Ranger behavior

[towncrier]

Hello friends.  Haven’t been on this forum for some time.  Sorry that this topic has probably been discussed ad infinitum.  I’m still trying to remove the stench from a 5 hour round yesterday.  Highlights: when we asked the ranger to say something to the group in front that had created 1.5 open holes in front of them (after just 5 holes), he came back and said he timed them and they were ‘normal’.  when we questioned why he would time them on a par 3, we heard the stupidest statement ever from a ranger: “par 3’s always take longer to play”.  I have already submitted a review for the course but I’m still thinking/questioning/pondering… ….shouldn’t a good ranger be focusing on the later holes?  and resolving any issues back there if there are open holes/slow players.  Then continuing to make his way forward.  Make sense ?  why do I constantly see the rangers on the front side; smack dab right in the middle of the total log-jam?  they certainly can’t make any improvement there, can they ?   

[mshills]

The question is if the group in front of you was keeping up with the group in front of them, that is the only thing that matters.

[2bGood]

3 hours ago, mshills said:

The question is if the group in front of you was keeping up with the group in front of them, that is the only thing that matters.

Not always. If you keep up with the group in front of you, you will always be on pace... but many clubs/courses have a  pace standard. You may not keep up to the group in front, but still be playing on pace. 

 

An example - my club is pretty much walking only and we have a few groups that like to play around 2hours as a foursome. They send guys to tee off while others putt out, pick up all short putts etc. It is more just exercise with some golf mixed in. They like it, but I like to play 'normal'.

 

Our group plays in around 3:15-3:30 if we are in the early morning slot. We have zero chance of keeping up with the group ahead and still playing regular golf, but come in under the expected pace of 3:30. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by 2bGood

[jholz]

You are always taking your chances when engaging a ranger. Many are volunteers - so they aren't going to make too much of a stink.

 

Sometimes you get a cowboy. They have a tendency to ruin the round for everyone.

 

In the end, accept what you get and enjoy a day on the course. Gotta look on the bright side.

Edited June 24, 2022 by jholz

[Abh159]

5 minutes ago, jholz said:

You are always taking your chances when engaging a ranger. Many are volunteers - so they aren't going to make too much of a stink.

 

Sometimes you get a cowboy. They have a tendency to ruin the round for everyone.

 

Totally agree with these comments. You have to look at Rangers the same way you look at the "Greeters" at Wal-Mart.

 

A lot of times they are retired people simply looking to get out of the house. They may smile and wave, but they aren't going to stop a shoplifter 😉.

 

[davep043]

I am always impressed when someone thinks they know how to do a job that they've never done.  None of us know what training this ranger has had, or how his employers have told him to do his job.  As someone else said, its quite possible that after 5 holes they were on the "time par" the course had defined, so is doing exactly what management wants him to do.  

2 hours ago, towncrier said:

shouldn’t a good ranger be focusing on the later holes?

In my opinion, and I've never done this job either, if a Ranger can identify a "problem group" on the front nine, they may be able to minimize disruptions to pace before they get too great.  If the Ranger waits to talk to anyone until hole 15, its too late to have much of an effect.  

Rangers have a tough job.  Anyone who gets asked to speed up will complain that they're being unfairly targeted.  Anyone why has to wait will complain about waiting.

[trilerian]

1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

Not always. If you keep up with the group in front of you, you will always be on pace... but many clubs/courses have a  pace standard. You may not keep up to the group in front, but still be playing on pace. 

 

An example - my club is pretty much walking only and we have a few groups that like to play around 2hours as foursome. They send guys to tee off while others putt out, pick up all short putts etc. It more just exercise with some golf mixed in. They like it, but I like to play 'normal'.

 

Our group plays in around 3:15-3:30 if we are in the early morning slot. We have zero chance of keeping up with the group ahead and still playing regular golf, but come in under the expected pace of 3:30. 

 

How long is your course? Hilly, flat?  I'm just curious as my group (we walk) takes about 4 hrs for a foursome.  We have quite a few hills, but we don't dawdle. We are constantly moving, really only stopping when someone is hitting, not practicing, but hitting.  We play ready golf.  The only thing we could do to go faster, is the older guys in my group don't continuous putt.  They'll mark their 2-3 footers and wait their turn.  I always find it interesting to read about foursomes who can finish right around 3 hours.  I mean we can do it on 6000 yard courses that are flat and the next tee box is next to the green you just walked off of.  

[mshills]

1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

Not always. If you keep up with the group in front of you, you will always be on pace... but many clubs/courses have a  pace standard. You may not keep up to the group in front, but still be playing on pace. 

 

An example - my club is pretty much walking only and we have a few groups that like to play around 2hours as foursome. They send guys to tee off while others putt out, pick up all short putts etc. It more just exercise with some golf mixed in. They like it, but I like to play 'normal'.

 

Our group plays in around 3:15-3:30 if we are in the early morning slot. We have zero chance of keeping up with the group ahead and still playing regular golf, but come in under the expected pace of 3:30. 

 

Understood and agreed.  What you are describing above in bold is speed golf, not golf, and I'm not going to keep up with a group playing that way.  I like to walk too, and I cannot walk 18 holes even as a twosome in two hours!

[Abh159]

3 minutes ago, mshills said:

 

Understood and agreed.  What you are describing above in bold is speed golf, not golf, and I'm not going to keep up with a group playing that way.  I like to walk too, and I cannot walk 18 holes even as a twosome in two hours!

 

Agreed! Rushing around the course just to try and finish as quickly as possible does not sound like an enjoyable experience. 

[Cliffy2020]

One of the courses I play is ALL about pace of play!  It’s everywhere.  You can’t hide from it.  It’s posted, it’s announced regularly, you’re told when you check in, pop-ups on the GPS screen.  Guys monitoring you from the clubhouse and marshals sent out for enforcement.   Fast play is fun play because nobody wants to play a 5hr round of golf!  It can get a little intense.  Here’s a shot of the scorecard. The rangers/marshals are trained professionals.  They are polite but firm.

[golfwb]

Its annoying but slow groups do happen and like the others said I have never actually seen a ranger do their job affectively to people who need to know what they are doing wrong, some people say I payed for a round and I will play at the pace i choose. 

We have a cowboy ranger at our course that the power has gone to his head and stays on us about keeping up with the group ahead in our little 6 group bubble when our last group has a 2 hole gap behind them 

Edited June 24, 2022 by golfwb

[2bGood]

8 hours ago, trilerian said:

 

How long is your course? Hilly, flat?  I'm just curious as my group (we walk) takes about 4 hrs for a foursome.  We have quite a few hills, but we don't dawdle. We are constantly moving, really only stopping when someone is hitting, not practicing, but hitting.  We play ready golf.  The only thing we could do to go faster, is the older guys in my group don't continuous putt.  They'll mark their 2-3 footers and wait their turn.  I always find it interesting to read about foursomes who can finish right around 3 hours.  I mean we can do it on 6000 yard courses that are flat and the next tee box is next to the green you just walked off of.  

We play from 6500. Not very hilly, and tee box's near to greens. It is 100 years old course so designed to be walked. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by 2bGood

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, Abh159 said:

 

Agreed! Rushing around the course just to try and finish as quickly as possible does not sound like an enjoyable experience. 

It is all relative thing. I say enjoy golf the way you want to enjoy as long as it does not effect others. I play with some guys that the like the idea 4:45min rounds. To me that seems painfully slow most of the time, but I have to admit, out on a resort course on vacation with a few drinks it is not so bad. 

 

 

[ArtMBgolf]

Not many courses have rangers now. 
If a group is on the course's time pace, it's got to be for the holes played, not on one hole,
where they may have hit good shots.     
 
If a group is on a course's 4:00 or 4:30 time pace, a good ranger can still work with them to 
let a faster group through, especially if the course is open ahead.    Although if only 1 hole is open, 
the ranger could ask them to close the gap.      I play with some sub 4 hour golfers and they are 
always crying about pace.  
  
It's OK to ranger the last few holes, because a lot of golfers forget about pace on the last 3 holes 
or so and screw around, hit extra shots, etc or are tired.       

[tatertot]

Interesting situation today ...

 

Played a Country Club I don't belong to as a single, because my course was packed and my buddies are all nursing injuries (we're old).

 

On the 4th fairway ... behind a 4some, waiting on every shot ... not a big deal, I'm in no hurry and it's a beautiful day ... but there are obviously 3-4 holes open in front of them. 3some right on my tail. The two groups obviously know each other. I'm walking, the 2 groups are both riding. One guy from the group behind me drives around me to the group on the green. I hear him tell the group ahead of me to let me thru ... voices get raised, the group says they're playing best ball and are playing plenty fast. The other guy says it doesn't matter, they're holding me up, get their butts out of the way at the next tee. He leaves, everyone is angry (except me, who didn't care either way). He stops by and apologized on his way back to the tee.

 

Moral of the story (if there is one) ... just have some clue what's going on around you. I was literally around the group in front of me in less than 5 minutes. They could have cleaned their balls in the time I teed off and got out of their way. They finished the front 9 about 20 minutes after I did. Sometimes its staying ahead of the group behind you ... sometimes its staying with the group ahead of you ... sometimes it's just knowing your surroundings and thinking about someone other than yourself. And remember, NOBODY thinks they're slow. We ALL make excuses on why people are playing faster than us - they're not putting out, they're running, they're playing speed golf, blah, blah, blah - I've been called the turtle and the hare, some people just play faster than others. 

[RSinSG]

13 hours ago, davep043 said:

I am always impressed when someone thinks they know how to do a job that they've never done.  None of us know what training this ranger has had

One of the Marshals on a course I play spends most of his shift fishing balls from the lake. He has a retriever that must be 30 feet long. 

 

I never call the pro shop on pace of play issues. I do call when I see non-golfer morons walking on the cart paths like its a beautiful park for them to enjoy. One course I play is adjacent to city bike/hiking trails and when the cart path goes over a public road the bike trail is the same a** then cart path. People get confused and end up walking on the course which of course is dangerous. Sometimes the Marshal makes it to them in time, mostly not. TBH I'm not sure what their job specs are and what training they receive. 

[tatertot]

13 minutes ago, RSinSG said:

One of the Marshals on a course I play spends most of his shift fishing balls from the lake. He has a retriever that must be 30 feet long. 

 

I never call the pro shop on pace of play issues. I do call when I see non-golfer morons walking on the cart paths like its a beautiful park for them to enjoy. One course I play is adjacent to city bike/hiking trails and when the cart path goes over a public road the bike trail is the same a** then cart path. People get confused and end up walking on the course which of course is dangerous. Sometimes the Marshal makes it to them in time, mostly not. TBH I'm not sure what their job specs are and what training they receive. 

Training? Pretty sure it goes something like this ...

 

"Here are the keys to the ranger cart"

 

"So, you want me to drive around for 4 hours with the flag up, avoiding golfers as much as I can and never making eye contact ... and yet making sure to drive through fairways just as groups are teeing off so they have to wait for me?"

 

"Yes."

 

"And if I do this 3 days a week, I get all the free golf I want?"

 

"Also yes."

 

"Cool!"

[JJFWebster]

My last round, on our more elevated course, was with walkers who struggled to keep pace. We were behind after the 3rd hole and I was team managing bunkers, tee order, ball retrieval, pitch repairs and general sense of urgency for the remainder of the round. They were a nice couple but it really surprised me to hear they played 3 times a week. Being over a hole behind didn't bother them in the slightest and they didn't bat an eye when I mentioned it.

 

We finished in 4:20, on a weekday morning. Course average is under 4 at that time of day. Not terrible but it cost me a couple strokes, no snacks on the turn, and playing team caddy for 15 holes. 😅 The groups behind pressed us the entire way. It's amazing what 2 people can do to the ~70 behind them. I definitely would've appreciated a crotchety ranger that day.

[Augster]

I’ll never understand slow play rants. The only time it’s appropriate is when you are trying to get more than 18 in. I’ve had plenty of 36, 54, and 63 hole days. You can’t do that with slow play. 
 

But if you’re only playing 18, what is the hurry? Hurry up so we can be done playing golf? When I’m on the course, there is NOTHING I’m going to do the rest of the day that is going to be as fun as playing golf. So why rush?

 

How about, the next time you folks are on the course, you take some time and enjoy being out there. Do that instead of rushing through the round trying to “get it over with” as fast as you can. 
 

If you’re really that pressed for time, play 9 holes. Play 13 holes. 15 holes. What is the difference? You aren’t going to enjoy the remaining holes after your “personal time par” is exceeded anyway. Just leave. The folks behind you will appreciate it. 
 

Or, do as I do, and just enjoy every minute you’re out there. Whether that’s a quick 2.5 hour round, or a 5.5 hour slog. At some point, either the game will pass you by and it won’t be any fun anymore so you’ll quit, or your health will fail you and you won’t be able to play anymore. You certainly aren’t going to play golf better than you are right now, that’s how age works, so enjoy every minute. Eventually, you won’t be able to play, or you’ll never play to your current skill level.
 

So just enjoy it. 
 

 

[caniac6]

The course I used to belong to had a reachable par 5 for the second hole. One guy used to call the pro shop to complain about slow plat if he had to wait to hit his tee shot . This would have him complaining for the next 16 holes.

[mshills]

9 hours ago, tatertot said:

Interesting situation today ...

 

Played a Country Club I don't belong to as a single, because my course was packed and my buddies are all nursing injuries (we're old).

 

On the 4th fairway ... behind a 4some, waiting on every shot ... not a big deal, I'm in no hurry and it's a beautiful day ... but there are obviously 3-4 holes open in front of them. 3some right on my tail. The two groups obviously know each other. I'm walking, the 2 groups are both riding. One guy from the group behind me drives around me to the group on the green. I hear him tell the group ahead of me to let me thru ... voices get raised, the group says they're playing best ball and are playing plenty fast. The other guy says it doesn't matter, they're holding me up, get their butts out of the way at the next tee. He leaves, everyone is angry (except me, who didn't care either way). He stops by and apologized on his way back to the tee.

 

Moral of the story (if there is one) ... just have some clue what's going on around you. I was literally around the group in front of me in less than 5 minutes. They could have cleaned their balls in the time I teed off and got out of their way. They finished the front 9 about 20 minutes after I did. Sometimes its staying ahead of the group behind you ... sometimes its staying with the group ahead of you ... sometimes it's just knowing your surroundings and thinking about someone other than yourself. And remember, NOBODY thinks they're slow. We ALL make excuses on why people are playing faster than us - they're not putting out, they're running, they're playing speed golf, blah, blah, blah - I've been called the turtle and the hare, some people just play faster than others. 

The best thing to do here — pair the single with the group of three. A single sandwiched between four in front and three behind can suck for everyone. For me it’s not about how long the round takes, but getting a nice cadence / rhythm for the round, and four / one / three makes it hard.  

[RSinSG]

6 hours ago, Augster said:

I’ll never understand slow play rants. The only time it’s appropriate is when you are trying to get more than 18 in. I’ve had plenty of 36, 54, and 63 hole days. You can’t do that with slow play. 
 

But if you’re only playing 18, what is the hurry? Hurry up so we can be done playing golf? When I’m on the course, there is NOTHING I’m going to do the rest of the day that is going to be as fun as playing golf. So why rush?

 

How about, the next time you folks are on the course, you take some time and enjoy being out there. Do that instead of rushing through the round trying to “get it over with” as fast as you can. 
 

If you’re really that pressed for time, play 9 holes. Play 13 holes. 15 holes. What is the difference? You aren’t going to enjoy the remaining holes after your “personal time par” is exceeded anyway. Just leave. The folks behind you will appreciate it. 
 

Or, do as I do, and just enjoy every minute you’re out there. Whether that’s a quick 2.5 hour round, or a 5.5 hour slog. At some point, either the game will pass you by and it won’t be any fun anymore so you’ll quit, or your health will fail you and you won’t be able to play anymore. You certainly aren’t going to play golf better than you are right now, that’s how age works, so enjoy every minute. Eventually, you won’t be able to play, or you’ll never play to your current skill level.
 

So just enjoy it. 
 

 

I’m guessing like me you’re on the senior side of the age spectrum. For the most part I have the attitude regarding a slow pace because being retired playing golf is what I have planned for the day. That, and then eating a late lunch while sitting in a soft recliner.

 

But when I was a younger, busier man raising a bunch of kids my golf time was usually sandwiched between other commitments and a long round due to slow play made it hard to play. I understand why it’s a big deal to others.

 

That being said, a few years ago I was playing in a 4 day event in Las Vegas in August. Very hot and one of the days it had rained in the AM and was still drizzling when we teed off so it was cart path only. A full field walking from their cart to their ball every shot in oppressive heat and humidity.  That was a 6+ hour round and it was brutal. No much could be done about it, but I got pretty whiny and all the joy of playing golf was sucked out of me.

[betarhoalphadelta]

6 hours ago, Augster said:

Or, do as I do, and just enjoy every minute you’re out there. Whether that’s a quick 2.5 hour round, or a 5.5 hour slog. At some point, either the game will pass you by and it won’t be any fun anymore so you’ll quit, or your health will fail you and you won’t be able to play anymore. You certainly aren’t going to play golf better than you are right now, that’s how age works, so enjoy every minute. Eventually, you won’t be able to play, or you’ll never play to your current skill level.
 

So just enjoy it. 
 

 

I play public courses, on weekends, in Southern California. Which means tee sheets FULLY packed from dawn until super twilight. Course is never empty. 

 

I understand that the pace of the round is out of my control, and I am somewhat zen about longer rounds.

 

That said, it's incumbent on every group on a busy course to ensure they're keeping up with the pace. Anyone not keeping up with the group in front of them is at fault for ruining it for everyone behind them. In those cases, it SHOULD be the ranger's job to make sure that those slower groups keep up. 

 

Nobody can play faster than the group in front of them, but there's no excuse for playing slower and leaving a gap. 

 

8 minutes ago, RSinSG said:

 

But when I was a younger, busier man raising a bunch of kids my golf time was usually sandwiched between other commitments and a long round due to slow play made it hard to play. I understand why it’s a big deal to others.

 

 

Yeah, I don't have the situation where golf is the only thing I plan to do in a day. I like to get out early on a weekend morning, play [and enjoy] my round of golf, and then may have other things planned. 

 

I expect the courses I play to have a pace. It's different for every course. I regularly play a par-60, 3670 yard course. Despite being mostly par 3's and an "executive" course (which usually attracts less capable players), we can usually get around in 3:30-3:45 walking. More of the regulation length courses I play, it's about 4:30 to get around. There's some wiggle room there, but if the exec course takes >4:30, or a regulation course takes >5:00, I'm probably waiting on a lot of tee boxes and in a lot of fairways, and that disrupts the flow of the game. 

[scomac2002]

Being a ranger is a thankless job.  There's no pay.  You work for golfing privileges.  I did it for over 10 years.

 

There was some basic training provided before the opening of the season, but that had more to do with medical emergencies, appropriateness of conduct and the general expectations of management.  The only training in dealing with customers and slow play issues was what you figured out on the fly.

 

Without fail, I would run into a hot head at least once a year.  These were never pleasant.  A few got written up over the years.  Makes a guy ask himself why he would ever volunteer for such abuse just for a few rounds of free golf.

 

Pace of play issues, you go backwards looking for the problem group and try and get them to speed up.  If that doesn't work, or it's just a slow day I've told the complainers to go to the clubhouse and ask for a raincheck because it's not going to get any better.

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by scomac2002

[dvq9654]

7 hours ago, Augster said:

But if you’re only playing 18, what is the hurry? Hurry up so we can be done playing golf? When I’m on the course, there is NOTHING I’m going to do the rest of the day that is going to be as fun as playing golf. So why rush?

 

How about, the next time you folks are on the course, you take some time and enjoy being out there. Do that instead of rushing through the round trying to “get it over with” as fast as you can.
 

 

 

While I agree with this sentiment, I don't think it fully considers one goal of golf for many, which is to score well. Personally, and I know this is the case for many of my friends and I'm sure others as well, my game suffers massively when each and every shot is delayed. Part of it is physical, but part of it is mental. There is nothing worse than hitting a great drive, walking up to your ball and having to wait an excessive amount of time to hit your next shot. We can debate what excessive is, and it certainly differs for everyone, but most people will be impacted when a round begins to drag on well past a reasonable pace specific to a course (e.g., 4 hours and your local, flat muni). Alternatively, there is nothing better than being one of the first off, playing at a normal pace (i.e., not fast), getting into the groove and building on each and every shot you hit. That's truly enjoyable in my book and allows you to have the best of both worlds. 

 

Overall, I think pace of play generally comes down to a lack of awareness or concern for others. A lack of awareness is more forgivable, but those who genuinely don't care they are holding up an entire golf course because they are on their own schedule are the ones who frustrate me most. They also tend to be the ones who react most negatively when asked to play faster or if it's ok to play through. To each their own, and if you prefer to play slow that's fine, but at least be aware of how your actions are impacting others and be willing to be flexible (e.g., let others play through or speed up when told to do so) so we can all enjoy the game. 

 

But back to the question at hand -the ranger should have told that group to speed up based on the facts you provided. Unfortunately, as others have said, unless a course makes pace of play a priority and communicates this to the marshal, you probably won't get much more out of the marshal than you did.  

[mrshinsa]

On 6/24/2022 at 8:26 AM, Cliffy2020 said:

One of the courses I play is ALL about pace of play!  It’s everywhere.  You can’t hide from it.  It’s posted, it’s announced regularly, you’re told when you check in, pop-ups on the GPS screen.  Guys monitoring you from the clubhouse and marshals sent out for enforcement.   Fast play is fun play because nobody wants to play a 5hr round of golf!  It can get a little intense.  Here’s a shot of the scorecard. The rangers/marshals are trained professionals.  They are polite but firm.

 

All courses have a recommended pace of play. 

Now whether the players follow them or the course enforces them is another question.

 

As for that course, we played there couple of months ago.

Never saw a single ranger, and the greens were a $hit show.

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by mrshinsa

[Cliffy2020]

6 hours ago, mrshinsa said:

 

All courses have a recommended pace of play. 

Now whether the players follow them or the course enforces them is another question.

 

As for that course, we played there couple of months ago.

Never saw a single ranger, and the greens were a $hit show.

 

Definitely not the same course.  Looks like some baked out AZ course.  

[mrshinsa]

2 hours ago, Cliffy2020 said:

Definitely not the same course.  Looks like some baked out AZ course.  

You better zoom into the picture and look at the flag.

That's the first par 3.   Hole #2 I think?

 

Still not convinced?  Pm me and I'll send you the tournament score, as well as picture from #1 and #10.

Edited June 26, 2022 by mrshinsa

[JimmyC59]

17 hours ago, Augster said:

I’ll never understand slow play rants. The only time it’s appropriate is when you are trying to get more than 18 in. I’ve had plenty of 36, 54, and 63 hole days. You can’t do that with slow play. 
 

But if you’re only playing 18, what is the hurry? Hurry up so we can be done playing golf? When I’m on the course, there is NOTHING I’m going to do the rest of the day that is going to be as fun as playing golf. So why rush?

 

How about, the next time you folks are on the course, you take some time and enjoy being out there. Do that instead of rushing through the round trying to “get it over with” as fast as you can. 
 

If you’re really that pressed for time, play 9 holes. Play 13 holes. 15 holes. What is the difference? You aren’t going to enjoy the remaining holes after your “personal time par” is exceeded anyway. Just leave. The folks behind you will appreciate it. 
 

Or, do as I do, and just enjoy every minute you’re out there. Whether that’s a quick 2.5 hour round, or a 5.5 hour slog. At some point, either the game will pass you by and it won’t be any fun anymore so you’ll quit, or your health will fail you and you won’t be able to play anymore. You certainly aren’t going to play golf better than you are right now, that’s how age works, so enjoy every minute. Eventually, you won’t be able to play, or you’ll never play to your current skill level.
 

So just enjoy it. 
 

 

Wrong!

If people are slow it effects everyone. You don't have the right to tell me how to play the game.

[Cliffy2020]

4 hours ago, mrshinsa said:

You better zoom into the picture and look at the flag.

That's the first par 3.   Hole #2 I think?

 

Still not convinced?  Pm me and I'll send you the tournament score, as well as picture from #1 and #10.

Lol. I live in Iowa.  My course is in Norwalk.  Like a different country here.  Same name, different world.