Callaway Bertha B21 line

[radiman]

On 8/20/2020 at 8:55 AM, caloge said:

 

I don't have a horse in this race, i just always found it funny that Tmag caught so much flack for their release cycle when callaway's is the same. Simply saying that these clubs sit alonside the maverick line doesnt change how similar they are to the maverick max offerings. This isnt a segment i am looking at, but im sure teh mav max line was probably very good, and buyers shouldnt have any remorse about it. My point was simply that Callaway's marketing jargon has become this rather funny way of dancing around the fact that they release 1.5+ full lines of woods every year. 

 

That's it for me. I have to check toyota's site now to see what all this buzz about the new corolla is all about. 

There are some significant differences in offset and club length.  Lofts are different too.  But, not a huge amount.

 

 

Edit: Just realized that you very well were likely referring to the driver lineup.  Having not seen the B21 driver in hand, I cannot comment on what the differences are.  One is the head shape for sure as easily deciphered by looking at pictures.  From what I have heard, the B21 also has a more closed face and draw bias.  The slice killer as they say.  But, cannot say for sure since I have not seen it in person.

Edited September 11, 2020 by radiman

[cmatthews77]

23 hours ago, Hougz79 said:

I really do think there is a place in the Callaway lineup for these clubs.  I'm totally fine with a predictable update cycle.  I used to love Titleist's 2 year model.  I used to hate TMs "3 drivers a summer model".  I have recently become very comfortable in that generally most manufacturers come out with a new product every year.  It's ok to have some brand overlap if it is "predictable".  A good example is Mizuno's MP/JPX cycle.  MP one year, JPX the next.  There could be argued a bit of overlap between some MP lines and the JPX Tour line.  But those that like it are comfortable with it.  

 

Callaway is less transparent on their release cycle though, and I can see how some folks are getting miffed at this.  I believe they are in a cycle of an "adjustable" and "non adjustable" cycle.  Epic (adjustable), Rogue (non-adjustable), Epic Flash (adjustable), Mavrik (Non)...etc.  But dropping this (B21 line) 3/4 through a season is a bit odd.  I agree it's probably a niche product, and very effective for the target audience they are aiming for.  I do however, feel bad for if those in that target market who purchased a MAV Max thinking that was the latest and greatest that year.  

 

I think the B21 line definitely has a place.  Time will tell if if will be predictably refreshed.  If it's an every other year thing...fine.  But if this was a one off, it would have been most beneficial for the consumer if it released at the same time as MAV.  I hope it works for those it's marketed to and develops into a predictable update cycle.

 

This is VERY well articulated.  If you look at my signature its clear I'm no "hater" of Callaway products, but this is very well said.  You are correct that those of us that follow Cally closely know their woods and irons had been on predictable releases (for the most part).  Epic Flash replaced Epic (but don't forget that was Great Big Bertha Epic so they were using the 'Big Bertha' naming with that one) and Mavrik replaced Rogue (non-adjustable).  If you like bonded hosel fairways you're a Rogue/Mavrik player and if you like adjustable you're an Epic player.  Apex was also on an approximate 2 year release cycle and then X Forged was sort of every once in a while (went from '09 to '13 then '13 to '18)

 

But my problem with this B21 release is that it's like they tried to have something for EVERYONE in the Mavrik line.  There's 3 driver models-- a sub zero, a standard a a "Max". Same with irons- pro, regular and "Max" forgiveness.  If we are honestly trying to create different categories for Mavrik Max vs Big Bertha B21 that is a BIG REACH!! They're both huge chunky irons.  If there wasn't a Mavrik Max then maybe I'd understand this better but there is.  And as a consumer if you just were fit and purchased Mavrik Max driver or irons I'd be frustrated that they roll this out late in the season.  Some people purchase golf equipment and never look at marketing again so they're blind or don't care.  And then there is us that live on these forums as junkies.  It's if Callaway tries to have its cake and eat it too.  Appeal to golf junkies and release stuff with no concern for those of us that like to follow all the new releases.  That's fine but if you do that then make the Big Bertha B21 a Dicks Sporting Goods line at a different price point (which to me is what this looks like).  Don't try to claim its different enough to sit right along side with the other game improvement driver you just released.  If it's truly so "revolutionary anti-slice" just save it and release it for whatever next year's line that will replace Mavrik.

 

The previous Big Bertha product was game improvement but tried to have sort of a "premium" look and feel to it.  I thought it looked really nice for a big iron.  It was also pretty expensive.  But since they also shoved the Epic iron line at us there really wasn't any room for more super expensive clubs.  Not to mention the Apex line is already a "premium".  It's just too much. 

 

It's like internally their marketing department doesn't know what to do.  Do we bring "new" marketable stuff out (Epic, Rogue, Mavrik) and then a few months later they're like "wait, we've got to do something with Big Bertha, Apex, X Forged, etc.).  Just pick something and use it.  For the better players- bring out your stuff together more predictably (like the Mizuno example) with consistent naming and finishes so we can test and create combo sets.

Edited September 11, 2020 by cmatthews77

[BirdieBob]

 

[lefty1978]

Played 18 holes this morning in the light rain. Best driving day I've had in a long time. I hit the driver on 10 of the 18 holes (5 par 3's and a few holes not driver holes), I did not lose one ball to the left (I'm LH).

 

Every drive was straight or slight draw side. My only bad miss was my fault, I got quick and toe hit a low spin hook into other fairway. Not the clubs fault. I played with the standard stock RCH stiff 65g shaft, I was hitting this shaft better than my Speeder 661 so I went with it.

 

Guys, do yourself a favor and demo this driver, don't get caught up in the "I don't want to hit a game improvement driver" mentality. Thats stupid. I see so many guys struggle to get off the tee, I know as a shorter hitter myself, good drives are crucial to lower scores.

Edited September 12, 2020 by lefty1978

[tigercolt77]

5 hours ago, BirdieBob said:

 

Very interesting indeed, would love to see him compare it with the same shaft in a Mavrik Max 9 degree head.

[ewe8523]

I’d like to see a video of an average golfer who slices hit this. The videos of better players hitting it don’t do much to validate the tech claims.

[regiwstruk]

This driver is completely awesome. I went from playing an Xflex for nearly 20 years to this stock 65 S just because of Newton's review. I can't explain why it is working but the ball flight is ideal, the spin is just right, and the feel is about perfect. Remarkable.

[dmeeksDC]

Had an in-hand look at it today. I think Callaway did a nice job. This driver could be the ticket for many golfers. A bit of a Fusion-esque shape but better, more refined. Shape looks good. Overall very appealing. Has a look that says, ‘Smash me.’ 

[ewe8523]

I had a chance to hit the B21 driver today at lunch and wasn’t impressed. I fit into the target demographic. I am a 14 handicap, shoot in the mid 80s primarily using a utility iron off the tee, and my driver miss is a slice. To me, the B21 looks the same as I remember the Fusion at address, and also felt the same. The B21 was not straight for me and I actually was missing more right with slices than I normally would with my Cobra F7.

 

I have also included some more pics from the store.

[Cruisin1966]

Maybe the shaft wasn't "correct" for you

[tbowles411]

15 minutes ago, Cruisin1966 said:

Maybe the shaft wasn't "correct" for you

Happens a lot.  Stock doesn't work for everyone.

[lefty1978]

Keep in mind, its not anti slice in that you cannot slice it. A sever out to in cutting across the ball will cause a slice, Its not a magic wand. I found it difficult to slice unless I really tried to. Most times it wants to go straight. I have played 3 rounds so far with the B21 and only lost 1 ball out to the left in 30 or so on course drives (LH) which is amazing for me. Also this driver is the most forgiving heel side driver I have ever hit, not the best of the toe side. You want to avoid the toe with this one.

[livigolfs]

Has anybody laid eyes on the cavity back wedge?

[QuigleyDU]

28 minutes ago, livigolfs said:

Has anybody laid eyes on the cavity back wedge?

Yes sir. Honestly. Everyone has seen it. They just don’t know it yet...

[Tiptx1122]

I also had a chance to hit it and after driving over an hour, stiff and not stretch out the tee was too short I was not overly impressed. I was more impressed with my swing speed being 97 mph as I thought it was maybe 89-92. Anyhow I didn't leave with one as I really have been hitting my SIM pretty well but I still gelt like I needed something else to help my accuracy. 

 

I decided 4 days after launch to get a 10.5 stiff as I just couldn't resist and the out of 5 Golf Glaxy stores only 1 had 2 10.5* stiff so I made sure it grab one. This may not be the best time to buy a driver as winter will be here soon but I will wait and give a fair chance as it does have the looks like it saying smash me. I did like how well it felt as I will need to get over the stretched out back. 

[livigolfs]

52 minutes ago, QuigleyDU said:

Yes sir. Honestly. Everyone has seen it. They just don’t know it yet...

Gotcha I’ve seen it now

[QuigleyDU]

1 minute ago, livigolfs said:

Gotcha I’ve seen it now

I know you have.. you might still not realize it yet though..

[juggernaut0629]

This is by far the straightest, & easiest to launch driver I've ever hit. Its not geared towards me, but it's a very forgiving driver. I can work the ball right to left & left to right as I need. It's a very easy driver to hit a draw with. Almost too easy cuz a "normal" draw swing with this can turn into a monster hook. It can be faded as well, but it's seriously hard to fade. My normal swing is a fade. That said, I mean I really have to put a nasty swing on it to fade the ball. But it's a smooth fade coming from a nasty slice swing. This driver Will keep many golfers in play. A co-worker hit mine. He's a power player (120mph SS) who's been hitting big power fades of late with his driver. (ping G). Everything he hits with his driver is going right. He hit the BB21 with no change to his swing & it resulted in a dead straight ball.  I'm in no way saying this club will cure everybody. & yes I agree the right shaft matters. But Everything I have seen from this club is laser straight to draw to hook. It takes the right side out of the course. Hit the center of the face & it's as long as my Ping G410LST. Low on the face contact, & there's nothing special in distance. But still a straight ball flight. It's not magic, or a cure for slicing, but it will help many golfers with a proper fitting shaft. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by juggernaut0629

[Jungleland]

11 hours ago, QuigleyDU said:

I know you have.. you might still not realize it yet though..

Looks like an updated Sure out with Mac Daddy grooves

[QuigleyDU]

34 minutes ago, Jungleland said:

Looks like an updated Sure out with Mac Daddy grooves

It is almost an exact copy of the cleveland CBX wedge. 

[livigolfs]

Cbx looks better imo but I haven’t seen in person

[Tiptx1122]

Well went to the range and after a good 20 plus balls I never it 1 bad shot or did I hit a slice. Toe shots may have lost 8-10 yds but they ended up being gentle fades and in the fairway. Some of the longest shots went straight as an arrow and the few draws I hit were just as long, nothing hooked on me. This is about the easiest driver I've ever hit. Only 1 shot went higher than normal but Wow it held a straight line right down the middle of the fairwayI'm not sure if it's as long as my SIM but it's way more forgiving and real close to being as long if not equal. Upon impact the ball acts as if it was fired out of a cannon. 

 

Callaway drivers have been a hit or miss for me some I really liked and other I couldn't stand. I was afraid this was going to be one of therm I couldn't stand because of the looks. I can easily get used to the looks now as I just remember an older Titleist driver that had a triangular head and I hated it. There was one other driver I couldn't stand the looks was the old square headed drivers by Callaway and Nike. Times have changed and Callaway most definitely got this one right as this does what it say's, believe the Hype. This baby flat out performs as this driver may not be for everyone but for the majority of us you will be very impressed

[TINGRAM]

To you guys that bought this club. What loft seems best? Also what shaft did you guys go with? Stock?

[Tiptx1122]

I bought the 10.5 stiff stock 55 RCH. I can only imagine what a purple Oban Kiyoshi shaft would do as I had one in my 816 DBD a few years ago and that was a bomber. Not sure why the gravity core didn't last longer.

[juggernaut0629]

58 minutes ago, TINGRAM said:

To you guys that bought this club. What loft seems best? Also what shaft did you guys go with? Stock?

I bought the 9* an upgraded to the project x t1100 white evenflow stiff. It's a great combo. I lofted down 1* and its hitting perfect mid trajectory bullets. I've got mine up on the BST. The only reason why is that I can Hit any shot I want with My G410LST. Where with the BB21 in order Hit a small cut shot, I have put a big slice swing on it. I Dont want to have to swing like that for a soft butter cut. And when hitting draws, if not careful, could turn into hooks real quick. However, should I change my mind, which I may. I might just keep it & just play straight ball instead working the ball left right, right left. Straight is what this driver wants do. It's very hard to hit this club to the right side. Should I keep the bb21, I be selling the g410 LST. Which I never thought I'd say. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by juggernaut0629

[lefty1978]

1 hour ago, TINGRAM said:

To you guys that bought this club. What loft seems best? Also what shaft did you guys go with? Stock?

I got the 10.5° with stock RCH. I already have a bunch of shafts that I own, but I've been playing the RCH until I can get on a launch monitor. I have been playing at stock 10.5, not going to mess with anything at the moment as I am hitting it long and straight.

Edited September 15, 2020 by lefty1978

[TINGRAM]

 

35 minutes ago, lefty1978 said:

I got the 10.5° with stock RCH. I already have a bunch of shafts that I own, but I've been playing the RCH until I can get on a launch monitor. I have been playing at stock 10.5, not going to mess with anything at the moment as I am hitting it long and straight.

Did you get the 65 stiff shaft? Or RCH 55 stiff

Edited September 15, 2020 by TINGRAM

[lefty1978]

43 minutes ago, TINGRAM said:

 

Did you get the 65 stiff shaft? Or RCH 55 stiff

65s

[TINGRAM]

Thanks guys for the reply here. I'm left handed tough to do a bunch of demos of this club. I guess the only question is loft. I just want a boring ball flight.... So probably going with 9° . Club sounds like a game changer for a 56 year old man.

[dawesome]

On 9/12/2020 at 2:00 AM, radiman said:

There are some significant differences in offset and club length.  Lofts are different too.  But, not a huge amount.

 

 

Edit: Just realized that you very well were likely referring to the driver lineup.  Having not seen the B21 driver in hand, I cannot comment on what the differences are.  One is the head shape for sure as easily deciphered by looking at pictures.  From what I have heard, the B21 also has a more closed face and draw bias.  The slice killer as they say.  But, cannot say for sure since I have not seen it in person.

I always thought the higher the number in offset means more offset which makes BB21 irons have less offset than mavrik max. Have I been wrong?