Mickelson and the brutal rough...

[cdnglf]

Phil is 48 years old. He should know better than to use the phrase “waste of my time”.

[NoTalentLefty]

Justin Rose ripped the folks who set up Hazeltine for the opposite reasons in 2016.

 

Phil just being Phil.

 

However, would've been nice if he would have come up with an injury shortly after his captains pick. This would have afforded Captain Furyk to find a replacement who could hit a narrow fairway.

 

Haney said his in conversations with DL3, the data and analytics told them to take Kuchar and or Zach Johnson but they couldn't because of all the pressure to pick Phil. Seems like either of those guys would've fared better than Lefty.

 

Kevin Kisner would have been my pick.

 

Tiger wouldn’t make my team either. With him and Phil out, Kisner with Kuchar or Johnson would have made the team more competitive on a course like that.

[NoTalentLefty]

1) I see some comments out here saying Phil’s always using his arthritis as a crutch. Actually unless those commercials are on he never says anything about it. He never says it’s because of arthritis he plays bad.

2) The course setup is what it is. No foul on team Europe for that setup. Hopefully team USA will remember that 4 years from now.

 

[Golfer4Life]

1) I see some comments out here saying Phil’s always using his arthritis as a crutch. Actually unless those commercials are on he never says anything about it. He never says it’s because of arthritis he plays bad.

2) The course setup is what it is. No foul on team Europe for that setup. Hopefully team USA will remember that 4 years from now.

 

Oh no, no, no, lol....You’ll see 100 yd. fairways, no rough, and fast greens. Nothing hard about that for the PGA Tour lads.

[mark m]

In 4 years it is in Rome. In 2 years (on US soil) - the US Team can prepare the course. I recall Justin Rose called Hazeltine a "pro-am" set-up.

[OrangeGravy]

this is likely his last playing RC (he could still make 2020 but realistically thats less than 50/50), hes pissy about getting over there and seeing a course he had no chance on. Its kinda both understandable and whiny at the same time. im sure he was pumped up for the event. itd be a lot different if he was 30 or even 40 with expectations of future cups. He is right tho that open/birdiefest setups are more fun to watch in matchplay and tho you cant expect the host to do anything other than set the course up to its advantage, the RC is more fun to watch that way.

 

phil also gets a lot of rope and he knows it (a lot of other guys would gotten knocked back for the watson stuff), so that emboldens him.

 

Gets a lot of rope? You are absolutely right. He did just about the same thing as Martha Stewart in the insider stock trading deal... She spends time in a federal penitentiary, and Phil walks. That is a lot of rope.

 

The guy should really be a lot more contrite.

 

Imagine if he was philandering left and right going to rehab and abusing prescriptions then getting a DUI. then he would really be in trouble in your books or maybe not??

Ease up on the hate man. This isn't about Tiger.

 

Tiger has said nothing about the course set up, he shouldn't be dragged into this. You're better than that.

 

He used to be, but ever since Tiger won, he's been on a roll. I'm not sure if it's Tiger "hate" or he just loves Phil that and feels like using Tiger is the only way to defend Phil at this point. He says he's a Tiger fan, but he certainly has expended a ton of energy proving that assertion wrong recently. I don't get it. If you are a fan of a player but dislike his rabid fans (like many say they do with Tiger), why work so hard to drag that guy into a discussion that has nothing to do with him?

[lowheel]

this is likely his last playing RC (he could still make 2020 but realistically thats less than 50/50), hes pissy about getting over there and seeing a course he had no chance on. Its kinda both understandable and whiny at the same time. im sure he was pumped up for the event. itd be a lot different if he was 30 or even 40 with expectations of future cups. He is right tho that open/birdiefest setups are more fun to watch in matchplay and tho you cant expect the host to do anything other than set the course up to its advantage, the RC is more fun to watch that way.

 

phil also gets a lot of rope and he knows it (a lot of other guys would gotten knocked back for the watson stuff), so that emboldens him.

 

Gets a lot of rope? You are absolutely right. He did just about the same thing as Martha Stewart in the insider stock trading deal... She spends time in a federal penitentiary, and Phil walks. That is a lot of rope.

 

The guy should really be a lot more contrite.

 

Imagine if he was philandering left and right going to rehab and abusing prescriptions then getting a DUI. then he would really be in trouble in your books or maybe not??

Ease up on the hate man. This isn't about Tiger.

 

Tiger has said nothing about the course set up, he shouldn't be dragged into this. You're better than that.

 

He used to be, but ever since Tiger won, he's been on a roll. I'm not sure if it's Tiger "hate" or he just loves Phil that and feels like using Tiger is the only way to defend Phil at this point. He says he's a Tiger fan, but he certainly has expended a ton of energy proving that assertion wrong recently. I don't get it. If you are a fan of a player but dislike his rabid fans (like many say they do with Tiger), why work so hard to drag that guy into a discussion that has nothing to do with him?

 

Lol give me a break.No moral preening please Im exposing the double standard here. I dont need to prove my fanhood for anyone.I crap on phil and tiger equally when i disagree with them. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.I love both guys and will criticize them when i disagree with their words or actions.Being a fan isnt being part of groupthink. Literally in this thread people have gone after phil from his medical condition to his insider trading which of course people are free to do but as an experiment, try doing that in a tiger thread. There will be a group of rabid fans as you called them immediately jumping to his defense. All im saying is when someone like Phil says what he said hes fair game to criticize his statements but when the personal attacks happen nobody dares defend him like they do Tiger. its a pet peeve of mine. i dont like people who crap on tiger for his personal stuff and dont like people who crap on phil for the same. You can go over my posts and youll be surprised how often i say this. Phil went 0-2 and you would think he was 0-5.Tiger went 0-4 and has received a litany of excuses and coddling. i just dont get it. Feel free to rip me all you want though

[OrangeGravy]

@ Low,

 

Not ripping you. Just trying understand. Why not just simply comment about leaving personal attacks out of it? I don't like them either unless somehow they relate to golf or the tour. Unfortunately people will never let that stuff go. And as it relates to people defending Tiger when people bring up the personal stuff, it probably happens more often because people talk about Tiger way more than anyone else and the people that love to talk about Tiger's personal stuff do it way more than anyone does about Phil or anyone else. This just happens to be a news cycle where Phil is front and center. Don't get too worked up about it. It's not worth it.

 

Now if people were to go on and on about Phil and bringing his personal stuff into it in every thread that talks about Phil for the next couple of years, I'll be right there with you. No hard feelings

[Ghost of Snead]

Here's a piece out of Golfweek, if you read the whole thing, please tell me what Phil said when asked why he played so bad at the Ryder Cup that offends you all so much.

It’s a unique situation in that the way the Europeans did a great thing, they did the opposite of what we do when we have the Ryder Cup here. The fairways were 14 to 16 yards wide. Ben Hogan, who is the greatest ball-striker of all time, had a five percent margin of error. So if you hit the ball 300 yards, which we all hit it more than that, you need to have a 30-yard fairway to be able to hit it.

The fact is they had brutal rough, almost unplayable, and it’s not the way I play. I don’t play like that. And here (at Safeway) I can miss the fairways, I can get shots out of the rough up on the green and it’s playable.

And I’m 48. I’m not going to play tournaments with rough like that anymore. It’s a waste of my time. I’m going to play courses that are playable and that I can play aggressive, attacking, make a lot of birdies, (the) style of golf I like to play.

 

That is a thorough and interesting assessment.

To be clear, Mickelson is not criticizing the Europeans for setting up Le Golf National that way. In fact, he applauded them off the bat for setting up the course to their advantage.

His point is part of why he played so poorly at the Ryder Cup is it being on a narrow and penal course that is the antithesis of his style, and there’s no reason for him to seek out playing a layout like that going forward on his schedule.

 

 

The point of narrowing of the fairways after 300 yards was to discourage the big hitters taking driver, that doesn't explain why Phil was unable to hit the wide part of the fairway with a driving iron or a 3 wood. Everyone can complain that the rough was too much and the fairways too narrow but that was the risk part of taking it on with driver, it's called course management I believe (and stuffing it in the water on a par 3 has nothing to do with length of rough or width of fairway).

 

The Ryder Cup I watched was full of exciting golf, some of the forced recovery shots out of the rough were amazing from both sides and I enjoyed the tight ebb and flow of a lot of the matches. Proper golf that demonstrated the phenomenal skills these players have and also the gaps in some of their skill sets.

 

I would also point out (as I've not seen it mentioned) that one of Thomas Bjørn's cleverest set up decisions was moving the spectators further back so that they didn't trample down the rough and make it easy to play from, thus stymying the usual tactic of using the crowd as a backstop for an errant drive.

 

Maybe Phil should go sign up with his local PGA pro for a course management lesson.

 

Don't hate on me Team USA...just one mans opinion :)

 

 

No coincidence that the two worst players (Mickelson/Reed) during RC week finished 160th and 168th in 2018 total driving.

 

 

You might be forgetting a certain player thats trash in that category and i think finished 0-4...

 

 

68th is not trash but he did go 0-4 partly due to Reed

[lowheel]

Here's a piece out of Golfweek, if you read the whole thing, please tell me what Phil said when asked why he played so bad at the Ryder Cup that offends you all so much.

It’s a unique situation in that the way the Europeans did a great thing, they did the opposite of what we do when we have the Ryder Cup here. The fairways were 14 to 16 yards wide. Ben Hogan, who is the greatest ball-striker of all time, had a five percent margin of error. So if you hit the ball 300 yards, which we all hit it more than that, you need to have a 30-yard fairway to be able to hit it.

The fact is they had brutal rough, almost unplayable, and it’s not the way I play. I don’t play like that. And here (at Safeway) I can miss the fairways, I can get shots out of the rough up on the green and it’s playable.

And I’m 48. I’m not going to play tournaments with rough like that anymore. It’s a waste of my time. I’m going to play courses that are playable and that I can play aggressive, attacking, make a lot of birdies, (the) style of golf I like to play.

 

That is a thorough and interesting assessment.

To be clear, Mickelson is not criticizing the Europeans for setting up Le Golf National that way. In fact, he applauded them off the bat for setting up the course to their advantage.

His point is part of why he played so poorly at the Ryder Cup is it being on a narrow and penal course that is the antithesis of his style, and there’s no reason for him to seek out playing a layout like that going forward on his schedule.

 

 

The point of narrowing of the fairways after 300 yards was to discourage the big hitters taking driver, that doesn't explain why Phil was unable to hit the wide part of the fairway with a driving iron or a 3 wood. Everyone can complain that the rough was too much and the fairways too narrow but that was the risk part of taking it on with driver, it's called course management I believe (and stuffing it in the water on a par 3 has nothing to do with length of rough or width of fairway).

 

The Ryder Cup I watched was full of exciting golf, some of the forced recovery shots out of the rough were amazing from both sides and I enjoyed the tight ebb and flow of a lot of the matches. Proper golf that demonstrated the phenomenal skills these players have and also the gaps in some of their skill sets.

 

I would also point out (as I've not seen it mentioned) that one of Thomas Bjørn's cleverest set up decisions was moving the spectators further back so that they didn't trample down the rough and make it easy to play from, thus stymying the usual tactic of using the crowd as a backstop for an errant drive.

 

Maybe Phil should go sign up with his local PGA pro for a course management lesson.

 

Don't hate on me Team USA...just one mans opinion :)

 

 

No coincidence that the two worst players (Mickelson/Reed) during RC week finished 160th and 168th in 2018 total driving.

 

 

You might be forgetting a certain player thats trash in that category and i think finished 0-4...

 

 

68th is not trash but he did go 0-4 partly due to Reed

 

let me guess on saturday it was brysons fault and sunday it was...whos fault?...

 

hes 130th in driving accuracy( 150th before the tour championship) but hey the narrative must be maintained.

[Bingo1976]

In 4 years it is in Rome. In 2 years (on US soil) - the US Team can prepare the course. I recall Justin Rose called Hazeltine a "pro-am" set-up.

 

Which it was. And the better team won.

 

The fans were still jerks though.

[bladehunter]

Have never much cared for FIGJAM and still don't. His recent comments reinforce my position.

 

-"The fact is they had brutal rough, almost unplayable, and it's not the way I play."

You are a professional golfer - supposedly one of the best - getting paid millions to play a game. It should be brutal; you should be better.

 

"I don't play like that. And here I can miss the fairways, I can get shots out of the rough up on the green and it's playable."

So your driving accuracy is poor, and you can't consistently keep it in the short grass, and the golf course is to blame?

 

"And I'm 48. I'm not going to play tournaments with rough like that anymore, it's a waste of my time. I'm going to play courses that are playable and that I can play aggressive, attacking, make a lot of birdies, style of golf I like to play."

Watching you embarrass yourself, the team, and our nation was a waste of my time. Want easy birdies? Head to the Senior Tour.

 

Mickelson is done. They need to find Tiger another opponent for the $10MM match.

 

Phil, retire and go dominate the local muni, day trade, or make more videos of yourself high kicking things off of people's heads. Whatever you choose, don't subject us to watching more of your mediocre play and then your subsequent rants about it being because of goat track course conditions.

 

doesn't your TV have an off button ???

 

It certainly does, however, it was/is not Lefty’s lousy form/play that was/is overly bothersome. Rather, it was/is his subsequent blaming of such on course conditions.

 

Phil, you played atrociously; accordingly, just own up to it. Then [try to] do better next time. Or don’t, and instead stick to pitching buttondown dress golf shirts, falconry, or whatever else it is that you do better at.

 

I’ve heard him say 3 times on Camera now that “ i played terribly “ “ im not playing good “ “ I surprised myself today with that score , because I’ve been playing so badly “.

 

What form of “ I played terrible “ would suffice ?

[OnOff]

Man, I'm pretty sure 80% of the people in this thread didn't watch the interview.

 

https://www.golfchan...y-didnt-expect/

 

They probably read trash articles like below, which only grabbed a few quotes that make him look like an a** and don't leave in the part where he acknowledges the strategy deployed by the Europeans was smart.

 

https://www.dailymai...f-National.html

 

Bottom line, Phil said they were smart to setup the course like they did, that he is playing poorly and going forward he won't look to play tournaments that have such penalizing rough. I don't disagree with any of that. Also anyone who thinks that means he'll stop playing the U.S. Open is being intellectually dishonest in their understanding of what he's trying to say.

 

Further, if people really think he should have stepped down and said he shouldn't play in the RC because of his form, you're being even more intellectually dishonest. First off, he was selected right after closing out the Dell with a 63. Once he was selected, I don't think you can step down a few weeks later after you s*** the bed at the Tour Championship. Second, professional athletes at the level of a Phil Mickelson always believe that they can find something and play well tomorrow, that's part of what makes them so successful.

[Forged4ever]

I like Phil however his big problem is, well, two actually, lmao??

 

One, he loooooves to hear himself chirp, and two, he’s never learned when to STFU, stop chirpin and take his arse whuppin like a man.

 

I mean, he’s lucky if he can spell the word and now he’s tryin to correlate physics with fairways???

 

However don’t fret Gents, cuz the very best is yet to come!!!!

 

The day that FIGJAM wears the big “C” ???

 

Oh Lordy, that’s gonna be a Cup for the ages, lmao???

 

Cheers?

RP

[TheInfidel]

"Success depends almost entirely on how effectively you learn to manage the game's two ultimate adversaries: the course and yourself." Jack Nicklaus

 

 

As Phil gets older and less relevant he's increasingly less able to manage either.

[fastfade]

When Phil was 14, he was a dick, he still is.

 

Care to expand...

 

F***

I'm

Good

Just

Ask

Me

 

good OLD FIGJAM

[braincramp52]

When Phil was 14, he was a dick, he still is.

 

Care to expand...

 

F***

I'm

Good

Just

Ask

Me

 

good OLD FIGJAM

 

Damn! I've never heard that one before. :russian_roulette:

[Ghost of Snead]

 

let me guess on saturday it was brysons fault and sunday it was...whos fault?...

 

hes 130th in driving accuracy( 150th before the tour championship) but hey the narrative must be maintained.

 

Let me guess you didn't see the word 'partly' ...

[bbedell]

Historically the US open has brutal rough. Does this mean he's not going to compete in it any more ?

 

I guess from his actions at last years US open he's also done putting on fast greens with lots of slopes.

 

I thought the same thing. One of his quotes from the interview basically describes a prototypical US Open setup perfectly...yet he's there every year...sounds like a skip in the future, FIGJAM

[Ferguson]

Reading about this gives me a real hankering for RED HERRING.

[rangersgoalie]

“The second point by Mickelson is a gift. For those who have explained how distance gains are a burden on golf courses, he effective explains how more width is needed to accommodate drives over 300 yards. More width means more acreage for turf, more acreage means more cost.“

 

Quote from a blogger in reference to Phil talking about the margin of error needed for longer tee shots.

 

Funny the framing of this. We need width to accommodate longer drives, but the recent trend towards greater width doesn’t

Allow players to bombs away creating even more distance? Love the distance battle, like watching politics debates

 

[Ghost of Snead]

“The second point by Mickelson is a gift. For those who have explained how distance gains are a burden on golf courses, he effective explains how more width is needed to accommodate drives over 300 yards. More width means more acreage for turf, more acreage means more cost.“

 

Quote from a blogger in reference to Phil talking about the margin of error needed for longer tee shots.

 

Funny the framing of this. We need width to accommodate longer drives, but the recent trend towards greater width doesn’t

Allow players to bombs away creating even more distance? Love the distance battle, like watching politics debates

 

I think he meant he needs width as you don't hear McIlroy, Rose, Koepka, DJ, or any others commenting about it.

[Holy Moses]

Feinstein makes a great point - When Rose complained at the 2016 Ryder Cup that the course was too easy, Phil said they set up the course to the US’s strengths and Justin should “get over it.” He felt differently this time!

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-one-ryder-cup-skill-the-us-has-yet-to-master

[Strömsborg]

I thought the course was tricked up to benefit the Euros so I tend to agree with Phil. I belevie the courses should be set up independent of the teams. Rough is meant to be penal not unplayable. Just my take

 

I thought the course was tricked up to benefit the Euros so I tend to agree with Phil. I belevie the courses should be set up independent of the teams. Rough is meant to be penal not unplayable. Just my take

Except the course wasn't tricked up for the RC. Bjorn signed off on the set up for the RC as the same for the French Open.

 

https://golfweek.com...p-course-setup/

 

While Thomas Bjorn has repeatedly said the setup would not be cultivated to create a perceived European advantage, the European captain has signed off on the European Tour setup maintaining what players see in the annual European Tour event

Then it's the exact opposite, the tour event was setup as a test run for the Ryder Cup. Either way he got what he was looking for, accomplished the same goal. A tricked setup with calf high primary rough.

 

Yes, because asking 12 of the best golfers on the planet to hit fairway with their tee shots just isn't fair. Especially not since their 12 opponents had an unfair advantage that I'm sorry say at the moment have escaped my mind. I will get back here as soon as I can remember what it was.

[new2g0lf]

According to the Furyk interview, Phil pulled himself out of the morning match because his swing wasn't right and he wanted some range time. That was the perfect opening for Furyk to bench Phil for the afternoon, why would you put a guy in who is having swing issues on a course that is narrow with very penal rough. I give credit to Jim for admitting it, but it makes him look even more incompetent.

[Holy Moses]

According to the Furyk interview, Phil pulled himself out of the morning match because his swing wasn't right and he wanted some range time. That was the perfect opening for Furyk to bench Phil for the afternoon, why would you put a guy in who is having swing issues on a course that is narrow with very penal rough. I give credit to Jim for admitting it, but it makes him look even more incompetent.

 

Benching a guy the first day has never really worked

[rangersgoalie]

“The second point by Mickelson is a gift. For those who have explained how distance gains are a burden on golf courses, he effective explains how more width is needed to accommodate drives over 300 yards. More width means more acreage for turf, more acreage means more cost.“

 

Quote from a blogger in reference to Phil talking about the margin of error needed for longer tee shots.

 

Funny the framing of this. We need width to accommodate longer drives, but the recent trend towards greater width doesn’t

Allow players to bombs away creating even more distance? Love the distance battle, like watching politics debates

 

I think he meant he needs width as you don't hear McIlroy, Rose, Koepka, DJ, or any others commenting about it.

 

Sorry just inserting a response that reflected more on the distance debate. Phil made a comment about the width that should be required for 300 yard drives, and what I quoted above took it to reinforce that more land, etc was needed for the out of control length.

 

I’d argue that giving the width to players, HELPED unleash the length by allowing players to rip it. Sounds great to say width adds strategy, except when it allows a guy like PHil to play bombs away with little penalty or disadvantage. Phil’s comments seem to be wanting more of the width to allow unfettered bombing

[braincramp52]

According to the Furyk interview, Phil pulled himself out of the morning match because his swing wasn't right and he wanted some range time. That was the perfect opening for Furyk to bench Phil for the afternoon, why would you put a guy in who is having swing issues on a course that is narrow with very penal rough. I give credit to Jim for admitting it, but it makes him look even more incompetent.

 

Benching a guy the first day has never really worked

 

Having Phil play alternate shot has never worked either. :)

[Forged4ever]

“The second point by Mickelson is a gift. For those who have explained how distance gains are a burden on golf courses, he effective explains how more width is needed to accommodate drives over 300 yards. More width means more acreage for turf, more acreage means more cost.“

 

Quote from a blogger in reference to Phil talking about the margin of error needed for longer tee shots.

 

Funny the framing of this. We need width to accommodate longer drives, but the recent trend towards greater width doesn’t

Allow players to bombs away creating even more distance? Love the distance battle, like watching politics debates

Thats that “entitlement” attitude, lmao

 

We OWE the bombers wider fairways in which to drop their bombs????

 

My only question is why aren’t the Euros complaining about the width of those fairways???

 

They must have just got lucky, huh??

 

God, strike my earlier comment regarding “liking” FIGJAM, lol

 

I friggin LOVE HIM??

 

I hope that you’re well and your shoulder is ok Bro?

 

My Best,

Richard

[CasualLie]

After all these years of Phil and his "comments", people still want him to pipe down??? Phil's off the cuff remarks is what makes him Phil. You have to love it even if you do not agree with it because golf needs characters like Phil. Post Majors / FedEx Cup / Ryder Cup, at this time, golf is pretty boring, so anything to get the conversation going is fine by me.

 

And Phil has more than earned the right to pick and choose courses. As it is, Phil has won at just as many different courses as Tiger. Maybe if Phil plays on the Senior Tour, people might actually watch!