Playing a Par 4 in 3 shots to the green on purpose

[Lefty_3Jack]

Just seeing if any low or + handicaps do this or have done this before as a strategy off the tee?  There are 3 holes on the two courses I play most often that end up with a double or worse too often.  On two of them the holes are really tight with no bail out spaces except short.  Short enough that you cannot reach in two if you decide to take the route of absolutely keeping it in play.  Two of them are back to back 17/18 finishes and I've had multiple rounds where I came in 1-3 over par and ended up 7-10 over when I finished.  

[MelloYello]

In short, I think aiming at the front of the green for reasons of safety is acceptable but that's about it.

 

The long answer...

 

I don't think course strategy should ever turn Par-4's into Par-5's unless you're looking to take 7 or 8 out of play. What happens if your 3rd shot doesn't get very close to the hole and you end up 3-putting? Boom--you've made a 6. 

 

In my experience, every golf course has a hole or two that simply have to be faced down with good tee shots followed by smart/safe approaches. Not all the challenges of golf can be overcome with course strategy. At some point you have to simply take on the risk and hit a quality shot. One trick is to figure out exactly which clubs you should be hitting on these holes so that you can at least avoid the nervous feeling of getting to those holes without a plan. 

 

One thing I've found is that if I know what club I'm going to hit I just have to put a good swing on the ball. That's actually surprisingly easy to do. It's the lack of commitment during club selection and the nervousness people feel not knowing whether their decision is "right" that really gets in their way. 

 

Of course, if you don't hit a good tee shot, then you can try and place your recovery just short of the green and either putt or chip from that spot in hopes of getting up and down. That's about the closest thing I've seen a player do to playing it as a 3-shotter. But to me, that's just someone being smart with their approach and playing away from the no-go areas around the green. 

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Edited January 21, 2022 by MelloYello

[Paddy_2_Iron]

I do this on the longer par 4's all the time.  It saves me from blow up holes.  Depending on the hole I'll hit a 7 or 8 iron ~155 and then chip up and try to one putt for par.  I am just trying to bogey each hole, so it really comes down to your strategy.  But usually I am going for the green, 155 in I am comfortable usually hitting irons into the green.  my 6 and 5 irons are more advancement irons.  

[stryper]

Lowest score wins, right?  So whatever it takes to get there....🤷‍♂️

[mgoblue83]

I'm fine with taking less club off the tee as long as I still have a shot at the green. I'd never actually layup to where it's a 3 shot hole.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by mgoblue83

[j.b.newton]

are you 2-3 shots up on 18 at Sawgrass and just know you need a stress free bogey to win?

 

I wouldn't say turn it into a par 5, but conservative targets with safer clubs still should get you to most normal par 4's unless its a LONG one.

[NJBigFish22]

I used this approach a lot when I was trying to get to the point of constantly getting under 90.  If you play every hole as a 5 you will increase your chances to break 90.  As I got better I still use this approach on certain difficult holes.  If a hole has water short of the green and trouble behind, playing for 5 is a good option.  Eliminate double or triple. So you take a 5, you will most likely have other chances to get that stroke back.  

[Obee]

The only hole I have ever done this on is 18 at Goose Creek in a qualifier when I knew I was already in because I was 2-under through 17 and +2 was likely the number to get through (you can follow scores online).

 

Now keep in mind that I am a very short hitter for a scratch/below player, so that plays into it.

 

225 drive

150 lay-up

70 yard LW

6-foot par

 

That's how that one ended.

 

The hole is just a BEAST for short hitters in the afternoon when the wind is quartering against you.

[golfwb]

Played with a baller in highschool +4ish. He was playing an AJGA event somewhere and he said there was a hole that he had to lay up to everyday and got up and down from 60 or so yards all but one time. I think it was an island green and he would be 235 out or so.

 If he was playing a par 4 with a lay up shot, it should be acceptable for normal people too. 

[scooterhd2]

I would rarely decide that off the tee. Sometimes a bad drive or crazy weather conditions might dictate that strategy, but off the tee on a par 4 you should be thinking green in 2. 

[amace04]

*EDIT* I misread the first sentence of the first post saying + or low cappers, but I'll leave my response below for the rest mid or higher.

 

 

 

It's a good course management strategy for higher cap golfers, or just if you can't hit it that far.

 

At the end of the day, you need to make your chips and putts, regardless of whether you're on in 2 or 4.  The idea that "a 3-putt blows up this strategy" would apply regardless.  Know what else blows up a strategy?  Trying to make a hero 2nd shot you have a low chance of making.

 

The thing many golfers need to come to grips with, is that bogey is generally a good score for most.  Bogey every hole on a course and you've shot 90, which is better than most will ever shoot.

 

If you regularly have a blow-up hole on the same hole, then it's time to change your strategy.  Whether that means going for the green in 3, playing more aggressively, or something else.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by amace04

[EddieEdwards]

No I'll lay back to where I'm maxed out on my second shot into the green though.  I figure I'll at least be near the green in two with an up and down for par.

 

On a longer tight hole where I need to hit driver. I'll accept the fact that I may be punching out sideways and hitting 3 into the green.  Hopefully, I can advance it a bit on the punch out and get a wedge in. 

 

I'm a 7 so not exactly a low cap.  

[Chazb]

I have,we used to play a game called pig in our group and every three putt you had to put a dollar into the pot.

The last person who had a three putt had to pay for all the three putts so some of us would lay up on person so it would lessen the chance of three putting.

[PNWGuy]

I know a + who should have played a 7 iron through the green in the 1999 Open.

[mizuno]

I recall reading that Hogan once said if you ever saw his ball on the green in 2 at the 11th at Augusta that he had missed his shot.  Instead of taking a chance on hitting his ball in the water he would purposely miss the green to the right knowing he could chip and putt for a 4.  

 

This has even been discussed here:

 

[llewol007]

All about course management and part of that is limiting blow up holes. If you have a shot at preventing it by planning how to approach the hole, that is part of the game. Sometimes a bogey is worth just as much as birdie if it kept you from a double or even a triple bogey. 

[grm24]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:50 AM, Lefty_3Jack said:

Just seeing if any low or + handicaps do this or have done this before as a strategy off the tee?  There are 3 holes on the two courses I play most often that end up with a double or worse too often.  On two of them the holes are really tight with no bail out spaces except short.  Short enough that you cannot reach in two if you decide to take the route of absolutely keeping it in play.  Two of them are back to back 17/18 finishes and I've had multiple rounds where I came in 1-3 over par and ended up 7-10 over when I finished.  

If Hall Of Famer Billy Casper could win a US Open laying up all 4 rounds on a long par 3 at Winged Foot (he made par each round) then there is not an issue with playing a par 4 as a three shot hole and trying to make par that way.

 

Play the holes the best way you think you can make par. It's called playing smart and sound course management. 

[naval2006]

No good player will do this on purpose if they can reach the green in two (unless you need a double to win on the 18th).  But a lot of shorter seasoned players I see play some holes to get up in 3 often.  The opener at my course has water 240 yards from the tee so many super seniors play a safe second before the hazard and then they flush their short to mid irons from the 100 yrd mark.

[bluedot]

Two adages that really good players live by:

1. Sometimes, the best way to make par is not to make a double.

2. On tough par 4’s, you will make more 3’s if you play it like a par 5.
 

There is a hole (or holes) on almost every course that, depending on the drive and the pin location, “require” an approach that MIGHT end up on the green, but most importantly takes double out of play.  
 

Most of the time, this means playing short of a front pin instead of getting above the hole or shortsiding yourself, or aiming at the edge of one side of the green to take trouble on the other side out of play.

 

Most golf course architects and course superintendents know enough to build and maintain longer, more difficult holes (usually par 4’s, of course) with bail out options that leave a good chance of an up and down par.  A player that doesn’t use these options usually isn’t very good.

[EDT501]

Only if I put myself in a situation off the tee that requires a punch-out or similar recovery shot. I have never encountered a par 4 that I thought best played as a 3 shot hole. Frankly, I rarely encounter 3 shot par 5's either. That is not to say I won't play conservatively (aiming at the fat part of a green, choosing my shot to suit the best miss, etc.), but never have I encountered a par 4 where I stood on the tee and planned it out as a 3 shot-er. I made a quick decision tree and it looks like on a long par 4 with water on one side and OB on the other I'd be about half a stroke better off on average taking driver and an iron in than trying the three shot approach. 

 

If you are encountering that situation, I think you're probably playing tees too far back or are playing an incredibly penal course with unpleasant frequency. People also underestimate the amount of mistakes you can make even taking a 5 iron off the tee.

[LeftDaddy]

On 1/21/2022 at 9:29 AM, MelloYello said:

In short, I think aiming at the front of the green for reasons of safety is acceptable but that's about it.

 

The long answer...

 

I don't think course strategy should ever turn Par-4's into Par-5's unless you're looking to take 7 or 8 out of play. What happens if your 3rd shot doesn't get very close to the hole and you end up 3-putting? Boom--you've made a 6. 

 

In my experience, every golf course has a hole or two that simply have to be faced down with good tee shots followed by smart/safe approaches. Not all the challenges of golf can be overcome with course strategy. At some point you have to simply take on the risk and hit a quality shot. One trick is to figure out exactly which clubs you should be hitting on these holes so that you can at least avoid the nervous feeling of getting to those holes without a plan. 

 

One thing I've found is that if I know what club I'm going to hit I just have to put a good swing on the ball. That's actually surprisingly easy to do. It's the lack of commitment during club selection and the nervousness people feel not knowing whether their decision is "right" that really gets in their way. 

 

Of course, if you don't hit a good tee shot, then you can try and place your recovery just short of the green and either putt or chip from that spot in hopes of getting up and down. That's about the closest thing I've seen a player do to playing it as a 3-shotter. But to me, that's just someone being smart with their approach and playing away from the no-go areas around the green. 

.

+1,000 on this!

 

I’ve studied course management way more than I care to admit. I’ve even done this strategy of laying up on a tough par 4 (played an entire round like this), to try it out. 
 

It is a sucker’s play. Golfers only look backward and say to themselves “I could have laid up there instead of going for it. Would have been a bogey at worst”, or, they see the holes where they missed the green short but chipped up and made par or bogey and thought “why don’t I do this all the time”. What you don’t see are the fractional strokes you lose every time you make that decision. And/or, the flubbed chip or missed approach from 60 yards that then leads to double or worse anyway. 
 

Prime example…my home course has a par 4 that requires between a 230 and 250 yard carry to reach dry land (depending on the line you take). I’ve hit many a ball in that creek, and so I started coming up with every strategy I could to avoid having to face that shot. The trouble was, it didn’t work. Even those layup shots required commitment and decent golf shots.  I’d still make poor scores. And heck, I still had to carry the creek with an iron on the second shot (which I missed occasionally also). I started to think that if I just have to nut up and hit a good shot anyway, might as well do it with driver.  Once I removed my doubt about the right shot, my results started to improve dramatically. 
 

At the end of the day, this is what course management boils down to also. It almost doesn’t matter what shot you choose (as long as it isn’t stupid), the trick is to commit to it fully once you’ve made the decision. 
 

Last point here…sure, if after your tee ball you are faced with an approach shot that you aren’t sure you can pull off (or even if your tee ball requires a shot you aren’t sure you can pull off), then you shouldn’t attempt that shot. Not necessarily because you shouldn’t take on the risk, but because you either aren’t capable of it or aren’t committed to it…either of which is bad. 

[Abh159]

I think a lot of it has to do with mindset. To me, there is a big difference in playing to avoid a big number vs playing to score well.

 

If you have to hit an absolutely perfect shot to get it on the green, then laying up might be the smart choice. However, if you're laying up just because you are worried you won't hit a good shot then that is the wrong way of going about it.

 

If I ever find myself at address over the ball and the thought of "what happens if I mishit this" pops into my head then I back off and try to regroup.