Mizuno MP-22

[rt_charger]

I don't understand how JPX and MP are overlapping. I look at the MP20, or the new 221's, and see a clean, traditional looking shiny blade. I then look at the 921 tour and see a matte finish, modern looking player's iron, with straight cut lines. 

 

Isn't the whole point of the two lines to have two different aesthetics? Also as far as the handicap debate goes, JPX obviously caters for higher cappers more with forged, hot metal and HMP.

Edited August 12, 2021 by rt_charger

[RacineBoxer]

1 hour ago, typedef said:

 

Imagine..

 

..being known for making the best feeling, best performing, one-piece forged irons in the world, then doubling down on two lines of clubs (the JPX and now the Mizuno Pro) that cater to mid- to high-handicap players by using inserts and harsh-feeling metal alloys..

 

I recall an interview with Vosh where he said some people may not like the new direction the MP line is going to take.  Having some time to reflect on it, I can't help but think that's why Mizuno went with the "Mizuno Pro" branding, because over time, it's going to resemble the traditional MPs less and less.

 

The MP20 replacement, the 221, is reportedly a smaller blade. It's got to be one of the most pro only irons made today.

[deep18]

Not here to second guess the Mizuno guys but with two great lines of irons I’d think you could keep the lines from blurring so much.  You want pure forged carbon steel feel, MP. You want lots of tech and to push the limits of performance, JPX. 
 

That said every 3-4 years when I’m looking at irons will I always give Mizuno a long hard look. 

[SwingMan]

51 minutes ago, deep18 said:

Not here to second guess the Mizuno guys but with two great lines of irons I’d think you could keep the lines from blurring so much.  You want pure forged carbon steel feel, MP. You want lots of tech and to push the limits of performance, JPX. 
 

That said every 3-4 years when I’m looking at irons will I always give Mizuno a long hard look. 

 

No worries. The Mizuno Pro 22x Lineup will be different than the MP20, meaning very different than JPX.

[Flyer712]

I'm super excited to learn more about the 223 set. I think they will look great in person. 

[TiScape]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:04 PM, RacineBoxer said:

 

The MP20 replacement, the 221 is reportedly a smaller blade. It's got to be one of the most pro only irons made today.

Thank goodness. The MP-20 is too big, has way too much offset and don’t get me started on the top line… JK

[Tdsjfb]

6 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Thank goodness. The MP-20 is too big, has way too much offset and don’t get me started on the top line… JK

Good to know, as the MP-20 MB was too much for me, the MMC is pure gold.

[TiScape]

5 minutes ago, Tdsjfb said:

Good to know, as the MP-20 MB was too much for me, the MMC is pure gold.

Oh yeah. MMC is 💰 

[DataGolfer]

I don't know anything about golf clubs, but this release doesn't make that much sense to me, on paper... in general... and as a lefty.

 

I'm still gaming JPX 850 Forged, which is nestled between the newer, more forgiving Forged, and the Tour, which is nearly a blade.

 

The JPX SEL set doesn't really work because the Forged and Tour are so far apart. 

 

The MP SEL set doesn't really work because the HMB are nasty big. 

 

Most good players want Tours, MMCs, or blades. Most higher handicaps want Hot Metals and Forged. 

 

Now, they're going with the MP-223 for lefties, but the MP-223 is a CHROMOLY club in 4-7?

 

So the MP line, which is supposed to be players oriented, is going to be the opposite of "Nothing Feels like a Mizuno" 

 

ZX7 or T100 it is in 2022? 

[capking]

I think I’m going to replace the HMBs of my split set with these in the MMC equivalent. They look pretty good, the original HMBs are pretty clunky, hopefully they go down to the 3i this time.

[leftycabe]

22 minutes ago, golfman1023 said:

I don't know anything about golf clubs, but this release doesn't make that much sense to me, on paper... in general... and as a lefty.

 

I'm still gaming JPX 850 Forged, which is nestled between the newer, more forgiving Forged, and the Tour, which is nearly a blade.

 

The JPX SEL set doesn't really work because the Forged and Tour are so far apart. 

 

The MP SEL set doesn't really work because the HMB are nasty big. 

 

Most good players want Tours, MMCs, or blades. Most higher handicaps want Hot Metals and Forged. 

 

Now, they're going with the MP-223 for lefties, but the MP-223 is a CHROMOLY club in 4-7?

 

So the MP line, which is supposed to be players oriented, is going to be the opposite of "Nothing Feels like a Mizuno" 

 

ZX7 or T100 it is in 2022? 

Could not agree with this more. I’ve been “one of those lefties” anxiously awaiting the day I could play another set of Mizuno irons. I played the MP32 and the MP68s but wore both out. I tried the JPX 921 along side the T100. My experience was that the T100 felt and looked significantly better. This could very well be my own personal preference but based on my experience, I ordered the T100 set. I own the ZX7s and I felt the T100s were better feeling and looking, to me. 

[DataGolfer]

My understanding is that the MP-20 MMC was situated somewhere between the JPX 921 Forged and JPX 921 Tour. It was for the single digit players who thought the Tour was a little too "bladey"

 

Turning it into a CHROMOLY club seems like a terrible move, especially when every other OEM seems to have great offerings in this category. T100, ZX7, i59, P7MC, etc. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by golfman1023

[rt_charger]

6 hours ago, golfman1023 said:

My understanding is that the MP-20 MMC was situated somewhere between the JPX 921 Forged and JPX 921 Tour. It was for the single digit players who thought the Tour was a little too "bladey"

JPX was always the more modern looking, and higher tech iron. It's not common someone will float between the two lines - as stated by Chris Voshall, people are either an MP, or a JPX person. 

 

The MMC is the Mizuno equivalent to the T-100, where the tour is more or less a 620 CB.

[Tdsjfb]

3 minutes ago, rt_charger said:

JPX was always the more modern looking, and higher tech iron. It's not common someone will float between the two lines - as stated by Chris Voshall, people are either an MP, or a JPX person. 

 

The MMC is the Mizuno equivalent to the T-100, where the tour is more or less a 620 CB.

I'm hoping your right about the MMC being the equivalent of the T100, but considering the head of the MMC and Tour are almost identical size ( https://mizunogolf.com/us/irons-comparison-table/ ), I think the comparison of the Tour being the 620CB might equivalent might not be the best. How about MP-20 and 620CB?

[rt_charger]

5 minutes ago, Tdsjfb said:

considering the head of the MMC and Tour are almost identical size ( https://mizunogolf.com/us/irons-comparison-table/ ), I think the comparison of the Tour being the 620CB might equivalent might not be the best. How about MP-20 and 620CB?

The comparison there is because the MP20 is an actual blade, where the JPX tour is an almost blade. Given how the 620 CB is almost basically a blade, the tour kind of fits the same role.

 

Needless to say, I'm ignoring head size as Japanese clubs have longer blade lengths in general.

[sg91]

5 minutes ago, Tdsjfb said:

I'm hoping your right about the MMC being the equivalent of the T100, but considering the head of the MMC and Tour are almost identical size ( https://mizunogolf.com/us/irons-comparison-table/ ), I think the comparison of the Tour being the 620CB might equivalent might not be the best. How about MP-20 and 620CB?

 @rt_charger is pretty bang on in their comparison as there's a bunch of stuff in the MP-20 MMCs the Tour's don't have (Titanium behind the face + tungsten in the toe of the 4-7 iron).

[Tdsjfb]

1 minute ago, sg91 said:

 @rt_charger is pretty bang on in their comparison as there's a bunch of stuff in the MP-20 MMCs the Tour's don't have (Titanium behind the face + tungsten in the toe of the 4-7 iron).

I was looking at it form strickly head size and, your right, the technology packages (read:Tungsten) would imply your comparison being accurate.

[RacineBoxer]

8 hours ago, golfman1023 said:

My understanding is that the MP-20 MMC was situated somewhere between the JPX 921 Forged and JPX 921 Tour. It was for the single digit players who thought the Tour was a little too "bladey"

 

Turning it into a CHROMOLY club seems like a terrible move, especially when every other OEM seems to have great offerings in this category. T100, ZX7, i59, P7MC, etc. 

 

There's no chromoly in the 8-9-W-gap. So for many people they'll only see the chromoly in the 5-6-7.

 

The difference between the 7i and 8i in the JPX forged, where it switches from chromoly to 1025 isn't huge. 

 

I'm not sure its been confirmed yet but if the new line still has the copper layer that should be another reason why the 223, even in the 5-6-7 with chromoly, would still feel pretty darn good. 

[jetmech879]

2 hours ago, RacineBoxer said:

 

There's no chromoly in the 8-9-W-gap. So for many people they'll only see the chromoly in the 5-6-7.

 

The difference between the 7i and 8i in the JPX forged, where it switches from chromoly to 1025 isn't huge. 

 

I'm not sure its been confirmed yet but if the new line still has the copper layer that should be another reason why the 223, even in the 5-6-7 with chromoly, would still feel pretty darn good. 

To be honest, I couldn’t feel a difference in the JPX 921 Forged irons. Chromoly or not they felt good. I think y’all will need to hit them for yourself before judging them. I know the boron in past irons felt a little clicky but not my experience with chromoly. YMMV. 

[DataGolfer]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:55 PM, rt_charger said:

I don't understand how JPX and MP are overlapping. I look at the MP20, or the new 221's, and see a clean, traditional looking shiny blade. I then look at the 921 tour and see a matte finish, modern looking player's iron, with straight cut lines. 

 

Isn't the whole point of the two lines to have two different aesthetics? Also as far as the handicap debate goes, JPX obviously caters for higher cappers more with forged, hot metal and HMP.

 

They're overlapping because the JPX Tour is the 2nd least forgiving Mizuno iron after the Blade option. 

 

The MMC was positioned as "Too good for JPX Forged, not good enough for JPX Tour" 

 

But now that it's a CHROMOLY club, I'm not so sure it's competitive against T100, ZX7, TC-201, and so forth 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by golfman1023

[Lefty87]

50 minutes ago, golfman1023 said:

 

They're overlapping because the JPX Tour is the 2nd least forgiving Mizuno iron after the Blade option. 

 

The MMC was positioned as "Too good for JPX Forged, not good enough for JPX Tour" 

 

But now that it's a CHROMOLY club, I'm not so sure it's competitive against T100, ZX7, TC-201, and so forth 

 

Does the chromoly only affect sound feel, or is there a performance benefit? 

[jetmech879]

2 hours ago, Lefty87 said:

Does the chromoly only affect sound feel, or is there a performance benefit? 

It has very little affect on sound and feel. It is a stronger material which allows them to manufacture the club face thinner to increase ball speed. 

[halfsumo]

The new T100 is SUP10 in the 3-7 irons. Titleist fan seem to not care at all.

 

Maybe these will feel even better than the last MMCs.

 

[Fairway14]

My experience with Mizuno is from having played rounds of golf with the following:

 

MP 63 (2011 CB)

MP 69 (2012 MB)

MP  4  (2014 MB)

MP 15 (2015  CB)

MP 5  (2016  MB)

 

As far as I know all of the above models were easy for consumers to understand , that is relatively small head  size irons in either a cavity back or muscle back form, and my guess is that each of the models sold reasonably well. During the same 5 year period Mizuno produced JPX irons which were of larger head size, and I believe those too sold reasonably well.

For more recent more  years, 2018 to today, Mizuno seems to have made the MP and JPX designs more similar to each other, correct ?

[TiScape]

56 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

My experience with Mizuno is from having played rounds of golf with the following:

 

MP 63 (2011 CB)

MP 69 (2012 MB)

MP  4  (2014 MB)

MP 15 (2015  CB)

MP 5  (2016  MB)

 

As far as I know all of the above models were easy for consumers to understand , that is relatively small head  size irons in either a cavity back or muscle back form, and my guess is that each of the models sold reasonably well. During the same 5 year period Mizuno produced JPX irons which were of larger head size, and I believe those too sold reasonably well.

For more recent more  years, 2018 to today, Mizuno seems to have made the MP and JPX designs more similar to each other, correct ?

The JPX Forged, HMP and HM are all more perimeter weighted than anything in the MP line. I think the MMC (MP line) and the JPX Tours are pretty darn similar. The HMB is an odd one for me. I don’t see it as a true MP line iron. It could easily be in the JPX line IMO. Also interesting to me is on their chart, Mizuno considers the JPX Tour less forgiving than two of their MP irons. MMC and HMB. I always thought MP line was less forgiving than JPX. So to your last sentence. Yeah, it does seem the 2 lines have become more similar in areas and the lines are blurred. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by TiScape

[DataGolfer]

Something I want to add, taking all of this in

 

If, as Vosh says, "You're either an MP guy or a JPX guy" and that most golfers won't float between the lines,

 

Then why are they bringing JPX tech into the MP line? Why are they making JPX that are less forgiving than MP?  

 

It seems the JPX Tour is really the MP-20 CB, and the upcoming 223 is going to be more of a techy T100 type iron. 

 

The waters are muddy, and it's really not our problem to figure out... we'll see how Mizuno handles these concerns. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by golfman1023

[rt_charger]

I'll say it again in a slightly different way:

 

It's easier to think of JPX and MP as two different brands of clubs that are both made by Mizuno, which both have a 'handicap range' inside their brand - JPX is just now stretching lower to the better player with the Tour model.

 

MP being the more traditional looking club (which HMB definitely is, despite being thicker), and JPX being the more modern looking club.

Edited August 16, 2021 by rt_charger

[Lefty87]

7 hours ago, jetmech879 said:

It has very little affect on sound and feel. It is a stronger material which allows them to manufacture the club face thinner to increase ball speed. 

Then what’s all the fuss about? Ha 

[Mizuno North]

Most certainly looks like Mizuno will be using the "Mizuno Pro" branding on their irons for Europe.

Plus the 22x naming now looks confirmed.

 

This was just posted on the FB feed.

Announcement for the ST-G driver, available from October, but notice the 221 muscleback in 4, 5 and 6 iron. 

[jetmech879]

6 hours ago, Mizuno North said:

Most certainly looks like Mizuno will be using the "Mizuno Pro" branding on their irons for Europe.

Plus the 22x naming now looks confirmed.

 

This was just posted on the FB feed.

Announcement for the ST-G driver, available from October, but notice the 221 muscleback in 4, 5 and 6 iron. 

I just got the ST-Z driver and love it! So why wouldn’t I go ahead and buy the 220G in October and a new set of MP 22X in January!?!?🤣