golf's three most overrated currently common beliefs ?

[dvq9654]

On the distance point, let's do a little thought experiment using a real world example. Below I have listed out all 18 holes at Rustic Canyon, with corresponding distances from the blue tees (6634 yards) for each par 4. On each hole, except par 3s and par 5s, I will show the approach distance for Golfer A and Golfer B. Golfer A will be assumed to hit the ball 230 yards off the tee and Golfer B will be assumed to hit it 270 off the tee. I will also add a guestimate of what club would be necessary on that approach for each player. 

 

Hole 1 - Par 5 - N/A 

Hole 2 - Par 4 (443 yards) - Golfer A 213 Yards (3 wood); Golfer B 173 yards (6 iron)

Hole 3 - Par 4 (308 yards) - Golfer A 78 yards (wedge); Golfer B 38 yards (wedge) 

Hole 4 - Par 3 - N/A 

Hole 5 - Par 5 - N/A 

Hole 6 - Par 3 - N/A 

Hole 7 - Par 4 (338 yards) - Golfer A 108 yards (wedge); Golfer B 68 yards (wedge) 

Hole 8 - Par 3 - N/A 

Hole 9 - Par 5 - N/A 

Hole 10 - Par 5 - N/A 

Hole 11 - Par 4 (430 yards) - Golfer A 200 yards (3 wood); Golfer B 160 yards (7 iron) 

Hole 12 - Par 4 (325 yards) - Golfer A 95 yards (wedge); Golfer B 55 yards (wedge)

Hole 13 - Par 5 - N/A 

Hole 14 - Par 4 (446 yards) - Golfer A 216 yards (3 wood ); Golfer B 176 yards (6 iron) 

Hole 15 - Par 3 - N/A 

Hole 16 - Par 4 (466 yards) - Golfer A 236 yards (3 wood); Golfer B 196 yards (4 iron) 

Hole 17 - Par 3 - N/A

Hole 18 - Par 4 (437 yards) - Golfer A 207 yards (3 wood); Golfer B 167 yards (6 iron) 

 

Note: Hole 14 has a forced carry that if you were to only drive 230, you would have to significantly lengthen the hole by hitting farther right. That is not taken into account here on approach. Realistically it would be a 3 shot hole. 

 

After doing this, I realize Rustic isn't the best example given lots of par 3s and par 5s (too lazy to start over with a different course, sorry), but I'd argue it's very apparent the longer hitter would have an meaningful advantage on the par 4s, overall. This also doesn't consider the distinct advantage a longer hitter has on par 5s, particularly at a course like this that has five par 5s. I will admit it's possible the shorter hitter could make up for these deficiencies on par 3s and short par 4s, but they will certainly be playing from behind (pun intended?).   

 

I'm not doubting there are exceptions, but there are a handful of holes where Golfer A will be approaching with a 3 wood. It's not reasonable to expect golfers to be as accurate with this type of club as a mid to short iron. More power to those who can manage, but I still think more distance will be a benefit, assuming there aren't massive gaps in accuracy between the two players.  

[Bad9]

8 minutes ago, dvq9654 said:

On the distance point, let's do a little thought experiment using a real world example. Below I have listed out all 18 holes at Rustic Canyon, with corresponding distances from the blue tees (6634 yards) for each par 4. On each hole, except par 3s and par 5s, I will show the approach distance for Golfer A and Golfer B. Golfer A will be assumed to hit the ball 230 yards off the tee and Golfer B will be assumed to hit it 270 off the tee. I will also add a guestimate of what club would be necessary on that approach for each player. 

 

Hole 1 - Par 5 - N/A 

Hole 2 - Par 4 (443 yards) - Golfer A 213 Yards (3 wood); Golfer B 173 yards (6 iron)

Hole 3 - Par 4 (308 yards) - Golfer A 78 yards (wedge); Golfer B 38 yards (wedge) 

Hole 4 - Par 3 - N/A 

Hole 5 - Par 5 - N/A 

Hole 6 - Par 3 - N/A 

Hole 7 - Par 4 (338 yards) - Golfer A 108 yards (wedge); Golfer B 68 yards (wedge) 

Hole 8 - Par 3 - N/A 

Hole 9 - Par 5 - N/A 

Hole 10 - Par 5 - N/A 

Hole 11 - Par 4 (430 yards) - Golfer A 200 yards (3 wood); Golfer B 160 yards (7 iron) 

Hole 12 - Par 4 (325 yards) - Golfer A 95 yards (wedge); Golfer B 55 yards (wedge)

Hole 13 - Par 5 - N/A 

Hole 14 - Par 4 (446 yards) - Golfer A 216 yards (3 wood ); Golfer B 176 yards (6 iron) 

Hole 15 - Par 3 - N/A 

Hole 16 - Par 4 (466 yards) - Golfer A 236 yards (3 wood); Golfer B 196 yards (4 iron) 

Hole 17 - Par 3 - N/A

Hole 18 - Par 4 (437 yards) - Golfer A 207 yards (3 wood); Golfer B 167 yards (6 iron) 

 

Note: Hole 14 has a forced carry that if you were to only drive 230, you would have to significantly lengthen the hole by hitting farther right. That is not taken into account here on approach. Realistically it would be a 3 shot hole. 

 

After doing this, I realize Rustic isn't the best example given lots of par 3s and par 5s (too lazy to start over with a different course, sorry), but I'd argue it's very apparent the longer hitter would have an meaningful advantage on the par 4s, overall. This also doesn't consider the distinct advantage a longer hitter has on par 5s, particularly at a course like this that has five par 5s. I will admit it's possible the shorter hitter could make up for these deficiencies on par 3s and short par 4s, but they will certainly be playing from behind (pun intended?).   

 

I'm not doubting there are exceptions, but there are a handful of holes where Golfer A will be approaching with a 3 wood. It's not reasonable to expect golfers to be as accurate with this type of club as a mid to short iron. More power to those who can manage, but I still think more distance will be a benefit, assuming there aren't massive gaps in accuracy between the two players.  

 

I think your example is just fine but wish you had includes the par3s and 5s and they will just highlight the distance advantage just as clearly. We should also note that the 230 hitter isn't likely getting to many par 4s in regulation over 430yds as 3w is probably not a strong club for him.

[dvq9654]

5 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

 

I think your example is just fine but wish you had includes the par3s and 5s and they will just highlight the distance advantage just as clearly. We should also note that the 230 hitter isn't likely getting to many par 4s in regulation over 430yds as 3w is probably not a strong club for him.

 

Fair, but can see the other side saying that distance will be less important on the par 3s because the shorter hitter is so accurate. I can see this argument holding water at Rustic, as they don't have long par 3s. At other courses, would very much disagree, as a 200-220 yard par 3 quickly turns into a par 4 for the shorter hitter

[Bad9]

9 minutes ago, dvq9654 said:

200-220 yard par 3 quickly turns into a par 4 for the shorter hitter

 

Yup.

[RichieHunt]

2 hours ago, Krt22 said:

You see all of this is lost on those who don't understand statistics or simply deny the validity of conclusions drawn from signicantly large data sets. For whatever reason many golfers fall into the subset of folks who legitimately believe they are the exception to rule, and thus ignore the statistics and bury their in the sand. You know, since the statistics don't capture "nuances" and such. They use the one short knocker who can score and the one wild long guy who can't as the basis of their entire argument, and then simply put the blinders on when you present then with data and facts.

 

The same goes with instruction in general ,many golfers get into poor positions and convince themselves it can work because ONE guy on tour does it, completely ignoring the fact that 100+ other guys on tour do not. As if their skill and talent exceeds that of the majority of tour pros

 

Perhaps we should add "you can make any swing work" to the list of overrated common beliefs in golf.

 

Years ago I posted this chart showing the projected handicap based on club head speed using the data we observed and creating a regression analysis:

https://www.golfwrx.com/531182/how-power-helps-your-golf-game-and-its-not-how-you-think/

 

One of the funny and common responses I got on Twitter was how certain golfers felt they must be 'overachieving' because their handicap is lower than than what their club head speed is or the opposite with 'underachieving' as their handicap is higher than the projections based off their club head speed.

 

What they didn't understand was it has nothing to do with 'overachieving' or 'underachieving' and all to do with the percentage of the population the golfer represents...or in layman's terms...the odds.

 

Just like my friend who swings it at 120 mph but is a 15 hcp...he's not 'underachieving.'  He's just a very rare representative of the golfing population. 

 

Noticing that longer hitters tend to be better players is akin to noticing that NBA players tend to be taller.  That doesn't mean Muggsy Bogues is an impossibility to make it in the NBA, but there's only one Muggsy Bogues.  Where if aliens came down from Pluto and the very first thing they observed was NBA players...they would think the world was made up mostly of men 6'5" and taller.

 

The same applies with golf and distance when it comes to upper echelon players...whether it's the PGA Tour, the Korn Ferry Tour, college golf, regional amateur golf or at your local club championship.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[trilerian]

18 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

 

Years ago I posted this chart showing the projected handicap based on club head speed using the data we observed and creating a regression analysis:

https://www.golfwrx.com/531182/how-power-helps-your-golf-game-and-its-not-how-you-think/

 

One of the funny and common responses I got on Twitter was how certain golfers felt they must be 'overachieving' because their handicap is lower than than what their club head speed is or the opposite with 'underachieving' as their handicap is higher than the projections based off their club head speed.

 

What they didn't understand was it has nothing to do with 'overachieving' or 'underachieving' and all to do with the percentage of the population the golfer represents...or in layman's terms...the odds.

 

Just like my friend who swings it at 120 mph but is a 15 hcp...he's not 'underachieving.'  He's just a very rare representative of the golfing population. 

 

Noticing that longer hitters tend to be better players is akin to noticing that NBA players tend to be taller.  That doesn't mean Muggsy Bogues is an impossibility to make it in the NBA, but there's only one Muggsy Bogues.  Where if aliens came down from Pluto and the very first thing they observed was NBA players...they would think the world was made up mostly of men 6'5" and taller.

 

The same applies with golf and distance when it comes to upper echelon players...whether it's the PGA Tour, the Korn Ferry Tour, college golf, regional amateur golf or at your local club championship.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

Great article Richie.  I always knew I was special and not like 99.7% of the population.  Of course if one looks hard enough they will find many areas where there are not average and many areas where there are.  

[Krt22]

10 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

 

Years ago I posted this chart showing the projected handicap based on club head speed using the data we observed and creating a regression analysis:

https://www.golfwrx.com/531182/how-power-helps-your-golf-game-and-its-not-how-you-think/

 

One of the funny and common responses I got on Twitter was how certain golfers felt they must be 'overachieving' because their handicap is lower than than what their club head speed is or the opposite with 'underachieving' as their handicap is higher than the projections based off their club head speed.

 

What they didn't understand was it has nothing to do with 'overachieving' or 'underachieving' and all to do with the percentage of the population the golfer represents...or in layman's terms...the odds.

 

Just like my friend who swings it at 120 mph but is a 15 hcp...he's not 'underachieving.'  He's just a very rare representative of the golfing population. 

 

Noticing that longer hitters tend to be better players is akin to noticing that NBA players tend to be taller.  That doesn't mean Muggsy Bogues is an impossibility to make it in the NBA, but there's only one Muggsy Bogues.  Where if aliens came down from Pluto and the very first thing they observed was NBA players...they would think the world was made up mostly of men 6'5" and taller.

 

The same applies with golf and distance when it comes to upper echelon players...whether it's the PGA Tour, the Korn Ferry Tour, college golf, regional amateur golf or at your local club championship.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

Nice work. What most folks who like to highlight these outliers don't see is hot it tends to impact your overall ceiling so to say in golf. If you drive it 235 and are a 5, well you are probably highly skilled and thus can survive in that index range despite not being very long.  However, you are likely very close to your ceiling at that point and the probability of getting significantly better from there from there is pretty low.

 

Now if you are a 15 and drive it 280+, well you are now on the other end of the spectrum. You have the speed, but your skill isn't fully developed, so you are still very far from your ceiling. If one guy can drive it 235 and shoot in the 70s, can anyone? Not probable. If one can can drive it 280 and can't break 80, will everyone who drives it 280 will suffer the same fate. Also not probable. 

 

[Bad9]

13 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Nice work. What most folks who like to highlight these outliers don't see is hot it tends to impact your overall ceiling so to say in golf. If you drive it 235 and are a 5, well you are probably highly skilled and thus can survive in that index range despite not being very long.  However, you are likely very close to your ceiling at that point and the probability of getting significantly better from there from there is pretty low.

 

Now if you are a 15 and drive it 280+, well you are now on the other end of the spectrum. You have the speed, but your skill isn't fully developed, so you are still very far from your ceiling. If one guy can drive it 235 and shoot in the 70s, can anyone? Not probable. If one can can drive it 280 and can't break 80, will everyone who drives it 280 will suffer the same fate. Also not probable. 

 

 

I am one of those 235 hitters and currently an 11hc, best ever was down to a 7 a few years ago. In all the places I have played there are guys who are longer than me who score worse, many times much worse than I do. I can remember 2-3 times when someone who hit about the same as me or less who scored noticeably better than me and it was a par round (she was an instructor at the course I was playing and a former US college golf scholarship player). I can say invariably those who I have played with that scored in the mid 70's or better were longer than me and significantly so. So there's my cherry picked, anecdotal evidence to support my viewpoint.😉

[smashdn]

32 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Now if you are a 15 and drive it 280+, well you are now on the other end of the spectrum. You have the speed, but your skill isn't fully developed, so you are still very far from your ceiling.

 

So you're saying I've got a chance at this game?

[Krt22]

3 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

So you're saying I've got a chance at this game?

Sure, just dial it back to 235 to hit every fairway, work on wedges, short game, and putting non-stop and you will be scratch in no time!

[smashdn]

Oddly enough, I did the dial back thing.  I bought into the "hit the fairway at all costs, even with a shorter club" mantra.  I was teeing off with 3 iron a bunch.  Instead of being able to carry most trouble I was right in amongst it.  I was only hitting marginally more fairways and had longer irons into greens to boot.  It didn't translate into lower scores.

 

I started reading up on SG and such and went back to "I need this hole to convince me not to hit driver" mentality.  I also worked on a more predictable and controllable driver swing and "eliminating one side of the golf course" by getting rid of the two-way miss.  Being short off the tee just puts too much pressure on the other parts of my game whereas driving it 280+ makes a good portion of holes play incredibly short.  

 

In concert with working the driver to where it didn't hurt me, I worked on irons only from 150 yards and shorter.  And spend about half my range time hitting shots to 100 yards with my 4 wedges.

 

And then I took a job where I have a 45 minute commute and kids getting to the age where they are in sports and now no time for golf let alone practicing golf.  I hope to sneak away today to play with the persimmons.  It has been two months plus since I swung a club.  I am sure it will be a train wreck but I got to.

 

...

 

To keep this on topic:

1.   If you aren't hitting your driver well, try a 3 wood.  -  Driver has the largest face.  Theoretically it should be the easiest to hit and will give you the most distance.  Before you condemn it to the bag on the tee, choke down one inch and slow your swing down.  Just bunt it out there until things start clicking again.
2. PGA Tour guys are great putters.  -  They aren't.  There is someone (or multiple someones likely) in the world who are much better putters.  They make putts because they have short putts.  Their first putt is closer to the hole than yours and mine.  There second putt is in gimmee range a bunch.  If they miss a green, they chip/pitch to where they are making that next putt a bunch.
3. Slow play is a player problem. -  Course design and course management play an equal role but rarely is it addressed with the same zeal that we go after "slow players."

Edited July 9, 2021 by smashdn

[LeftDaddy]

7 hours ago, smashdn said:

Oddly enough, I did the dial back thing.  I bought into the "hit the fairway at all costs, even with a shorter club" mantra.  I was teeing off with 3 iron a bunch.  Instead of being able to carry most trouble I was right in amongst it.  I was only hitting marginally more fairways and had longer irons into greens to boot.  It didn't translate into lower scores.

 

I started reading up on SG and such and went back to "I need this hole to convince me not to hit driver" mentality.  I also worked on a more predictable and controllable driver swing and "eliminating one side of the golf course" by getting rid of the two-way miss.  Being short off the tee just puts too much pressure on the other parts of my game whereas driving it 280+ makes a good portion of holes play incredibly short.  

 

In concert with working the driver to where it didn't hurt me, I worked on irons only from 150 yards and shorter.  And spend about half my range time hitting shots to 100 yards with my 4 wedges.

 

And then I took a job where I have a 45 minute commute and kids getting to the age where they are in sports and now no time for golf let alone practicing golf.  I hope to sneak away today to play with the persimmons.  It has been two months plus since I swung a club.  I am sure it will be a train wreck but I got to.

 

...

 

To keep this on topic:

1.   If you aren't hitting your driver well, try a 3 wood.  -  Driver has the largest face.  Theoretically it should be the easiest to hit and will give you the most distance.  Before you condemn it to the bag on the tee, choke down one inch and slow your swing down.  Just bunt it out there until things start clicking again.
2. PGA Tour guys are great putters.  -  They aren't.  There is someone (or multiple someones likely) in the world who are much better putters.  They make putts because they have short putts.  Their first putt is closer to the hole than yours and mine.  There second putt is in gimmee range a bunch.  If they miss a green, they chip/pitch to where they are making that next putt a bunch.
3. Slow play is a player problem. -  Course design and course management play an equal role but rarely is it addressed with the same zeal that we go after "slow players."

You might as well do the mic drop after this post!

[tatertot]

7 hours ago, smashdn said:

Oddly enough, I did the dial back thing.  I bought into the "hit the fairway at all costs, even with a shorter club" mantra.  I was teeing off with 3 iron a bunch.  Instead of being able to carry most trouble I was right in amongst it.  I was only hitting marginally more fairways and had longer irons into greens to boot.  It didn't translate into lower scores.

 

I started reading up on SG and such and went back to "I need this hole to convince me not to hit driver" mentality.  I also worked on a more predictable and controllable driver swing and "eliminating one side of the golf course" by getting rid of the two-way miss.  Being short off the tee just puts too much pressure on the other parts of my game whereas driving it 280+ makes a good portion of holes play incredibly short.  

 

In concert with working the driver to where it didn't hurt me, I worked on irons only from 150 yards and shorter.  And spend about half my range time hitting shots to 100 yards with my 4 wedges.

 

And then I took a job where I have a 45 minute commute and kids getting to the age where they are in sports and now no time for golf let alone practicing golf.  I hope to sneak away today to play with the persimmons.  It has been two months plus since I swung a club.  I am sure it will be a train wreck but I got to.

 

...

 

To keep this on topic:

1.   If you aren't hitting your driver well, try a 3 wood.  -  Driver has the largest face.  Theoretically it should be the easiest to hit and will give you the most distance.  Before you condemn it to the bag on the tee, choke down one inch and slow your swing down.  Just bunt it out there until things start clicking again.
2. PGA Tour guys are great putters.  -  They aren't.  There is someone (or multiple someones likely) in the world who are much better putters.  They make putts because they have short putts.  Their first putt is closer to the hole than yours and mine.  There second putt is in gimmee range a bunch.  If they miss a green, they chip/pitch to where they are making that next putt a bunch.
3. Slow play is a player problem. -  Course design and course management play an equal role but rarely is it addressed with the same zeal that we go after "slow players."

Have you ever watched PGA Tour pros putt? 

 

This thread has been one of the biggest fountains of misinformation I've ever seen.

[StudentGolfer4]

The closer you are to the hole the better, at all levels. Even though my old man hits it 200 and I hit it 260 and he beat my once from the same set of tees. 
 

Edited July 10, 2021 by StudentGolfer4

[chippa13]

22 hours ago, dugue4 said:

87.2% of all statistics are

 made up on the spot.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[smashdn]

On 7/9/2021 at 9:13 PM, tatertot said:

Have you ever watched PGA Tour pros putt? 

 

This thread has been one of the biggest fountains of misinformation I've ever seen.

 

Yes. Which is why it is an overrated commonly held belief when it is not necessarily true.

 

Are they better than most of us? Yes.

Are they better because they are better? No.

They are better because they practice it. We all have the capability. 

 

If you disagree that is fine but you would also be disagreeing with statistics and several published authors on the subject as well.

[chipa]

# Playing irons with a lot of weight toward the toe is better 

 

As I recently found out that's not the case. I have my hands forward and turn the left hand back to start the swing(like Daly, Mike Austin, etc) and bring my left arm across my body and with irons with the weight out toward the toe it is difficult to say the least with the general result is that the clubface doesn't always rotate open and stays in a closed position, which exacerbates my tendency to hook. However, with weight toward the hosel it is much easier to get the clubface square making the release much easier, as I found out with a DCI LW I bought. In fact I'm changing my irons to '99 DCI 990B's.

[nsxguy]

On 7/9/2021 at 10:13 PM, tatertot said:

Have you ever watched PGA Tour pros putt? 

 

This thread has been one of the biggest fountains of misinformation I've ever seen.

 

 

Of course it is. Look at the title and the first post. Most posters don't even realize they're supposed to list things that are NOT "true", not things that ARE.

 

Exactly what the OP intended the thread to be.

 

 

7 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Yes. Which is why it is an overrated commonly held belief when it is not necessarily true.

 

Are they better than most of us? Yes.

Are they better because they are better? No.

They are better because they practice it. We all have the capability. 

 

If you disagree that is fine but you would also be disagreeing with statistics and several published authors on the subject as well.

 

PGA Tour players ARE great putters.

 

Yes, they ARE better because they are better. 🤦‍♀️

 

A large reason why they're better is because they practice more but of course they are better. There are ZERO average putters on Tour.

 

There ARE average, and below average, putters on tour compared to the other TOUR players but compared to the golfing public at large they are ALL "great".

 

And no, we do not ALL have the capability. That's like saying we all have the capability to hit a baseball 450 feet, dunk a basketball, or throw a football 50 yards into a garbage can. 

 

Cite your sources and if I'm really bored I might look into some of them but IMO we most decidedly do NOT ALL have the capability.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by nsxguy

[tatertot]

2 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Yes. Which is why it is an overrated commonly held belief when it is not necessarily true.

 

Are they better than most of us? Yes.

Are they better because they are better? No.

They are better because they practice it. We all have the capability. 

 

If you disagree that is fine but you would also be disagreeing with statistics and several published authors on the subject as well.

They are better ... period.

 

Practice. Great hand-eye coordination. Luck. Whatever, they are much, much better than average. Yes, we are all capable of becoming better putters ... but PGA Tour players actually ARE better putters.

[elwhippy]

Much better putters. On different grasses, in different climates and under pressure. 

[smashdn]

3 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

Of course it is. Look at the title and the first post. Most posters don't even realize they're supposed to list things that are NOT "true", not things that ARE.

 

Exactly what the OP intended the thread to be.

 

 

 

PGA Tour players ARE great putters.

 

Yes, they ARE better because they are better. 🤦‍♀️

 

A large reason why they're better is because they practice more but of course they are better. There are ZERO average putters on Tour.

 

There ARE average, and below average, putters on tour compared to the other TOUR players but compared to the golfing public at large they are ALL "great".

 

And no, we do not ALL have the capability. That's like saying we all have the capability to hit a baseball 450 feet, dunk a basketball, or throw a football 50 yards into a garbage can. 

 

Cite your sources and if I'm really bored I might look into some of them but IMO but we most decidedly do NOT ALL have the capability.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tomorrow when I am at a PC.

 

 

[garyt]

On 7/3/2021 at 1:19 PM, Fairway14 said:

 

Yes, that is a primary reason for why I advocate playing lots of 3-woods from par 4 and  par 5 tee boxes. Doing so takes the "hit it hard" instinct out the swing and inherently helps improve swing tempo-rhythm for all the clubs within the bag.

Are so many golfers really that mentally weak that they can't use a 460* driver and still swing with control? I doubt it. 

[Fairway14]

Just now, garyt said:

Are so many golfers really that mentally weak that they can't use a 460* driver and still swing with control? 

I guess 90% of players (myself included).  Even Tiger Woods, if you remember his 2006 British Open win at Hoylake, swung all his clubs with beautiful tempo-rhythm. He left driver in the bag that week and the result was none of the "hit it hard" instinct that sometimes emerged with driver in his hands.

My driver game is fine, but on the days when I leave driver at home, or only swing it once or twice during the round, I know that my swing's tempo-pace is better , which helps play good shots with all the clubs within the bag.

[MattC555]

1. Game improvement irons will improve your handicap

2. Music makes golf better

3. Pros aren't all great putters

[trilerian]

2 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

1. Game improvement irons will improve your handicap

2. Music makes golf better

3. Pros aren't all great putters

 

1. Hmm, GI irons are more forgiving, why wouldn't these improve some handicaps?

2. Subjective, may not make golf better for you, but it could for someone else.  Sounds more like a "I don't like music on the course" complaint. 

3. All the pros are better putters than me.  I'm not bad on slow greens, 9 or below, but get me on 10+ and I start 3 putting every hole.  

[garyt]

On 7/7/2021 at 5:57 PM, Fairway14 said:

 

What is a "dobbler"?

Consistently short-straight tee balls versus long and wild hitters is absolutely a comparison worth making. Especially on narrow golf courses the 

more accurate tee ball player is better positioned to consistently shoot the lower score. Remember that the accurate tee ball player usually has a swing technique that lends itself better to striking accurate iron shots than does the over swinging player aiming for power from the tee boxes.

By "short" I don't mean 180 yard tee shots. I am referring to the 220 to 235 yard tee ball player who finds nearly every fairway. Is that a "dobbler"?

This player has a significant advantage over the 250 to 265 yard tee ball player who on half the holes is playing his second shots from the trees , rough, bunkers, or worse, taking penalty drops .

I agree with others that you're comparing apples to oranges. Why does the 250-260 guy have to hit it all over the place and into the woods? You're comparing a good short hitting player to a bad longer hitting player. What about the guy who's just as good as the short hitter but hits it 30 yards farther? Now who's likely to score better?

[smashdn]

17 hours ago, nsxguy said:

PGA Tour players ARE great putters.

 

Yes, they ARE better because they are better. 🤦‍♀️

 

A large reason why they're better is because they practice more but of course they are better. There are ZERO average putters on Tour.

 

There ARE average, and below average, putters on tour compared to the other TOUR players but compared to the golfing public at large they are ALL "great".

 

And no, we do not ALL have the capability. That's like saying we all have the capability to hit a baseball 450 feet, dunk a basketball, or throw a football 50 yards into a garbage can. 

 

Cite your sources and if I'm really bored I might look into some of them but IMO we most decidedly do NOT ALL have the capability.

 

 

https://golf.com/travel/the-man-with-two-brains-stokes-gained-guru-mark-broadies-pioneering-analytics-have-radically-altered-the-game/

 

"But on average, the strokes-gained-putting differential between a golfer who shoots 70 and one who shoots 80 is a relevant pittance (1.5 strokes)... "

 

I don't have my copy of ESC to dig through and find the page but Broadie compares the putting scores and brings up that there are relatively few people in the world who can drive the ball and hit iron shots as well as PGA Tour pros but opines that there are many, many people in the world who can putt as well, and better, than a PGA Tour pro.  The difference between a pro-level putter and the average, average golfer is just not that great.

[Fairway14]

On 7/9/2021 at 7:10 AM, jholz said:

 

 

If you want to play high level competitive golf... then yes, you need to hit the ball a long way off the tee. All competitive golf privileges distance these days. Whether you like it or not, that's the way it is. If you only hit it 230, you have no chance whatsoever. Simple fact.

 

But... if your goal is to shoot good scores from tees appropriate for your age, skill level, or enjoyment, then no, distance doesn't matter as much.

 

 

What is "high level competitive golf" ?

The competitions played at 7,000 plus yardage tee blocks are PGA Tour events and, or, tournament fields filled with aspiring PGA Tour players (for example, US Amateur, Korn-Ferry Tour etc....)

Champions Tour events, LPGA events, State Amateur events, junior tournaments etc... are all played at tee blocks short of a course's max yardages.

Are these not examples of "high level competitive golf"?

[garyt]

On 7/8/2021 at 9:11 AM, Bad9 said:

 

Not long ago? Those guys played 20+ years ago. I don't know where to look up the info but did the PGA Tour regularly play 7000yd courses back then? What was the Tour average driving distance at the time?

There's a course near me that brags about holding a PGA event in 1969 and it plays 6500 from the tips. And there isn't much room to move tees back for the pros, maybe get it to 6800?

[Fairway14]

8 minutes ago, garyt said:

 Why does the 250-260 guy have to hit it all over the place and into the woods? 

He doesn't "have to", but nearly all players who gear their swing for maximum distance do suffer accuracy problems. Most Tour players will admit they could hit it longer than their recorded average but they choose not to because they know their shot accuracy will suffer, and that the pace-tempo needed for more tee box distance will harm the swings they need to make to play consistently good iron shots, wedges etc...