Try to tell me it’s not ego

[Pepperturbo]

The OP is right.  And so are those that say nobody asks them what club they hit.  It's about the company each of us keeps and where we might be playing.   If I played with 3 other guys my age, nobody asks.  If all 4 guys are playing at the same level, nobody asks.  IMO - it has a lot to do with playing in strange company and challenging courses.

 

When someone has a competitive streak and watches a great shot he instinctively compares that shot to his ability or distance, and many ask "what is that you just hit."  They have different reasons for asking.  Whether Golfwrx people admit to it, many people instinctively compare club yardages to other golfer.  What they don't do is compare ball striking skills or ask what loft is that club you just hit.  I suspect most people are oblivious to their club specs or that the guy hitting next has irons jacked 2-4*.  

 

I hear that question surprisingly often after hitting a long iron or 2i, especially when others hit hybrid replacement, woods even driver and my ball ends up where I intended and maybe near their ball.  The other factor is I play a lot of challenging courses, so my golf is played with many 15yrs-40yrs my junior.  They don't expect me to play better and or hit the ball as far or further than they do.  So, when I hit 2i 230yds down the middle the club gets their attention, not my ball striking. 

 

 

 

 

[chippa13]

Could someone let me know if Pepper makes a post without some kind of brag in it? 

[Pepperturbo]

1 minute ago, chippa13 said:

Could someone let me know if Pepper makes a post without some kind of brag in it? 

Could someone tell me why the hell anyone would actually care or why you can't determine the difference between bragging and situation examples that support the topic.  Don't bother... lol Oh, and thanks.  It's fun for me to watch kiddy's like you regress.

[chippa13]

🥱

[Aviador Naval]

Harumph for the ‘loft is loft’ team and the fact some guys with little kickstand syndrome delight in distance.

 

Regarding asking what one hit, unless you play on an utterly flat course, in temps between 75-85, and in perfectly calm conditions, asking what somebody they hit makes good sense at times.  The key is how you phrase the question or answer.

 

Question on a substantially down slope par 3 when ball goes long:  “Sounded flush - how far did you expect that ball to fly?”

 

Answer to what club did you hit into a gusting wind at 170yds that ended up pin high:  “I played my 180 club but missed a little toward the toe.  I think 175 is a good number”

[hunterdog]

On 1/27/2021 at 11:30 PM, FlyingLaw1 said:

I really wish I could buy a set of irons that had the loft stamped on the bottom instead of the iron #. 

... and let me hit 6 irons 200+ yards.

[pinestreetgolf]

5 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I get what you’re trying to say now.  But.  It just happens that he mavrik line is honest.  The 3 is 15. And the 13 is listed at 3+.   
 

so yes. Some “ 3 woods “ are lying too.  

 

None of them are lying.  There is no universal definition for a 3 wood.  There is no universal definition for a 5 iron.  That is the point.  The M2 "three woods" were 16.5*.  I knew when I saw one of those that the poser carrying it needed more loft to elevate their wood due to a lack of speed but were tricked into buying that 3 wood by marketing gimmicks.  How far do you hit a real 15* 3 wood jerkface? With the 45 gram graphite shaft and the too-much-loft 3 wood.  Nice carry, too bad its FAKE!!!!!!!!!  I may hit ground balls but at least I'm hitting a real 3 wood.

 

Do you see how silly it sounds when people criticize iron loft that works for some people?  I play "fake" iron distances and you play a "fake" 3 wood.  So what.  Neither are fake, both are real, and arguing against strong lofts you need to also be arguing against about a hundred other things (like, for example, how a D grind is just an easier M grind for people who chop wood instead of release the club... isn't that INFURIATING?!)

Edited January 30, 2021 by pinestreetgolf

[Titleist_PT23]

29 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

None of them are lying.  There is no universal definition for a 3 wood.  There is no universal definition for a 5 iron.  That is the point.  The M2 "three woods" were 16.5*.  I knew when I saw one of those that the poser carrying it needed more loft to elevate their wood due to a lack of speed but were tricked into buying that 3 wood by marketing gimmicks.  How far do you hit a real 15* 3 wood jerkface? With the 45 gram graphite shaft and the too-much-loft 3 wood.  Nice carry, too bad its FAKE!!!!!!!!!  I may hit ground balls but at least I'm hitting a real 3 wood.

 

Do you see how silly it sounds when people criticize iron loft that works for some people?  I play "fake" iron distances and you play a "fake" 3 wood.  So what.  Neither are fake, both are real, and arguing against strong lofts you need to also be arguing against about a hundred other things (like, for example, how a D grind is just an easier M grind for people who chop wood instead of release the club... isn't that INFURIATING?!)

The Taylormade Pittsburgh Persimmon 3-wood was 17 degrees.  The 4-wood was 20 degrees and the 5-wood was 23 degrees (7-wood was 27.5 degrees!).

 

Why no fuss with woods from everyone else? 

 

Either there is no standard and it really doesn't matter.  Or these guys jack too but just don't publicly acknowledge it.

[bladehunter]

37 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

None of them are lying.  There is no universal definition for a 3 wood.  There is no universal definition for a 5 iron.  That is the point.  The M2 "three woods" were 16.5*.  I knew when I saw one of those that the poser carrying it needed more loft to elevate their wood due to a lack of speed but were tricked into buying that 3 wood by marketing gimmicks.  How far do you hit a real 15* 3 wood jerkface? With the 45 gram graphite shaft and the too-much-loft 3 wood.  Nice carry, too bad its FAKE!!!!!!!!!  I may hit ground balls but at least I'm hitting a real 3 wood.

 

Do you see how silly it sounds when people criticize iron loft that works for some people?  I play "fake" iron distances and you play a "fake" 3 wood.  So what.  Neither are fake, both are real, and arguing against strong lofts you need to also be arguing against about a hundred other things (like, for example, how a D grind is just an easier M grind for people who chop wood instead of release the club... isn't that INFURIATING?!)

Lol.  No. I play a 4 wood.  It’s a real thing. Inside the traditionally understood definition.

 

you’re taking this personally,and   thats unfortunate since you’re not a club marketer.  
 

all that’s being said is that they print 4-Aw on clubs now instead of 3-Pw.  For a simplistic definition.   If it’s not for the intention of marketing deception then what is the reason ? 

[LeoLeo99]

9 minutes ago, agolf1 said:

The Taylormade Pittsburgh Persimmon 3-wood was 17 degrees.  The 4-wood was 20 degrees and the 5-wood was 23 degrees (7-wood was 27.5 degrees!).

 

Why no fuss with woods from everyone else? 

 

Either there is no standard and it really doesn't matter.  Or these guys jack too but just don't publicly acknowledge it.

 

I played the Pittsburgh Persimmon Tour Spoon at, I think, 13°.  That was a long time ago.  Now, I have a PING G at 14.5° and a 917F2 at 16.5°.  They both go about the same distance.  The PING goes a little higher.  Go figure.  

[A.Princey]

I dare you to hit a Rogue X 4i and try to hit the same distance with an MP 2i..... either you'll sandbag the test to fit your reasoning, or you'll neglect to admit that loft-for-loft does not apply. 

[boggyman]

50 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

None of them are lying.  There is no universal definition for a 3 wood.  There is no universal definition for a 5 iron.  That is the point.  The M2 "three woods" were 16.5*.  I knew when I saw one of those that the poser carrying it needed more loft to elevate their wood due to a lack of speed but were tricked into buying that 3 wood by marketing gimmicks.  How far do you hit a real 15* 3 wood jerkface? With the 45 gram graphite shaft and the too-much-loft 3 wood.  Nice carry, too bad its FAKE!!!!!!!!!  I may hit ground balls but at least I'm hitting a real 3 wood.

 

Do you see how silly it sounds when people criticize iron loft that works for some people?  I play "fake" iron distances and you play a "fake" 3 wood.  So what.  Neither are fake, both are real, and arguing against strong lofts you need to also be arguing against about a hundred other things (like, for example, how a D grind is just an easier M grind for people who chop wood instead of release the club... isn't that INFURIATING?!)

M2 16.5 was known as a HL 3 wood. There was also a 15*.

[chippa13]

Here's the thing, my current 4 iron is basically the same spec as the 12 year old 3 iron it replaced and yet it is still about 15 yards longer than the old 3.

[Titleist_PT23]

32 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Lol.  No. I play a 4 wood.  It’s a real thing. Inside the traditionally understood definition.

 

you’re taking this personally,and   thats unfortunate since you’re not a club marketer.  
 

all that’s being said is that they print 4-Aw on clubs now instead of 3-Pw.  For a simplistic definition.   If it’s not for the intention of marketing deception then what is the reason ? 

See my post above.  It's a "4-wood" in the times of a 47 degree PW.  It's a "3-wood" in the times of a 49-50 degree PW.  I would content that 49-50 is a true "pitching" club for those that get anchored to the words matching the use of the club.  So in this sense it isn't a 4-wood.  Is this marketing too?  Either way, people accept it.  That's what I think is so dumb about the gripes of iron lofts.

 

[nsxguy]

It is ever thus.

 

Over the past few years, every time I try a new iron and am either "impressed" over a distance gain or "disappointed" over a distance loss, inevitably, after I check the lofts of the new clubs I find almost without exception a difference of 2-3 yards for each degree of difference.

 

My G20s, now semi-retired, were 32* for the 7. I try out the Cobra F9 and start seeing 158 and go "OK, now we're talkin'". Welp, F9 7 is 30*.

 

Loved the Cally X-forged. Hitting the 7 flush and can't get over 146 or so. Check the loft, yup. Sure enough, 34*

 

Time after time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Tree Levino]

45 minutes ago, A.Princey said:

I dare you to hit a Rogue X 4i and try to hit the same distance with an MP 2i..... either you'll sandbag the test to fit your reasoning, or you'll neglect to admit that loft-for-loft does not apply. 

 

I didn't say launch wasn't a factor. In fact, I said even for pros having a lower/back CG is good sub 27 degrees. I'm not arguing that point at all with the original post. Your point is sort of.. pointless though?  I could say to you try to carry your rogue X the same distance as a Sim 5w or something and I guarantee you out of 10 shots you aren't going to hit the iron past the fairway wood very often. Just like I'm not going to hit the MP 2i as far as the 5w. It's going to spin more and launch lower. I do think that loft for loft I could get the ball speed to be very comparable between the two irons though. The launch conditions of the Rogue X would likely blow it out of the water though. 

[RoyalMustang]

I have been playing with a set of Srixon 585's with C-taper S+ shafts in comparison to my Mizuno MMC MP20s..  I have to say, I don't notice much of a difference in accuracy (if anything, the Srixons want to draw) but man, do they go far. The Mizuno 5-iron is 205 if I really hit it well, and the Srixon is 215.  

 

There is a weird thought process though; I step up to the tee at that 180-yard and normally hitting a pretty full 6-iron.  With the Sirxon, the 6 is going to be "easy" and I can relax a bit.   Just the other day, I had a 195-yard par 3 into a one-club headwind.  With that Srixon, I just said "swing easy, you got this" and voila, ball had a great trajectory and left me with a 15-foot birdie put.  I would have had to hit a stellar ball on the Mizuno 5 to get that length.  

 

I bet if I play the Srixon long enough I will get used to the stronger lofts and no longer mentally adjust to the easy swing. I started doing that in my rounds though; instead of hitting the 9-iron 155 with the Mizuno which is a normal swing, I am pulling out an 8 iron, choking down, and making a real easy swing.  It isn't a terrible approach; kind of like just changing the lofts!

[RoyalMustang]

On 1/28/2021 at 1:21 PM, TigerInTheWoods said:

 

Completely agree. What I'm not cool with though is people who aren't in the know believing they are getting these insane equipment advancements from the OEMs, when in fact they are simply changing the loft. I've played with guys that have 4-PW in the 790 or even something as strong as the Rogue X and aren't aware of how to gap their wedges or what that is changing. Moreover, we haven't even touched on the fact really that most average to slower speed golfers can't launch a 24 degree iron on a usable trajectory anyways even with "tech advancements" (I realize it is easier to hit a 24 degree Ping G higher than a 24 degree blade). I agree that extra launch, even for pros, is good sub 27 degrees (for most). 

 

So in the case of the attached T400 specs, an average golfer should be playing 7-W49, and then a SW and LW and then going to a 4h (which will probably confuse them since they're stopping at a 7i, but I digress). I would absolutely love to see an average bogey golfer hit the 5i in that set on a usable trajectory. 

 

 

Yikes. That "5-iron" would be a 235 yard club for me!  The PW 175. 

 

The good thing about this: as your PW carry X2 =driver carry, by playing these clubs, I will be carrying 350 with my driver as well!  Nobody can argue an additional 60 yards of driver carry isn't a huge benefit.  Isn't technology great? 

[nitram]

1 hour ago, LeoLeo99 said:

 

I played the Pittsburgh Persimmon Tour Spoon at, I think, 13°.  That was a long time ago.  Now, I have a PING G at 14.5° and a 917F2 at 16.5°.  They both go about the same distance.  The PING goes a little higher.  Go figure.  

 

Yeah, but that PP Tour Spoon was the shiz, wasn't it Leo?

[QuigleyDU]

Weston maughn wrote a good article about this exact thing.

[bladehunter]

9 hours ago, agolf1 said:

See my post above.  It's a "4-wood" in the times of a 47 degree PW.  It's a "3-wood" in the times of a 49-50 degree PW.  I would content that 49-50 is a true "pitching" club for those that get anchored to the words matching the use of the club.  So in this sense it isn't a 4-wood.  Is this marketing too?  Either way, people accept it.  That's what I think is so dumb about the gripes of iron lofts.

 

I don’t really agree. I think 16.5-17 has been a 4 wood since the mid 90s ...the pw was 48-50 then.  
 

but if we must. Sure. These evil idiots.  My 3 wood has a 4 on it !!!!! I don’t approve ! 

[bladehunter]

9 hours ago, nsxguy said:

It is ever thus.

 

Over the past few years, every time I try a new iron and am either "impressed" over a distance gain or "disappointed" over a distance loss, inevitably, after I check the lofts of the new clubs I find almost without exception a difference of 2-3 yards for each degree of difference.

 

My G20s, now semi-retired, were 32* for the 7. I try out the Cobra F9 and start seeing 158 and go "OK, now we're talkin'". Welp, F9 7 is 30*.

 

Loved the Cally X-forged. Hitting the 7 flush and can't get over 146 or so. Check the loft, yup. Sure enough, 34*

 

Time after time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Absolutely.   My T100 has a pw that’s 46.  So a gap wedge that’s 50.  Yesterday I hit balls with a 50 degree titleist mb pw the 50 gap snd the mb 9.  Literally identical 50 and mb pw and 9 iron to T100 pw.    

[pinestreetgolf]

10 hours ago, nsxguy said:

It is ever thus.

 

Over the past few years, every time I try a new iron and am either "impressed" over a distance gain or "disappointed" over a distance loss, inevitably, after I check the lofts of the new clubs I find almost without exception a difference of 2-3 yards for each degree of difference.

 

My G20s, now semi-retired, were 32* for the 7. I try out the Cobra F9 and start seeing 158 and go "OK, now we're talkin'". Welp, F9 7 is 30*.

 

Loved the Cally X-forged. Hitting the 7 flush and can't get over 146 or so. Check the loft, yup. Sure enough, 34*

 

Time after time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Sure, but there's a difference between you (or blade) being annoyed at it / making it harder for you to find irons / not liking the trend for your own game and starting a thread whose title is "tell me its not all about ego".

 

Its not all about ego.  I like the irons in my bag that go farther at 37" shaft than my old ones.  So, you guys make very valid points in the context of why someone should or should not like the trend, but it falls well short of showing that its "all about ego" for people who play Mavriks and the like.

[pinestreetgolf]

11 hours ago, boggyman said:

M2 16.5 was known as a HL 3 wood. There was also a 15*.

 

Right, that's the point.  They make stuff up constantly all over the bag.  Iron lofts arn't a sacred cow.  They do this everywhere, yet only loft gets called out.  There is no such thing as a 3HL.

 

So, you'd be good with 7LL on any iron? (7 low loft).  Ping did this.  Everyone the boards went nuts about jacked lofts and marketing.

 

So why does bladehunter's 3HL have a 4 on it?  Is he trying to impress people by lying about how far he can hit a 4 wood that has a jacked loft from a 3 HL?

 

My head hurts.

Edited January 30, 2021 by pinestreetgolf

[Titleist_PT23]

32 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I don’t really agree. I think 16.5-17 has been a 4 wood since the mid 90s ...the pw was 48-50 then.  
 

but if we must. Sure. These evil idiots.  My 3 wood has a 4 on it !!!!! I don’t approve ! 

The woods yes.  Callaway Big Bertha Warbird; the 3-wood was 15 and the 5-wood was 18.  I think they had a 4-wood at 16.5...

 

Irons I'm not sure.  It probably depends on what type/model.  PING Zing/Zing 2, 845s = 47.  Wilson Staff Progressive (early 90s) = 49, Wilson Staff RM Midsize (mid 90s) = 47.

[pinestreetgolf]

11 hours ago, agolf1 said:

The Taylormade Pittsburgh Persimmon 3-wood was 17 degrees.  The 4-wood was 20 degrees and the 5-wood was 23 degrees (7-wood was 27.5 degrees!).

 

Why no fuss with woods from everyone else? 

 

Either there is no standard and it really doesn't matter.  Or these guys jack too but just don't publicly acknowledge it.

 

You got it right with the first sentence.

[Tree Levino]

6 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Sure, but there's a difference between you (or blade) being annoyed at it / making it harder for you to find irons / not liking the trend for your own game and starting a thread whose title is "tell me its not all about ego".

 

Its not all about ego.  I like the irons in my bag that go farther at 37" shaft than my old ones.  So, you guys make very valid points in the context of why someone should or should not like the trend, but it falls well short of showing that its "all about ego" for people who play Mavriks and the like.

So my title offended you. Though probably not written perfectly, I have clarified that it’s about the manufacturers trying to play on our ego and emotions to make us think their “tech” is pushing the game forward. In reality, overall scores haven’t lowered so what has really happened here? If you want to increase your distance, work on compressing the golf ball and start a regime of HIIT exercise and Yoga. Get a medicine/slam ball and some speed sticks and start to throw and swing. My speed has has gone 10mph in a could of months without much change other than adding throwing exercises. 

[pinestreetgolf]

22 minutes ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

So my title offended you. Though probably not written perfectly, I have clarified that it’s about the manufacturers trying to play on our ego and emotions to make us think their “tech” is pushing the game forward. In reality, overall scores haven’t lowered so what has really happened here? If you want to increase your distance, work on compressing the golf ball and start a regime of HIIT exercise and Yoga. Get a medicine/slam ball and some speed sticks and start to throw and swing. My speed has has gone 10mph in a could of months without much change other than adding throwing exercises. 

 

"Offended" is strong (its over the internet) but I think you are way off base.  Every OEM in every industry is trying to play on ego and emotions.  We don't need a handful of your six iron swings to know that.  And they do it all over the bag, from wedge grinds to iron lofts to four woods that are actually three woods (where more loft gives more distance, instead of less).  Different strokes for different folks.  I think there is huge value in hitting a club with a shorter shaft longer if you have the speed to actually make it stop (which I do).  So I love my Mavrik's.  Are they "longer"?  No idea.  But I don't carry a 16.5* club with a 3 on it, or a wedge with a D on it (the D grind is a M grind for players who chop wood around the green - some love it, but its not marketed for what it is - an M grind for guys who are WAY too steep - its marketed as Aaron Dill's Tour Sauce, which is nonsense).  This is how OEM's do it from kid's toys to golf clubs (all of them, not just irons) to clothes to everything.

 

Yet we have to read humble-brag posts from people here who hate iron lofts for some reason, like a cartoon villian hates its super-hero.  Give it a rest.  OEMs are always after our egos with every single club, not just irons.

 

Really long distance placed prominently in the post when not required? Check.

Tell people distance doesn't matter in the same thread you use actual distance numbers? Check.

No information at all beyond that you swung them? Check.

Sweeping, offensive conclusion about all golfers based on you swinging a few times in your home net? Check.

No qualification what-so-ever that since the data set contains only you the conclusion might apply too only you? Check

Click-bait thread title for people who love to get upset about this? Check.

 

You have hit the rare Golf WRX Forum Logic Fallacy / Holier-Than-Thou Six-Fecta! 

 

*Hardest eye roll humanly possible*.

Edited January 30, 2021 by pinestreetgolf

[NRJyzr]

46 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

I like the irons in my bag that go farther at 37" shaft than my old ones. 

 

That's not intrinsic to modern irons.  It's quite possible to accomplish that using irons that are decades old, switching between sets that are each from the same period.

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by NRJyzr

[Red4282]

My goodness this post is a mess. That said since theres no traditional names/lofts.... i carry my lob wedge 305. Strange though because its the first lob wedge i have owned that was 460ccs. I need some help naming my other 12 wedges though.