I felt cheated about buying from Club Champions after hearing this ... I'm calling it SHAFTGATE!!!

[swgolf12]

3 minutes ago, cookout14 said:

People love to get heated about CC, so I'm not looking to change anybody's mind... BUT, the premium CC is charging for is not fitting "magic", it's not even a superior fit, it's proximity, availability, and reliability, at scale. 

 

A quick check of their website shows 83 locations, all exclusively dedicated to fitting.  They're presumably staffed by people with some actual qualifications and skill, and I'm guessing for the clientele they're in nicer parts of town in a reasonably nice shopping center or standalone building. 

 

Other club retailers 1) generally don't have those costs, and 2) have other revenue streams like retail, lessons, etc.  What Club Champion is offering is a standalone bay with trackman near you, a fitter with most of the OEM products currently on the market that has a spot in the next few weeks, and build that's guaranteed to be at spec with lifetime work on the club to make sure it's in good shape.  

 

Demo Days, discount websites, big box retailers all have their benefits, but they don't have the cost structure of paying for all three at the same time, & without a subsidy of some kind. 

 

I've had mixed experiences with CC personally, and don't have the budget to pay the premium for everything I buy, but they're aboveboard with their pricing, stand behind the clubs they make (both build quality and fit), and offering a particular service that fits the market right now.  That's not to say CC is a superior service or product to anything else, but the indignance at expecting them to offer the same services at the discount economics can just get out of control here.  

 

 

And in most states you can find this all without having to pay their absurd fitting fee, and paying $72 bucks per club upcharge for a shaft that is offered free by the OEM.

[cookout14]

2 minutes ago, swgolf12 said:

 

 

And in most states you can find this all without having to pay their absurd fitting fee, and paying $72 bucks per club upcharge for a shaft that is offered free by the OEM.

 

100% true- that's why nobody has to go there, or even order the clubs from them :).  Still doesn't change the genuinely mundane reasons their model and prices are what they are!

[phizzy30]

8 hours ago, cristphoto said:

If I paid for a full driver and ordered an upgraded shaft, when I picked up my order I would expect the driver and the original stock shaft too. They never gave you a credit on the shafts so they're clearly yours. Where do they think they have the right to keep a shaft that you paid for?  Same with the irons.  All their other pricing is for the customer to evaluate.  If they charge a fair price so be it. If they gouge they will lose business eventually.

Most golfers aren't aware of the significant upcharge.  It's only later they find out that they've overpaid.  You'd be surprised at how many folks that have disposable incomes don't really care how much they pay for golf clubs. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by phizzy30

[North Butte]

David Owen, in his excellent book My Usual Game had this to say about why golf is really like life.

 

In the end, the game is really just a game. Its tragedies are ephemeral, its victories are artificial, and the pro overcharges for balls.

 

Guess he should update it and add something about Club Champion.

 

[mogc60]

Clearly many people don’t do much homework before walking into some of these fittings.  A little knowledge of price and market could give you some ammo when they start charging $75 for $35 shafts. CC and other fitters are going for the throat price wise but not all fitters fall in this category. A little education could save people a lot of remorse. 

[Adam C]

10 hours ago, MPAndreassi said:

No ones going to point out PX costing $72 per shaft? Ouch.. 

As I remember CC used to just charge full retail for all the component pieces, however now it looks like they are creating their own new retail prices. $72 for a shaft that even if it wasn't a stock option would cost you $40.

$10 for a GP Tour Velvet 360 grip that again retails for $5.70?

 

They lull you into trusting them and whatever they say, and then give you a laundry list of pricing that most people will not be able to decipher as super marked up in the heat of the moment.

 

The way they are going I wouldn't be surprised to hear stories soon that start with going into Club Champion for a fitting and end in a bathtub full of ice missing a kidney!

[J13]

Although I don't disagree with the cost being too high I also think the golf business is a little behind when dealing with fitting companies such as CC.  There are some companies that do head only sales to fitters but not all of them.  If all companies had a head only option for fitters then my guess is price could be adjusted. But, CC is a premium service that offers convenience and high quality builds.  I've gotten fit there before and was happy with everything but driver fitting (not their fault but my own swing indoors doesn't translate to the course). 

 

My advice:

 

Buyer beware and like someone said above, go in educated on price and just get fit and see what shakes out.  You don't have to order on the spot.  Do some price checking and determine if them building your stuff is worth it or not.  I do plenty of builds for people locally and on here that go to a CC type place and get fit then acquire the shafts and heads and have me build it all up.  All depends on if people know thats an option and have good local builders to do the work.  If so it's typically half the cost.

[Doaner84]

No one disagrees that they are pricey, the OP came in noting he knows he paid a premium but he needed the driver. The OP's intention was to say he paid for the original OEM shaft so he should have received said shaft along with the aftermarket if he was charged for a full club.

[MK7Golf21]

this has been discussed on here many times, should research before you get fit. Back in the day it was mostly rich country club people who would go there and pay whatever, luxury cars in the parking lot. To their credit they will now let you just order the shaft and clubhead built from the OEM if you would like and that is at the standard price the OEM charges. However, they say it won't be built to their standards and they won't tear it apart and reassemble. 

[kjbuckeye]

Did my first ever club fitting with Club Champion in 2019. Never done a fitting before. Took advantage of their 50% off fittings. Sigh. Full bag minus putter was over 5 grand. Did not purchase because I knew the cost of clubs, shafts, etc. Prices were ridiculous.

 

This is why you don't work with club champion. Their pricing makes no sense.

 

I did a fitting with my local fitter, got fit into a Epic Flash driver head with an Accra tZ6. He gave me the stock HZRDUS Smoke black shaft too. Told me to keep the Accra and put the stock shaft back in the head if I sell it. Did an iron fitting later and ended with Mizuno MP-20 MMC with Modus 105 shafts. A no upcharge shaft from Mizuno. 

 

Guess who gets my business?

Edited May 5, 2021 by kjbuckeye

[North Butte]

5 minutes ago, kjbuckeye said:

Did my first ever club fitting with Club Champion in 2019. Never done a fitting before. Took advantage of their 50% off fittings. Sigh. Full bag minus putter was over 5 grand. Did not purchase because I knew the cost of clubs, shafts, etc. Prices were ridiculous.

 

This is why you don't work with club champion. Their pricing makes no sense.

 

I did a fitting with my local fitter, got fit into a Epic Flash driver head with an Accra tZ6. He gave me the stock HZRDUS Smoke black shaft too. Told me to keep the Accra and put the stock shaft back in the head if I sell it. Did an iron fitting later and ended with Mizuno MP-20 MMC with Modus 105 shafts. A no upcharge shaft from Mizuno. 

 

Guess who gets my business?

Your goal was to have the fitter identify a set of clubs that work well for you. You're basically paying him for his knowledge and advice then buying your clubs retail.

 

The prototypical Club Champion customer has a different goal. They want Club Champion to CREATE for them a better set of clubs than they could purchase at retail. They don't want to spend the same $2,000 on a bag of clubs that anyone can buy off the rack. They want to spend $4,000 on a bag of clubs that Club Champion has added $2,000 worth of value to by also [whatever you call it that they are supposedly doing to justify the price]. 

 

You either buy into the value-added proposition or you don't. Nothing wrong with paying for a pure fitting with Club Champion if that's the best place you know to get fitted. But that's not the core of their business. The fitting is the thing that gets people in the door, the value-added is the thing that pays the bills.

 

I'll bet your local fitter did not have nearly as luxurious and impressive showroom and fitting studio as Club Champion usually does. There's not that much revenue in just getting paid for 2-3 hours of time fitting someone into a retail set of clubs.

[kjbuckeye]

2 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Your goal was to have the fitter identify a set of clubs that work well for you. You're basically paying him for his knowledge and advice then buying your clubs retail.

 

The prototypical Club Champion customer has a different goal. They want Club Champion to CREATE for them a better set of clubs than they could purchase at retail. They don't want to spend the same $2,000 on a bag of clubs that anyone can buy off the rack. They want to spend $4,000 on a bag of clubs that Club Champion has added $2,000 worth of value to by also [whatever you call it that they are supposedly doing to justify the price]. 

 

You either buy into the value-added proposition or you don't. Nothing wrong with paying for a pure fitting with Club Champion if that's the best place you know to get fitted. But that's not the core of their business. The fitting is the thing that gets people in the door, the value-added is the thing that pays the bills.

 

I'll bet your local fitter did not have nearly as luxurious and impressive showroom and fitting studio as Club Champion usually does. There's not that much revenue in just getting paid for 2-3 hours of time fitting someone into a retail set of clubs.

I guess I'll add a little more here.

 

I did not have an issue with their fitting. I am a fitter myself now and I understand that fitting fees pay for the fitters knowledge, expertise, and fitting technology. 

 

I should have said, "I wouldn't buy from club champion." I think they are competent to do fittings. I just wouldn't pay their ridiculous (IMO) prices for clubs. 

 

In regards to my local fitter, he carries OEM fitting Carts plus some aftermarket shafts, like Accra and utilizes GC Quad. I'm not impressed by CC showrooms or their nice couch they sit you on when they tell you your clubs cost 5 g's. CC has to have a "luxurious and impressive" showroom because they are about to use your house as collateral to finance your clubs. They have to sell it somehow. 

[North Butte]

8 minutes ago, kjbuckeye said:

I guess I'll add a little more here.

 

I did not have an issue with their fitting. I am a fitter myself now and I understand that fitting fees pay for the fitters knowledge, expertise, and fitting technology. 

 

I should have said, "I wouldn't buy from club champion." I think they are competent to do fittings. I just wouldn't pay their ridiculous (IMO) prices for clubs. 

 

In regards to my local fitter, he carries OEM fitting Carts plus some aftermarket shafts, like Accra and utilizes GC Quad. I'm not impressed by CC showrooms or their nice couch they sit you on when they tell you your clubs cost 5 g's. CC has to have a "luxurious and impressive" showroom because they are about to use your house as collateral to finance your clubs. They have to sell it somehow. 

I actually would find the showroom aspect a little off-putting.

 

Kind of like the time I went with my mom to buy a new Mercedes. The people at the dealership were extremely polite, almost deferential and it was a lovely facility. But there's enough of the latent cheapskate in me that I kept looking around wondering how much profit must be baked into these sales to pay for all this.

 

Of course in that case I figured it out after she'd owned the car for a few years. It's not the sale that has the profit baked in. It's the twice a year they'd come pick the car up from her house, take it in for routine maintenance and drop it back off with the bill for a $700 oil change, tire rotation plus a few add-ons. And I don't even want to think about the time she needed the A/C compressor repaired!

[MelloYello]

Say what you will but this is the modern business model in America. It's why everything costs so much time & money to get done. This is not abnormal in 2021. 

[ASN21]

Some interesting replies in here but CC will never get any $ from me. Too many other options for better fitting and sourcing of materials. 

[MelloYello]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

I actually would find the showroom aspect a little off-putting.

 

Kind of like the time I went with my mom to buy a new Mercedes. The people at the dealership were extremely polite, almost deferential and it was a lovely facility. But there's enough of the latent cheapskate in me that I kept looking around wondering how much profit must be baked into these sales to pay for all this.

 

Of course in that case I figured it out after she'd owned the car for a few years. It's not the sale that has the profit baked in. It's the twice a year they'd come pick the car up from her house, take it in for routine maintenance and drop it back off with the bill for a $700 oil change, tire rotation plus a few add-ons. And I don't even want to think about the time she needed the A/C compressor repaired!

 

The apparent tragedy of that kind of waste is staggering...

 

...but then it occurs to you that those people aren't starving. On the contrary, they're opting for those $700 fees over the alternatives. 

 

And it's then you can't decide whether you're the victim or the perpetrator. And that's capitalism as we know it in a nutshell, LOL. 

[goudok]

Didn't read entire thread, however.... CC should charge for the fitting 100% of the time, this is what they do.  Unless they have some special sales fit and buy where a fitting rate gets reduced then fitting fee should always get charged.  Now, if a customer gets fit into a shaft that is offered by the OEM, that customer should have the choice of getting it for the MSRP or pay extra and have CC pull the shafts and reglue them again (for whatever reason that CC says that's better).

[MelloYello]

15 minutes ago, goudok said:

Didn't read entire thread, however.... CC should charge for the fitting 100% of the time, this is what they do.  Unless they have some special sales fit and buy where a fitting rate gets reduced then fitting fee should always get charged.  Now, if a customer gets fit into a shaft that is offered by the OEM, that customer should have the choice of getting it for the MSRP or pay extra and have CC pull the shafts and reglue them again (for whatever reason that CC says that's better).

 

 

Exactly, and I think 100% of normal people would choose option A and let the OEM install the shafts. Save the money and stick with the OEM warranty. 

 

What I don't get is why anyone would pay a bill without looking at it? Or if you've got the money to be hasty like that, then where do you get off complaining later down the road? 

 

Seems to me the OP just wants his original shafts though. To that end, I'd say he deserves them. There should be a set of pulls that belong to him in this equation. 

[J13]

20 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

 

 

Seems to me the OP just wants his original shafts though. To that end, I'd say he deserves them. There should be a set of pulls that belong to him in this equation. 

 

If the customer is paying full freight then agree. 

[shart6]

The key is what can you do yourself? For me I figure it costs about $300 labor and freight to build a set of taper tip irons, if I provide the heads, shafts , grips, ferrules and build sheet. This person is 1,700 miles away. For this I get lies. lofts, length grip size and swingweight to my specifications. For a parallel tip set I have factor in an eight hour drive to New Mexico and a day or two stay because the tool used to match a set I want copied is not readily available.

 

You are paying for convenience, Club Champion is in Scottsdale I could go there I choose not to. I've separated the fitting and club building processes. And personal preference in iron shafts, the old Dynalite, Ping ZZ Lite and old Hogan Apex are the same profile that has been fit to me since I was a teenager. Why change? The fit is now less stiff than my younger days.

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

I hate to have to share this reality but a lot of aftermarket vendors in all sorts of markets, do something similar, including full retail.  When a person buys a set of irons off the shelf you get a grip on each club.  It may not be the grip you normally play, so you have them install your choice of grip, and they charge you for them.  Lots of time they remove the grip you paid for, and some stores sell them later on.  The same is true when I bought TS2 driver with the stock shaft, and ordered an aftermarket shaft to be installed before pickup.  I not only paid for $500 for the driver including OEM shaft, but full retail for the aftermarket shaft, and they kept the OEM shaft.  NO, I didn't care, but still that is what happened.

 

When you buy a car, it comes with wheels.  Before taking delivery, buy aftermarket wheels or fancy calipers, you pay for aftermarket wheels and calipers while many dealerships keeps the stock replaced parts.  I won't share how much those wheels or calipers are off a new p-car. lol

 

[el h0zel]

Bought into the CC hype and did it one time. Never again. 

 

"Fit" my brother and I into the exact same upcharged shaft w a snowballs chance in hell we should both be playing the same specs. 

[Jim53]

I have been fit twice by CC for irons and once for a Putter, it helps to be upfront with the fitter that they would not make a sale on that day and work from there. But both times the fitting found upcharge shafts (OBAN CT 115 or Paderson 110 both times by different locations)  and of course PURED would be best according to them. Even though I knew the Business Model going in it was a shock to see the out the door price. 

The Putter fitting was fantastic and they ended up adjusting my putter as the best fit so depending on the location and people that run it the experience is very nice and as long as your prepared for the cost. 

 

BUT I was put off the whole iron fitting when I asked them if the shafts they use for the fitting are PURED and they are not PURED at either location and I suspect anywhere in the Country.  I am not anti PURED tech at all and if it were free or say $10 a club why not use it if there is any chance it will be a benefit, just don't BS me about what is needed if it is not good enough to be used all your fitting shafts. 

[ctmason_98]

7 hours ago, Redjeep83 said:

t Back in the day it was mostly rich country club people who would go there and pay whatever, luxury cars in the parking lot. 

They started in 2010…back in the day?? 🤨

[MK7Golf21]

2 minutes ago, ctmason_98 said:

They started in 2010…back in the day?? 🤨

It wasn’t called club champion prior to 2010. The founder worked for them as a club builder/fitter and I believe it was called EJL golf, they sold him the business and it changed names. It was always in the Chicago area and served higher end customers but has branched out to multiple locations now.

[sethdavidsdad]

The part I don’t like about what they do at CC is they won’t give you the retail shafts that they pull. Which I think is BS. If I’m paying for the stock shaft and the upgrade shaft I should get both. 
Just my opinion after paying too much for a driver. 

[miamistomp]

 These days everybody and their dog is either a club fitter, personal trainer or life coach

 

 Unbelievable 🙄

[phizzy30]

3 hours ago, shart6 said:

The key is what can you do yourself? For me I figure it costs about $300 labor and freight to build a set of taper tip irons, if I provide the heads, shafts , grips, ferrules and build sheet. This person is 1,700 miles away. For this I get lies. lofts, length grip size and swingweight to my specifications. For a parallel tip set I have factor in an eight hour drive to New Mexico and a day or two stay because the tool used to match a set I want copied is not readily available.

 

You are paying for convenience, Club Champion is in Scottsdale I could go there I choose not to. I've separated the fitting and club building processes. And personal preference in iron shafts, the old Dynalite, Ping ZZ Lite and old Hogan Apex are the same profile that has been fit to me since I was a teenager. Why change? The fit is now less stiff than my younger days.

 

 

Why change iron shafts?  As we get older our ss decreases substantially especially when we hit 50+. 

[phizzy30]

7 minutes ago, miamistomp said:

 These days everybody and their dog is either a club fitter, personal trainer or life coach

 

 Unbelievable 🙄

I'm all 3.  Wanna fight about it?  LOL........🤪

 

All in good fun bro. 

 

In real life I'm actually a personal trainer with certifications.  But yes, I do agree that a lot of people claim to be "personal trainers" when they should be called overzealous gym rats that eat like s*** and take PEDs. 

[ctmason_98]

35 minutes ago, sethdavidsdad said:

The part I don’t like about what they do at CC is they won’t give you the retail shafts that they pull. Which I think is BS. If I’m paying for the stock shaft and the upgrade shaft I should get both. 
Just my opinion after paying too much for a driver. 

 

Just like most people don't ask for the gold/platinum/precious metal cut out of a ring being cut down a size or two.  When we asked for the platinum cut out of my wife's ring at a large jewelry store chain, they were absolutely incredulous, and stunned.  First thing out of the sales person's mouth was, "I don't think we can do that."  😆