LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[So_Cal]

Why is LIV saddling itself with non-competitive, over the hill golfers?  They are stuck with these guys

[Titleist99]

26 minutes ago, joe perry said:

Could the PGA tour use the money in the bank (250 million)  and use it in some way to reward the top players and maybe give the lesser players something like 10,000 per tournament to cover their travel/caddie costs ????

 

in my estimation Speith Thomas Rory Scheffler are a lock to stay on the pga tour 

 

if you have the top 25 players like 8 million each which in no way competes with LIV money but shows that the tour is willing to give all the money they have to reward loyalty going forward would that be enough to keep

 

Cam Smith 

Xander 

Lowry 

Finau 

Fitzpatrick 

Cam Young 

Hovland 

Morikawa

 

 

I don’t see how LIV can be relevant or compete for TV viewership if you have all the names I mentioned

 

All the pga your needs to do is keep the most likeable and popular players and tie down the best player from Oz  in Cam Smith and a few key European players like Lowry, Fitzpatrick and Hovland to go along with the 4 best/most popular Americans in Speith, Thomas, Morikawa and Scheffler

 

i mean LIV is going to some bogus courses in the USA - I really feel all the pga tour needs to do is stop LIV from getting any of the top young likeable Europeans and stop LIV from getting  Cam Smith 

 

 

'" mean LIV is going to some bogus courses in the USA - I really feel all the pga tour needs to do is stop LIV from getting any of the top young likeable Europeans and stop LIV from getting  Cam Smith" 

 

It's as simple as that............unless Team Foolish give Matt Kucher a $40M contract then all bets are off.....LOL!

Edited July 25, 2022 by Titleist99

[Ferguson]

Promotional Video with bonus Phil Footage  @ 1:14

 

 

 

[J Bez]

31 minutes ago, joe perry said:

Could the PGA tour use the money in the bank (250 million)  and use it in some way to reward the top players and maybe give the lesser players something like 10,000 per tournament to cover their travel/caddie costs ????

 

in my estimation Speith Thomas Rory Scheffler are a lock to stay on the pga tour 

 

if you gave the top 15 players like 8 million each which in no way competes with LIV money but shows that the tour is willing to give all the money they have to reward loyalty going forward would that be enough to keep

 

Cam Smith 

Xander 

Lowry 

Finau 

Fitzpatrick 

Cam Young 

Hovland 

Morikawa

Cantlay

 

 

I don’t see how LIV can be relevant or compete for TV viewership if you have all the names I mentioned

 

All the pga your needs to do is keep the most likeable and popular players and tie down the best player from Oz  in Cam Smith and a few key European players like Lowry, Fitzpatrick and Hovland to go along with the 5 best/most popular Americans in Speith, Thomas, Morikawa, Xander and Scheffler

 

i mean LIV is going to some bogus courses in the USA - I really feel all the pga tour needs to do is stop LIV from getting any of the top young likeable Europeans and stop LIV from getting  Cam Smith 

 

if the pga tour can do that then with the tournaments, courses and cities they have relationships with then I think it is game over for the average fan on which one they will support

 

I like DJ but in no circumstances will I be seeking out on an internet stream to watch him play Rich Harvest Farms or some non historical course in the Middle East - I would rather watch someone I feel more neutral about in Scheffler win at Colonial or Riviera or East Lake

 

 

Well I'm guessing that a year ago DJ, Brooks and Bryon woul have been on your list....

Btt the answer is simple - you hold tournaments when those guys are not playing.  Opposite the Deere or 3M or plenty of others where the average golf fan could not give you first names for half the front page of the leader board.

[joe perry]

11 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

'" mean LIV is going to some bogus courses in the USA - I really feel all the pga tour needs to do is stop LIV from getting any of the top young likeable Europeans and stop LIV from getting  Cam Smith" 

 

It's as simple as that............unless Team Foolish give Matt Kucher a $40M contract then all bets are off.....LOL!

 

I like my players with a Major on their resume or a chance to win a Major 

[J Bez]

2 hours ago, woodriff said:

At this point LIV is loading up for next year. This year exhibition. Maybe next year 72 holes. No too sure what happens with the team thing. 

The team thing is part of their longer term strategy.  But would agree by year 3 it will be full fiend events with 72 holes.

[CDM]

1 hour ago, idrive said:

I wonder if the guys that signed for far less will have any animosity.  They're certainly going to have a talk to their agents about it.

 

This would put Cam's deal at $500 mil?  

 

At this point I also wonder if many are just going to turn their back on all of this as it's just become total absurdity. I will never support of this. I'll play my 3-4 times a week same as I do know and find something else to fall asleep to on Sunday afternoon.

 

If you are talking "US" structure 100% yes, then it would be like the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc contracts. 

 

I think there is a different approach that seems to be unfolding. Though not much of all this makes sense right now....

 

Hideki is a "god" in that part of the world especially after he won the masters.  Worth that much, I would say no way but its not my $$$.   I will note though we don't see it here in the US, on the other side of the world with 3 Billion people he is extremely popular. 

 

Cam for sure is currently playing better and could say a better overall player, but his market is what? Here and AUS I guess? The key ones that is and AUS is only 26 million people?  So not a huge market per se.  Popular for sure but I only point that out as watching this unfold for the last few months, it is odd at times who they are after. Best I can tell, it appears LIV is working to get players that have appeal all over the world, but more specifically for "regions" for future events / marketing in the future.

  

I know there is a lot of people who comment on the "sports washing" etc, but I am pretty sure the SA PIF group knew the US fans would attack them and It is pretty obvious they don't care with the funds tossed out, they appear to be looking at this globally. 

Also love the "fall asleep to on Sunday afternoon" comment 🤣  

[Str8Putt]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Hideki! Of course, now Cam gonna want $400MM.

 

Unlimited cash 💰 yo! 🤣

 

 

 

Source may have missed this time. I'd be shocked to see Hideki get $400million..

I don't think any of the current players command that type of pay. Tiger is cripple but I guess an argument could still be made to pay him that crazy money.

Rory would be simply so LIV can say yes, even Rory has a price LOL but in all seriousness. I don't think Hideki moves the needle or is the one that would get others to jump to LIV, then again maybe he does in Asian Markets.

[RobS]

1 hour ago, BottleCap said:

It looks like they may be looking at it on the basis of national markets at this time...Hideki brings the Japanese market and he may be the Japanese market, which is considerably more money than the Aussie market, which has many golfers that could bring the market.

 

I'm wondering what a signing bonus for the Chinese market may look like, the only Chinese golfer I'm aware of is Hao Tong Li.

Japan is the 2nd largest golf market in the world behind the US by most metrics...players, consumers, courses, etc.  For context, those 2 countries combined make up 2/3 of the world golf market.

[jdl]

6 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Sounds like we'll have top 125 at the end of the tournament year + 30 Korn Ferry grads + 5 DP World Tour awardees with cards for the upcoming year. No PGA Tour Q-school., only KF.

Q school was changed, the top 5 now go straight to the big show, just like in the old days.

 

And it's top 10 from the DP Tour.

 

EDIT: starting in 2023.... 🙂

Edited July 25, 2022 by jdl

[Stevens24]

3 hours ago, idrive said:

I wonder if the guys that signed for far less will have any animosity.  They're certainly going to have a talk to their agents about it.

 

This would put Cam's deal at $500 mil?  

 

At this point I also wonder if many are just going to turn their back on all of this as it's just become total absurdity. I will never support of this. I'll play my 3-4 times a week same as I do know and find something else to fall asleep to on Sunday afternoon.

You can still fall asleep to PGA Tour golf. Even easier with fewer big names playing.😂

[Stevens24]

49 minutes ago, RobS said:

Japan is the 2nd largest golf market in the world behind the US by most metrics...players, consumers, courses, etc.  For context, those 2 countries combined make up 2/3 of the world golf market.

And Japan WILL TELEVISE this with Hidecki playing

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, maowv said:

This.

It's posts like this that keeps me interested in reading this chain of comments. 

Not too biting but with just the right amount of irreverence. A bit of John Cleese wit on full display.

 

Well done, Leezer99. Well done.

Always look on the bright side of life.

[Stevens24]

1 hour ago, joe perry said:

 

I like my players with a Major on their resume or a chance to win a Major 

Well they are playing at the course that was to host the 2022 PGA. So not exactly a pitch and putt

[Stevens24]

1 hour ago, So_Cal said:

Why is LIV saddling itself with non-competitive, over the hill golfers?  They are stuck with these guys

No they aren’t, just stuck paying them. And to them money is nothing

[the bishop]

1 hour ago, Ferguson said:

Promotional Video with bonus Phil Footage  @ 1:14

 

 

 

Wow.  That was cool.  *snicker*

[idrive]

5 hours ago, idrive said:

I wonder if the guys that signed for far less will have any animosity.  They're certainly going to have a talk to their agents about it.

 

 

5 hours ago, Krt22 said:

What exactly are their agents going to do? 

 

But you are right, they are essentially building a card castle. When it comes to the guaranteed money aspect, there can only be a hand full of guys at the top and it won't take a lot for everything to come falling down. You can no longer play your way to the top, so you either accept your place on the totem pole or you leave.

 

Tell their Secretary they're not in when DJ, DeScam, Brooksie, and a couple of others call wanting to know why they didn't get anywhere near what Hideki (supposedly) is getting.

 

 

 

.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by idrive

[mahonie]

6 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

I agree 100%.....As we've seen with all the golf tournaments this week......you certainly don't need big name golfers to create drama when something else is on the line besides money. You have to have added incentive to hold the viewers.......

      Like.....fighting for tour cards.....getting in other tournaments.....etc.

I agree with you (makes a change ;-)) but the one compelling thing that the PGA Tour has been lacking are golf courses that hold the viewers. The TPC style of courses that are now rolled out most weeks do not force players to hit great shots to win tournaments. We are supposed to be watching the best players in the world, I want to see what they've got, not watch them smashing a drive 80 yards offline and then still having a simple 8-iron into the green for a regulation par or even a birdie. There is no risk/reward to generate excitement anymore and it has stopped being entertainment for people on the edge of golf.

 

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, Str8Putt said:

Source may have missed this time. I'd be shocked to see Hideki get $400million..

I don't think any of the current players command that type of pay. Tiger is cripple but I guess an argument could still be made to pay him that crazy money.

Rory would be simply so LIV can say yes, even Rory has a price LOL but in all seriousness. I don't think Hideki moves the needle or is the one that would get others to jump to LIV, then again maybe he does in Asian Markets.

Sounds nuts but

 

Rahmbo alluded to getting offered  the same number

 

400MM

 

As much cash as SA has (unlimited yo!) they are asking guys who can make 400MM in their careers to walk away from the pga tour and the endorsements that come along.

 

For Greg Norman! 🤣 There’s no guarantee the Saudis don’t pull the plug.  

 

Of course they want their lifetime earnings guaranteed. 
 

For a guy like Rahmbo, he figures he can make 30MM a year (purses and endorsements) for 15-20 years. That’s a lot to walk out on. 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by bscinstnct

[jdl]

 

[NoFancyUsername.]

1 hour ago, Str8Putt said:

Source may have missed this time. I'd be shocked to see Hideki get $400million..

I don't think any of the current players command that type of pay. Tiger is cripple but I guess an argument could still be made to pay him that crazy money.

Rory would be simply so LIV can say yes, even Rory has a price LOL but in all seriousness. I don't think Hideki moves the needle or is the one that would get others to jump to LIV, then again maybe he does in Asian Markets.

Hideki moves Japan. If LIV get him, it would not be for 400m. For all the pundits out there...400m would be made before lunch, and the main stash would not be touched 😉

[bscinstnct]

39 minutes ago, NoFancyUsername. said:

Hideki moves Japan. If LIV get him, it would not be for 400m. For all the pundits out there...400m would be made before lunch, and the main stash would not be touched 😉

 

The PIF is distributed over hundreds of investments. Equities, VC funding for tech, global infrastructure projects. 
 

While the fund is 600billion, a $5 billion single investment in a single project/investment is sizeable. 
 

I doubt they’d put more than 1% (6 billion) in any single investment). 
 

That’s how risk management works. It’s an investment fund after all. Not Greg Norman’s piggy bank ; )

 

For example, the fund has 50 billion in US equities. But that’s distributed across companies like Facebook, Uber, Disney, and Citi and dozens of others. 
 

So, don’t go thinking they are going to go crazy dumping 10 billion into a golf league that’s just making a few golfers rich. I’d speculate they will commit 2 billion and see how it’s going for a year or 2 before committing another 2 billion. 
 

And given what the talent is costing and question mark on actual success measured in viewers and positive media, it’s a toss up if they will think they are getting a good return and stick with it. 
 

That’s why guys are asking for their lifetime earnings guaranteed. 
 

Edited July 25, 2022 by bscinstnct

[jls667]

33 minutes ago, jdl said:

 

 

I just came on here to post this. Very interesting. They were just talking about it on PGA Tour Radio. Apparently for all our jaw jacking here, the 54 hole thing and other items won't be what holds them back from OWGR points (not necessarily because 54 holes is cool but because of the committee said they need 72, LIV would change by the next event) but rather the fact that they're a closed shop. So in order to get around it they're talking about using relegation to have that be the avenue to LIV and if you are relegated, you'll have to grind your way back on the Asian Tour.

 

On the radio we're talking about whether if you're Phil and are staring at $200mil in your bank account, and are relegated to the Asian Tour, do you even bother? Or just retire? If you don't want to bother, would you have to pay back some portion of your signing money? 

 

Also, how would this effect the big names moving over? Obviously lower tier players will grind it out but what about Pat Perez or anyone who got a big pay day? 

 

Likely this wouldn't apply to DJ, BDC, or BK since it'd be unlikely they play poorly enough to be relegated but not a far reach for Phil, Perez or Stenson.  

Edited July 25, 2022 by jls667

[aenemated]

5 hours ago, leezer99 said:

With a stroke of genius, LIV Golf has listed Charles Howell III under the I's.

 

The only way I can make sense of this happening is they're storing the player names as a single string in their DB; then splitting the string into an array by a blank space delimiter and using the last value of the array for alphabetical sorting. 

 

Way to make something super easy super stupid, dudes. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Remember, folks... There have been a LOT of rumors about specific players. Some have been accurate. Many have not. 

 

Until there is some confirmation either way, I'm neither believing nor disputing any rumors about Hideki going to LIV, and about how many millions it took to get him to sign. I'm not 100% sure he's going. 

 

It's pointless to discuss whether Hideki is worth $400M when we have only one source stating that's the value of his offer, and we don't know whether he's going or not. 

[aus10KC]

I don't know if this has been posted, came out a few days ago. But it are some ideas on how they could coexist and makes a lot of sense. Requires compromise on both sides... do we even do that as a society these days 🤣

 

https://www.si.com/golf/news/weekly-read-pga-tour-and-liv-golf-coexist-blueprint-how

[T.B.]

As bigger names play on the LIV tour will the fields get larger or do they keep it at the current number of players?  

[So_Cal]

1 hour ago, mahonie said:

I agree with you (makes a change ;-)) but the one compelling thing that the PGA Tour has been lacking are golf courses that hold the viewers. The TPC style of courses that are now rolled out most weeks do not force players to hit great shots to win tournaments. We are supposed to be watching the best players in the world, I want to see what they've got, not watch them smashing a drive 80 yards offline and then still having a simple 8-iron into the green for a regulation par or even a birdie. There is no risk/reward to generate excitement anymore and it has stopped being entertainment for people on the edge of golf.

 

This is a great point.  America has so many great courses, but many of them have been made obsolete by technology.  I don’t want to open that can of worms on this thread as many posters are extremely sensitive to the issue. 

[Str8Putt]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

Sounds nuts but

 

Rahmbo alluded to getting offered  the same number

 

400MM

 

As much cash as SA has (unlimited yo!) they are asking guys who can make 400MM in their careers to walk away from the pga tour and the endorsements that come along.

 

For Greg Norman! 🤣 There’s no guarantee the Saudis don’t pull the plug.  

 

Of course they want their lifetime earnings guaranteed. 
 

For a guy like Rahmbo, he figures he can make 30MM a year (purses and endorsements) for 15-20 years. That’s a lot to walk out on. 

 

It sounded like he was just making a hypothetical statement to me more so than he was offered

$400 mil is also life changing money, even for a millionaire or the level the old googles says Rahmbos networth is it's in the FU money category 

 

Also making $30m for 15-20 is a lot to ask for all it takes is a bad back and youre David Duval

[mitchl]

4 hours ago, Ezgolfer said:

Do you think Phil and DJ will sit tight watching 400 million contract for Hideki. Sounds absurd ..

 

 

 

Yes.    What else are they going to do?   Phil has already described what type of people the LIV owners are.  Do you think Phil will want to anger them?

 

Also if you read the Golf Digest article on the way the big signing deals are, if these players don’t play a tournament, they may be required to return money that they were given up front.   With Phil probably being +50 over after this weekend, do you think he wants to pay money back, and also have LIV say they are no longer interested since he can’t perform?