Should Cameron Champ get away from Sean Foley?

[BeerPerHole]

When Cam was younger he worked with our head pro at my club for a while. Our pro said Cam just quit coming one day - as I can imagine is not unusual with juniors. Regarding the OP question - I don't know much about Foley, but I think Cam would do well with Butch.

[musclefront]

....

[musclefront]

> @musclefront said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > If how a complete stranger dresses and carries himself gets your thong in a wad, I'd say that is a problem

>

Cool. Same goes for you caring about a complete strangers comments as well

 

[grm24]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @"Golf Scientist" said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > leadbetter...false. both KO and Wie exploded when going to him for a prolonged period of time. haney and foley...smh.

> > >

> > > foley has had 1 star pupil and you could argue he maintained the same course regardless of foley -- and that's rose.

> >

> > The poster could have been referring to Leadbetter's successful run with Nick Faldo and Nick Price. If you're relatively new to golf then you may not be aware how good those guys were, and that those guys worked successfully with him. (Granted both Faldo and Price are very intelligent guys, and are due just as much credit - if not more - for becoming the great players they were). If you haven't read or seen any of the Faldo and Price instruction books or videos you've been missing out.

> >

> > I agree in your opinion that Rose is the only quality player to have worked with Foley. In some ways I think it may have just been dumb luck that he happen to suggest to Rose that a more arms focused swing would work better than the x-factor style swing Rose was trying to make at the time. Given that Rose would fit into a momentum classification style of swing in recent years, and that I can't recall Foley ever advocating momentum in any of his instruction I'm highly suspect Rose figured it out on his own.

>

> Foley has had a few decent students. Most have faded. I attribute much of that to the fact the LOTS of tour pros fade. I am sure if you looked at the list of those who have worked with any coach, you will have a long list of burn outs.

 

Seems that under Sean Foley Danny Willet is doing quite well at the current time. Willet had back issues before he started working with Foley.

 

https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/notebook-danny-willett-sean-foley/

https://www.golf.com/instruction/2018/11/19/danny-willett-sean-foley-swing-analysis

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-side-of-danny-willett-more-american-golf-fans-should-get-to-know-john-feinstein

 

 

[straightshot7]

> @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > @straightshot7 said:

> > > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Langlands said:

> > > > > Sean Foley has been working with Danny Willett and he is doing well, so he can't be that bad a coach. I don't imagine Tiger Woods would have chosen to work with him either if he didn't think he knew what he was doing.

> > > >

> > > > Tiger dumped him after not too long and stopped using his swing techniques

> > >

> > > "Not too long"? He was with Foley for about 4 years.

> > >

> > > Tiger had the choice of any golf instructor in the world, and he chose Foley.

> > >

> > > I'm not some crazy Foley Fanatic, but those are the facts and they're in Foley's favour.

> >

> > Lots of very rich and very smart people let Bernie Madoff manage their money, too.

> >

> > That doesn't mean he was any good at it.

>

> True, although Madoff wasn't just lying, he was crooked and cheating too. That's why he's in jail.

>

> Not sure how you cheat at golf instruction. I doubt Foley will go to jail - at least not for his golf instruction.

>

> Tiger's the best of this era. In finance, guys like Gates, Buffet, Icahn, Templeton are among the best. TTBOMK none of them invested in Madoff's scams.

>

> Not sure that it matters. You are implying that Tiger Woods couldn't tell who was a good golf instructor and coach. I think he could. Probably more than anyone.

 

I was mostly just joking but the point is true--- someone choosing you is not proof that you're good at what you do.

 

Tiger Woods was the best at playing golf. Choosing an instructor is a different task. Someone could suck at golf and still be good at choosing an instructor.

 

I think Foley offered something that Tiger found appealing at the time. A swing that would potentially still produce distance without needing to snap his knee and swing the way he always had. Probably some other ideas he found appealing.

 

But Tiger is fallable like everyone else.

 

If you really want to defend Foley you'd have to look at his teachings and demonstrate objectively how they are good.

[cdnglf]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Langlands said:

> > > > > > > Sean Foley has been working with Danny Willett and he is doing well, so he can't be that bad a coach. I don't imagine Tiger Woods would have chosen to work with him either if he didn't think he knew what he was doing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tiger dumped him after not too long and stopped using his swing techniques

> > > > >

> > > > > He also had a 4 or 5 win season under Foley. So....

> > > >

> > > > Tiger won lots of tournaments while Hank Haney was his "teacher". Means nothing.

> > > > As a junior player Tiger learned sound fundamentals , so (later in his playing career) not even charlatan's like Haney or Foley could mess Tiger up bad enough to prevent him from winning events.

> > >

> > > I think that is a bit near sighted and judgemental. Tiger went to both Haney and Foley for a reason. I think you could make the argument that Tiger played his very best under Haney and not Butch. If these two men are "charlatans" as you say. Butch is even more so...

> >

> > This is one of the most detailed things I have seen on TWs work with both BH and HH from a technical standpoint.

> >

> > https://www.espn.com/golf/news/story?id=1946259

> >

> > Under Haney, Woods is working less on "matching up" the speed of upper and lower body and more on putting his backswing and downswing on the same plane. He and Haney believe when that objective is achieved it is much easier to make a tighter, more connected swing in which the body fires in proper sequence. Woods' swing is also less upright than it was under Harmon, encouraging a more rotational body release that is designed to produce a longer "flat spot" at the bottom of his swing, a classic key for accuracy and consistency exemplified in the swings of Hogan, Trevino and Moe Norman. Such an action is wider and more "around" than the narrower and more vertical movement that more naturally produced Woods' snapping left leg.

> >

> > The differences between Woods' old move and the new one were made more apparent on Wednesday afternoon at the Tour Championship, where by coincidence he hit practice balls only a few yards away from Adam Scott, who is coached by Harmon and possesses a swing uncannily similar to Woods' old one. That the Harmon-Woods relationship retains a soap-opera allure even among the players and caddies was clear when the sight of Woods arriving on the range and striding in the direction of Harmon caused a discernible lull in surrounding activity. Onlookers sneaked furtive glances at Harmon congratulating a smiling Woods on marriage, then returned to normal business a little too quickly.

> >

> > Once Woods settled in and began banging out balls with the upright-swinging Scott as an easy reference point, it was clear that Woods' plane is flatter and more constant, free of the slight re-route to the inside that is a feature of Scott's swing. "A lot of it is the takeaway and making sure I've got enough width and room coming down," Woods explains. "If I get the takeaway with the club with its true loft on the proper angle, it's cake coming down. When I get it off, then obviously I've got to make compensation with my hands on the way down."

> >

> > Woods is still fighting a tendency -- exacerbated by his compensations for the knee -- of dropping down to his right side on the downswing. It's a tempo-destroying action that makes Woods appear to be swinging too hard, when in fact, he says, the inefficiency slows his release and reduces his clubhead speed. To counteract the accuracy-robbing move -- the most common cause for Woods' miss to the right -- he is working on making his backswing wider and deeper as well as keeping his head high and rotating toward the target on the downswing, similar to the signature move of Annika Sorenstam.

> >

> > Under Haney, Woods is taking noticeably more practice swings, most of them with an exaggerated move designed to ingrain the sensation he is after. They vary, but include the baseball-style swing to produce proper arm rotation, a stretching of the left arm directly away from the target to encourage width on the backswing, an elongated, flatter follow-through designed to resist "flipping up" of the wrists after impact, and a novel "kick-back" of the right foot behind him on the downswing, developed by Woods to counteract his tendency to sink into an overactive right leg.

>

> Thanks. interesting read. I think Butch is a good coach. He seems to have a good easy going demeanor and does not seem to place players in a box and a must swing this way thought. I just think he gets too much credit for players success. It also seems to me that he gets credit for success, when other coaches, it seems the sentiment is, "well the player is really good". Much like I think that Phil Jackson is an overrated basketball coach. He had arguable 3 of the top 5 players of all time. 2 at the same time. Of course he was going to win.

 

Kobe is definitely in the top 5 most overrated players of all time - in any sport.

[QuigleyDU]

Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

[mosesgolf]

The WRX reverse jinx at work again. I love this threads. It gets whoever is in a slump out of their slump 99% of the time.

Can we get one going for Jason Day?

[MK7Golf21]

> @mosesgolf said:

> The WRX reverse jinx at work again. I love this threads. It gets whoever is in a slump out of their slump 99% of the time.

> Can we get one going for Jason Day?

 

Well I mean I saw Cameron on the range at bmw a month ago and it was a stripe show. I don’t know his on course game though

[dlygrisse]

> @Ferguson said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

> > >

> > > I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

> >

> > Lots of big words there pilgram. We be but simple folk round here...

>

>

>

> Methinks I summed it up nicely.

>

>

>

Wait....where is his purse...I mean satchel?

 

 

[musclefront]

> @dlygrisse said:

> > @Ferguson said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

> > > >

> > > > I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

> > >

> > > Lots of big words there pilgram. We be but simple folk round here...

> >

> >

> >

> > Methinks I summed it up nicely.

> >

> >

> >

> Wait....where is his purse...I mean satchel?

>

>

It’s EUROPEAN!!

 

[mcputter]

> @mosesgolf said:

> The WRX reverse jinx at work again. I love this threads. It gets whoever is in a slump out of their slump 99% of the time.

> Can we get one going for Jason Day?

 

The WRX reverse jinx hasn't really worked for Jordan Spieth though.

[grm24]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

 

Nobody. If Champ wins tomorrow most will double down on their previous idiocy.

[Swvehaun]

Can't remember where I read it and haven't looked it up but I remember seeing somewhere last year that it was his short game that was killing him. Scrambling, putting, etc... Although if Foley really did say that about his wedges it's pretty wild... As if he's the first person to ever swing his wedges hard

["THE GREEK"]

I think they heard you guys talking!!!

[MK7Golf21]

> @dlygrisse said:

> > @Ferguson said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

> > > >

> > > > I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

> > >

> > > Lots of big words there pilgram. We be but simple folk round here...

> >

> >

> >

> > Methinks I summed it up nicely.

> >

> >

> >

> Wait....where is his purse...I mean satchel?

>

>

 

iPhones can do high speed video now, no more camera

[Holy Moses]

> @Swvehaun said:

> Can't remember where I read it and haven't looked it up but I remember seeing somewhere last year that it was his short game that was killing him. Scrambling, putting, etc... Although if Foley really did say that about his wedges it's pretty wild... As if he's the first person to ever swing his wedges hard

 

Everything but driving went awry for Champ last year after his victory. He hit a lot of greens and had a good birdie percentage, but his approach, short game, and strokes gained putting stats were all terrible overall. At the Sanderson last year, I thought he had a great week with his short game and putting. Will be interesting to see his stats this week. Ping going for three in a row.

[bladehunter]

> @mcputter said:

> > @mosesgolf said:

> > The WRX reverse jinx at work again. I love this threads. It gets whoever is in a slump out of their slump 99% of the time.

> > Can we get one going for Jason Day?

>

> The WRX reverse jinx hasn't really worked for Jordan Spieth though.

 

Yet. When he gets to 19 majors , the true power of that thread will be realized.

 

( a joke ).

[Catty]

Run mate. This bloke is going to take you to 0 more wins, he made that putt? Damn this guys coach is a genius.

[LICC]

Happy to see Champ win. I met him last year at the RSM and he seems like a great guy. Very fan friendly. Would love to see him get to top level status.

[puttfordoux]

Yes. Champ can only win tournaments whose name starts with 'S'.

[DON SVO]

> @puttfordoux said:

> Yes. Champ can only win tournaments whose name starts with 'S'.

 

Since he’s qualified, I can’t wait to see him at the Shmashters in April.

[farmer]

Not a bad gig, show up once a year, win a tournament and a million+ dollars. The rest of the time, work on your game and play a lot of nice courses.

[Man_O_War]

> @farmer said:

> Not a bad gig, show up once a year, win a tournament and a million+ dollars. The rest of the time, work on your game and play a lot of nice courses.

 

369 yard drive into the breeze on 18. he showed up

[mukster]

Good on Champ for the win.

[dalehead]

Picked a bad time to ask this question.

[grm24]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

 


 

[EllaLemond]

cool

[BNGL]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> Soooo. If champ wins tomorrow who is going to apologize? Or walk back anything they said?

 

 

Probably no one. This one is almost as good as @dropkicked hypothesizing that Brooks would MC at this years PGA Championship.

 

[LICC]

> @dalehead said:

> Picked a bad time to ask this question.

 

Given the result it seems like it was the perfect time to ask the question.