LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Pastit]

12 minutes ago, lowndes said:

and from what I can tell very different membership rules.  Arbitration for one as an arbitrator is who allowed them to play.

I haven’t seen the judgment which may not be reported. I suspect the judge was sensible in allowing a cooling-off period. 
 

The primary objective of an injunction is to protect the “ status quo “ ( SQ ) which has happened here. Sometimes judges have problems determining what the SQ is exactly, especially in trespass actions. He got it right here IMO. 

 

The FedEx qualifiers should play IMO and the US court should kick some butts.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Pastit

[NJBigFish22]

10 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Different court system there than the US.

Yes.  As I mentioned earlier, with the alliance between the PGAT and the DPWT, that creates a precedent.  However the court in CA will need to determine if this case has merit and whether the alliance is enough to use this as a precedent to grant a stay (or any other relief term).

[UncleJohn’sBand]

8 minutes ago, Pastit said:

Sorry, this argument doesn’t work for me. It’s about any restriction and freedom to work IMO. 

He’s suspended from one single professional tour for breaking their rules. He is not suspended from playing professional golf. 
 

I think of it like this:
He’s not allowed to shop in Tesco because he took a dump in isle 2, but Walmart is still open for his business. 

 

And yes, I had to Google a store in the UK for reference lol

[MtlJeff]

17 hours ago, dalehead said:

I wish the moderators had the ability to restrict posts about the merits of the LIV lawsuit to posters who actually have a law degree.

 

This totally goes against the spirit of a site famous for blade-playing 15 indexes

[smashdn]

47 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Sure. But DVr does that for me now.  
 

i agree with you. 
 

BUT.  Is LIV producing this ?   It seems like a cut your nose off to spite the face of you're for LIV and want less fluff. 

 

Is LIV showing more shots?  Seems to me yes.

Is LIV not showing the extra fluff?  Seems to me yes, less fluff.

Are they showing more caddie/player interaction?  Probably not more.

 

I like the LIV broadcast.  Probably mostly due to no commercials and it is just bang bang golf shots for the most part.  Certainly there are times when they spend too much time on a player prepping to hit for my tastes.  

 

I like Feherty by himself and for his work on the PGAT.  I do not think he added anything to the LIV broadcast the other day however.

[woodriff]

One thing I’m fairly sure of. With the latest foray from PM and BD with their lawsuit I don’t think any PGA player at the moment or after FedEx will want to jump into this mess and cross to LIV. 
Who in their right minds would want to join the Saudi tour with so many negatives swirly around? 
 

Granted, this post may not age well. I can’t see many heading to LIV with the current headlines. 
 

[DatSliceDoe]

Sounds like lawsuits are spooling up already.

[jgonz69]

22 minutes ago, Pastit said:

Sorry, this argument doesn’t work for me. It’s about any restriction and freedom to work IMO. 

How did the PGA Tour restrict freedom? They weren’t forced to play on that tour.

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, m052310 said:

In theory, same here. The party seeking the injunction has to show irreparable harm will result without the injunction. If the harm can be fully compensated with money damages, it isn't irreparable (again, in general).  

 

I think you could argue that the PGAT, which they would otherwise have qualified for, carry a tour card, and be exempt upon, is the only realistic avenue for earning enough OWGR points to qualify for the majors.

 

Restricting them from continuing to play the FEC and other PGAT events, then, is far MORE than purely monetary, and stopping their access to those majors that they otherwise could earn spots in is irreparable harm. 

[oikos1]

49 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I still watch the tour. I watch it because of no name guys who can win an event and completely change their lives. I watch because there's no guarantees.

How has the LIV changed any of this?

 

In fact, it could be argued that the twenty something players (don't have the exact number) who have left the PGA Tour have created more opportunities for the very thing you say is the reason you watch the PGA Tour.

[smashdn]

19 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

He reportedly signed to play on a rival golf tour for $200 MM guaranteed.

 

The liv is a tour. 8 events, 14 next year.

 

How can he argue the “banned him from his ability to make an income playing golf”

 

If he’s making 200MM playing golf?

 

It is not just about him though.  He and others.  I am trying to remove the special "Phil Circumstances" from this and only look at it from a purely legal standpoint.

 

I think it could be argued that he has qualified for a lifetime exemption, there is precedent for other players playing simultaneously on other tours, and that the PGAT has monopolized high-level, professional golf in the United States.

 

Think of all the "properties" that the PGAT controls.  PGA Tour, Champions Tour, KFT, Mackenzie Tour, PGA Latinoamerica, also exerting influence on the DP World Tour.  Can he or others who are suspended go qualify for any of these tours' events?  I don't know.  

 

It may be an argument that won't work but I would go the restricting their ability to work angle.

[Pastit]

3 minutes ago, jgonz69 said:

How did the PGA Tour restrict freedom? They weren’t forced to play on that tour.

Freedom to work is the right of anyone so that they do not have artificial and unreasonable barriers invoked. 
 

A court will now test what is “ unreasonable “. It seems to me that it would be unlawful over here to restrict a man’s trade, simple as that.

 

In your jurisdiction, I’ve no idea.

[Pastit]

20 minutes ago, UncleJohn’sBand said:

He’s suspended from one single professional tour for breaking their rules. He is not suspended from playing professional golf. 
 

I think of it like this:
He’s not allowed to shop in Tesco because he took a dump in isle 2, but Walmart is still open for his business. 

 

And yes, I had to Google a store in the UK for reference lol

Sorry, shopping is not a relevant analogy for me, appreciate your research though. All the best. 

[mitchl]

3 minutes ago, Pastit said:

Freedom to work is the right of anyone so that they do not have artificial and unreasonable barriers invoked. 
 

A court will now test what is “ unreasonable “. It seems to me that it would be unlawful over here to restrict a man’s trade, simple as that.

 

In your jurisdiction, I’ve no idea.

are they not working now?   Are they not making more money at their new job/tour than the old one?

[Pastit]

2 minutes ago, mitchl said:

are they not working now?   Are they not making more money at their new job/tour than the old one?

OK - let’s try this: freedom to work where they wish. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Pastit

[Ole3wiggle]

They were granted permission to play on other tours many times before this year. Why is the LIV Tour forbidden? They were allowed to play in Saudi on the DP World tour for the past several years. They are allowed to play Asian Tour if they wanted? Court is certainly going to be interesting. 

[CaseyC]

14 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I think you could argue that the PGAT, which they would otherwise have qualified for, carry a tour card, and be exempt upon, is the only realistic avenue for earning enough OWGR points to qualify for the majors...

 

 

 

The US Open and the Open Championship both have open qualifying.   The Masters is an invitational, just like LIV.  The PGA Championship is just that, a championship for members of the PGA

[jgonz69]

9 minutes ago, Pastit said:

Freedom to work is the right of anyone so that they do not have artificial and unreasonable barriers invoked. 
 

A court will now test what is “ unreasonable “. It seems to me that it would be unlawful over here to restrict a man’s trade, simple as that.

 

In your jurisdiction, I’ve no idea.

There are many, many other tours a pro golfer can play.

[mitchl]

8 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

How has the LIV changed any of this?

 

In fact, it could be argued that the twenty something players (don't have the exact number) who have left the PGA Tour have created more opportunities for the very thing you say is the reason you watch the PGA Tour.

this is a good thing about LIV I think is that some junior champions tour players have moved on.   Perez, Stenson, Howell, and some others were taking up slots in the PGA, none were going to be making a run at the top 20.

 

also, Reed has moved ion and  actually resigned his membership.   That’s fantastic.   I hope he has a wonderful time in Asia.   

[CaseyC]

9 minutes ago, Pastit said:

Freedom to work is the right of anyone so that they do not have artificial and unreasonable barriers invoked. 
 

A court will now test what is “ unreasonable “. It seems to me that it would be unlawful over here to restrict a man’s trade, simple as that.

 

In your jurisdiction, I’ve no idea.

 

What restrictions are there to play on the LIV tour?  Are they "unreasonable"?

 

If a player showed up wearing shorts and was prohibited from playing a PGA event, would that be "unreasonable"?

 

[Pastit]

1 minute ago, jgonz69 said:

There are many, many other tours a pro golfer can play.

Do you want to be told where you can and cannot work ?

[TwistedSister]

Last I knew the PGAT was a PRIVATE company.  and players that choose be a part of it are PRIVATE contractors and sign a contract with certain language.  As with all such contract if a contractee decides he does not want to follow the contract he may be let go with or without cause. 

[jgonz69]

4 minutes ago, Pastit said:

Do you want to be told where you can and cannot work ?

So you are arguing freedom is only one way right? 

[aus10KC]

13 minutes ago, Pastit said:

Sorry, shopping is not a relevant analogy for me, appreciate your research though. All the best. 

 

What about pizza restaurants?

[Pastit]

7 minutes ago, CaseyC said:

 

What restrictions are there to play on the LIV tour?  Are they "unreasonable"?

 

If a player showed up wearing shorts and was prohibited from playing a PGA event, would that be "unreasonable"?

 

I’m neutral here sir. I can see the players’ side and the Tour’s but am against this current form of LIV but not against ANO proper tour per se.

 

No corporate body or bodies have the right to dominate world or a country’s golf and restrict competition. It’s not for me to get involved in hypothetical arguments over folks’ livelihoods. 
 

The PGA Tour has been good to many but has no right to exist in its present form in perpetuity. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Pastit

[lowndes]

7 minutes ago, Pastit said:

Do you want to be told where you can and cannot work ?

Most people are told that every day.  While I’m qualified certain clients choose not to hire me for whatever reason and hire another qualified individual (in some cases more qualified and others less qualified).  I like that system.  Unless you are discriminating against a protected class then hire who you want.

[farmer]

7 minutes ago, Pastit said:

Do you want to be told where you can and cannot work ?

You cannot be under contract to the 49er's and go play for the Browns on the bye week.  You cannot be an engineer working on framework at IBM and go work for Samsung during your vacation.  LIV guys are not prevented from working, they just cannot work for a competing company.

[I3erto]

PGA Tour is a non profit.  Can a non profit be a monopoly?

[Pastit]

1 minute ago, farmer said:

You cannot be under contract to the 49er's and go play for the Browns on the bye week.  You cannot be an engineer working on framework at IBM and go work for Samsung during your vacation.  LIV guys are not prevented from working, they just cannot work for a competing company.

You can take a horse to water but can’t make it drink. 

[physasst]

13 minutes ago, Pastit said:

Do you want to be told where you can and cannot work ?

Okay, so that would only apply if ALL PGA tour members could also play LIV. Which they cannot.....