It's time, Pro's (and others) should get relief from divots...

[Krt22]

7 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

I'm not sure why people keep saying this when we obviously have a situation where that doesn't apply at all, on the green.   Why don't we play it as it lies if you plug onto the green and create a ball mark, not be allowed to fix any ballmarks in the path of your putt, etc?   

Because you roll the ball on the green and get it airborne every where else. And if you truely do plug a ball in the fairway or rough, you get relief 

[chigolfer1]

15 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Because you roll the ball on the green and get it airborne every where else. And if you truely do plug a ball in the fairway or rough, you get relief 

 

ok?  Perfect example.   If you can get relief from your ball plugging in fairway, from a philosophical standpoint, I'm not sure I understand why you can't if you randomly end up in a damaged area from a divot.

[jdl]

1 minute ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

ok?  Perfect example.   If you can get relief from your ball plugging in fairway, from a philosophical standpoint, I'm not sure I understand why you can't if you randomly end up in a damaged area from a divot.

Sure you can take this to absurd levels. Hit your ball into a water hazard? Bust out the scuba gear and play it from the bottom of the pond!

 

Lost ball? Sorry guess your round is over!

 

There have to be exceptions, it's just matter of how far you want to go. The fewer the better, IMO.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

5 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

ok?  Perfect example.   If you can get relief from your ball plugging in fairway, from a philosophical standpoint, I'm not sure I understand why you can't if you randomly end up in a damaged area from a divot.

 

I tend to agree, normally you would have playing partners verify you are plugged or police yourself. I don't get why of all rules/potential rules we can't trust golfers to not abuse what would be considered a divot. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by TLUBulldogGolf

[Krt22]

46 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

ok?  Perfect example.   If you can get relief from your ball plugging in fairway, from a philosophical standpoint, I'm not sure I understand why you can't if you randomly end up in a damaged area from a divot.

What does philosophy have to do with the rules of golf? 

 

A plugged lie is due to course conditions, ending up in a divot is random bad luck. Should balls that go OB, hit something hard and bounce back be considered OB?

[chigolfer1]

2 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

What does philosophy have to do with the rules of golf? 

 

A plugged lie is due to course conditions, ending up in a divot is random bad luck. Should balls that go OB, hit something hard and bounce back be considered OB?

 

Having to play from a divot instead of being rewarded for putting your ball in the fairway is literally "course conditions."

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

Having to play from a divot instead of being rewarded for putting your ball in the fairway is literally "course conditions."

It's not the same thing. One can impact the entire course due to weather or over-watering. The other is again bad luck

 

Should we count balls that hit OB and bounce back as OB? I mean the ball left the course

[chigolfer1]

2 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

It's not the same thing. One can impact the entire course due to weather or over-watering. The other is again bad luck

 

Should we count balls that hit OB and bounce back as OB? I mean the ball left the course

 

I don't understand how that analogy is the same.   That isn't course conditions.

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

I don't understand how that analogy is the same.   That isn't course conditions.

Because ended up in a divot is bad luck, it honestly rarely happens.  If you think we should not be punished for bad luck on good shots, why should we be rewarded for good luck on bad shots?

[chigolfer1]

1 minute ago, Krt22 said:

Because ended up in a divot is bad luck, it honestly rarely happens.  If you think we should not be punished for bad luck on good shots, why should we be rewarded for good luck on bad shots?

 

well landing in your ball mark on the green is bad luck too but we still correct for it.  

[Krt22]

Just now, chigolfer1 said:

 

well landing in your ball mark on the green is bad luck too but we still correct for it.  

That is not bad luck, try again with your philosophy. 

[chigolfer1]

17 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

That is not bad luck, try again with your philosophy. 

 

Why?  If you weren't allowed to fix it (or fix marks in your line) it would definitely be bad luck that your ball landed that way and in that position on the green.

[Krt22]

7 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

Why?  If you weren't allowed to fix it (or fix marks in your line) it would definitely be bad luck that your ball landed that way and in that position on the green.

A ball making a pitch mark is literally part of the game. When you have a ball coming in from 100ft+ at times and landing on a soft surface, it happens, it has nothing to do with luck. On the green you roll the ball, so ball marks are obviously an issue, which you are allowed to fix (yours or anyone elses). Ending up in an old divot isn't remotely the same. You are not rolling the ball and you can still hit it either way. Bad luck is not a reason to get free relief anymore than good luck is a reason to be punished.

 

If you land on the fringe and the ball makes a pitch mark and spins out of it (or a pitch mark, divot, hole, etc was was already there). It's only 1ft of perfectly mowed fringe, you want to putt it, there is a big old hole in the way of your line. Guess what, you aren't allowed to fix it. Why? Because you can still play your shot with a wedge, rolling the ball isn't the only play unlike the green. Your analogy is completely meritless 

[chigolfer1]

6 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

A ball making a pitch mark is literally part of the game. When you have a ball coming in from 100ft+ at times and landing on a soft surface, it happens, it has nothing to do with luck. On the green you roll the ball, so ball marks are obviously an issue, which you are allowed to fix (yours or anyone elses). Ending up in an old divot isn't remotely the same. You are not rolling the ball and you can still hit it either way. Bad luck is not a reason to get free relief anymore than good luck is a reason to be punished.

 

If you land on the fringe and the ball makes a pitch mark and spins out of it (or a pitch mark, divot, hole, etc was was already there). It's only 1ft of perfectly mowed fringe, you want to putt it, there is a big old hole in the way of your line. Guess what, you aren't allowed to fix it. Why? Because you can still play your shot with a wedge, rolling the ball isn't the only play unlike the green. Your analogy is completely meritless 

 

I don't know why you are ascribing one thing to luck and other things not being luck.  How does having a ball land in a certain spot and having to roll through a divot (if you weren't allowed to fix) any less being luck than where you happen to land in the fairway?

[sethdavidsdad]

1 hour ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

I tend to agree, normally you would have playing partners verify you are plugged or police yourself. I don't get why of all rules/potential rules we can't trust golfers to not abuse what would be considered a divot. 

Patrick reed is why

[Krt22]

2 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

  How does having a ball land in a certain spot and having to roll through a divot (if you weren't allowed to fix) any less being luck than where you happen to land in the fairway?

They are one in the same, which is why you aren't allowed relief in either situation, unlike the green which you keep using as an analogy.

[chigolfer1]

18 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

They are one in the same, which is why you aren't allowed relief in either situation, unlike the green which you keep using as an analogy.

 

I think something got lost in translation from my last post.  I'm not following this.

[PaulCar65]

I agree that we shouldn't get relief from Divots. But why stop there, why get relief from a cart path? Why rake bunkers?

 

And now pros get relief from a sprinkler(around the green within certain parameters) in their line of sight.

 

Just a few of my thoughts, I don't mind any of the rules as they are, but I always wonder why some are free drops while others are not.

[bobfoster]

13 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

We'll make sure to run the topics by you going forward. There's plenty of rules for way more obscure situations.

Ha! I love attempts at passive-aggressive guilt-tripping as a rhetorical tactic. Brings back such fond memories of high school so many years ago.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

5 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

Ha! I love attempts at passive-aggressive guilt-tripping as a rhetorical tactic. Brings back such fond memories of high school so many years ago.

 

And I love 8 paragraph posts wherein you belittle everyone discussing said topic as though they are beneath you. 

[bobfoster]

Just now, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

And I love 8 paragraph posts wherein you belittle everyone discussing said topic as though they are beneath you. 

Maybe you should actually read those paragraphs? Pretty specific arguments, that I've seen no one answer or even address directly. I gave an opinion. That wasn't answered, but was instead demeaned for being a "traditionalist". I never start fights - want conversations, not petty nastiness. But if someone starts it, they'll get it back in their face. I'm not Michelle Obama. You go low, I'll go lower. You want to actually have a rational discussion, I'd actually prefer that.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

2 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

Maybe you should actually read those paragraphs? Pretty specific arguments, that I've seen no one answer or even address directly. I gave an opinion. That wasn't answered, but was instead demeaned for being a "traditionalist". I never start fights - want conversations, not petty nastiness. But if someone starts it, they'll get it back in their face. I'm not Michelle Obama. You go low, I'll go lower. You want to actually have a rational discussion, I'd actually prefer that.

You said it was rare, I addressed that directly. The idea that the USGAs bandwidth for the distance debate (which I agree is important) is being diverted for a divot rule just doesn’t hold much water in my view.

[ChipStrokes]

 

good volley going here 

[bobfoster]

7 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

You said it was rare, I addressed that directly. The idea that the USGAs bandwidth for the distance debate (which I agree is important) is being diverted for a divot rule just doesn’t hold much water in my view.

Never said its attention was being diverted. Actually said there probably wasn't a chance it would be diverted for something as trivial as a divot rule. 

[joshrad_golf]

I think it will be too hard to define what a divot is. It's also quite rare for a player to end up in a divot. They have maintenance crew that comes out every night to sand every divot after the guys play. Should they then get relief from a sanded divot? What about when a divot has had a week to recover and there's some grass, but it's still an uneven surface from the shot someone hit one week ago? It'd be too hard to define. I say just keep it as is.

[Titleist84]

8 hours ago, bobfoster said:

Maybe you should actually read those paragraphs? Pretty specific arguments, that I've seen no one answer or even address directly. I gave an opinion. That wasn't answered, but was instead demeaned for being a "traditionalist". I never start fights - want conversations, not petty nastiness. But if someone starts it, they'll get it back in their face. I'm not Michelle Obama. You go low, I'll go lower. You want to actually have a rational discussion, I'd actually prefer that.

I questioned you being a traditionalist since you choose to cherry pick what should be considered "play it as it lies".  Never once threw out any insults but you sure did.  I told you to grow up and stop being childish which you are still doing.  Then you went on and on post after post changing the subject trying to threadjack which didn't work.  The topic is about divots, not your age, scores, clubhead speed, or your travel plans.

[Pastit]

11 hours ago, PaulCar65 said:

I agree that we shouldn't get relief from Divots. But why stop there, why get relief from a cart path? Why rake bunkers?

 

And now pros get relief from a sprinkler(around the green within certain parameters) in their line of sight.

 

Just a few of my thoughts, I don't mind any of the rules as they are, but I always wonder why some are free drops while others are not.

Very, very simple sir, the question not you of course. Free drops such as these you mention are categorised upon whether they are natural or artificial features.

 

The Divot question is a difficult one, we get relief on the green from pitch marks it’s easy to follow that principle into divot relief but it would be a mistake, for amateur golf at least. 

[woodriff]

On 3/8/2021 at 6:27 AM, bladehunter said:

Disagree.  It’s been discussed at great length here , and the question always is “ how do you define a divot “.  
 

this always devolves into giving players ball in hand in then fairway.  Which is a non starter.  
 

play it as you found it.  

I’m divided. But Blade has a good point. We move into a grey area on divots. Old divot, new divot, divot from them tournament. I would say that all divots be repaired with the sod, and sand. Might slow down play a bit, but repaired after the shot is hit with sand and sod would help. 

[Pastit]

13 minutes ago, woodriff said:

I’m divided. But Blade has a good point. We move into a grey area on divots. Old divot, new divot, divot from them tournament. I would say that all divots be repaired with the sod, and sand. Might slow down play a bit, but repaired after the shot is hit with sand and sod would help. 

It was tried with Macdivots, few would be a—-d to peg these things. Those reared on links have few probs.

 

Know nothing about Bermuda grass fairways except that I was told in Portugal that divots are not replaceable so are sanded. Hence the devices within buggies. 

[2bGood]

18 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

I tend to agree, normally you would have playing partners verify you are plugged or police yourself. I don't get why of all rules/potential rules we can't trust golfers to not abuse what would be considered a divot. 

In match play it could work, but in stroke play it makes no sense. There is no way to assure that the definition of divot is applied consistently amongst the field. 

 

As has been said in this thread before - have a look at the rules, and then write a sample the rule that allowed relief from a divot, including the definition of what a divot is. It not very easy, and in my view,

for me any rule that can be written, results in being able to play some version of preferred lies, which is not something I prefer. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by 2bGood