

Generally I try to assume instructors are not purposely trying to screw people up. Without seeing a swing video, or the full context of the lesson, kind of hard to react to this one. 

That's fair, I'll upload a swing. I think I can do it from my phone. Just a moment.

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Just now, ElMacho said:

 

I'm open to trying to learn a new style. However, I'd prefer if he was more on board with a swing I'd like to emulate. I suppose the question is should I completely submit to his approach? Or should I make a stronger case to try to get him on board with a bowed rest at the top of the backswing?

There is zero point in trying to convince a teacher to adopt a position they don't believe in. Probably even less point than trying to force a student to adopt a position they don't believe in.

 

I have a buddy who is an instructor, he uses and teaches a "method" type swing, there is absolutely no changing his mind as to why he teaches it. He gave me an unsolicited free lesson once, it absolutely wrenched my back for a week (I have never had back issues with golf) and his response was I'm just not used to it yet and need to keep at it. Needless to say, I ignore everything he says when it comes to the swing lol.

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