Negotiating private club initiation fees; good idea or tacky move?

[K5thbeatle]

Good friend(#1) was all set to join a new local club in his area.  Had the membership application and check all filled out and signed, but then uncertainty about remaining in his current location forced him to put his plans like this on hold.  Fast forward several months and his residence issue has been solved.  So now he's wanting to join but unfortunately the membership initiation fee has gone up quite a bit.   
Coincidentally about this same time, a common friend(#2) to the both of us joined an established club where he lives(we all live in different states btw) and was able to get the initiation fee significantly reduced, so now he has our friend convinced that he can negotiate the IF fee.  I'm not so sure myself that this will work because the course in his case(#1) is a new one and also because the local economy in his area has been pretty stable so I'm skeptical he'll be able to negotiate much?

All that aside, the more general question is:  Is attempting to negotiate the IF at a private club a good idea or a tacky move???  I guess on one side it never hurts to ask but on the other side does it look bad in the eyes of the membership director?

[Robber6656]

In this environment he will be shown the door. It will look extremely bad. Also any club that would cut a deal is not worth joining. How well do you think it would go if the guy before him paid full price and he found out?

[Abh159]

My club just raised our initiation fees by 100% and we still have a waitlist of over 100 people. Also, every other private club in my area (10-15 of them) have done the same thing this year and they also all have 2+ year long waitlists. 
 

With the massive Covid golf boom private golf courses everywhere are full and more expensive then they’ve ever been. I’d be shocked if a club was willing to cut anyone a “deal” right now.

 

And if a club is that pressed for new members right now I’d worry about their long term success. 

[slprince67]

not the optimal time for a negotiation.....   2008-2009 was a different story

[Golfnuck]

Agree with the above posters.

 

1.  Any club that is negotiating initiation fees not is not worth joining. 

 

2.  You will be shown the door if you even attempt to negotiate.

 

We have just increased our initiation fee to $65k but that was two years ago and we froze any additional new members (including any entering from waitlist) indefinitely.  We have over 70 full play members on the waitlist and over 100 if we count all playing categories.  I believe we should move our initiation fee to over $100k.  Those on the current waitlist will not be able to join for at least 5 years and maybe even 10 years.

 

[cgasucks]

With Covid around making golf popular again you are in no position to negotiate.  Negotiate when the club needs you more than you need them.

[NJBigFish22]

I would say that a new club may be more willing to negotiate cause they need to fill membership.  An established club with a waiting list I doubt you could. I have heard some are a bit more flexible with how long you have to pay the initiation fee, so maybe that can be negotiated more.  Last club I belonged to I could have spread it out over 2 years, but it was a modest fee that I payed upon signing up.  

 

I have never looked at clubs in this range, but if the initiation is $100-$200K, what is typical for paying that amount?  I am assuming most don’t have that lying around to pay on day 1.  

[hammergolf]

2 hours ago, K5thbeatle said:

Good friend(#1) was all set to join a new local club in his area.  Had the membership application and check all filled out and signed, but then uncertainty about remaining in his current location forced him to put his plans like this on hold.  Fast forward several months and his residence issue has been solved.  So now he's wanting to join but unfortunately the membership initiation fee has gone up quite a bit.   
Coincidentally about this same time, a common friend(#2) to the both of us joined an established club where he lives(we all live in different states btw) and was able to get the initiation fee significantly reduced, so now he has our friend convinced that he can negotiate the IF fee.  I'm not so sure myself that this will work because the course in his case(#1) is a new one and also because the local economy in his area has been pretty stable so I'm skeptical he'll be able to negotiate much?

All that aside, the more general question is:  Is attempting to negotiate the IF at a private club a good idea or a tacky move???  I guess on one side it never hurts to ask but on the other side does it look bad in the eyes of the membership director?

Tacky. If I ever found out that members joining at the same time we’re paying different initiation fees I’m sure the entire membership would not be happy. 

[2bGood]

The club will melt down pretty fast if they are letting people joining at the same time pay different fees as some members will feel they got ripped off. Good clubs set a price and stick with it and then move the price when they need to. They do NOT do one-off deals.

[Dancin]

37 minutes ago, NJBigFish22 said:

I would say that a new club may be more willing to negotiate cause they need to fill membership.  An established club with a waiting list I doubt you could. I have heard some are a bit more flexible with how long you have to pay the initiation fee, so maybe that can be negotiated more.  Last club I belonged to I could have spread it out over 2 years, but it was a modest fee that I payed upon signing up.  

 

I have never looked at clubs in this range, but if the initiation is $100-$200K, what is typical for paying that amount?  I am assuming most don’t have that lying around to pay on day 1.  

Actually at clubs charging that much you are likely required to put up quite a bit if not the whole amount. Any place charging that much has a waiting list and there's others who probably do have the full amount. Mine's $35k and you have to pay half to get on the waiting list (refundable if you decide not to join). It's the cheaper clubs that let you pay over years although with the boom I imagine those offers are going away too. It's a sellers market right now and clubs can name their terms.

[MtlJeff]

Been said multiple times already but a club that's willing to negotiate a membership fee is probably not a club you should even want to join. It's usually a sign of bad management that will spread to other areas.

 

The only clubs i know that did this around here had very poor reputations and were usually only a few years away from going under.

 

There was a club around here kind of famous for this. You could negotiate everything, real turnoff to the members especially the longer term ones. You end up with groups of people just cherry picking a different course year to year, getting promised your tee time and paying less than you. This course lost hundreds of members in a short span

[caniac6]

You can always ask, but don't get offended if the answer is no both to your request or application.

[Robber6656]

Members of private clubs want new members to be  "owners". They don't want club hopping members that are looking for a deal, "renters". We've had a bunch of those at our club and they will never be allowed to rejoin.

[Golfnuck]

15 hours ago, NJBigFish22 said:

I would say that a new club may be more willing to negotiate cause they need to fill membership.  An established club with a waiting list I doubt you could. I have heard some are a bit more flexible with how long you have to pay the initiation fee, so maybe that can be negotiated more.  Last club I belonged to I could have spread it out over 2 years, but it was a modest fee that I payed upon signing up.  

 

I have never looked at clubs in this range, but if the initiation is $100-$200K, what is typical for paying that amount?  I am assuming most don’t have that lying around to pay on day 1.  

 

I would say that the higher the initiation fee is the more likely there will not be any sort of financing or termed out payment.

 

The club with the highest initiation fee in my areas is only $110k but they expect full payment at time of joining.

 

People that are looking at joining clubs with initiation fees in excess of $200k will have $200k or more lying around in cash.  That is just pocket change to them.

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Golfnuck

[Bonneville85308]

I've always been a member of middle-of-the-road clubs that were never in excellent financial shape, particularly after the great recession when 100+ members suddenly quit over the span of less than a year.  I spent some time on the membership committee.  Even then, circa 2009-2012, they would not negotiate individual "deals" with anyone. Were there all kinds of published promotions involving waived initiation, free dues for several months, F&B credits? Sure. But everyone joining a particular membership category around the same time got the EXACT same deal. Any attempt at negotiation would have been met with "I'm sorry, our membership plans and rates aren't negotiable." There was enough grumbling from the long-term members who had paid large initiation fees years prior over all the new people coming in who didn't have to put up anything; having the new folks be able to negotiate everything would have started WW3. 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Bonneville85308

[vallygolf]

My club has had a 600% initiation increase and a 100% increase in monthly dues since I joined in 2013.  I left for a time due to overcrowding, and rejoined just prior to the dramatic increases.  The course is now more crowded than before (literally impossible to get a tee time before noon without a scheduling bot) but im unwilling to resign as all of my alternatives are also tapped out with play, and there is a waitlist to join a club which has no tee times, and is unmotivated to fix the issue.  I dont think negotiating would work in my neck of the woods.

[Robber6656]

My club has no tee times and it's never been a problem and the members in a recent survey said as such. No one wanted to change to tee times. Most clubs in my area work the same way.

[2bGood]

53 minutes ago, Robber6656 said:

My club has no tee times and it's never been a problem and the members in a recent survey said as such. No one wanted to change to tee times. Most clubs in my area work the same way.

It a nice format to have if the club can make it work. How many members do you have / rounds per day?

[vandyfan]

It's a tacky move. You aren't buying a used car, you are joining a private club. If you don't like the price then it isn't for you.

[Krt22]

I guess I will be the dissenting opinion here and say there is nothing wrong with asking, since he had a previous agreement in place and it has only been a few months time (if it was a year+, that is a different story). I would approach the membership director and simply say, hey things have changed on my end, I would like to join, can we simply execute the previous agreed upon contract.  No-brainer to ask if it's a non-equity club

[vandyfan]

Hey, I was going to buy that stock last week when it was $60 but now it is up to $70. Can we just execute it at the old price?

[Roody]

I think if the club you're trying to get into has a waiting list, then your room for negotiation is next-to-none. Otherwise, they might be willing to play ball.

 

Or if you can find 5 or 6 other people to join with you as a group, and have another hungry club nearby to fall back on as a bargaining chip, maybe. But like many mentioned, there aren't many clubs post-covid that are all that desperate for new members right now.  

[david.c.w]

This thread is running similar to the other one about the health of private clubs.

 

Are private clubs dying?  Forum responses = resounding NO

Can I negotiate my initiation fee?  Forum responses = resounding NO

 

Yes, private clubs are hanging around for a while.

 

[vallygolf]

2 hours ago, 2bGood said:

It a nice format to have if the club can make it work. How many members do you have / rounds per day?

Interested in this.  How can one "help" their club make it work? What are the pitfalls to be overcome.  Everyone I talk to wants this option.

[2bGood]

2 minutes ago, vallygolf said:

Interested in this.  How can one "help" their club make it work? What are the pitfalls to be overcome.  Everyone I talk to wants this option.

It is all about the pressure you have on the tee sheet. If you don't have lots of golfers wanting the same tee time it will work. I think everyone would love to know that they can play golf within 30-60minutes of any time the show up at the course. Typically this means you allow less members into the club and charge those members more. 

 

For our club we would have cut our membership in half and double dues, so I highly doubt we would ever be able to pull it off.

[Robber6656]

3 hours ago, 2bGood said:

It a nice format to have if the club can make it work. How many members do you have / rounds per day?

300 members

[Whisspy]

Find a member who is willing to sell and wants to cut bait for less than the club is willing to sell you a membership at the new inflated price.  Easiest way to get a better deal.  

[Robber6656]

1 hour ago, Whisspy said:

Find a member who is willing to sell and wants to cut bait for less than the club is willing to sell you a membership at the new inflated price.  Easiest way to get a better deal.  

Members can’t sell their membership at almost all clubs. If it was only that simple.

[ND2005]

And here the 6 ish people I know who have joined clubs this year have been able to get in for under “asking price” even at courses with substantial waitlists…

 

I think the responses here have been a little dogmatic so far 

[2bGood]

4 hours ago, Robber6656 said:

300 members

Makes sense. Easy to make that work then. Are a super exclusive club with high fees or rural club with low costs?