I hate the "Leaving the flag in" rule

[dayvei214]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @dayvei214 said:

> > > My only grief now is that I just adds more time @ the amateur level... Joe wants it out Jeff wants it in. But like a guy I played with said "it's your game and you paid the fee, play your game"

> >

> > After about 80 rounds this year, that has never happened.

>

> Agreed haven't seen it happen either even in my tournament rounds. It's a definite time saver.

 

Just the luck of my draw I suppose. In or out for me doesn't matter. Lately I've been clearing it up with the group first hole to keep the game moving.

[dayvei214]

Also 80 rounds?! That's amazing... What do you average annually? > @dayvei214 said:

> > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @dayvei214 said:

> > > > My only grief now is that I just adds more time @ the amateur level... Joe wants it out Jeff wants it in. But like a guy I played with said "it's your game and you paid the fee, play your game"

> > >

> > > After about 80 rounds this year, that has never happened.

> >

> > Agreed haven't seen it happen either even in my tournament rounds. It's a definite time saver.

>

> Just the luck of my draw I suppose. In or out for me doesn't matter. Lately I've been clearing it up with the group first hole to keep the game moving.

 

Also 80 rounds?! That's amazing... What do you average annually?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @Halebopp said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @Halebopp said:

> > > > > @"Crazy About Golf" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > > > @"Crazy About Golf" said:

> > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > Disagree. It's not subjective. The earlier touted studies were significantly flawed. Several only measured dead center strikes with thin fiberglass flagsticks or balls rolling 100 mph. Those I'm speaking of measured center and off-center pin strikes as well as straight and breaking putts, plus had data points for putts rolling at several different speeds. They also sampled flagsticks of various size and materials.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In terms of pace of play, it only really helps pace if everyone agrees to leave it in, and can actually add time if you're pulling it and replacing it for each player. I've played over 75 rounds this year, and save for a brief experiment in leaving it in when the rule first changed, I've yet to encounter unanimity on the issue amongst a foursome. The exception being state and local tournament rounds where the consensus was PIN OUT except for very long putts or severely fast/sloping putts where speed was less controllable.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > IMO slow players always figure out a way to be slow and pin in or out isn't going to make a substantial difference even if everyone did leave it in.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm not disputing you or advocating for one side or another, as I'm still on the fence with this one......but it seems that a pretty well-respected short game guy says to leave the pin in for putting:

> > > > > > > https://www.golf.com/Instruction/2019/01/02/dave-plez-putt-with-the-flagstick-in-rule-change-2018

> > > > > > > His testing was from 1990.....sure, golf balls have changed a bit since then, but physics hasn't.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > In those tests, he was using fast speeds...speeds that would more likely occur when chipping the ball (more variance in distance control), than speeds that would typically happen when putting. Especially faster than the speeds are when putting from closer distances.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > How do you know that???? Or did you just make that up? According to the article:

> > > > > "The testing was performed with a special putting device built to roll putts accurately aimed with a laser—and a true, pure roll—from two feet away. We rolled putts at different speeds hitting different parts of the pin on flat, uphill and downhill sloping greens. The test results were conclusive: You will hole a higher percentage of putts when you leave the flagstick in."

> > > > >

> > > > > These are Pelz's words, not mine.

> > > >

> > > > It has been discussed in the tens of threads covering this subject ever since the new rules were published.

> > > >

> > > > Here's one source, the man himself:

> > > >

> > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golf.com/instruction/flag-or-out/amp/

> > >

> > > Not buying it. I found the studies (with accompanying video) claiming the opposite to be more credible and convincing. I've also got over 75 rounds in this season watching many putts with stick both in and out and my completely unscientific observations confirm that it hurts more than it helps. ?

> >

> > You're not buying Pelz's word on him running the balls 3, 6 and 9 feet past the hole rendering the test pointless for putts? That's what I was replying to. :)

>

> Nope...lol! But with my own eyes I saw the video on the Cal Poly study of the ball being deflected when striking the pin off-center. Same putts went in the hole with the stick removed. Was pretty convincing

 

Putts were going too fast. The most common pin, fiberglass, > @dpb5031 said:

> > @Halebopp said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @Halebopp said:

> > > > > @"Crazy About Golf" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > > > @"Crazy About Golf" said:

> > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > Disagree. It's not subjective. The earlier touted studies were significantly flawed. Several only measured dead center strikes with thin fiberglass flagsticks or balls rolling 100 mph. Those I'm speaking of measured center and off-center pin strikes as well as straight and breaking putts, plus had data points for putts rolling at several different speeds. They also sampled flagsticks of various size and materials.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In terms of pace of play, it only really helps pace if everyone agrees to leave it in, and can actually add time if you're pulling it and replacing it for each player. I've played over 75 rounds this year, and save for a brief experiment in leaving it in when the rule first changed, I've yet to encounter unanimity on the issue amongst a foursome. The exception being state and local tournament rounds where the consensus was PIN OUT except for very long putts or severely fast/sloping putts where speed was less controllable.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > IMO slow players always figure out a way to be slow and pin in or out isn't going to make a substantial difference even if everyone did leave it in.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm not disputing you or advocating for one side or another, as I'm still on the fence with this one......but it seems that a pretty well-respected short game guy says to leave the pin in for putting:

> > > > > > > https://www.golf.com/Instruction/2019/01/02/dave-plez-putt-with-the-flagstick-in-rule-change-2018

> > > > > > > His testing was from 1990.....sure, golf balls have changed a bit since then, but physics hasn't.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > In those tests, he was using fast speeds...speeds that would more likely occur when chipping the ball (more variance in distance control), than speeds that would typically happen when putting. Especially faster than the speeds are when putting from closer distances.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > How do you know that???? Or did you just make that up? According to the article:

> > > > > "The testing was performed with a special putting device built to roll putts accurately aimed with a laser—and a true, pure roll—from two feet away. We rolled putts at different speeds hitting different parts of the pin on flat, uphill and downhill sloping greens. The test results were conclusive: You will hole a higher percentage of putts when you leave the flagstick in."

> > > > >

> > > > > These are Pelz's words, not mine.

> > > >

> > > > It has been discussed in the tens of threads covering this subject ever since the new rules were published.

> > > >

> > > > Here's one source, the man himself:

> > > >

> > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golf.com/instruction/flag-or-out/amp/

> > >

> > > Not buying it. I found the studies (with accompanying video) claiming the opposite to be more credible and convincing. I've also got over 75 rounds in this season watching many putts with stick both in and out and my completely unscientific observations confirm that it hurts more than it helps. ?

> >

> > You're not buying Pelz's word on him running the balls 3, 6 and 9 feet past the hole rendering the test pointless for putts? That's what I was replying to. :)

>

> Nope...lol! But with my own eyes I saw the video on the Cal Poly study of the ball being deflected when striking the pin off-center. Same putts went in the hole with the stick removed. Was pretty convincing

 

I learned a few things and the Cal Poly study is interesting but incomplete (at least what I saw). No disputing that 5'-7' past of speed pin out is better especially with aluminium pins. Heck I didn't even know some pins are aluminium as I've never seen them. Anyway 5-7ft past is simply too fast for most putts. The study should have included more optimal speed putts and if they'd done so, I bet the difference with pin in v out is a wash. Having played virtually all season with the pin in with all my groups, I've only seen two deflected--- those had some extra pace so it's debatable on whether the pin hurt or not.

[dpb5031]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @Halebopp said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @Halebopp said:

> > > > > > @"Crazy About Golf" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > > > > @"Crazy About Golf" said:

> > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > Disagree. It's not subjective. The earlier touted studies were significantly flawed. Several only measured dead center strikes with thin fiberglass flagsticks or balls rolling 100 mph. Those I'm speaking of measured center and off-center pin strikes as well as straight and breaking putts, plus had data points for putts rolling at several different speeds. They also sampled flagsticks of various size and materials.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In terms of pace of play, it only really helps pace if everyone agrees to leave it in, and can actually add time if you're pulling it and replacing it for each player. I've played over 75 rounds this year, and save for a brief experiment in leaving it in when the rule first changed, I've yet to encounter unanimity on the issue amongst a foursome. The exception being state and local tournament rounds where the consensus was PIN OUT except for very long putts or severely fast/sloping putts where speed was less controllable.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > IMO slow players always figure out a way to be slow and pin in or out isn't going to make a substantial difference even if everyone did leave it in.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm not disputing you or advocating for one side or another, as I'm still on the fence with this one......but it seems that a pretty well-respected short game guy says to leave the pin in for putting:

> > > > > > > > https://www.golf.com/Instruction/2019/01/02/dave-plez-putt-with-the-flagstick-in-rule-change-2018

> > > > > > > > His testing was from 1990.....sure, golf balls have changed a bit since then, but physics hasn't.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In those tests, he was using fast speeds...speeds that would more likely occur when chipping the ball (more variance in distance control), than speeds that would typically happen when putting. Especially faster than the speeds are when putting from closer distances.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How do you know that???? Or did you just make that up? According to the article:

> > > > > > "The testing was performed with a special putting device built to roll putts accurately aimed with a laser—and a true, pure roll—from two feet away. We rolled putts at different speeds hitting different parts of the pin on flat, uphill and downhill sloping greens. The test results were conclusive: You will hole a higher percentage of putts when you leave the flagstick in."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > These are Pelz's words, not mine.

> > > > >

> > > > > It has been discussed in the tens of threads covering this subject ever since the new rules were published.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here's one source, the man himself:

> > > > >

> > > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golf.com/instruction/flag-or-out/amp/

> > > >

> > > > Not buying it. I found the studies (with accompanying video) claiming the opposite to be more credible and convincing. I've also got over 75 rounds in this season watching many putts with stick both in and out and my completely unscientific observations confirm that it hurts more than it helps. ?

> > >

> > > You're not buying Pelz's word on him running the balls 3, 6 and 9 feet past the hole rendering the test pointless for putts? That's what I was replying to. :)

> >

> > Nope...lol! But with my own eyes I saw the video on the Cal Poly study of the ball being deflected when striking the pin off-center. Same putts went in the hole with the stick removed. Was pretty convincing

>

> Putts were going too fast. The most common pin, fiberglass, > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @Halebopp said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @Halebopp said:

> > > > > > @"Crazy About Golf" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > > > > @"Crazy About Golf" said:

> > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > Disagree. It's not subjective. The earlier touted studies were significantly flawed. Several only measured dead center strikes with thin fiberglass flagsticks or balls rolling 100 mph. Those I'm speaking of measured center and off-center pin strikes as well as straight and breaking putts, plus had data points for putts rolling at several different speeds. They also sampled flagsticks of various size and materials.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In terms of pace of play, it only really helps pace if everyone agrees to leave it in, and can actually add time if you're pulling it and replacing it for each player. I've played over 75 rounds this year, and save for a brief experiment in leaving it in when the rule first changed, I've yet to encounter unanimity on the issue amongst a foursome. The exception being state and local tournament rounds where the consensus was PIN OUT except for very long putts or severely fast/sloping putts where speed was less controllable.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > IMO slow players always figure out a way to be slow and pin in or out isn't going to make a substantial difference even if everyone did leave it in.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm not disputing you or advocating for one side or another, as I'm still on the fence with this one......but it seems that a pretty well-respected short game guy says to leave the pin in for putting:

> > > > > > > > https://www.golf.com/Instruction/2019/01/02/dave-plez-putt-with-the-flagstick-in-rule-change-2018

> > > > > > > > His testing was from 1990.....sure, golf balls have changed a bit since then, but physics hasn't.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In those tests, he was using fast speeds...speeds that would more likely occur when chipping the ball (more variance in distance control), than speeds that would typically happen when putting. Especially faster than the speeds are when putting from closer distances.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How do you know that???? Or did you just make that up? According to the article:

> > > > > > "The testing was performed with a special putting device built to roll putts accurately aimed with a laser—and a true, pure roll—from two feet away. We rolled putts at different speeds hitting different parts of the pin on flat, uphill and downhill sloping greens. The test results were conclusive: You will hole a higher percentage of putts when you leave the flagstick in."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > These are Pelz's words, not mine.

> > > > >

> > > > > It has been discussed in the tens of threads covering this subject ever since the new rules were published.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here's one source, the man himself:

> > > > >

> > > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golf.com/instruction/flag-or-out/amp/

> > > >

> > > > Not buying it. I found the studies (with accompanying video) claiming the opposite to be more credible and convincing. I've also got over 75 rounds in this season watching many putts with stick both in and out and my completely unscientific observations confirm that it hurts more than it helps. ?

> > >

> > > You're not buying Pelz's word on him running the balls 3, 6 and 9 feet past the hole rendering the test pointless for putts? That's what I was replying to. :)

> >

> > Nope...lol! But with my own eyes I saw the video on the Cal Poly study of the ball being deflected when striking the pin off-center. Same putts went in the hole with the stick removed. Was pretty convincing

>

> I learned a few things and the Cal Poly study is interesting but incomplete (at least what I saw). No disputing that 5'-7' past of speed pin out is better especially with aluminium pins. Heck I didn't even know some pins are aluminium as I've never seen them. Anyway 5-7ft past is simply too fast for most putts. The study should have included more optimal speed putts and if they'd done so, I bet the difference with pin in v out is a wash. Having played virtually all season with the pin in with all my groups, I've only seen two deflected--- those had some extra pace so it's debatable on whether the pin hurt or not.

 

Agreed. Cal Poly study determined there was no significant difference with putts rolling at a speed of 3' by the hole or less. They basically all went in. There was a significant difference on putts rolled at a 4.5" past the hole pace on off-center pin strikes dramatically in favor of pin-out.

 

What's interesting is that in my observation, most guys who otherwise want the pin out, will often leave it in for fast downhillers assuming the pin will help. The study indicates they'd be better off leaving it out. It's not until speed is 8-9' or more past the hole that it shifts to the pin actually helping to keep the ball closer to the hole (or even in if dead center) on pin strikes

[Roadking2003]

> @dayvei214 said:

> Also 80 rounds?! That's amazing... What do you average annually? > @dayvei214 said:

> > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > @dayvei214 said:

> > > > > My only grief now is that I just adds more time @ the amateur level... Joe wants it out Jeff wants it in. But like a guy I played with said "it's your game and you paid the fee, play your game"

> > > >

> > > > After about 80 rounds this year, that has never happened.

> > >

> > > Agreed haven't seen it happen either even in my tournament rounds. It's a definite time saver.

> >

> > Just the luck of my draw I suppose. In or out for me doesn't matter. Lately I've been clearing it up with the group first hole to keep the game moving.

>

> Also 80 rounds?! That's amazing... What do you average annually?

 

Around 140.

[sui generis]

Reffed a Carolinas Match Play today. Thirty college players and two geezers, one 29 and a dad. All I saw left the flagstick in anywhere outside ten feet.

[dayvei214]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @dayvei214 said:

> > Also 80 rounds?! That's amazing... What do you average annually? > @dayvei214 said:

> > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > @dayvei214 said:

> > > > > > My only grief now is that I just adds more time @ the amateur level... Joe wants it out Jeff wants it in. But like a guy I played with said "it's your game and you paid the fee, play your game"

> > > > >

> > > > > After about 80 rounds this year, that has never happened.

> > > >

> > > > Agreed haven't seen it happen either even in my tournament rounds. It's a definite time saver.

> > >

> > > Just the luck of my draw I suppose. In or out for me doesn't matter. Lately I've been clearing it up with the group first hole to keep the game moving.

> >

> > Also 80 rounds?! That's amazing... What do you average annually?

>

> Around 140.

 

One day... When I retire 40 years from now

[hybrid25]

Our group never takes the flag out unless we have trouble removing a ball.

[Mudguard]

> @dayvei214 said:

> My only grief now is that I just adds more time @ the amateur level... Joe wants it out Jeff wants it in. But like a guy I played with said "it's your game and you paid the fee, play your game"

 

This is happened to my friends yesterday, we were two three balls playing at another course. Two singles joined both groups. The single ahead of us insisted having the pin in until her ball was holed. Our group and everyone else generally pull it once we get inside 20 feet unless it's a pretty twitchy one. They pulled out through the turn but I think they wound up insisting that she putt first at all times and finish out.

 

 

[idrive]

Sadly the "Art" of tending the pin shall forever be lost and forgotten.

[Mudguard]

> @idrive said:

> Sadly the "Art" of tending the pin shall forever be lost and forgotten.

It only became an art because of the rules. Now the rule has gone, there's no need to worry about yanking the pin in time. More amusingly was seeing a cup come up with the pin and stop the putt! I wasn't tending the pin or putting but I couldn't stop laughing.

 

[ThinkingPlus]

> @idrive said:

> Sadly the "Art" of tending the pin shall forever be lost and forgotten.

 

Some of us will continue keeping it alive.

[sui generis]

> @idrive said:

> Sadly the "Art" of tending the pin shall forever be lost and forgotten.

 

Gone, gone and gone . . . kind of like these

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @idrive said:

> Sadly the "Art" of tending the pin shall forever be lost and forgotten.

 

Kind of like getting up to change the channel, adjusting rabbit ears for a better picture or calling 411 to get a phone number. :)

[dlygrisse]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> Dave Pelz: The science proves you should leave the flagstick in when you putt

> https://www.golf.com/Instruction/2019/01/02/dave-plez-putt-with-the-flagstick-in-rule-change-2018

>

And this

 

But we only remember the ones that bounced out. Not the ones that stayed in. Science says leave it in. 50 years from now no one pulls it except when the wind is blowing the stick towards you. And if the they made the flagstick more rigid that would be a non issue as well. Leaving it I. Lowers scores, by a tiny bit.

[dayvei214]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > @idrive said:

> > Sadly the "Art" of tending the pin shall forever be lost and forgotten.

>

> Kind of like getting up to change the channel, adjusting rabbit ears for a better picture or calling 411 to get a phone number. :)

 

Or being kind and rewind.... What has this world come too?

[Imp]

Well, this weekend, I hit the pin almost dead center. It bounced out. I mis-read the speed, and would have probably left it 5+ feet by the hole anyways had the pin not been there, leaving it 2" from the cup. Everyone was saying "that would have caught the back of the cup!" I disagree, it would have more than likely caught the edge, and ... lipped out farther than 2" vs the pin being left in (which killed the pace tremendously).

 

--kC

[Ski5280]

I like the rule change, but I have noticed that the edges of the holes are getting more beat up from people taking their balls out.

[slocagolfer]

On sunny, windy days you can see the shadow of the flag flapping when the pin is in. How people can putt with that happening is beyond me.

[chippa13]

I guess that same wind doesn't rustle leaves or anything on your course?

[sui generis]

“The least thing upset him on the links. He missed short putts because of the uproar of the butterflies in the adjoining meadows. ” ― P.G. Wodehouse

[BlackDiamondPar5]

 

 

> @slocagolfer said:

> On sunny, windy days you can see the shadow of the flag flapping when the pin is in. How people can putt with that happening is beyond me.

 

Gotta toughen up mentally :)

[Shilgy]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

>

>

> > @slocagolfer said:

> > On sunny, windy days you can see the shadow of the flag flapping when the pin is in. How people can putt with that happening is beyond me.

>

> Gotta toughen up mentally :)

 

Or just pull the pin. ?

 

[I_HATE_SNOW]

> @slocagolfer said:

> On sunny, windy days you can see the shadow of the flag flapping when the pin is in. How people can putt with that happening is beyond me.

 

Concentrate? Or realize that whether you make or miss, your life will be the same?

[ibradley]

I have about 140 rounds so far this year. We never remove the pin. I have seen a few putts that we debated whether they would have dropped without the pin. We have seen lots that we were sure would not have stayed in. We find it speeds up play a lot. Even when someone wants it out and then back in. We also find the vertical line of the pin makes it easier to read putts. The biggest bonus we find is it is much easier to get putts 5 feet and in to the hole. I think our brains are better at hitting at an object than to a hole.

[Quasimoto]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

>

>

> > @slocagolfer said:

> > On sunny, windy days you can see the shadow of the flag flapping when the pin is in. How people can putt with that happening is beyond me.

>

> Gotta toughen up mentally :)

 

So the pros need to toughen up mentally when they have to back away due to a spectator?

Certain things bother people - different things bother different people.

I say it is being mentally tough to set up the conditions on the stroke that give that person the best chance for success with that stroke.

Kind of like giving it your best on every shot.

Where I play, typically the flag stick is the least of the putting condition issues, it makes no difference in or out anymore.

Most missed putts that are on the hole are due to the hole edges being broken down - and spitting balls out - due to people fat fisting the hole or using a putter when removing the ball.

This is the new reality of being able to leave the flag stick in. As such, I am not a fan.

[ibradley]

> @Quasimoto said:

> > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> >

> >

> > > @slocagolfer said:

> > > On sunny, windy days you can see the shadow of the flag flapping when the pin is in. How people can putt with that happening is beyond me.

> >

> > Gotta toughen up mentally :)

>

> So the pros need to toughen up mentally when they have to back away due to a spectator?

> Certain things bother people - different things bother different people.

> I say it is being mentally tough to set up the conditions on the stroke that give that person the best chance for success with that stroke.

> Kind of like giving it your best on every shot.

> Where I play, typically the flag stick is the least of the putting condition issues, it makes no difference in or out anymore.

> Most missed putts that are on the hole are due to the hole edges being broken down - and spitting balls out - due to people fat fisting the hole or using a putter when removing the ball.

> This is the new reality of being able to leave the flag stick in. As such, I am not a fan.

 

My group of guys decided we were going to leave the flag in under every circumstance. My experience is you get used to shadows, waving pins and every possible circumstance. You don't even notice after awhile. I play every day though so my adjusting curve is quicker than most. I agree with you completely that the etiquette of the game requires that I don't force my beliefs on my fellow players.

 

I haven't noticed the broken cups yet. I'll keep a closer eye out.

[North Butte]

> @Quasimoto said:

> > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> >

> >

> > > @slocagolfer said:

> > > On sunny, windy days you can see the shadow of the flag flapping when the pin is in. How people can putt with that happening is beyond me.

> >

> > Gotta toughen up mentally :)

>

> So the pros need to toughen up mentally when they have to back away due to a spectator?

 

For a great many tour pros, yes they need to toughen up mentally. It's obvious to anyone who has seen golf on TV that many of these guys are prima donnas and a fair number of them are emotional basket cases.

 

They are coddled beyond belief by everything from the Tour to the tournament organizers and volunteers to the Rules officials to their personal "mental-game coaches". And yet they persist in over-reacting like every crying baby, clicking shutter or moving shadow is some sort of nerve-rattling, impossible to ignore assualt on their mental composure. It's laughable.

[Shilgy]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @Quasimoto said:

> > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > >

> > >

> > > > @slocagolfer said:

> > > > On sunny, windy days you can see the shadow of the flag flapping when the pin is in. How people can putt with that happening is beyond me.

> > >

> > > Gotta toughen up mentally :)

> >

> > So the pros need to toughen up mentally when they have to back away due to a spectator?

>

> For a great many tour pros, yes they need to toughen up mentally. It's obvious to anyone who has seen golf on TV that many of these guys are prima donnas and a fair number of them are emotional basket cases.

>

> They are coddled beyond belief by everything from the Tour to the tournament organizers and volunteers to the Rules officials to their personal "mental-game coaches". And yet they persist in over-reacting like every crying baby, clicking shutter or moving shadow is some sort of nerve-rattling, impossible to ignore assualt on their mental composure. It's laughable.

 

I have the of feeling that if you, or any of us, were playing for our livelihood on the circus known at the PGA Tour we would behave the same way.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @Quasimoto said:

> > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> >

> >

> > > @slocagolfer said:

> > > On sunny, windy days you can see the shadow of the flag flapping when the pin is in. How people can putt with that happening is beyond me.

> >

> > Gotta toughen up mentally :)

>

> So the pros need to toughen up mentally when they have to back away due to a spectator?

> Certain things bother people - different things bother different people.

> I say it is being mentally tough to set up the conditions on the stroke that give that person the best chance for success with that stroke.

> Kind of like giving it your best on every shot.

> Where I play, typically the flag stick is the least of the putting condition issues, it makes no difference in or out anymore.

> Most missed putts that are on the hole are due to the hole edges being broken down - and spitting balls out - due to people fat fisting the hole or using a putter when removing the ball.

> This is the new reality of being able to leave the flag stick in. As such, I am not a fan.

 

I wasn't talking about spectators or any sudden noises that CAN be startling. However the sound of a flapping flag should not be a bother. However if the flag is flapping a lot then it's also probably causing the flagstick to lean and/or bounce around and could interfere with a ball dropping, at which point it would be advisable to pull.