Interesting development - $3000 pay to caddy from a $1.3 million winners check? (MOD EDIT - NO POLIT

[NoCalHack]

 

 

Why do people always shame rich people for not giving their money away to random people. Rich people get shamed for not throwing $100 bills at random valets who park their cars and waitresses who bring them drinks. Kuchar gets shamed for not giving a guy who carried his bag for 4 days $130K?

 

Like most people, I respect people who give money to charity. That's great. And a lot of rich people probably take care of a lot of people who they encounter and work with.

 

But I just don't get this idea that anyone who a rich person comes into contact with is entitled to a cut. Whatever is the going rate, it's fair to me. Maybe $3K seems a little low to me, but I'm not going to judge that.

[Holy Moses]

https://twitter.com/...228672188407808

 

 

Why do people always shame rich people for not giving their money away to random people. Rich people get shamed for not throwing $100 bills at random valets who park their cars and waitresses who bring them drinks. Kuchar gets shamed for not giving a guy who carried his bag for 4 days $130K?

 

Like most people, I respect people who give money to charity. That's great. And a lot of rich people probably take care of a lot of people who they encounter and work with.

 

But I just don't get this idea that anyone who a rich person comes into contact with is entitled to a cut. Whatever is the going rate, it's fair to me. Maybe $3K seems a little low to me, but I'm not going to judge that.

 

This isn't Kuchar meeting a random valet. It was his caddie for the week who presumably helped him along the way and spent 30-35 hours with him.

[Hawkeye77]

https://twitter.com/...228672188407808

 

 

Why do people always shame rich people for not giving their money away to random people. Rich people get shamed for not throwing $100 bills at random valets who park their cars and waitresses who bring them drinks. Kuchar gets shamed for not giving a guy who carried his bag for 4 days $130K?

 

Like most people, I respect people who give money to charity. That's great. And a lot of rich people probably take care of a lot of people who they encounter and work with.

 

But I just don't get this idea that anyone who a rich person comes into contact with is entitled to a cut. Whatever is the going rate, it's fair to me. Maybe $3K seems a little low to me, but I'm not going to judge that.

 

This isn't Kuchar meeting a random valet. It was his caddie for the week who presumably helped him along the way and spent 30-35 hours with him.

 

For which they likely agreed on what he would get paid for the week, he wasn't a volunteer, lol, or at least we don't think that's how it started and likely did not.

 

And you still don't know what he paid him.

[North Texas]

Why does Tom Gillis think this is any of his business?

[North Texas]

https://twitter.com/...228672188407808

 

 

Why do people always shame rich people for not giving their money away to random people. Rich people get shamed for not throwing $100 bills at random valets who park their cars and waitresses who bring them drinks. Kuchar gets shamed for not giving a guy who carried his bag for 4 days $130K?

 

Like most people, I respect people who give money to charity. That's great. And a lot of rich people probably take care of a lot of people who they encounter and work with.

 

But I just don't get this idea that anyone who a rich person comes into contact with is entitled to a cut. Whatever is the going rate, it's fair to me. Maybe $3K seems a little low to me, but I'm not going to judge that.

 

This isn't Kuchar meeting a random valet. It was his caddie for the week who presumably helped him along the way and spent 30-35 hours with him.

 

For which they likely agreed on what he would get paid for the week, he wasn't a volunteer, lol, or at least we don't think that's how it started and likely did not.

 

And you still don't know what he paid him.

 

"Facts" just aren't important to some people.

 

It's the old "never let the truth get in the way of a good story" mentality that today's press/media has.

[Holy Moses]

https://twitter.com/...228672188407808

 

 

Why do people always shame rich people for not giving their money away to random people. Rich people get shamed for not throwing $100 bills at random valets who park their cars and waitresses who bring them drinks. Kuchar gets shamed for not giving a guy who carried his bag for 4 days $130K?

 

Like most people, I respect people who give money to charity. That's great. And a lot of rich people probably take care of a lot of people who they encounter and work with.

 

But I just don't get this idea that anyone who a rich person comes into contact with is entitled to a cut. Whatever is the going rate, it's fair to me. Maybe $3K seems a little low to me, but I'm not going to judge that.

 

This isn't Kuchar meeting a random valet. It was his caddie for the week who presumably helped him along the way and spent 30-35 hours with him.

 

For which they likely agreed on what he would get paid for the week, he wasn't a volunteer, lol, or at least we don't think that's how it started and likely did not.

 

And you still don't know what he paid him.

 

Per the caddie himself, his pay was not discussed until after the tournament was over

[NoCalHack]

https://twitter.com/...228672188407808

 

 

Why do people always shame rich people for not giving their money away to random people. Rich people get shamed for not throwing $100 bills at random valets who park their cars and waitresses who bring them drinks. Kuchar gets shamed for not giving a guy who carried his bag for 4 days $130K?

 

Like most people, I respect people who give money to charity. That's great. And a lot of rich people probably take care of a lot of people who they encounter and work with.

 

But I just don't get this idea that anyone who a rich person comes into contact with is entitled to a cut. Whatever is the going rate, it's fair to me. Maybe $3K seems a little low to me, but I'm not going to judge that.

 

This isn't Kuchar meeting a random valet. It was his caddie for the week who presumably helped him along the way and spent 30-35 hours with him.

 

For which they likely agreed on what he would get paid for the week, he wasn't a volunteer, lol, or at least we don't think that's how it started and likely did not.

 

And you still don't know what he paid him.

 

 

He is not his regular caddy. He was probably not much help with club selection or yardages. He probably was not much help with strategy. You don't know if he helped read putts. He doesn't have to travel and deal with missed cuts and poor job security. There are probably thousands of caddies who would've done the same job for less money.

[WidespreadPanic]

They have plenty of people who make good livings, own homes, and they

 

Have banks.

 

Its not like if Kuch paid him the 130k, hed have it stuffed under his mattress and all of a sudden his family gets kidnapped or he fighting armed intruders all day.

This is what I came to say. Despite what some people seem to believe, you can lead a “normal” live in Mexico. And Kuch said they agreed on a price before the tournament, but according to Tucans interview that didn’t seem to be the case. This has become a PR nightmare for Kuchar.

[Jackhammer993]

Cheap people rub me the wrong way. It’s uncomfortable being around people who are managing every penny especially when going out to eat or on vacation. We have friends who are very generous and those that are very cheap. I’m ok with the middle ground which is being fair. In this case it sounds like Kuchar took advantage of a situation and was not fair with the caddy and judging from another person in the article it doesn’t sound like it’s the first time. I will always look at him differently going forward. Keep smiling Matt.

[NoCalHack]

https://twitter.com/...228672188407808

 

 

Why do people always shame rich people for not giving their money away to random people. Rich people get shamed for not throwing $100 bills at random valets who park their cars and waitresses who bring them drinks. Kuchar gets shamed for not giving a guy who carried his bag for 4 days $130K?

 

Like most people, I respect people who give money to charity. That's great. And a lot of rich people probably take care of a lot of people who they encounter and work with.

 

But I just don't get this idea that anyone who a rich person comes into contact with is entitled to a cut. Whatever is the going rate, it's fair to me. Maybe $3K seems a little low to me, but I'm not going to judge that.

 

This isn't Kuchar meeting a random valet. It was his caddie for the week who presumably helped him along the way and spent 30-35 hours with him.

 

For which they likely agreed on what he would get paid for the week, he wasn't a volunteer, lol, or at least we don't think that's how it started and likely did not.

 

And you still don't know what he paid him.

 

Per the caddie himself, his pay was not discussed until after the tournament was over

 

 

Ask the caddy if he knew what the pay was prior to the tournament, and he knew what would happen, whether he would've taken the job or not. I have a feeling what the answer would be. YES.

[Hawkeye77]

https://twitter.com/...228672188407808

 

 

Why do people always shame rich people for not giving their money away to random people. Rich people get shamed for not throwing $100 bills at random valets who park their cars and waitresses who bring them drinks. Kuchar gets shamed for not giving a guy who carried his bag for 4 days $130K?

 

Like most people, I respect people who give money to charity. That's great. And a lot of rich people probably take care of a lot of people who they encounter and work with.

 

But I just don't get this idea that anyone who a rich person comes into contact with is entitled to a cut. Whatever is the going rate, it's fair to me. Maybe $3K seems a little low to me, but I'm not going to judge that.

 

This isn't Kuchar meeting a random valet. It was his caddie for the week who presumably helped him along the way and spent 30-35 hours with him.

 

For which they likely agreed on what he would get paid for the week, he wasn't a volunteer, lol, or at least we don't think that's how it started and likely did not.

 

And you still don't know what he paid him.

 

Per the caddie himself, his pay was not discussed until after the tournament was over

 

Maybe you would have paid more, maybe I would have, we don't KNOW and easy to armchair it.

 

Two questions:

 

1. What was the agreed amount?

2. What did the caddy get paid?

 

Can't answer those, the discussion (in terms of the accusations) is pointless and unfair.

[grm24]

All I keep coming up with is the only confirmed jerk here, IMO, is Gillis, starting something for no apparent reason other than to try and embarrass Kuchar - I mean, really, is Gillis the voice for the alleged downtrodden? Champion of all the caddies of the world? Attention whore? Twitter addict?

Based on this post it appears so. Of course no proof provided by the OP.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...4#entry18480384

 

"Gillis started this thing and he's been right when it came to Tour players stiffing others over money before."

 

Gillis brought to light the putting contest debt that Ben Crane owed Daniel Berger

So Gillis is the PGA Tour tattletale. Isn't that special? It seems Gillis really needs to mind his own business.

[BrianMcG]

Why does Tom Gillis think this is any of his business?

 

Because some people are really good at spending other people’s money.

[golfandfishing]

Without giving away any names or figures, I'm gonna try out some perspective on this.

 

I caddie on Tour, no big deal...my player has status on 2 Tours, PGA and Web.com.

 

On the PGA Tour I'm paid a base rate, plus a sliding scale of percentage based on finishing position. You bet I want a slice of that purse if we make the cut.

On the Web, I have NEGOTIATED with my player that he pays me a much larger base rate, but I don't get any extra if me make the cut, or win for that matter.

If we were to win on the Web, I would be receive a paycheck that is way less than what most would get for a win.

But that's ok with me, Web money is not going to change any ones life, but more importantly, this is what I have agreed upon with my player in advance. He doesn't owe me a cent more, and in addition, it's really no one else's business.

 

Point is, I'm sure Kuchar and the caddie had a conversation about payment before the event began, and I would be confident Kuchar paid the caddie the amount they agreed on in advance.

 

That seems like a pretty good way to treat a caddie.

 

According to Kuchar’s caddie, they did not discuss his pay until after the tournament was over. A few pages back, another member said he was in the same position where he caddied for a Tour member last summer and didn’t discuss his pay and ended up getting around 2% of his winnings.

 

Gillis says that he would pay a local 5% of his winnings and he wouldn’t give him 10% if he won.

 

How on earth would Gillis know anything about paying a caddie any percentage of a win on tour?

[bscinstnct]

Why does Tom Gillis think this is any of his business?

 

Because some people are really good at spending other people’s money.

 

Did you know Jeff Bezos could spend 350 million dollars a month for 30 years?

 

Although if he gets divorced he might have to tighten his belt a bit ; )

[mackepa]

In the surface it looks bad but a couple thoughts

 

1. It’s not your money.

 

2. Aren’t we jumping the gun on flaming Kuch a bit? So far this is hearsay. Kuch very well could have taken care of him on the hush hush.

[MtlJeff]

The caddy threads are always fascinating social science studies. The majority of people seem to side with the caddies deserving more money though i've never really seen arguments why other than "the players are rich" or "the pga tour makes so much money". I assume many of your bosses, or executives at the companies you work for are rich. The CEO at your company probably makes exponentially more than you. Why don't they pay you more? The CEO of your company could give you 10,000$ tomorrow and it would be fairly meaningless to him....why doesn't he do it? Do you not work hard? Do you not need 10,000$?

 

This type of behavior, if presented as a social program....the response tends to be 180 degrees in the other direction. So i find it interesting

 

I would argue just from an economists perspective, that caddies are possibly a massive market inefficiency. Similar to runningbacks in the NFL a few years back before teams realized you shouldn't draft them high or pay them a lot. Matt Kuchar won a tournament with a 3000$ local caddy, maybe everyone else is crazy for paying them more. Is there a shortage of caddies? If all the players gave them 20% pay reductions would they all quit and find new employment and if so would quality of play suffer? We don't really know because PGA guys pay caddies a "standard" rate that seems to be based more on gentlemanly-ness than real market value. Probably because of the shaming of guys like Tom Gillis and co.

 

It's their right to pay a caddy more if they want, just like it's their right to pay them less. Pittsburgh had a better rushing attack this year with James Connor than they did with Leveon Bell, The Rams just won yesterday feeding CJ Anderson who they just signed.....and Matt Kuchar won a PGA event with a local 3000$ Caddy. Makes you think....

[Holy Moses]

Without giving away any names or figures, I'm gonna try out some perspective on this.

 

I caddie on Tour, no big deal...my player has status on 2 Tours, PGA and Web.com.

 

On the PGA Tour I'm paid a base rate, plus a sliding scale of percentage based on finishing position. You bet I want a slice of that purse if we make the cut.

On the Web, I have NEGOTIATED with my player that he pays me a much larger base rate, but I don't get any extra if me make the cut, or win for that matter.

If we were to win on the Web, I would be receive a paycheck that is way less than what most would get for a win.

But that's ok with me, Web money is not going to change any ones life, but more importantly, this is what I have agreed upon with my player in advance. He doesn't owe me a cent more, and in addition, it's really no one else's business.

 

Point is, I'm sure Kuchar and the caddie had a conversation about payment before the event began, and I would be confident Kuchar paid the caddie the amount they agreed on in advance.

 

That seems like a pretty good way to treat a caddie.

 

According to Kuchar’s caddie, they did not discuss his pay until after the tournament was over. A few pages back, another member said he was in the same position where he caddied for a Tour member last summer and didn’t discuss his pay and ended up getting around 2% of his winnings.

 

Gillis says that he would pay a local 5% of his winnings and he wouldn’t give him 10% if he won.

 

How on earth would Gillis know anything about paying a caddie any percentage of a win on tour?

 

It was a hypothetical win that Gillis was referring to

[Man_O_War]

https://twitter.com/...228672188407808

 

 

Why do people always shame rich people for not giving their money away to random people. Rich people get shamed for not throwing $100 bills at random valets who park their cars and waitresses who bring them drinks. Kuchar gets shamed for not giving a guy who carried his bag for 4 days $130K?

 

Like most people, I respect people who give money to charity. That's great. And a lot of rich people probably take care of a lot of people who they encounter and work with.

 

But I just don't get this idea that anyone who a rich person comes into contact with is entitled to a cut. Whatever is the going rate, it's fair to me. Maybe $3K seems a little low to me, but I'm not going to judge that.

 

This isn't Kuchar meeting a random valet. It was his caddie for the week who presumably helped him along the way and spent 30-35 hours with him.

 

this... and we have certain rich people stiffing contractors et al... that's abuse of power. Rich people are quickly becoming the most irritating around town. No...i am not poor.

[Holy Moses]

@tcgillis Todd there's proof plenty of proof. Would NEVER send it out if I wasn't 100 percent positive. Trust me. The man will get paid.

 

He’s doubling down.

[Man_O_War]

The caddy threads are always fascinating social science studies. The majority of people seem to side with the caddies deserving more money though i've never really seen arguments why other than "the players are rich" or "the pga tour makes so much money". I assume many of your bosses, or executives at the companies you work for are rich. The CEO at your company probably makes exponentially more than you. Why don't they pay you more? The CEO of your company could give you 10,000$ tomorrow and it would be fairly meaningless to him....why doesn't he do it? Do you not work hard? Do you not need 10,000$?

 

This type of behavior, if presented as a social program....the response tends to be 180 degrees in the other direction. So i find it interesting

 

I would argue just from an economists perspective, that caddies are possibly a massive market inefficiency. Similar to runningbacks in the NFL a few years back before teams realized you shouldn't draft them high or pay them a lot. Matt Kuchar won a tournament with a 3000$ local caddy, maybe everyone else is crazy for paying them more. Is there a shortage of caddies? If all the players gave them 20% pay reductions would they all quit and find new employment and if so would quality of play suffer? We don't really know because PGA guys pay caddies a "standard" rate that seems to be based more on gentlemanly-ness than real market value. Probably because of the shaming of guys like Tom Gillis and co.

 

It's their right to pay a caddy more if they want, just like it's their right to pay them less. Pittsburgh had a better rushing attack this year with James Connor than they did with Leveon Bell, The Rams just won yesterday feeding CJ Anderson who they just signed.....and Matt Kuchar won a PGA event with a local 3000$ Caddy. Makes you think....

 

 

stop making excuses.

[BrianMcG]

One thing everyone can take from this is that people simply believe anything they read on the internet. No proof of anything required. It’s a weird phenomenon.

 

Just reading the twitter responses, some are calling for boycotts of all of Kuchar’s sponsors. Just lol.

[golfandfishing]

Obviously very hypothetical if Gillis is talking about a win. This guy is craving any attention he can get from the golf world. He’ll be putting the Champions Tour on blast soon for not getting any sponsor exemptions.

[Jackhammer993]

Cheap is cheap. This wreaks of cheapness. It’s uncomfortable being around excessively cheap people. Agreement or not if he won the big check the caddy should have benefited also. I don’t think it’s ok to be cheap especially when it influences someone else. Leaving no tip or very small tip for good service in a restaurant or continually returning items you have used for refund just to take advantage of the system really rubs me the wrong way. I think this story has credibility. Not a good look.

[Holy Moses]

The caddy threads are always fascinating social science studies. The majority of people seem to side with the caddies deserving more money though i've never really seen arguments why other than "the players are rich" or "the pga tour makes so much money". I assume many of your bosses, or executives at the companies you work for are rich. The CEO at your company probably makes exponentially more than you. Why don't they pay you more? The CEO of your company could give you 10,000$ tomorrow and it would be fairly meaningless to him....why doesn't he do it? Do you not work hard? Do you not need 10,000$?

 

This type of behavior, if presented as a social program....the response tends to be 180 degrees in the other direction. So i find it interesting

 

I would argue just from an economists perspective, that caddies are possibly a massive market inefficiency. Similar to runningbacks in the NFL a few years back before teams realized you shouldn't draft them high or pay them a lot. Matt Kuchar won a tournament with a 3000$ local caddy, maybe everyone else is crazy for paying them more. Is there a shortage of caddies? If all the players gave them 20% pay reductions would they all quit and find new employment and if so would quality of play suffer? We don't really know because PGA guys pay caddies a "standard" rate that seems to be based more on gentlemanly-ness than real market value. Probably because of the shaming of guys like Tom Gillis and co.

 

It's their right to pay a caddy more if they want, just like it's their right to pay them less. Pittsburgh had a better rushing attack this year with James Connor than they did with Leveon Bell, The Rams just won yesterday feeding CJ Anderson who they just signed.....and Matt Kuchar won a PGA event with a local 3000$ Caddy. Makes you think....

 

I don’t think anyone has said that caddies are paid too much. Rather, the majority of pro caddies make little money. I just don’t see why it is so hard to pay the standard caddie percentages to a caddie. If this was done, it would be a non-issue. I understand that Ortiz didn’t communicate much with Kuchar and that Matt got his own yardages, but I hope Ortiz’s pay was a lot closer to 10% than $3,000.

 

As far as CEO vs average worker pay, it’s sad that workers are increasingly shut out of the profits they help make. It’s not good for business and it’s not good for society.

[Aaronwilson_95]

All I keep coming up with is the only confirmed jerk here, IMO, is Gillis, starting something for no apparent reason other than to try and embarrass Kuchar - I mean, really, is Gillis the voice for the alleged downtrodden? Champion of all the caddies of the world? Attention whore? Twitter addict?

 

Seems pretty free with someone else's money for someone who didn't win the tournament and wasn't even part of the arrangement. Don't see it as any of the rest of the world's business.

 

Yep. More I think on it the more I ask ... who ? As in who the blank is Gillis ? And what is his motivation here?

 

People don’t say things like that true or not without an axe to grind. I never heard of the guy. So I don’t know why I need to believe him.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thegolfnewsnet.com/michaelholmes/2018/11/27/tom-gillis-profile-of-a-grinder-extraordinaire-111597/amp/

[BNGL]

Why’s another’s finances the responsibility of others? I have a few questions for people; Does anyone actually know Matt? Does anyone know the figure that was paid? What difference does Matt being a “potential millionaire” (I say potential because who knows if he made a bad investment or what not and lost everything) have to do with the fact that he should pay more?

 

I find it quite pathetic the court of public opinion will slander a person before even knowing the facts...and that this even matters to people (I fully realize the irony there). The final round of the first full field event of the season is about to kick off, the Web gets started in the Bahamas today and the LPGA is set to kick of at Four Seasons in Orlando this week (I’ll be there). There’s so much actual golf to watch and talk about but instead we have multiple threads of this.

[Simp]

Here's an idea: let's pressure Kuchar into giving the guy, oh let's say, $200,000 and then let's hope Matt blasts it all over social media so the hungry Mexican wolves hunt this poor, but now rich caddie down and eats him alive. Matt can't win a tournament without someone pissing down his back.

[sevenfourate]

All I keep coming up with is the only confirmed jerk here, IMO, is Gillis, starting something for no apparent reason other than to try and embarrass Kuchar - I mean, really, is Gillis the voice for the alleged downtrodden? Champion of all the caddies of the world? Attention whore? Twitter addict?

 

Seems pretty free with someone else's money for someone who didn't win the tournament and wasn't even part of the arrangement. Don't see it as any of the rest of the world's business.

 

Yep. More I think on it the more I ask ... who ? As in who the blank is Gillis ? And what is his motivation here?

 

People don't say things like that true or not without an axe to grind. I never heard of the guy. So I don't know why I need to believe him.

https://www.google.c...ire-111597/amp/

 

Interesting article.

 

I played 36 holes in an event with Gillis in 2002. The ability of a PGA Tour grinder/ Journeyman compared to a wannabee at the time was pretty eye-opening.

 

The difference between me as a decent Club Pro at the time and him; was greater than between me and someone who'd never played before.

 

May have only been a few shots here and there at times; but that chasm is oh so vast.

 

These guys are really good.

[I_HATE_SNOW]

SJW's are everywhere. None of our business unless you are Kuchar or the caddie