Learning to be at peace and accepting improvement has flat lined

[stingerfade]

19 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Yep.  But that’s the mindset of a player who is still grinding. Which is paramount to playing this game.  If you don’t enjoy a good kick in the jewels , play checkers or tennis or something else.  😂   
 

It’s important to celebrate improvement , but. Being close to a greater Goal during that improvement , is tough for us hard head types.  maybe that will push him over the edge to go a couple shots lower next time.  His mind now knows he can do it with zero doubt.  

He did it the next day!!

[SylvesterLundgren]

It could be a combination of things

one if you’re barely getting out to the course nvm the range. You’re always going to be in a “shaking the rust off” situation 

but a big focus like some others have said with the elder golfers. !!! ADVANCE THE BALL!! 
as long as that topped, thinned, fatted shot goes towards the hole. You’re moving in the right direction. 
you have to remove expectation and what you expect your result to be. Until you shape your game where your average becomes that expectation. You cant really be mad that you’ve been slicing or moving the ball a certain way compared to your best attentive shot. 
Pay attention to what you do well and what you don’t do well. Most of the time the right pieces are there, then comes in the pink meat and you start trying to predict the future (good or bad). 
my golf coach has said this and no matter how cliche it is. 
“One shot at a time” 

its easy to say but honestly remove expectation and give yourself a chance every swing. You’d be surprised the difference. 

[bonvivantva]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

The day I give up on improving will be the day I quit.  

 

I spent about a decade playing social golf.  I only played with friends or family.  I only practiced maybe a couple hours before a trip or best ball tournament.  I rarely even thought about golf.  

 

Now I'm 100% with you on that.  I'm really trying to work out some swing flaws while I'm relatively young as I find the grind of constant practice and slamming the mat pretty taxing.  Once I have a serviceable swing (I think I'm getting close), I look forward to spending the time I have left working on short game, putting, course management, etc.  Always trying to improve.

[NoTalentLefty]

If OP has issues with hand eye coordination, try Jim Venetos golf videos. Takes any timing out of the swing. I’ve used it with success because shifting weight became a problem to me due to hip replacements. It won’t necessarily make you a scratch golfer but it will get you in the 80s.

[driveandputtmachine]

On 6/29/2021 at 9:48 PM, Wormkiller said:

Hello all,

 

Over the last year or so, with lessons, playing frequently, practicing frequently, changing my methods of practice, studying the game - both the technical side, mental side and course management side - I've realised by being brutally honest with objective, self-assessment that when it comes to my scores I'm not really improving. Although I definitely enjoy the process of practicing and studying the game, the reality is the same scores keep getting added up on my scorecard - averaging in the high 90's with the occasional score over 100. Over 9 I can occasionally get around the 42/43 mark but most of the time its between 45-50.

 

I'm 38 now and have played a lot of sports, but never have I really excelled. I've always been the "tryer" with a tendency to invest everything I have into a sport and not get particularly far, aside from a couple of good seasons when I was younger playing Australian Rules football and cricket. I used to be absolutely obsessed with tennis - still never got very far. And each time I've got frustrated to the point that I gave up.

 

Now with golf, I think I've reached the limit of my ability. Probably limited by my hand-eye coordination and mental make-up. Maybe if I took it up when I was younger, but then again I might be burnt out and frustrated to the point of giving the game away. I can smash balls on the range then shank them on the fairway the next day. With no real evidence of this tendency going away. I can't even imagine scoring in the 80's on my home course. I've played with others who have and am awed by their skills, knowing they possess something I never will.

 

Is it a normal part of a golfer's progression to realise they've reached a limit to their ability and just accept that they are going to linger about their handicap or slowly decline at a point? Is it wrong to be at peace accepting that I will perennially hover around a 20 handicap and only get worse as I get older and less physically able? Can others relate?

 

I'm envisioning a happy future where I'm retired and rock up to the course playing with my buddies knowing I'll score about the same as I normally do and leave the course at the end of the day just being happy with it, taking the better rounds when I can.

If you worked with an instructor for a long time and saw no results, no matter how well he or she is perceived they are not the teacher for you.

 

Finding a teacher that can help you improve is a lot like finding a partner.  There has to be communication, and if they have to explain what they are telling you too much then they probably aren't the teacher for you.

 

For instance, I care about impact position and the ability to get into that position more often.   Forget all the buzzwords, all of it for me can be thrown in the trash.  I need to see my swing, then the instructor needs to tell me how a change will help me get into a better impact position or into a position more often.  Anything else can be thrown away as far as I am concerned.  I don't know what supination means, I don't care.  I don't care about posting on my right or left and then making the trailing arm do this that or the other thing   I know there are people who love that and only want instruction that way and that's great for them, but not for me.

 

Working with an instructor that cannot meet my requirements is a waste of time and will probably hinder me than it will help me.

[Petethreeput]

On 6/29/2021 at 7:48 PM, Wormkiller said:

Hello all,

 

Over the last year or so, with lessons, playing frequently, practicing frequently, changing my methods of practice, studying the game - both the technical side, mental side and course management side - I've realised by being brutally honest with objective, self-assessment that when it comes to my scores I'm not really improving. Although I definitely enjoy the process of practicing and studying the game, the reality is the same scores keep getting added up on my scorecard - averaging in the high 90's with the occasional score over 100. Over 9 I can occasionally get around the 42/43 mark but most of the time its between 45-50.

 

I'm 38 now and have played a lot of sports, but never have I really excelled. I've always been the "tryer" with a tendency to invest everything I have into a sport and not get particularly far, aside from a couple of good seasons when I was younger playing Australian Rules football and cricket. I used to be absolutely obsessed with tennis - still never got very far. And each time I've got frustrated to the point that I gave up.

 

Now with golf, I think I've reached the limit of my ability. Probably limited by my hand-eye coordination and mental make-up. Maybe if I took it up when I was younger, but then again I might be burnt out and frustrated to the point of giving the game away. I can smash balls on the range then shank them on the fairway the next day. With no real evidence of this tendency going away. I can't even imagine scoring in the 80's on my home course. I've played with others who have and am awed by their skills, knowing they possess something I never will.

 

Is it a normal part of a golfer's progression to realise they've reached a limit to their ability and just accept that they are going to linger about their handicap or slowly decline at a point? Is it wrong to be at peace accepting that I will perennially hover around a 20 handicap and only get worse as I get older and less physically able? Can others relate?

 

I'm envisioning a happy future where I'm retired and rock up to the course playing with my buddies knowing I'll score about the same as I normally do and leave the course at the end of the day just being happy with it, taking the better rounds when I can.

This will sound counter intuitive, but once you get here, I suspect you will see your scores drop.  I was at a 5-6 plateau for years, and when I finally accepted my fate as a 5-6 I became a 1.5.  The realization I was where I was let me just swing the golf club and chase the ball.  I knew I wasn't going to get any better.  I am old, fat, and have had a number of back surgeries so there was no way to improve on it.  Lo and behold, just accepting my lot in life and letting go of the stress of improving led to me improving.

 

If you look at my profile now you will see I am above a 4 again, but honestly, I am tense over the ball after trying to chase distance over the winter and my scores increasing I can feel the (not coincidental) increasing stress as I try to chase 1.5 again.  So you are half way there, if you can shoot a 42 on a nine, the problem is in the kitchen, not the ingredients.  Just my opinion.

[stingerfade]

1 hour ago, Petethreeput said:

This will sound counter intuitive, but once you get here, I suspect you will see your scores drop.  I was at a 5-6 plateau for years, and when I finally accepted my fate as a 5-6 I became a 1.5.  The realization I was where I was let me just swing the golf club and chase the ball.  I knew I wasn't going to get any better.  I am old, fat, and have had a number of back surgeries so there was no way to improve on it.  Lo and behold, just accepting my lot in life and letting go of the stress of improving led to me improving.

 

If you look at my profile now you will see I am above a 4 again, but honestly, I am tense over the ball after trying to chase distance over the winter and my scores increasing I can feel the (not coincidental) increasing stress as I try to chase 1.5 again.  So you are half way there, if you can shoot a 42 on a nine, the problem is in the kitchen, not the ingredients.  Just my opinion.

That’s funny as I kinda did the same thing where I used to really grind and hit the range all the time and was just stuck. Always working on long game. Never putting or short game, putting and short game are my good parts, the only reason I’m single digit to begin with. So basically stopped going to range and working on driver and just playing and now my driving is becoming a strength. So get better by not trying to get better. Golf is weird 

[Wormkiller]

16 hours ago, anth said:

Post these stats and people will be able to tell you where you can improve:

 

Fairways hit

GIR

Putts per round

Putts per GIR

Up & Down %
 

Also, do you have any stats on miss tendencies? When you miss a fairway is it more right or left? Greens - short? Long? Left or right?

Fairways hit:

Overall: 56%

Driver: 50%

3 Wood: 60%

5 Wood: 68%

4i: 62%

Miss tendency: straight pushes and hooks.

5 Wood is my my comfortable club off the tee.

 

GIR: 25.14%

Putts per Round: 34.8

Putts per GIR: 2.2

Up and Down %: 20.31%

 

Sample size: 32 rounds

 

For a while I was going a conservative strategy of playing for bogey (that I learnt from Golf Sidekick on youtube and Will Robbins - The Scoring Method). Id try to hit the fairway with a 4 iron or 5 Wood, advance the ball with a comfortable club (eg: 8 iron), pitch into the green, try get down in 2. So this has skewed my approach stats on shotscope as many times I haven't been going for the green in 2 on par 4's, and 3 on par 5's. Didn't really get any improvement score wise doing this. So I took lessons to get my driver going again and in the last 10 rounds or so I've been playing a more standard strategy of just trying to advance the ball towards the hole as far as I can safely (I read up about Mark Broadie's work),

Edited July 2, 2021 by Wormkiller

[Wormkiller]

10 hours ago, Petethreeput said:

This will sound counter intuitive, but once you get here, I suspect you will see your scores drop.  I was at a 5-6 plateau for years, and when I finally accepted my fate as a 5-6 I became a 1.5.  The realization I was where I was let me just swing the golf club and chase the ball.  I knew I wasn't going to get any better.  I am old, fat, and have had a number of back surgeries so there was no way to improve on it.  Lo and behold, just accepting my lot in life and letting go of the stress of improving led to me improving.

 

If you look at my profile now you will see I am above a 4 again, but honestly, I am tense over the ball after trying to chase distance over the winter and my scores increasing I can feel the (not coincidental) increasing stress as I try to chase 1.5 again.  So you are half way there, if you can shoot a 42 on a nine, the problem is in the kitchen, not the ingredients.  Just my opinion.

Thanks for this. Yeah I've felt that placing expectations to improve and do better than I previously have every round might be doing no good. Saw a quite that recently that resonated with me by Nicholas Evans:

 

“Sometimes what seems like surrender isn't surrender at all. It's about seeing clearly the way life is and accepting it and being true to it, whatever the pain, because the pain of not being true to it is far, far greater"

 

Too often I've gone to the tee from the days of practicing hard with the expectation that I should be playing better, only for it to not happen. And I think that the anxiety of expectations has seen me come undone.

[Wormkiller]

9 hours ago, stingerfade said:

That’s funny as I kinda did the same thing where I used to really grind and hit the range all the time and was just stuck. Always working on long game. Never putting or short game, putting and short game are my good parts, the only reason I’m single digit to begin with. So basically stopped going to range and working on driver and just playing and now my driving is becoming a strength. So get better by not trying to get better. Golf is weird 

A game of so many contradictions.

[Wormkiller]

13 hours ago, SylvesterLundgren said:

It could be a combination of things

one if you’re barely getting out to the course nvm the range. You’re always going to be in a “shaking the rust off” situation 

but a big focus like some others have said with the elder golfers. !!! ADVANCE THE BALL!! 
as long as that topped, thinned, fatted shot goes towards the hole. You’re moving in the right direction. 
you have to remove expectation and what you expect your result to be. Until you shape your game where your average becomes that expectation. You cant really be mad that you’ve been slicing or moving the ball a certain way compared to your best attentive shot. 
Pay attention to what you do well and what you don’t do well. Most of the time the right pieces are there, then comes in the pink meat and you start trying to predict the future (good or bad). 
my golf coach has said this and no matter how cliche it is. 
“One shot at a time” 

its easy to say but honestly remove expectation and give yourself a chance every swing. You’d be surprised the difference. 

Excellent advice. That's what I want to do. Just go the the tee and play. Cut the expectations and associated stress that comes with it and just enjoy playing.

[CasualLie]

26 minutes ago, Wormkiller said:

Fairways hit:

Overall: 56%

Driver: 50%

3 Wood: 60%

5 Wood: 68%

4i: 62%

Miss tendency: straight pushes and hooks.

5 Wood is my my comfortable club off the tee.

 

GIR: 25.14%

Putts per Round: 34.8

Putts per GIR: 2.2

Up and Down %: 20.31%

 

Sample size: 32 rounds

 

For a while I was going a conservative strategy of playing for bogey (that I learnt from Golf Sidekick on youtube and Will Robbins - The Scoring Method). Id try to hit the fairway with a 4 iron or 5 Wood, advance the ball with a comfortable club (eg: 8 iron), pitch into the green, try get down in 2. So this has skewed my approach stats on shotscope as many times I haven't been going for the green in 2 on par 4's, and 3 on par 5's. Didn't really get any improvement score wise doing this. So I took lessons to get my driver going again and in the last 10 rounds or so I've been playing a more standard strategy of just trying to advance the ball towards the hole as far as I can safely (I read up about Mark Broadie's work),

 

Something missing here.  How many penalties per round?  Because based on your stats you are making par on 6 holes.  So if you are 20 over on 12 holes, or worse, you either are spraying some OB, or abominable on chipping/pitching around the greens...or both.  Regardless, seems like some easy fixes.

[Wormkiller]

2 hours ago, CasualLie said:

 

Something missing here.  How many penalties per round?  Because based on your stats you are making par on 6 holes.  So if you are 20 over on 12 holes, or worse, you either are spraying some OB, or abominable on chipping/pitching around the greens...or both.  Regardless, seems like some easy fixes.

Sorry I got my GIR stats wrong. I was looking at average green success, which is the percentage of times I found the green with a club regardless of shot number. My GIR is an abhorrent 16%. Again, a lot of rounds Ive played I havent even be aiming for the green on my 2nd shot (on par 4's) and 3rd shot (par 5's). But the last 10 rounds its 20.5%.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Wormkiller

[anth]

Fairways hit are quite good. Improvement to be made in GIR and putts per GIR. 

The putting is the easier fix. The Low GIR points to issues with your swing. You shouldn’t be hitting only 16% of greens from over 50% of fairways, unless your below average distance wise and playing a longer than average course.

 

 

 

 

[Wormkiller]

21 minutes ago, anth said:

Fairways hit are quite good. Improvement to be made in GIR and putts per GIR. 

The putting is the easier fix. The Low GIR points to issues with your swing. You shouldn’t be hitting only 16% of greens from over 50% of fairways, unless your below average distance wise and playing a longer than average course.

 

 

 

 

Yes I can see my approaches are horrible. Putting too.

 

According to shot scope:

 

Against a tour pro my strokes gained are:

-24.03 overall

Tee shots: -5.26

Approaches: -9.43

Short game: -3.48

Putting: -5.87

 

Against a 20 handcapper my strokes gained are:

+4.03 overall

Tee shots: +2.79

Approaches: +2.65

Short game: +0.91

Putting: -2.32

 

Against a 15 handicapper:

-1.76 overall

Tee shots: +0.68

Approaches: +0.53

Short game: +0.04

Putting: -3.01

 

Interesting that I gain strokes on 20 handicappers. I reckon that comes down to performing worse under the stress of competition which actually count towards handicap, and better in social rounds which don't (only comp rounds count towards handicap in Australia).

Edited July 2, 2021 by Wormkiller

[Tanner25]

8 hours ago, Wormkiller said:

Excellent advice. That's what I want to do. Just go the the tee and play. Cut the expectations and associated stress that comes with it and just enjoy playing.

 

 

In the near term, may I suggest going to new local courses or travel? Make golf more about the event rather than did you score well that day. Play with someone new. My son has played golf with new people through facebook groups. I think this will take your mind off of judging the results. many have said, lower your expectations, it is not easy during your normal courses that you play.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Tanner25

[leekgolf]

On 6/30/2021 at 11:07 AM, stingerfade said:

Ben hogan practiced every single day for 8 hours. Doubtful he (or anyone) has that much time to practice unless you’re a pro already or super rich haha

I recently watched a video on short game with Jason Day and Tiger Woods.

 

Day said he practices short game 1.5 hours every day. I think most of us don't realize how hard these pros work on their games.

[msg]

Every season I tell myself that my abilities are maxed out. But every year I improve little by little. I don't tinker with my swing anymore but I think it's all mental where I really improved. Gone are the days where I thought I would or supposed to be playing the PGA Tour. lol But, this year, for some reason I did straighten out my over fade, which helped me gain distance and get more accurate. 

 

This year, I have been playing only once a week and practice once on weekdays, sometimes not even. I think the fact that this is my reality now, made me enjoy the game more rather than chasing goals or scores. I enjoy the walk, the nature, the every second that I am not working and I am at the golf course. I think this made me relax and feel better when I am out there. 

 

To be able to maintain my handicap even if I play / practice less, is already a win for me. I currently am sitting at 9 handicap based on my Golf Canada app. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by msg

[Tanner25]

19 hours ago, leekgolf said:

I recently watched a video on short game with Jason Day and Tiger Woods.

 

Day said he practices short game 1.5 hours every day. I think most of us don't realize how hard these pros work on their games.

 

Agreed. But, no wonder Day has a bad back. Saw him at a recent tourney, walking was tough for him.. 

[Tax77]

Play 18 once a week, hit the range once a week before work, I shoot low 90s and have a great time doing it. 2-3 drives down the pipe, couple wedges at the pin, a few long irons that fly high and straight. That's all I need to get me back out next Saturday.

[North Butte]

I went through the early stages (beginner) of putting in a good bit of "work" (if you can call practicing golf work!) at figuring out how to get the ball in the air. Then a long period of gradual improvement and eventually a period of trying really hard to get better at the game. Like the OP after a couple years of that I realized it wasn't like I was ever going to be shooting in the 60's or playing at scratch in the championship flight of tournaments. 

 

So I bailed on the "improvement" idea and just settled for playing as much golf as I could. I still go see my teaching pro once in a while or go practice some if I'm hitting tee shots OB or struggling with duffed shots around the green. I can't deal with repeated complete fails like that. But mostly I just try to keep my bad rounds somewhere near bogey golf and I show up every chance I get and play. I'm very happy doing that, much more happy than if I were skipping rounds of golf to spend hours at the driving range or at lessons.  

[Handfull]

Stick with it and keep working on your game.  Improvement doesn’t happen when you want it and we all have hit that plateau every now and again.

 

many times breaking thru isn’t even because of a swing change, sometimes other aspects in your game change which causes an improvement in your game (I.e. better strategy, improved focus, mental health, Preshot  routine.)

 

just make sure your having fun.  That’s why we play golf (right?)

[chrisf60526]

On 6/30/2021 at 1:33 PM, naval2006 said:

I’ve never seen or heard of a golfer who honestly and genuinely gives up the chase of improving. Not even the worst ones. The OPs rant is the golfer’s Hail Mary when in dismay. 

Agree.  I have been an 18HDCP for the last 3 years.  That means I have not improved based on my stats (although i feel like i have).  That also means that I am also trying to get better.  Feels good to get better one day,...