It's time, Pro's (and others) should get relief from divots...

[Krt22]

17 minutes ago, PorkChopExpress said:

 

forgot about WRX lol

Key piece of info there. The avg golfwrx 4 is tournament tested and would score better if they got to play in PGA tour condidtions

[PorkChopExpress]

4 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Key piece of info there. The avg golfwrx 4 is tournament tested and would score better if they got to play in PGA tour condidtions

 

Got it, the golfwrx'er 4 handicapper expecting big end NIL deals 😂

[golfandfishing]

1 hour ago, ChipStrokes said:

could a 4 handicap who gets free relief from divots beat a tour pro who doesn’t?

We talking about a traveling 4?  

[ChipStrokes]

1 minute ago, golfandfishing said:

We talking about a traveling 4?  

yeah dude. talking about your everyday “320 with a baby fade, flush my blade irons, and id be on tour if my putter would cooperate” WRX 4cap 

[idrive]

If folks are aware of golf etiquette, then they would be replacing or filling their divots. 

 

Problem solved.

 

For the pro's, how hard would it be for a caddie to carry a small sand bottle that can be replaced when empty? Wouldn't take a terrible amount of effort to have a sand bottle rack every 3-4 holes off to the side of the tee box.

 

I know, I know, that's really complicated... 😉

[nsxguy]

3 minutes ago, idrive said:

If folks are aware of golf etiquette, then they would be replacing or filling their divots.

 

Surely you don't think the "free relief" guys would stand still for "no relief from a sand filled divot",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[bscinstnct]

13 minutes ago, idrive said:

If folks are aware of golf etiquette, then they would be replacing or filling their divots. 

 

Problem solved.

 

For the pro's, how hard would it be for a caddie to carry a small sand bottle that can be replaced when empty? Wouldn't take a terrible amount of effort to have a sand bottle rack every 3-4 holes off to the side of the tee box.

 

I know, I know, that's really complicated... 😉

 

 

Etiquette is for suckers

 

🤣

 

Just kiddin ; ) Hey, when TW was hitting out of a sand filled divot, the guy said they prefer it if the divot is actually not filled with sand?

[idrive]

3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

Etiquette is for suckers

 

🤣

 

Just kiddin ; ) Hey, when TW was hitting out of a sand filled divot, the guy said they prefer it if the divot is actually not filled with sand?

 

That I don't know. I'm sure the ones that are over filled would be worse. I just know for that for me, I'd rather hit off of ground level sand.  At least compared to a deep divot with the ball sitting in the back of it.

 

But you bring up another good point.  Everyone likes something different.  Another reason the rule isn't going to change.

[golfandfishing]

1 hour ago, ChipStrokes said:

yeah dude. talking about your everyday “320 with a baby fade, flush my blade irons, and id be on tour if my putter would cooperate” WRX 4cap 

Oh. Then definitely. 

[bobfoster]

This thread is so fun! One of those descending into an almost Salvador Dali level of surrealism. On the 19th page of talking about how terribly unfair it is that someone would (gasp!) have to hit out of a divot, and we need a new "rule" to address a situation that maybe happens to the average golfer, like, once every two or three years? (I mean, really?)

 

I'm actually wracking my brain to figure out what more utterly banal of a situation I could think of. Found a couple this weekend that I absolutely insist that the R&A/USGA deal with immediately:

 

1. I tried "spikeless" shoes for the first time Saturday (BTW, don't do that - if you have a SS over, like, 80). But one tee box was slightly damp. Usually shift my weight hard and post on the right foot on my downswing, which slipped - so total slice, and I almost fell down. Totally unfair that I should be penalized for that. We need a new RoG. I shouldn't be hurt by my choices in shoes. 

 

2. There was a downpour Saturday night, and the course I played Sunday hadn't fluffed up the bunkers. So I'm at the bottom of one, maybe 1/4 inch of soft sand (where it had dried out), but total mud underneath. Am usually good out of sand (much prefer it to thick greenside rough), but my usual "thump" turned out to be seriously fat. The club just stopped. Insane that course conditions should hurt my score. Needs to be a new rule stating that if bunkers are in anything other than optimal shape, I should get a no-penalty drop out of the bunker. 

 

This is the ultimate "tempest in a teapot" discussion. In 50+ years of golf, several thousand rounds, I've probably actually been in a divot a few dozen times, and in most of them had no problem hitting the shot I wanted. And we actually need a Rule to deal with this? Is something this utterly trivial really even a discussion?

 

(Actually, it might be. 'Cause this is WRX, and due to scheduling changes, the Real Season kinda ended after The Open, so we're going to be talking about trivialities, or arguing about the Voldemort Tour until next April when real golf starts again).

 

I know guys that are on the USGA. They really do look at golf in terms of 5 - 10 years. The future of the game. The distance debate (and there's a legitimate WRX thread about this) has recently been moved from back burner to front burner. It is a hard problem to solve, but has to be addressed. So many options and variables. Do you impose requirements on clubs, balls? On courses? Knowing that any changes you make affect 25 million American golfers, 10,000 golf course owners, and a several billion dollar equipment industry? 

 

And this idiot thinks they should focus on a freaking divot rule? 

 

Gosh, am having a lot of fun tonight.

 

 

[Valtiel]

8 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Give two drops in the fairway a round, I don't like the sound of it but whatever. Of all the rules in golf and the expected honorable nature of policing yourself I don't get why a divot rule is something that is expected to be abused. 

 

6 hours ago, Obee said:

 

I'm a big "NO WAY" to the "two drops a round" idea.

 

If someone could write a rule that eliminated (most) judgment, I might be willing to listen.

 

Divot must have a bottom consisting of "visible sand or earth" maybe?

 

Because if we go down the road where an ugly, mostly grassed-over depression that clearly used to be a divot is a divot, then we open a can of worms that will make an already slow game even slower.

The argument that this is a bad idea because of all this complexity around what does or doesn't constitute a divot and how that could slow pace of play is all bypassed via LCP on the fairways, and frankly i've never heard a non-rhetoric based argument against it. The idea that good/bad breaks are part of golf and always even out in the long run statistically can't be true when the ground conditions change throughout the day. Later tee times will always have a statistically greater chance of ending up in a divot with nothing in the otherwise random nature of good/bad breaks to even that out. LCP in the fairway removes that discrepancy with no ill effects other than to upset those prone to troglodytics. 😅

Edited July 19, 2022 by Valtiel

[ChipStrokes]

5 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

BTW, don't do that - if you have a SS over, like, 80

i still can’t wrap my head around this. i’ve heard it a bunch on this site. 

 

i’m like…50+ mph faster than that and play in sneakers. i’ve never slipped during a swing before. 

 

it’s just tough for me to understand how much foot movement is going on that people feel they need to be actually dug into the earth 

 

(i figure in a thread this silly a tangent is a welcome reprieve) 

[bobfoster]

56 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

i still can’t wrap my head around this. i’ve heard it a bunch on this site. 

 

i’m like…50+ mph faster than that and play in sneakers. i’ve never slipped during a swing before. 

 

it’s just tough for me to understand how much foot movement is going on that people feel they need to be actually dug into the earth 

 

(i figure in a thread this silly a tangent is a welcome reprieve) 

A totally welcome reprieve man.

Had a friend (75 years old) that told me I should try spikeless - you know, just these little nibs instead of spikes. Just convenience - you don't have to change your shoes at the course. No fooling around with cleaning them or changing them or spike tools. And I could stop at the grocery on the way home without changing shoes. And in truth, most of the time, they were perfectly fine on the course. But there were a couple of holes, due to wet course conditions, where my left foot didn't stick completely when I shifted weight to it (something that I totally depend upon). 

 

Now, I am old - about to turn 65 (this October). Driver SS maybe 85 - 95, (clearly not BD). 240 - 260 drives (I'm not a 320' WRXer - I'm old enough to be humble, and play within my game). But whatever distance I can generate comes from my left foot being positively stable. Entire swing revolves around that fixed point. I did buy the best spikeless I could find (actually, Johnston & Murphy - incredibly comfortable shoes), but I'm going back to my soft spike Pumas. 

 

Those two slips with the spikeless on wet tee boxes got into my head. Worrying about whether my left foot would hold is a bad swing thought.

 

And BTW, don't mean to threadjack, but this conversation is far more interesting (and relevant) than freaking divots.

Edited July 19, 2022 by bobfoster

[ChipStrokes]

1 minute ago, bobfoster said:

A totally welcome reprieve man.

Had a friend (75 years old) that told me I should try spikeless - you know, just these little nibs instead of spikes. Just convenience - you don't have to change your shoes at the course. No fooling around with cleaning them or changing them or spike tools. And I could stop at the grocery on the way home without changing shoes. And in truth, most of the time, they were perfectly fine on the course. But there were a couple of holes, due to wet course conditions, where my left foot didn't stick completely when I shifted weight to it (something that I totally depend upon). 

 

Now, I am old - about to turn 65 (this October). Driver SS maybe 85 - 95, (clearly not BD). 240 - 260 drives (I'm not a 320' WRXer). But whatever distance I can generate comes from my left foot being positively stable. Entire swing revolves around that fixed point. I did buy the best spikeless I could find (actually, Johnston & Murphy - incredibly comfortable shoes), but I'm going back to my soft spike Pumas. 

 

Those two slips with the spikeless on wet tee boxes got into my head. Worrying about whether my left foot would hold is a bad swing thought.

 

And BTW, this conversation is far more interesting (and relevant) than freaking divots.

amazing.  and that’s not sarcastic, i actually find this interesting. 

 

all those reasons you listed for going spikeless are the same reasons i gave up on golf shoes altogether. now i wear what i like, they look better, they’re more comfortable, and i don’t have to change shoes if i wanna meet the wife and little one for lunch after i play. 

 

but i’ve never once had a traction issue. i’ve played the day after a heavy rain, i’ve been an early AM dew sweeper, nary a slip. and your 95 with a driver is where i am with a PW.  i figure if there’s anyone who needs to be screwed into the earth when they swing, it’s gonna be me. 

 

im sure, like you said, the first time my left foot spins out on me is gonna stick in my head and make the rest of the day very uncomfortable on the tee box. it just hasn’t happened yet. 

[bobfoster]

4 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

amazing.  and that’s not sarcastic, i actually find this interesting. 

 

all those reasons you listed for going spikeless are the same reasons i gave up on golf shoes altogether. now i wear what i like, they look better, they’re more comfortable, and i don’t have to change shoes if i wanna meet the wife and little one for lunch after i play. 

 

but i’ve never once had a traction issue. i’ve played the day after a heavy rain, i’ve been an early AM dew sweeper, nary a slip. and your 95 with a driver is where i am with a PW.  i figure if there’s anyone who needs to be screwed into the earth when they swing, it’s gonna be me. 

 

im sure, like you said, the first time my left foot spins out on me is gonna stick in my head and make the rest of the day very uncomfortable on the tee box. it just hasn’t happened yet. 

Holy crap, you just gave me a completely new term, a "dew sweeper". Freaking love that. Because I'm in mid NJ this week (Sarasota next week, but that's another story - assuming that United can actually get pilots to fly their flipping planes). And the afternoon highs will be mid 90s with oppressive humidity. So I'm looking to get out Saturday at 6:30 - 7 AM. Which means my ball in the fairway will likely have a roostertail (if you know what that is). Don't expect to shoot my best score ever, but don't care.

 

No idea where you live CS, but I'd totally play 18 with a guy with your attitude. Not thinking either of us would whine like little babies about a ball in a divot 🤣

[ChipStrokes]

7 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

Holy crap, you just gave me a completely new term, a "dew sweeper". Freaking love that. Because I'm in mid NJ this week (Sarasota next week, but that's another story - assuming that United can actually get pilots to fly their flipping planes). And the afternoon highs will be mid 90s with oppressive humidity. So I'm looking to get out Saturday at 6:30 - 7 AM. Which means my ball in the fairway will likely have a roostertail (if you know what that is). Don't expect to shoot my best score ever, but don't care.

 

No idea where you live CS, but I'd totally play 18 with a guy with your attitude. Not thinking either of us would whine like little babies about a ball in a divot 🤣

well acquainted with rooster tails, both literal and figurative. we’ve got 15 chickens in the backyard including a rooster named Chili. 

 

and i’m in fairfield county ct. if you’re ever this way i’d be happy to get out with you for a round. 

[BIG STU]

4 hours ago, bobfoster said:

This thread is so fun! One of those descending into an almost Salvador Dali level of surrealism. On the 19th page of talking about how terribly unfair it is that someone would (gasp!) have to hit out of a divot, and we need a new "rule" to address a situation that maybe happens to the average golfer, like, once every two or three years? (I mean, really?)

 

I'm actually wracking my brain to figure out what more utterly banal of a situation I could think of. Found a couple this weekend that I absolutely insist that the R&A/USGA deal with immediately:

 

1. I tried "spikeless" shoes for the first time Saturday (BTW, don't do that - if you have a SS over, like, 80). But one tee box was slightly damp. Usually shift my weight hard and post on the right foot on my downswing, which slipped - so total slice, and I almost fell down. Totally unfair that I should be penalized for that. We need a new RoG. I shouldn't be hurt by my choices in shoes. 

 

2. There was a downpour Saturday night, and the course I played Sunday hadn't fluffed up the bunkers. So I'm at the bottom of one, maybe 1/4 inch of soft sand (where it had dried out), but total mud underneath. Am usually good out of sand (much prefer it to thick greenside rough), but my usual "thump" turned out to be seriously fat. The club just stopped. Insane that course conditions should hurt my score. Needs to be a new rule stating that if bunkers are in anything other than optimal shape, I should get a no-penalty drop out of the bunker. 

 

This is the ultimate "tempest in a teapot" discussion. In 50+ years of golf, several thousand rounds, I've probably actually been in a divot a few dozen times, and in most of them had no problem hitting the shot I wanted. And we actually need a Rule to deal with this? Is something this utterly trivial really even a discussion?

 

(Actually, it might be. 'Cause this is WRX, and due to scheduling changes, the Real Season kinda ended after The Open, so we're going to be talking about trivialities, or arguing about the Voldemort Tour until next April when real golf starts again).

 

I know guys that are on the USGA. They really do look at golf in terms of 5 - 10 years. The future of the game. The distance debate (and there's a legitimate WRX thread about this) has recently been moved from back burner to front burner. It is a hard problem to solve, but has to be addressed. So many options and variables. Do you impose requirements on clubs, balls? On courses? Knowing that any changes you make affect 25 million American golfers, 10,000 golf course owners, and a several billion dollar equipment industry? 

 

And this idiot thinks they should focus on a freaking divot rule? 

 

Gosh, am having a lot of fun tonight.

 

 

Yeah man you are on a roll here--- kinda like making a 6 birdie run

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, bobfoster said:

A totally welcome reprieve man.

Had a friend (75 years old) that told me I should try spikeless - you know, just these little nibs instead of spikes. Just convenience - you don't have to change your shoes at the course. No fooling around with cleaning them or changing them or spike tools. And I could stop at the grocery on the way home without changing shoes. And in truth, most of the time, they were perfectly fine on the course. But there were a couple of holes, due to wet course conditions, where my left foot didn't stick completely when I shifted weight to it (something that I totally depend upon). 

 

Now, I am old - about to turn 65 (this October). Driver SS maybe 85 - 95, (clearly not BD). 240 - 260 drives (I'm not a 320' WRXer - I'm old enough to be humble, and play within my game). But whatever distance I can generate comes from my left foot being positively stable. Entire swing revolves around that fixed point. I did buy the best spikeless I could find (actually, Johnston & Murphy - incredibly comfortable shoes), but I'm going back to my soft spike Pumas. 

 

Those two slips with the spikeless on wet tee boxes got into my head. Worrying about whether my left foot would hold is a bad swing thought.

 

And BTW, don't mean to threadjack, but this conversation is far more interesting (and relevant) than freaking divots.

Ha Ha got you by a month age wise---- I have been spikeless about 2 years now--- I wear regular Sketchers shoes just slip them on. No slippage issues at all. Johnston and Murphy that is a touch of class there. LOL I guess the Sketchers are my golf shoes since I only wear them to play Golf--- Rest of the time I wear Crocs even to Church heck I am retired and wear and do as I want to. 

Yeah this is more interesting than divots. Me other than the Saturday Shootout I play the ball down even on our less than pristine course. Something to me is just fun slashing a ball out of a divot with a 60 year old Blade iron. 

[imakaveli]

Imho they will never make a rule about divots because they can't find an objective definition of divot. If they try to make such a rule it will be a mess.

[davep043]

10 hours ago, bobfoster said:

On the 19th page of talking about how terribly unfair it is that someone would (gasp!) have to hit out of a divot, and we need a new "rule" to address a situation that maybe happens to the average golfer, like, once every two or three years?

This is the only thing I'm going to disagree with.  I play at a private club, not a ton of rounds played, and I've probably had a half-dozen shots from some kind of divot this year.  A couple were filled with sand, a couple were mostly grown over, and maybe one was significant.  No big deal, I coped just fine, but I think shots from divots do happen a little more often that you estimate here.  I'd still oppose any change to the Rules to allow relief from divots.

Edited July 19, 2022 by davep043

[TLUBulldogGolf]

10 hours ago, bobfoster said:

This thread is so fun! One of those descending into an almost Salvador Dali level of surrealism. On the 19th page of talking about how terribly unfair it is that someone would (gasp!) have to hit out of a divot, and we need a new "rule" to address a situation that maybe happens to the average golfer, like, once every two or three years? (I mean, really?)

 

I'm actually wracking my brain to figure out what more utterly banal of a situation I could think of. Found a couple this weekend that I absolutely insist that the R&A/USGA deal with immediately:

 

1. I tried "spikeless" shoes for the first time Saturday (BTW, don't do that - if you have a SS over, like, 80). But one tee box was slightly damp. Usually shift my weight hard and post on the right foot on my downswing, which slipped - so total slice, and I almost fell down. Totally unfair that I should be penalized for that. We need a new RoG. I shouldn't be hurt by my choices in shoes. 

 

2. There was a downpour Saturday night, and the course I played Sunday hadn't fluffed up the bunkers. So I'm at the bottom of one, maybe 1/4 inch of soft sand (where it had dried out), but total mud underneath. Am usually good out of sand (much prefer it to thick greenside rough), but my usual "thump" turned out to be seriously fat. The club just stopped. Insane that course conditions should hurt my score. Needs to be a new rule stating that if bunkers are in anything other than optimal shape, I should get a no-penalty drop out of the bunker. 

 

This is the ultimate "tempest in a teapot" discussion. In 50+ years of golf, several thousand rounds, I've probably actually been in a divot a few dozen times, and in most of them had no problem hitting the shot I wanted. And we actually need a Rule to deal with this? Is something this utterly trivial really even a discussion?

 

(Actually, it might be. 'Cause this is WRX, and due to scheduling changes, the Real Season kinda ended after The Open, so we're going to be talking about trivialities, or arguing about the Voldemort Tour until next April when real golf starts again).

 

I know guys that are on the USGA. They really do look at golf in terms of 5 - 10 years. The future of the game. The distance debate (and there's a legitimate WRX thread about this) has recently been moved from back burner to front burner. It is a hard problem to solve, but has to be addressed. So many options and variables. Do you impose requirements on clubs, balls? On courses? Knowing that any changes you make affect 25 million American golfers, 10,000 golf course owners, and a several billion dollar equipment industry? 

 

And this idiot thinks they should focus on a freaking divot rule? 

 

Gosh, am having a lot of fun tonight.

 

 

 

We'll make sure to run the topics by you going forward. There's plenty of rules for way more obscure situations.

[larrybud]

On 7/15/2022 at 8:46 PM, scotee said:

But wait!...........How on earth can a mere mortal possibly discern what is a divot?   (posted in sarcasm font)

They aren't discerning it, they're rolling it whenever they feel like it, guaranteed.

Hell, I've played with players where bumping it was practically built into their pre-shot routine.

[ChristopherMcDonald]

10 minutes ago, larrybud said:

They aren't discerning it, they're rolling it whenever they feel like it, guaranteed.

Hell, I've played with players where bumping it was practically built into their pre-shot routine.

Gotta love playing with those guys lmao

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

Divots and other course conditions are part of the game, rub o' the green, so no relief necessary.  Otherwise, there will be debates over what's a divot to further slow play.

 

Most weekend players will foot wedge it out of a divot anyway, and pros are pros so they should just deal with a poor lie.

[smashdn]

I think I have played from un-marked hard-pan more than a filled or un-filled divot.  Unless the guy took an enormous scab of a divot I haven't found it terribly difficult to play from.

 

I will sand 2-3 extra, un-filled ones while my playing partner hits.  I'll usually go through a whole sand container per 9 holes doing that.

[trilerian]

I could care less about divots anymore.  Yeah it is annoying when your ball finds a divot in the middle of the fairway, especially when you stripe one, but whatever.  I got to have an excuse why my GIR isn't high enough anyway.  As to spikeless shoes that aren't really spikeless, they work fine for me.  Well, most of the time.  There are times on certain goat tracks that when it gets wet it is like grease and I have slid down a couple of hills, but swinging a club has been fine, lol.  

[Jack Pearsall]

Play the ball where it lies is kind of the obvious mantra to golf. Guys will be bumping their ball and we are playing for money and I take exception to that unless it is announced prior to teeing off. Otherwise Jack Pearsall doesn’t care what the others are doing. Essentially, if you always play your ball where it lies, you become a better golfer...as for the Pros...JP feels they are the people many golfers look to for an example and JP likes that they don’t get relief from misfortune...bad breaks are inherent in the game, so why sugar coat it with constant reliefs...
 

*stabs a kid’s ball with a knife•

[chigolfer1]

16 minutes ago, Jack Pearsall said:

Play the ball where it lies is kind of the obvious mantra to golf. Guys will be bumping their ball and we are playing for money and I take exception to that unless it is announced prior to teeing off. Otherwise Jack Pearsall doesn’t care what the others are doing. Essentially, if you always play your ball where it lies, you become a better golfer...as for the Pros...JP feels they are the people many golfers look to for an example and JP likes that they don’t get relief from misfortune...bad breaks are inherent in the game, so why sugar coat it with constant reliefs...
 

*stabs a kid’s ball with a knife•

 

I'm not sure why people keep saying this when we obviously have a situation where that doesn't apply at all, on the green.   Why don't we play it as it lies if you plug onto the green and create a ball mark, not be allowed to fix any ballmarks in the path of your putt, etc?   

Edited July 19, 2022 by chigolfer1

[PorkChopExpress]

4 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

I'm not sure why people keep saying this when we obviously have a situation where that doesn't apply at all, on the green.   Why don't we play it as it lies if you plug onto the green and create a ball mark, not be allowed to fix any ballmarks in the path of your putt, etc?   

 

That would be interesting. If you could never touch your ball until it is holed out? Stymies, ball marks etc...

 

 

[ChristopherMcDonald]

To be honest, I rarely ever find myself in a divot from the fairway. Usually because I'm not playing my second or third shot from the fairway