Should Cameron Champ get away from Sean Foley?

[QuigleyDU]

> @Ferguson said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

>

> I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

 

Lots of big words there pilgram. We be but simple folk round here...

[MK7Golf21]

> @lowheel said:

> > @Redjeep83 said:

> > the bad wrap with Foley was him "telling" Tiger how to swing the golf club. Tiger should of been telling him how to and Foley being a second pair of eyes.

>

> its was way more than that. he told him to crowd the ball and get flatter to eliminate the left miss. it wrecked every part of his game. guys a snake oil salesman. ive seen him talk up close lots of 5$ words with no substance

 

yea, I know he's like that and that's what I was saying, he "told" him how to swing which was the method he was into at the time.

[the bishop]

> @lowheel said:

> > @Redjeep83 said:

> > the bad wrap with Foley was him "telling" Tiger how to swing the golf club. Tiger should of been telling him how to and Foley being a second pair of eyes.

>

> its was way more than that. **he told him to crowd the ball and get flatter** to eliminate the left miss. it wrecked every part of his game. guys a snake oil salesman. ive seen him talk up close lots of 5$ words with no substance

Wait, is that part documented somewhere because I laughed out loud when I read it.

 

[straightshot7]

You can see under Foley (first video) Tiger's swing was a more narrow stance and less weight transfer to his rear foot in the backswing. It's more of a centered, stack n tilt type swing. I think this creates too much vertical body movement and doesn't give Tiger room to clear.

 

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=ffANaGphsh0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffANaGphsh0 "https://youtube.com/watch?v=ffANaGphsh0")

 

See below the difference in his 2001 swing. He moves more laterally and freely and has a noticeably wider stance. His swing today is more like this than it was under Foldme. Notice the left foot almost flat at the finish.

 

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=z7Zxn24P35M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Zxn24P35M "https://youtube.com/watch?v=z7Zxn24P35M")

 

^Also is that Brandle Chamblee watching Tiger? LOL

[Titleist99]

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > I seem to remember when this young kid came on tour (around 1997) knocking it past everyone but constantly air mailing the greens with his wedges and hitting it pin high only forty feet from the hole. The announcer at the time kept saying "man this kid's going to be a great player once he develop an arm swing with his wedges.....every tournament the announcer would say the same thing until that kid shortly developed that swing....That announcer was Ken Verturi and that kid was Tiger Woods.

>

> In Tiger's first seven tournaments as a professional in 1996, he finished top-11 in six of them, top-5 in five, top-3 in four, and finished 1st twice. In his first three tournaments in 1997, he finished 1st in one and 2nd in another. That is not really a good comparison to Cameron Champ.

 

How did I know that this board would think that I was comparing Champ to Woods!?! (rhetorical). LOL! ….. My only point is that he needs to develop an arm swing, maybe find him a short game coach. Jack and Tiger are in a class by themselves. Sorry for not being totally clear.

[PowderedToastMan]

Not going to comment on Foley as a coach, but I think Champ should seek out an older coach, someone who is less obsessed with Trackman and someone who can teach him shots. Regardless, I think it’s time for a change. Even when Champ won, there were major holes in his game and he simply lacks the ability to hit certain shots. It’s all massive shaft lean and steep cuts.

 

I’m often an advocate of not making huge changes during a slump, but in Cameron’s case, I think a new set of reliable eyes would be hugely beneficial.

[burritos4breakfast]

he should have never switched up to the new ping equipment, thats what screwed him up.

[Fairway14]

> @LICC said:Is Sean Foley ruining this kid?

Probably yes, Foley is hurting Cameron Champ.

The best instructors keep things simple, such as teaching grip, posture and alignment. Butch Harmon's great success with Tour players is mostly do to him teaching the good sense time tested fundamentals, which he learned from his father. Jack Nicklaus instructor Jack Grout was the same way.

 

[ebrasmus21]

> @PowderedToastMan said:

> Not going to comment on Foley as a coach, but I think Champ should seek out an older coach, someone who is less obsessed with Trackman and someone who can teach him shots. Regardless, I think it’s time for a change. Even when Champ won, there were major holes in his game and he simply lacks the ability to hit certain shots. It’s all massive shaft lean and steep cuts.

>

> I’m often an advocate of not making huge changes during a slump, but in Cameron’s case, I think a new set of reliable eyes would be hugely beneficial.

 

Cam’s new coach. Need I say more?

 

[grm24]

Good article on Champ. Not a long read.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/cameron-champ-made-winning-look-easy-at-the-2018-sanderson-farms-nearly-a-year-later-he-knows-better

[burritos4breakfast]

> @ebrasmus21 said:

> > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > Not going to comment on Foley as a coach, but I think Champ should seek out an older coach, someone who is less obsessed with Trackman and someone who can teach him shots. Regardless, I think it’s time for a change. Even when Champ won, there were major holes in his game and he simply lacks the ability to hit certain shots. It’s all massive shaft lean and steep cuts.

> >

> > I’m often an advocate of not making huge changes during a slump, but in Cameron’s case, I think a new set of reliable eyes would be hugely beneficial.

>

> Cam’s new coach. Need I say more?

>

>

 

that would be ironic as his star pupil has also fallen off considerably. dont 'see any should ZJ dump bender' threads though heh

[Hawkeye77]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @Ferguson said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

> >

> > I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

>

> Lots of big words there pilgram. We be but simple folk round here...

 

LOL - when you start as a penal colony. ;-)

[GoGoErky]

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > I seem to remember when this young kid came on tour (around 1997) knocking it past everyone but constantly air mailing the greens with his wedges and hitting it pin high only forty feet from the hole. The announcer at the time kept saying "man this kid's going to be a great player once he develop an arm swing with his wedges.....every tournament the announcer would say the same thing until that kid shortly developed that swing....That announcer was Ken Verturi and that kid was Tiger Woods.

>

> In Tiger's first seven tournaments as a professional in 1996, he finished top-11 in six of them, top-5 in five, top-3 in four, and finished 1st twice. In his first three tournaments in 1997, he finished 1st in one and 2nd in another. That is not really a good comparison to Cameron Champ.

 

DJ is a much better comparison in first year results.

[QuigleyDU]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

> > >

> > > I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

> >

> > Lots of big words there pilgram. We be but simple folk round here...

>

> LOL - when you start as a penal colony. ;-)

 

haha

[Hawkeye77]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

> > > >

> > > > I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

> > >

> > > Lots of big words there pilgram. We be but simple folk round here...

> >

> > LOL - when you start as a penal colony. ;-)

>

> haha

Couldn’t resist!

 

[straightshot7]

> @burritos4breakfast said:

> > @ebrasmus21 said:

> > > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > > Not going to comment on Foley as a coach, but I think Champ should seek out an older coach, someone who is less obsessed with Trackman and someone who can teach him shots. Regardless, I think it’s time for a change. Even when Champ won, there were major holes in his game and he simply lacks the ability to hit certain shots. It’s all massive shaft lean and steep cuts.

> > >

> > > I’m often an advocate of not making huge changes during a slump, but in Cameron’s case, I think a new set of reliable eyes would be hugely beneficial.

> >

> > Cam’s new coach. Need I say more?

> >

> >

>

> that would be ironic as his star pupil has also fallen off considerably. dont 'see any should ZJ dump bender' threads though heh

 

ZJ is 43 years old and doesn't hit the ball very far. I don't think that's a fair comparison to Champ or something to blame on Bender.

[ebrasmus21]

> @straightshot7 said:

> > @burritos4breakfast said:

> > > @ebrasmus21 said:

> > > > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > > > Not going to comment on Foley as a coach, but I think Champ should seek out an older coach, someone who is less obsessed with Trackman and someone who can teach him shots. Regardless, I think it’s time for a change. Even when Champ won, there were major holes in his game and he simply lacks the ability to hit certain shots. It’s all massive shaft lean and steep cuts.

> > > >

> > > > I’m often an advocate of not making huge changes during a slump, but in Cameron’s case, I think a new set of reliable eyes would be hugely beneficial.

> > >

> > > Cam’s new coach. Need I say more?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > that would be ironic as his star pupil has also fallen off considerably. dont 'see any should ZJ dump bender' threads though heh

>

> ZJ is 43 years old and doesn't hit the ball very far. I don't think that's a far comparison to Champ or something to blame on Bender.

 

The best part would be if Bender convinced Champ to wear a straw hat.

[buckeyefl]

> @ebrasmus21 said:

> > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > Not going to comment on Foley as a coach, but I think Champ should seek out an older coach, someone who is less obsessed with Trackman and someone who can teach him shots. Regardless, I think it’s time for a change. Even when Champ won, there were major holes in his game and he simply lacks the ability to hit certain shots. It’s all massive shaft lean and steep cuts.

> >

> > I’m often an advocate of not making huge changes during a slump, but in Cameron’s case, I think a new set of reliable eyes would be hugely beneficial.

>

> Cam’s new coach. Need I say more?

>

>

 

That would be a huge mistake.

[Neurotica]

> @Ferguson said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

>

> I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

 

Well played sir.

 

[Ferguson]

E. Fritz Roberts, a "Harvey Penick" style instructor, would be perfect for this kid.

Too bad he's retired.

[Ferguson]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @Ferguson said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

> >

> > I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

>

> Lots of big words there pilgram. We be but simple folk round here...

 

 

 

Methinks I summed it up nicely.

 

 

[QuigleyDU]

> @Ferguson said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

> > >

> > > I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

> >

> > Lots of big words there pilgram. We be but simple folk round here...

>

>

>

> Methinks I summed it up nicely.

>

>

>

 

hahaha... true.

[ebrasmus21]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @ebrasmus21 said:

> > > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > > Not going to comment on Foley as a coach, but I think Champ should seek out an older coach, someone who is less obsessed with Trackman and someone who can teach him shots. Regardless, I think it’s time for a change. Even when Champ won, there were major holes in his game and he simply lacks the ability to hit certain shots. It’s all massive shaft lean and steep cuts.

> > >

> > > I’m often an advocate of not making huge changes during a slump, but in Cameron’s case, I think a new set of reliable eyes would be hugely beneficial.

> >

> > Cam’s new coach. Need I say more?

> >

> >

>

> That would be a huge mistake.

 

Wisdom:

 

[Man_O_War]

how else would he get his sagital, transverse planes to match up without Foley

[BottleCap]

As an American I don't like Foley because he's from the Pretentious North, but he's gotten Champ this far. Who's to say Champ isn't just a cart barn runt at this point without Foley.

[the bishop]

> @ebrasmus21 said:

> > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > Not going to comment on Foley as a coach, but I think Champ should seek out an older coach, someone who is less obsessed with Trackman and someone who can teach him shots. Regardless, I think it’s time for a change. Even when Champ won, there were major holes in his game and he simply lacks the ability to hit certain shots. It’s all massive shaft lean and steep cuts.

> >

> > I’m often an advocate of not making huge changes during a slump, but in Cameron’s case, I think a new set of reliable eyes would be hugely beneficial.

>

> Cam’s new coach. Need I say more?

>

>

 

But do you get a free Bender Stick if you sign up w/him?

[ebrasmus21]

> @"the bishop" said:

> > @ebrasmus21 said:

> > > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > > Not going to comment on Foley as a coach, but I think Champ should seek out an older coach, someone who is less obsessed with Trackman and someone who can teach him shots. Regardless, I think it’s time for a change. Even when Champ won, there were major holes in his game and he simply lacks the ability to hit certain shots. It’s all massive shaft lean and steep cuts.

> > >

> > > I’m often an advocate of not making huge changes during a slump, but in Cameron’s case, I think a new set of reliable eyes would be hugely beneficial.

> >

> > Cam’s new coach. Need I say more?

> >

> >

>

> But do you get a free Bender Stick if you sign up w/him?

 

Let’s hope so!!

[adc03]

His irons are weak, but if he could somehow get his 100 and in wedge shots down and middle of the road putting he would be a beast. He’s obviously talented, but driver length is more natural ability not coaching. If Foley can’t get his irons and wedges better by now it’s time to move on.

[Golf Scientist]

> @ebrasmus21 said:

 

>

 

That guy hit a pretty good bunker shot after doing what Bender advocated. Even if it looked pretty weird. I'll give him credit for that. Guessing he was just doing it to emphasize that an arm swing would work, and that body motion wasn't necessary. I've seen other instructors demonstrate similar things, but just without goofy after loops.

 

BTW: speaking of people leaving Foley. With the way Rose has been with his ball striking lately maybe it's time for him to move on as well, but that is a topic for another thread.

[PowderedToastMan]

> @BottleCap said:

> As an American I don't like Foley because he's from the Pretentious North, but he's gotten Champ this far. Who's to say Champ isn't just a cart barn runt at this point without Foley.

 

Well, you are officially the first person in the world to refer to Canada as the “pretentious north”.