Reeds scrape away

[davep043]

To be fair, Brooks didn't bring it up, he was asked about Reed. Brooks bases his opinion of Reed on his own perception that Reed must have felt the sand. If you accept that much, that Reed knew he had moved sand from the area behind the ball, then the logical conclusion is that Reed tried avoid the penalty, tried to cheat. I'm still not 100% convinced that he knew that he'd moved anything, and if he didn't know, then he didn't try to cover anything up.

[Holy Moses]

This is about calling a penalty on yourself. The rules of the road say you don’t have to flag down a cop if you speed. You sped because you were distracted; I don’t think Reed’s issues are being distracted. But the rules of golf say you need to call a penalty on yourself if you commit an infraction. Reed keeps on cheating because he never got caught until the Hero. I give him credit for not talking about the Hero infraction. It’s his defenders that are most annoying.

[manxytag]

if he is seen cheating again it will be the end of his career, we hope.

[bladehunter]

That literally makes no sense to me. Gary woodland testified that Reed found out in the trailer at the scorers table. So how can he call it on himself if he doesn’t know it happened ? Your premise is based on him knowing.

[marmaduk]

I started off neutral to Reed but the more people hate and lambast him the more I pull for him. When Reed won the WGC I had a good laugh thinking of all the bulging forehead veins in this thread

It was clear that he broke the rules when scraping the sand but the blame should be put on the officials for not taking a stance and DQ’ing him. I can expand on my reasoning but I think I’ll just laugh and close this thread for good.

[TreyWingbat]

I know our local city is gearing up for construction season, so I asked them who the main contractors are this year bidding for road works, and surprisingly they mentioned Patrick Reed and his excavator skills.

We'll see if he gets any contracts.

[Holy Moses]

Ha. He’s great for golf minus the cheating.

[Holy Moses]

My premise is that Reed knew all along that he was cheating because he had done this very thing before and he could feel his club scraping against the sand to improve his lie. He didn’t need someone in the scoring tent to tell him he was committing an infraction because he knew and just doesn’t care.

[Forged4ever]

Excellent point(s) & post RX??!!

 

The funny thing is that any jerk-*ff can google “narcissist,” though apparently this host didn’t even bother to do that as he would’ve seen that there is no clinical diagnosis for the words “narcissist” or “narcissism.,” only amateur chirping and scribbling by google “gurus,” and I don’t give a sh*t how many supposed letters follow their names.

 

If you doubt me, speak to any legitimate PhD/MD and they will say the same thing....

 

ANYONE that has achieved ANY modicum of success in this world, regardless of the activity, profession, scope or arena, has exhibited myriad “narcissistic” traits(of the 9 cited by the American Psychiatric Association for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which for you numbnuts is totally different than just blanket using the word as a noun or adjective) in their journey to excellence and achievement.

 

This was decades before all the banter about “spectrums,” though she(yea, my shrink was a female, lol. I tend to be more open to listening to a female in front of me than a male??) said to use a “1-10 scale,” with 4-6 being “normal,” 7-8 and occasionally 9 being “normal” in a “competitive environment,” with that depending again on the activity/competition and competitors.

 

The problems arise when aggression and narcissistic behavior run at 7-10 in an everyday non-competitive environment. Then, ya got anything from serial killer Andrew Cunanan to an obviously lesser dangerous though no less self-destructive individual, Antonio Brown.

 

I was told a long time ago by a therapist(yea, court mandated anger management?) that aggression is just like narcissism in that to achieve ANY level of success in most fields/activities, healthy amounts of both were needed, the levels varying and depending on the activity(I was Playing college football) and the level of the competition.

 

What is a “healthy” amount you might ask?

 

Well, as far as aggression, on the field in competition, if I drew an “unsportsmanlike” penalty flag for my play, this could be deemed as an “inappropriate” level of aggression, and if I wanted to succeed or not have my teammates get uber p!ssed at me or my coaches yank me off of the field, I would dial it back appropriately and immediately.

 

Same with my behavior off of the football field(or anyone in any arena). If my response to a social situation was deemed inappropriate or “excessive,” as it was, then I, ie the individual, would face professional(job termination), social(group ostracization) or as was the case in my situation(I more or less intervened in a situation, knocked out and then mopped the floor with a bully in a bar. The court ruled that while the knockout was ok, as it a legitimate response, self-defense and “intervention,” the mopping of the floor and subsequent 3 broken ribs were “inappropriate and excessive”), legal ramifications.

 

“Policing” and regulating “narcissism” is much the same, be it in the social, professional or athletic arenas.

 

Our peers(teammates and competitors), oversight(referees & rules officials) & sports, professional and societal governing/legal bodies do a fine job of determining what is acceptable versus unacceptable behavior.

 

NOTE TO MORONS?: media/press, fans and/or forum members ARE NOT IN THIS GROUP??

 

Antonio Brown happens to be the current poster-child for what is a diagnosis, Narcissistic Personality Disorder(NPD) run amok, as he has been ostracized athletically, professionally, socially and legally for his behavior.

 

For me, the light bulb went on with my aggression when I looked at it like a behavior controlled by a “light switch.” which is how I’ve always handled my personality, of which I have always had four distinct personalities, ie., competitive, professional, social and finally that with which I displayed with close friends and Loved Ones.

 

Which one was the “real” me???

 

Every single one of em, haha

 

It just depended/depends where you fit into MY world, lolol

 

When I was in a certain situation, say exiting a locker room and running onto a football field, then I hit “the switch,” and turned up the behavior barometer accordingly, and conversely, when I exited that locker room to meet my GF, family & friends, I dialed it back, turned it “off,” locking it away until it was needed in the future, and my aggression and narcissism would rise and fall accordingly, and 95% of the time, appropriately. It was that other 5% that I had to work on, improve on and control, which I did!

 

I was not close to a world class athlete however EVERY WORLD-CLASS ATHLETE displays most if not all of the nine “official” criteria for NPD at certain times in pursuit of their ultimate professional goal(s), it just comes down to can they hit this “switch,” basically turning that behavior off as quickly and easily as one turns off a light switch, and conduct themselves in a socially/professionally appropriate manner, whether it be with peers, competitors and/or fans.

 

Tiger, Jack & Michael are perfect examples!!

 

As I have stated elsewhere, I have been with Patrick(and Justine) in social situations away from the game, competition, competitors & the press and he’s a good guy, handles himself perfectly fine and does not display the personality that one sees on the course or in the press when he’s surrounded by friend, family and Loved Ones.

Is he the “perfect” guy??

 

C’mon, don’t be a d*ck, lol

 

Who amongst us is??

 

We are all a product of our childhood experiences and the experiences from our teens into early adulthood and some process and handle these better than others. Like many in Patrick’s world, whether it be Tiger, Michael, Michelle Wei or Tom Brady, trust is an issue cuz so many want so much and no matter where these individuals turn, someone has their hand out and if the athlete/celebrity does not respond as the person that wants something deems appropriate, from an autograph to a quote or interview, to $1000 from a guy that he hasn’t seen since HS(this is an actual scenario?) to 5 minutes for a business proposition, then the athlete/celebrity is automatically labeled as an “*sshole” or the current label du jour is a “narcissist,” lol.

 

However, to label an individual as a “narcissist” for their actions or behavior in their athletic/professional arena, especially if one has NEVER competed there, forget competed at their level, which for the denser amongst you, Patrick is a World-Class Player, are the labels, chirpings and scribblings of a fool and total jerk-*ff.

 

Apologies for the novel however I just can’t stomach when media types, the vast vast vast majority of whom have never even played sh*t and never ever ever competed in sh*t, and if they did they got their *ss handed to em, well done and toasted, yet they sit there and criticize successful world-class athletes and individuals that they have never spent time with away from the sport/arena, have never ever “been there done that,” even if they didn’t ultimately succeed, ie., an Elite Am that chases “the dream,” turns Pro, Plays myriad tournaments and tours, yet never gets to “the Show,” however he/she KNOWS the dedication, focus, discipline and ultimately performance level that it takes to get there, where as you and I don’t know sh*t!!!

 

It’s simple really....

 

One does not have to have succeeded to have a legitimate opinion!!

 

They just have had to have competed against those that have?

 

One thing that I’ve said elsewhere and you can take it to the bank and that is that Cap is back, he’s Swingin well, making some putts and his confidence is back, so, love him or loathe him, deal with him, cuz he’s gonna be there in September!

 

Narcissistic personality and all???

 

As far as Brooksy’s comments, whether he was asked, baited or prodded, he could’ve said “no comment.”

 

I’m from the school that if I’ve gotta beef with you, I’m telling you belly to belly in the locker room, and even though we didn’t have social media back in the day, I, nor my teammates would have EVER said something publicly either to the media or the fans, cuz what happened on the field stayed there or in the locker room. The Player that “broke” that rule would have paid dearly, more so than whomever he was commenting on publicly. Bottom line, It NEVER left the locker room.

 

Different days, different times and different gene pool? ?‍♂️

 

Again, apologies for the novel, though for those of ya that aren’t familiar with me or my pontificating posting style, follow the lead of those that are and just ignore me, as I exit stage right rather quickly?

 

Stay Well my Friends?

RP

[Pepperturbo]

What about all the times you drove faster than the speed limit or you did something in golf that actually broke a rule? Speeding can cause an accident that may even kill people, etc. Perspective please. Proposing events that may or may not have happened and pointing the finger as if they did... is not wise or healthy way to look at your surroundings or what others do with their lives.

[bladehunter]

So woodland is lying ? Gary clearly says that slugger informed Reed at the table and he was surprised and then watched the video. Then wasn’t defensive or anything. That doesn’t seem like someone who knew .

[tbowles411]

At some point I think we need to admit to ourselves this bias against Reed was already there. This is just "confirmation" or fuel for the fire now; basically more piling on. His start on the PGA Tour wasn't exactly controversy free. The "Top 5" comment mushroomed into something ugly and everything people think of him make it feel like everything that comes his way is justified. It may be, or may not be. I've just come to accept now that whatever this guy does, will be seen as negative in someway by the pitch fork crowd. I do wish he would have just said, "Yeah, I F'd up," but he didn't. He probably figured that he would be the bad guy regardless so screw it. That stuff messes with your mind eventually so you protect yourself so you don't go crazy.

[Pepperturbo]

Whether BK brought it up or not, what he said after the fact was uncalled for. I get it, BK applied his own perception of the sand situation then assumed PR was guilty, because BK wants to believe he'd know if he moved sand. Mark my words, what goes around comes around for BK and his detractors.

I don't buy it. Moving a slight amount of sand with the trailing edge of a heavy sand wedge head and X-Stiff shaft can easily happen to anyone if the head gets too close to the sand. If it weren't for the nearby TV camera zooming in so the world could see the slight amount of sand move, NOBODY would have been the wiser. There is NO way PR could actually cover up cheating if, in fact, that was his intent, which I don't believe. Mind you, the sand moved with the trailing edge of his wedge, so there was a rules infraction, which he took like a man.

As far as I am concerned this has been blown way out of proportion and exacerbated by bias towards a man that NOBODY, least on this site actually knows.

 

[Dr. Block]

The honor level expected of a golfer to fall on their own sword at the slightest hint of impropriety sort of goes against our natural instincts of self preservation as human beings. To expect Reed to behave like Bobby Jones over this is asking a lot of a millennial in modern times. Why wouldn't he take the angle he's taken; it's not like it's unusual behavior for a professional in any sport, field, or political arena in the world we live in today. Besides that, he took his penalty like a man, and I'm sure he would have also taken a DQ if that was the outcome.

The fact that he can block out the three ring circus that has sprung up from this and play the kind of golf he has is amazing to me. He'll keep on winning, and all of this will be forgotten in time. Look at Vijay Singh, he's certainly not judged by his actions regarding bending the rules a bit. And he did far worse then Patrick has done.

 

 

[Forged4ever]

@tbowles411 last two sentences above me NAILED IT‼️

I have no idea when this mindset tool hold with Patrick, though for self-preservation, it’s there, it’s at the forefront of his psyche and he’s good with it, as are those that he cares about in his life!!

The rest of us????

???, you guys that know me know what I wanna say here however the switch is “off,” so I’ll let ya fill in the blank on his thoughts about the rest of us??

I hope that you’re well Brother and have a great season⛳️?
RP

[davep043]

If BK believes that he (BK) would have known that he'd moved sand, and believes that Reed would know the same, his eventually judgement about "cheating" is logical. I applaud BK's comments in one way, he claims that he's going to be enforcing the rules on his playing partners more often, he feels like he's earned the right to speak up more. If everyone felt this way about enforcing the rules, and acted on it, the Tour would be better off. We'll see if BK backs up his words.

"It goes on a little bit more than people think,” he said, before adding: "I’ve been guilty of it. I haven’t opened my mouth. But now if I saw it, just because of where I’m at in the game, the stature that I have, I would definitely say something.”

I agree completely with your evaluation, and have said much the same thing. The sand was dry and loose, and piled in a little ridge at the back end of a moderately deep footprint. The depth of the print is an indication of how loose the sand was originally, and it only got looser when it was displaced. The sand that moved was directly under the wedge, the movement was invisible, and because the sand was dry, there was probably no noticeable color variation after the "scrapes". The sand was pretty dang loose, easy to move, so its absolutely possible that it wasn't felt through the club. I simply don't know what Reed felt, nobody does, but its completely possible that he didn't notice it. He moved it, it was an infraction, and was appropriately penalized.

For anyone who says "I'm certain he's cheated in the past, so I guarantee he was cheating this time", I can't say you're wrong, but I do believe you're not looking at this specific instance fairly.

[tbowles411]

Hey Brother! Good to see you still on here! I hope you're well and hit them straight!

[bscinstnct]

You know what people think? What they see. A guy took 2 "practice" swings, with each one moving sand, and creating a new lie with a much better path to the ball. Before the sand is moved, the ball has a hood of sand behind it. Presto, 2 practice swings later, enough sand is moved and you can see the whole ball.

 

 

 

"At the 1925 U.S. Open, Bobby Jones moved his ball slightly while setting up for a shot. No one saw it, but Jones was adamant that the ball had moved and assessed himself a one-stroke penalty, costing him the win, as he went on to lose in a playoff. Praised for his classy move, Jones quipped, “You might as well praise me for not robbing banks.”

[Forged4ever]

Your posts in this thread are excellent and I agree with everything though I wish that instead of fanning the flames? of idiots, morons and jerk-*ffs from the press to fans and forum members worldwide, ole Brooksy would’ve approached Patrick belly to belly, in the locker room, not in some passive aggressive manner on a social media venue.

 

A simple “no comment” would’ve done the trick~

 

If Brooksy wanted to speak about himself, his observations and his subsequent actions and reactions, Great!!

 

Tweet away?

 

I applaud his public self-flagulation & analysis!!

 

He should’ve left it at that?

 

Regardless, great posts!!

 

90% of the time I agree with your views?

 

H£ll, that’s more than with Madison??

 

Have a great season⛳️?

RP

[Pepperturbo]

I am being as fair as I can be regarding Reed's actions and BK's voice on the matter. I will fight and die for freedom of speech, so he's welcome to his opinion. I just don't have to agree or accept that it's appropriate. BK overstepped because he put himself in a like situation and attributed his touch to PR's touch. Being clinically trained, NO TWO people have the same degree of touch or feel even on tour. Better yet, it's like me attributing how I react and feel a given pressure situation and expecting you to react and feel the same, and if you don't assume you're guilty of X because I know better. Have to agree to disagree. Have a great day though.

[bladehunter]

Oh absolutely. I recall clearly the hate that the top 5 comments brought here. The claims that some would leave the country if Reed won the masters. “ anybody but Reed “ was the chant.

[Pepperturbo]

Thanks for the vid. I enlarged it. That doesn't look like a normal tour bunker but a waste area. It's pathetic looking, unraked, uneven in many areas, even shows leftover footprints. In Reeds defensive it's not unreasonable to think it was a waste area as opposed to a normal well-kept bunker.

[8602081]

My Opinion:

Woodland did not lie.. Patrick lied, when he said that the didn't know.. He didn't scrape.. he scooped.. That amount of sand would definitely be noticeable..

Either way, Congrats to Patrick for winning without cheating.. last week..

 

 

[Dpavs]

It was a waste area as I recall, but other than under special circumstances you cannot improve you lie anywhere on the course, right?

[Dpavs]

I'm curious, has any tour player actually come to Patrick's defense and said that it is reasonable to assume that Patrick might not have known he moved the sand? I don't recall seeing such a statement. Has anyone else?

[bladehunter]

And there’s no problem with that. You believe what you believe based on what you see. Same as I do. Neither of us claiming to “ know “ anything. That’s my only gripe. People that “ know “ things that cannot be known.

[Shilgy]

Yes, it is a waste area. Which still means you can move loose impediments. But, as I am sure you know, sand is not a loose impediment except on the putting green.

[Ferguson]

Approaching 1000 posts?????

 

 

Never see a thread this long about Ben Crenshaw or Tom Kite.

They played the rules.

[Shilgy]

Perception is everything isn’t it. His top5 comments were where he perceived himself to be. He was 23 years old and had won 3 times in just 7 months. Did people think he should just be humble and not be confident in his own abilities? Totally agree with you here.https://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/confident-reed-im-top-5-player-world

[bladehunter]

And when it’s around Matt Kuchars ball. ?