Hard sand - bunker shot

[Hackinator]

How do you hit out of a bunker with hard sand..

 

Do you play like a chip shot... I had 3 of these over the weekend, and everyone flew 10 to 20 yards longer than I wanted even though I tried opening the face of sw as much as I possibly could.  All three holes cost my a bunch of strokes it was so aggravating.

 

Is there any advice on this?

 

 

 

 

[ShortGolfer]

Have you considered your penalty options?  If you chunked a chip shot into a bunker from a great lie, why not take a stroke and distance penalty and replay the shot?

A 2019 rule change allows you to  take a two shot penalty and drop the ball out the back of the bunker.

[Hackinator]

I have never heard of that rule.      I hope to never need to use that one, but you never know.

 

 

[Sean124]

Lots of bunkers like this in Arizona. You want the leading edge to dig a bit. Opening the face and exposing the bounce just skips the club into the ball. 

 

Low bounce 58 or 60, square face, hit 1/2” behind the ball. Swing only slightly harder than a chip/pitch of the same distance. 
 

 

[ericz]

I get a lot of these at courses I play where the sand is really compacted or almost no-existent. You can't hit a standard bunker shot here. I treat it like a chip from a really tight lie. I like my low bounce 60 degree in this situation. Key is you don't have to hit it hard.

 

Edit: Don't open the face.

Edited May 24, 2022 by ericz

[Hackinator]

1 minute ago, Sean124 said:

Lots of bunkers like this in Arizona. You want the leading edge to dig a bit. Opening the face and exposing the bounce just skips the club into the ball. 

 

Low bounce 58 or 60, square face, hit 1/2” behind the ball. Swing only slightly harder than a chip/pitch of the same distance. 
 

 

 

Yep, makes sense. 

 

I was using a full swing but my mindset was that I would open the face so much so the ball wouldn't travel too far if I didn't get much sand.

Unfortunately this is a dicey way to make this shot.

 

I know in the past, I tried a chipping motion, and it worked pretty well on hard sand.

But I sort of forgot about that during the tourney.  😞

 

 

 

 

[Hackinator]

2 minutes ago, ericz said:

I get a lot of these at courses I play where the sand is really compacted or almost no-existent. You can't hit a standard bunker shot here. I treat it like a chip from a really tight lie. I like my low bounce 60 degree in this situation. Key is you don't have to hit it hard.

 

Edit: Don't open the face.

 

Thanks, yes this definitely sounds like the way to go.

 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

Besides lessening the bounce and almost squaring up the clubface I still swing as if hitting out of softer sand.  The key, for me, is driving the club into the sand behind the ball, with force, so it does not bounce/glance off the hardpacked sand.

[Double Mocha Man]

4 minutes ago, Hackinator said:

I treat it like a chip from a really tight lie.

 

But any chip, even with a 64 degree wedge, becomes problematic if the face of the bunker is tall.

[ericz]

Just now, Double Mocha Man said:

 

But any chip, even with a 64 degree wedge, becomes problematic if the face of the bunker is tall.

 

Very true. That's why I use the most lofted club I have, and then I pray it's enough to get over the lip!

[mukster]

12 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Besides lessening the bounce and almost squaring up the clubface I still swing as if hitting out of softer sand.  The key, for me, is driving the club into the sand behind the ball, with force, so it does not bounce/glance off the hardpacked sand.

Our bunkers all but lose their sand in the winter with all the rain. I use a 58° with low loft and do exactly this. I have also chipped when the lip is low and the shot allows it. 

[jobin]

Many sand wedges have massive bounce soles which are exactly what you do NOT need in a hard packed bunker. The big fat sole resists entering the sand and skims the surface which means the ball flies unpredictably, to your dismay.

 

Try a wedge with much less bounce, maybe the 50*. Have some practice coz many guys are pre-set to fail regardless of the sand, the time of day, the tourney rules etc.

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, ShortGolfer said:

1) Have you considered your penalty options?  If you chunked a chip shot into a bunker from a great lie, why not take a stroke and distance penalty and replay the shot?

 

2) A 2019 rule change allows you to  take a two shot penalty and drop the ball out the back of the bunker.

 

50 minutes ago, Hackinator said:

I have never heard of that rule.      I hope to never need to use that one, but you never know.

 

Just to expand on that a bit, you can ALWAYS use stroke-and-distance for a 1 shot penalty, no matter where the ball is.

 

But if you're in a bunker, usually in a place/lie you don't think you can get out of without a lot more trouble, e.g. embedded in the sand directly under the front lip, you can now (as SG said, since 2019) take it out of the bunker for a 2 shot penalty, "back-on-the-line" - dropping in a relief area outside the bunker keeping the spot where the ball was directly between the flag and where your relief point is.

[mikpga]

Close the face…

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Is all the sand you play in firm? I would open the face a lot less, otherwise you will bounce into the ball. And my entry point would be much closer. If there is no sand at all it gets tough.

[naj959]

Square face or even slightly closed is really the only adjustment you need. You can still hit behind the ball like a normal bunker shot and the square face will allow the wedge to dig into the hard sand and pop it out on a nice cushion. I used to struggle with these types of bunkers until an old guy I play with told me to keep the face square and let the wedge do the work. Once you understand that you need the club to dig to get the same contact as a normal bunker shot it gets much easier. 

[DaveMc82]

Aim further left and get the handle higher than usual. Play it like a pitch and aim to get the toe down and under the ball.

 

If you need to get it up and over a lip you can use a butterfly grip to lock the top hand wrist into extension and fire the toe under the ball. Pro who taught me this technique had me hitting flops off of a wooden board with my 56 wedge with 14 degrees of bounce. 

[Valtiel]

I'm not going to disagree with anyone here since this is just based on my personal experience, but i've never seen anyone do anything with a more square or even shut face in a bunker that didn't end in tragedy, regardless of the sand consistency. I treat hard sand mostly the same as soft sand, I simply get a little more weight forward and get steeper and a little faster while trying to hit slightly closer to the ball, otherwise the club face is still open and i'm still using tons of bounce. 

Squaring up the club face and trying to get the club to dig just seems like a recipe for inconsistency. Once the club digs it wants to stop, and 9 times out of 10 that is how folks end up leaving it in the bunker. Then if they adjust by keeping their speed up enough to resist that stop but catch too little sand or a bit of ball then you're sending it 20y over the green. If the intention is to still keep sand between the club and ball like a normal bunker shot then you need the club moving quickly and smoothly through the sand. If the sand is literally nonexistent then its a hardpan chip shot, but i've personally run into very few bunkers actually like this, and the ones that are are literally clay. 

[sprcoop]

19 hours ago, Sean124 said:

Lots of bunkers like this in Arizona. You want the leading edge to dig a bit. Opening the face and exposing the bounce just skips the club into the ball. 

 

Low bounce 58 or 60, square face, hit 1/2” behind the ball. Swing only slightly harder than a chip/pitch of the same distance. 
 

 

 

^^^^^ This x 100.  Public courses in Tucson are the same way.  Like hitting off a dirt road. 

 

My practice motion is straight down, no doubt the leading edge (56 degree) is going to bite. 

 

Like Sean said.  Barely faster than chipping speed.

[ezpz]

Either experiment with square face or lower hands. Low expectations, just get it out and putt twice -> go next hole. Would be problematic to pop this out high though.

[596]

Here's a tip I got from our pro.  I had 3 of these shots when playing with him at our course. We have hard sand, especially after a rain.  I sculled them all.  He's stepped into the bunker...

 

1. Set up as a normal bunker shot.

2. Close the face as much as 30*

3. Hit a normal sand shot without manipulating the face. Don't even think about it 

 

The toe will dig in first. Opening the face naturally after it enters the hard sand. Sliding under the ball. Ball pops clean out of the bunker with height.  Don't ask me how it comes out so high, but it does.  Works every time.  This also works perfectly for buried lies.  

[scooterhd2]

Square face. Try to hit a draw instead of a cut. 

[me05501]

For this reason I like having different bounces on the two highest-lofted wedges in my bag.

 

My 55* sand wedge has a medium bounce that works well out of fluffy sand. My 588 has a low bounce and a sharp leading edge for cutting into compacted sand. 

[BadbeatJay]

50 minutes ago, me05501 said:

For this reason I like having different bounces on the two highest-lofted wedges in my bag.

 

My 55* sand wedge has a medium bounce that works well out of fluffy sand. My 588 has a low bounce and a sharp leading edge for cutting into compacted sand. 

That's an idea. 

How do they differ when hitting from the fairway?

[me05501]

17 minutes ago, BadbeatJay said:

That's an idea. 

How do they differ when hitting from the fairway?

I don’t notice any difference on full swings. When chipping near the green I’m thinking mostly about how much I want the ball to roll out, but if the lie is really tight I’ll go with the lower bounce wedge. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by me05501

[BadbeatJay]

21 minutes ago, me05501 said:

I don’t notice any difference on full swings. When chipping near the green I’m thinking mostly about how much I want the ball to roll out, but if the lie is really tight I’ll go with the lower bounce wedge. 

 

I have a terrible time in the sand. I might think about this

 

No one has taught me about the functions of bounce.

I.E. when do you need it vs not?

 

I didnt look at bounce when i grabbed my wedges. Just the degree lofts. 

 

So tight lies, use less bounce and hit the ball crisply?

also compact sand, use less bounce, hit closer to the ball but still behind the ball in the sand or hit the ball like a tight lie?

 

 

 

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

Might try this, works for me in wet/hard sand....our course has firmly packed, and often wet white quartz sand...

 

Normal sand I use a more "V" shaped swing, hit behind the ball couple inches

 

Wet/hard sand, I use a "U" shaped swing mainly using shoulders, hit just behind the ball, takes a longer shallow 'divot' and comes out spinning like a mofo

[me05501]

56 minutes ago, BadbeatJay said:

 

I have a terrible time in the sand. I might think about this

 

No one has taught me about the functions of bounce.

I.E. when do you need it vs not?

 

I didnt look at bounce when i grabbed my wedges. Just the degree lofts. 

 

So tight lies, use less bounce and hit the ball crisply?

also compact sand, use less bounce, hit closer to the ball but still behind the ball in the sand or hit the ball like a tight lie?

 

 

 

 

Bounce is whatever part of the sole of the club that sits lower than the leading edge.  It helps the club glide through or on top of whatever you're hitting from (turf, sand, hardpan, a mat or whatever). 

 

There's some amount of bounce on every modern wedge and iron.

 

Generally on a full iron or wedge shot you want the shaft leaning a little toward the target at impact to the bounce isn't doing much. But when you need it you can execute a different kind of shot with the shaft more upright which "reveals" the bounce to the ground and prevents the club from digging. 

 

For a typical sand shot where the sand is dry and a bit fluffy, the bounce helps the club slide under the ball at a predictable depth in the sand and come out the other side. Without the bounce you'd have to be much more precise. With it, you can let the club enter the sand an inch or two behind the ball and exit an inch or two after it and the ball just jumps out with the sliver of sand you carved out with your wedge. If you try the same thing without much bounce the club head can dig in more than you want and wreck the shot. 

 

You can play a lot of short game shots using the same technique. Check out Monte's "Use the Bounce" video series for some great info on this technique. 

 

The bounce on a wedge is arced across the sole so you can open up the face and bring more of the bounce into play. Alternately you can close down the face to keep the bounce out of a shot where it might interfere. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by me05501

[Barfolomew]

Definitely takes skill as these are tougher shots specially when you're not used to them.

 

Easy to have club bounce off sand and skull ball way over green or into lip of bunker, been there done that... 🦘

[CasualLie]

Assuming you have a good bunker technique to begin with, there is not a lot of adjustment for hard packed / think sand.  True, what others mentioned you cannot be using the same amount of bounce because it will "bounce" off the hard sand and blade into the ball.  But setup the same for everything, except put a little more weight forward.  This will help you come in a little bit steeper and negate some of the bounce.  Less speed, and that's it.  A little steeper to drive down, smooth that tempo, you do not need a lot of speed.  And naturally your follow though should be abbreviated.

 

Biggest mistake I see on these shots is way too much speed.  Some of you with over active trail arms might want to try as you come into impact squeeze the pinky and index fingers on the lead hand to stop the momentum.  Takes some practice to get the timing right but it will stop that tail arm/hand doing crazy stuff.