It's time, Pro's (and others) should get relief from divots...

[Titleist84]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Spitting coffee on this one, lol.

 

Getting in the childish insult while claiming to take the high road via PM to avoid the childish insults.

 

No way you can fix that "divot", haha. The sod has left the turf.

Was waiting for your poor attempt at wit response.  Please point out the insult I made.

[Hawkeye77]

I missed the resurrection - I assume it was because of Tiger?  He wasn't complaining.  

 

Sleeping dogs . . .

[MUNIGRIT]

18 pages on this huh?

[Hawkeye77]

2 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

Was waiting for your poor attempt at wit response.  Please point out the insult I made.

@bobfoster provided a thoughtful and articulate response.  You intentionally mischaracterized it to play the victim and make accusations (and now poking others, lol).  Not biting, but maybe just stick to the issue.

[Hawkeye77]

1 minute ago, MUNIGRIT said:

18 pages on this huh?

 

Hit into a divot scrape while wearing jeans and complain and this would blow up the site.

[Titleist84]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye77 said:

@bobfoster provided a thoughtful and articulate response.  You intentionally mischaracterized it to play the victim and make accusations (and now poking others, lol).  Not biting, but maybe just stick to the issue.

He did at first then resulted to insults when I brought up stymies (play it as it lies).  How did I poke others, they quoted me and I replied.  I see reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points.

 

I did stick to the issues.  I think you should get relief from a divot and should be treated similar to ground under repair.  I'll say it again, hopefully it sticks for you this time.

[MUNIGRIT]

18 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Hit into a divot scrape while wearing jeans and complain and this would blow up the site.

With4 handicap and blades too.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

17 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

He did at first then resulted to insults when I brought up stymies (play it as it lies).  How did I poke others, they quoted me and I replied.  I see reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points.

 

I did stick to the issues.  I think you should get relief from a divot and should be treated similar to ground under repair.  I'll say it again, hopefully it sticks for you this time.

As it heals when does a divot stop being a divot? When does relief become abuse when someone is just looking to fluff their ball? Who is the arbiter? 

 

The rules already allow an accommodation for preferred lies, it's called lift, clean and and place. You're entitled to play that way with your buddies if you all decide that's what you want. 

[Titleist84]

25 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

As it heals when does a divot stop being a divot? When does relief become abuse when someone is just looking to fluff their ball? Who is the arbiter? 

 

The rules already allow an accommodation for preferred lies, it's called lift, clean and and place. You're entitled to play that way with your buddies if you all decide that's what you want.

 I think you should be rewarded for hitting fairways.  That takes skill, not luck.

 

I think a divot should be defined as not having grass under your ball in an impression from the fairway.  If you and your playing partners disagree then a rules official should be brought in.  A drop would be required to avoid people trying to get a fluffy lie.  I also think a club length is too much relief make it a clubhead or scorecard length.

[golfandfishing]

23 minutes ago, Titleist84 said:

 I think you should be rewarded for hitting fairways.  That takes skill, not luck.

 

I think a divot should be defined as not having grass under your ball in an impression from the fairway.  If you and your playing partners disagree then a rules official should be brought in.  A drop would be required to avoid people trying to get a fluffy lie.  I also think a club length is too much relief make it a clubhead or scorecard length.

Quite a few fairways are hit by luck. If a players hit an ankle high snap hook that hits a brick wall and comes back into the fairway in a divot does he get relief? What if a player ropes a tee shot down the pipe on the same hole and it hits a stone marker in the fairway, rolls into the rough and into a divot? He has to play it as it lies while snaphooker gets a drop?  If you are going for “fair” golf might not be for you. I suggest a under 5yo soccer, they don’t keep score and everyone plays. It’s very fair. 

[Titleist84]

45 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

Quite a few fairways are hit by luck. If a players hit an ankle high snap hook that hits a brick wall and comes back into the fairway in a divot does he get relief? What if a player ropes a tee shot down the pipe on the same hole and it hits a stone marker in the fairway, rolls into the rough and into a divot? He has to play it as it lies while snaphooker gets a drop?  If you are going for “fair” golf might not be for you. I suggest a under 5yo soccer, they don’t keep score and everyone plays. It’s very fair. 

I've stated my opinion and a possible rule to address it.  No rule is perfect, but it would minimize luck.

 

Thanks for the advice but  I'll stick to playing golf.  Since you like luck so much perhaps the casino or day trading would be a better match for you.

[tatertot]

3 hours ago, Titleist84 said:

I see you found yours as well keyboard warrior.  

Nope, you're back.

[brutus27]

On 3/7/2021 at 9:39 PM, tgoodspe1991 said:

Just finished watching today's coverage and was pretty bummed for Westwood to see his awesome drive on 18 end up in a divot... to me, it pretty clearly affected how average his second shot was.

 

With recent rule changes, golfers can tap down spike marks on greens and fix any blemish they choose. As we're seeing on TV, Pro's can apparently get free 2-club relief from just about anywhere (/s). Yet, if you hit a great drive in the fairway that ends up in a divot, you're screwed. Why?! It seems pretty dumb. 

 

Divots aren't the natural condition of the golf course, they are a "used" condition from groups ahead of you. If you're allowed to tap down spike marks and other blemishes on a putting surface that's in "used" condition caused by those same groups ahead of you, then why not allow players to take quick relief from a fairway divot? Also, if it's a rainy tournament and playing "lift, clean, and place", you're going to be able to move your ball from that divot anyway, so just make the divot rule universal. 

 

Maybe it's just me, but I think it's time for a change.

A big fat NO on this!

I’m sure someones already said it but, if you get relief from divots you might as well play LCR thru the green.

[bobfoster]

14 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Spitting coffee on this one, lol.

 

Getting in the childish insult while claiming to take the high road via PM to avoid the childish insults.

 

No way you can fix that "divot", haha. The sod has left the turf.

That guy made me LMFAO. I actually was talking about the issue pretty seriously and thoughtfully (I hoped). Answered him twice with the reasons I disagreed with him. He completely ignored the actual points, and went personal. Naturally I responded (just for fun) at a similarly crude level. (I have a friend that says he practices 21st century Christian ethics ... "If someone hits you, turn the other cheek, if they hit you again, kill them 🤣)

 

But I hope most here get me by now (in fact, the regulars here all sort of know one another's personalities). We know weird Ferguson, and Big Stu, and you Hawkeye77, and TiScape, and golfgirlrobin, ChipStrokes and BlackDiamondPar5, bscinstinct  and Duct Tape and the incomparable aenemated. We know a couple guys that when they talk about equipment, you can take their opinions as Moses bringing down tablets from the mountain. Two or three in Rules that understand the nuances at freakish levels (that have gone to USGA week long seminars so they could be rules officials). A couple people here that have actually been professional caddies on various tours. And we have Grxgolfer and his team, that will get all Catholic School nun and whack our knuckles with a ruler should we mention the Voldemort Tour (see what I did there?)

 

I do know I get carried away, and write ridiculous TL;DR posts, often full of really boring stats ('cause I'm just a numbers junkie). My MO (as Big Stu rightly accused me of of the past). I do, however, love this game. Have been playing it for 5+ decades, and am still trying - every round - to get better. I have strong opinions - as do a lot of people here. However, I am always open to being persuaded by someone that can tell me I am wrong, and why. And have, on more than one occasion, changed my mind, altered my viewpoint due to the persuasiveness of someone's argument. Unlike a lot of America right now, I don't want to stay safe in an echo chamber, I seek opinions that challenge mine. It is how I make my business better, and how I make my golf game better. The Socratic method works, but, I mean, that doesn't mean every banal brainfart of an opinion should be taken seriously for criminy sake. 

 

Some guy with a burr under his saddle actually wants to say that a divot rule is analogous to a stymie rule? I mean, really? Stymie is objective, and frequent. Played today, five or six "want me to move my mark?". And clearly objective. Another ball is in the way, or it's not. Divot? Maybe happens every couple years, and defining a divot with the precision needed for the RoG is nearly impossible. 

 

So yeah, this guy actually PM'd me. (Again calling me "childish", and telling me to "grow up" ... spit my drink out of my nose laughing - had an amazing day watching a spectacular Open and shooting a pretty satisfying 82 - the PM might have been abusive if I was GenZ, but it was just freaking funny to me - and no, whomever this is isn't worth PMing back. That said, I have had a number of PMs develop from GRX. Last one this past winter. He saw I had lived in Mexico City, and he was doing a Mexico trip. Asked about courses and restaurants and culture and Covid restrictions and everything. Y'know, local knowledge. Think (hope) I added to his enjoyment. Those PMs I'll answer. Some child that thinks he's clever, not so much.

Bottom line of this thread to the OP? Once every two or three years you'll be in a divot. It's a freaking divot. Good grief, you don't need to change the RoG, just man up and hit the damn ball. 

 

Does this guy get modern golf at all? The USGA/R&A are trying (rightly) to simplify the RoG, not add bizarrely ornate rules that will apply once a round.

 

So I'm totally rambling (and about to go to sleep). And this post kind of totally got OT. But was actually a sort of shout-out to the amazing people I've met here, and the different perspectives I gotten from them.

 

Hoping that the OP and Divot (who PM'd me) can open their heads to this. Have strong opinions, but be open to being persuaded that they are wrong.

 

 

[ChipStrokes]

18 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

So I'm totally rambling (and about to go to sleep). And this post kind of totally got OT. But was actually a sort of shout-out to the amazing people I've met here, and the different perspectives I gotten from them.

i’m truly honored to have made the list. 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

I can't be bothered to read through all of this.

My opinion, and that's all it is and what it is worth, is that the Pros and anyone else should get 'lift, clean and place' all the time and wherever they want.

Just call it something other than golf.

[Hawkeye77]

6 hours ago, bobfoster said:

That guy made me LMFAO. I actually was talking about the issue pretty seriously and thoughtfully (I hoped). Answered him twice with the reasons I disagreed with him. He completely ignored the actual points, and went personal. Naturally I responded (just for fun) at a similarly crude level. (I have a friend that says he practices 21st century Christian ethics ... "If someone hits you, turn the other cheek, if they hit you again, kill them 🤣)

 

But I hope most here get me by now (in fact, the regulars here all sort of know one another's personalities). We know weird Ferguson, and Big Stu, and you Hawkeye77, and TiScape, and golfgirlrobin, ChipStrokes and BlackDiamondPar5, bscinstinct  and Duct Tape and the incomparable aenemated. We know a couple guys that when they talk about equipment, you can take their opinions as Moses bringing down tablets from the mountain. Two or three in Rules that understand the nuances at freakish levels (that have gone to USGA week long seminars so they could be rules officials). A couple people here that have actually been professional caddies on various tours. And we have Grxgolfer and his team, that will get all Catholic School nun and whack our knuckles with a ruler should we mention the Voldemort Tour (see what I did there?)

 

I do know I get carried away, and write ridiculous TL;DR posts, often full of really boring stats ('cause I'm just a numbers junkie). My MO (as Big Stu rightly accused me of of the past). I do, however, love this game. Have been playing it for 5+ decades, and am still trying - every round - to get better. I have strong opinions - as do a lot of people here. However, I am always open to being persuaded by someone that can tell me I am wrong, and why. And have, on more than one occasion, changed my mind, altered my viewpoint due to the persuasiveness of someone's argument. Unlike a lot of America right now, I don't want to stay safe in an echo chamber, I seek opinions that challenge mine. It is how I make my business better, and how I make my golf game better. The Socratic method works, but, I mean, that doesn't mean every banal brainfart of an opinion should be taken seriously for criminy sake. 

 

Some guy with a burr under his saddle actually wants to say that a divot rule is analogous to a stymie rule? I mean, really? Stymie is objective, and frequent. Played today, five or six "want me to move my mark?". And clearly objective. Another ball is in the way, or it's not. Divot? Maybe happens every couple years, and defining a divot with the precision needed for the RoG is nearly impossible. 

 

So yeah, this guy actually PM'd me. (Again calling me "childish", and telling me to "grow up" ... spit my drink out of my nose laughing - had an amazing day watching a spectacular Open and shooting a pretty satisfying 82 - the PM might have been abusive if I was GenZ, but it was just freaking funny to me - and no, whomever this is isn't worth PMing back. That said, I have had a number of PMs develop from GRX. Last one this past winter. He saw I had lived in Mexico City, and he was doing a Mexico trip. Asked about courses and restaurants and culture and Covid restrictions and everything. Y'know, local knowledge. Think (hope) I added to his enjoyment. Those PMs I'll answer. Some child that thinks he's clever, not so much.

Bottom line of this thread to the OP? Once every two or three years you'll be in a divot. It's a freaking divot. Good grief, you don't need to change the RoG, just man up and hit the damn ball. 

 

Does this guy get modern golf at all? The USGA/R&A are trying (rightly) to simplify the RoG, not add bizarrely ornate rules that will apply once a round.

 

So I'm totally rambling (and about to go to sleep). And this post kind of totally got OT. But was actually a sort of shout-out to the amazing people I've met here, and the different perspectives I gotten from them.

 

Hoping that the OP and Divot (who PM'd me) can open their heads to this. Have strong opinions, but be open to being persuaded that they are wrong.

 

 

I'm not much of a PM'r but 99% have all been positive, but in general like America, I've been one poor correspondent - just don't keep up enough.  Only two exceptions and both were banned many years ago - invited a PM since they just wouldn't let something go and got some serious profanity laced messages (not really what the site has in mind when they suggest that, lol).  Have a great week sir!

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Give two drops in the fairway a round, I don't like the sound of it but whatever. Of all the rules in golf and the expected honorable nature of policing yourself I don't get why a divot rule is something that is expected to be abused. 

[oikos1]

1 minute ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Of all the rules in golf and the expected honorable nature of policing yourself I don't get why a divot rule is something that is expected to be abused. 

Exactly.

[Obee]

1 hour ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Give two drops in the fairway a round, I don't like the sound of it but whatever. Of all the rules in golf and the expected honorable nature of policing yourself I don't get why a divot rule is something that is expected to be abused. 

 

I'm a big "NO WAY" to the "two drops a round" idea.

 

If someone could write a rule that eliminated (most) judgment, I might be willing to listen.

 

Divot must have a bottom consisting of "visible sand or earth" maybe?

 

Because if we go down the road where an ugly, mostly grassed-over depression that clearly used to be a divot is a divot, then we open a can of worms that will make an already slow game even slower.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

2 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Give two drops in the fairway a round, I don't like the sound of it but whatever. Of all the rules in golf and the expected honorable nature of policing yourself I don't get why a divot rule is something that is expected to be abused. 

I'd support up to 1 drop per round if you are in a divot.  It's got to be limited because there's always gonna be a few guys that want to fluff the ball and call every fairway blemish a divot, so it has to be capped. 

 

For the record I don't think there needs to be a rule.  But if I were told I must write one, that's how it would be ---1 free drop from a fairway blemish/divot per round, no closer to the hole and must be within 1 standard grip length (not club length). 

[Krt22]

Let me get this straight, these modern bomb and gouge big hitters who are destroying courses all over the world...need relief from a ball in a divot...when they at most have a flip wedge into the green?

 

Might as well play ball in hand every single round 

[golfandfishing]

25 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Let me get this straight, these modern bomb and gouge big hitters who are destroying courses all over the world...need relief from a ball in a divot...when they at most have a flip wedge into the green?

 

Might as well play ball in hand every single round 

I support no part of divot relief, but this reasoning is not it. It’s much easier to hit a 6, 7, 8 iron etc full swing out of a divot than a “flip wedge”. 

[Barfolomew]

Divots are lame.... If I could see em from the tee I would have avoided them, but I cant lol

 

I can see where the trees are so its my fault if I hit behind them but I can't see all the divots from 1000 feet away..... ya some of us here actually drive 1000 feet sometimes lol

 

I also don't wanna beat your azzz cause you landed in a divot..... I wanna beat you like a man or a woman or whatever you identify as today

 

The spirit of golf from the 14th century or whenever it was invented was is to have etiquette and be a gentleman and in that spirit I would let you take your ball out of a divot specially in a good close game and not beat you the chicken 5hit way 🐔💩

 

FIRST!!! You have to agree that divots are lame....

 

THEN AND ONLY THEN AND WAY LATER.... Do you need to worry about how the rule will take place

[Krt22]

7 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

I support no part of divot relief, but this reasoning is not it. It’s much easier to hit a 6, 7, 8 iron etc full swing out of a divot than a “flip wedge”. 

It should make zero difference for PGA tour pros.

[jdl]

Pros handle divots just fine....

 

 

 

 

[ChipStrokes]

1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

It should make zero difference for PGA tour pros.

could a 4 handicap who gets free relief from divots beat a tour pro who doesn’t?

[PorkChopExpress]

Just now, ChipStrokes said:

could a 4 handicap who gets free relief from divots beat a tour pro who doesn’t?

 

0% chance

[Krt22]

5 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

could a 4 handicap who gets free relief from divots beat a tour pro who doesn’t?

It depends...are they on golfwrx and do they play baby blades?

[PorkChopExpress]

2 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

It depends...are they on golfwrx and do they play baby blades?

 

forgot about WRX lol