LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Holy Moses]

When is Phil going to have to answer to Yassir about LIV’s poor TV ratings and lack of sponsors? LIV would have had OWGR points by now if they had a more open league, but they can’t and won’t to this point. They have to protect Phil and his horrible game or he would get relegated. Phil, you are one of the main reasons some LIV players aren’t in the majors. 

Edited May 6 by Holy Moses

[Danielson]

On 5/3/2024 at 1:06 PM, lopey986 said:

On the one hand, playing Munis and courses that the average golfer can play for 50-100 bucks is honestly really cool. One the other hand...there are WAY better options but from what i've hear from guys up that way in the golf biz these courses don't want to touch LIV with a 50 foot pole because they have their sights set much higher and don't want to burn any bridges. There also isn't a huge benefit from a financial standpoint because LIV doesn't bring massive crowds or get eyes on the course through viewership. Can't say I blame em.

 

And the Bryson quote is downright laughable. It has to be tough for these guys to try to sound excited and toe the company line while knowing they are just spewing nonsense on a daily basis. The rivalries only matter if people have some type of ties to the teams and they don't. Most rivalries are simply born out of georgraphy or in the case of colleges the students and alumnis on top of that. If they truly want to stick to the team golf stuff and try to form rivalries then they need to give each team a "home course" where the average fan can regularly come watch them and have home and away matches and stuff. Just slapping makeshift teams together does absolutely nothing for it.

 

As it currently sits it's not even really team golf, right? It's individual golf with a cumulative team score after the fact and then they drop a score (which is absolutely absurd for a professional event). They could be doing a Ryder Cup style setup every single week. Captain-selected individual match play, fourball, alt shot for points. Then it feels like actual team golf. Since they're not getting OWGR points anyways at this point, what's the downside?

[dcmidnight]

31 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

hen is Phil going to have to answer to Yassir about LIV’s poor TV ratings and lack of Wsponsors? LIV would have had OWGR points by now if they had a more open league, but they can’t and won’t to this point. They have to protect Phil and his horrible game or he would get relegated. Phil, you are one of the main reasons some LIV players aren’t in the majors. 

 

Honestly at this point I just hope Phil is OK - healthwise. The last few clips I've seen of him he has not looked great at all. I know he joked about retiring but I just hope he's doing alright.

[geauxt]

32 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

When is Phil going to have to answer to Yassir about LIV’s poor TV ratings and lack of sponsors? LIV would have had OWGR points by now if they had a more open league, but they can’t and won’t to this point. They have to protect Phil and his horrible game or he would get relegated. Phil, you are one of the main reasons some LIV players aren’t in the majors. 

Phil’s complete lack of self-awareness is truly something.

[CaseyC]

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/phil-mickelson-warns-major-championships-over-lack-of-liv-players-deletes-tweet

 

...The six-time major champ was responding to a tweet from the @flushingitgolf handle saying the new league's "number 1 priority" should be getting their players access into golf's four biggest events. Currently the main pathway is via the Official World Golf Ranking, which still doesn't recognize LIV events.

 

Mickelson deleted his tweet, but you can still see it here:...

 

 

[bscinstnct]

LIV has spent literally billions

 

Yet they can’t spend a few million to put together a team to compile data and a proposal to the majors outlining the basis for their players getting exemptions?

 

 

[MrDC]

If LIV survives, and that's a big if, I think the Majors may add a special exemption for them, like the top 3-5 players of the season get in, but the big problem obviously is their lack of conforming events, is it fair to let guys into the Majors who have been playing low-pressure exhibition golf along with guys who have been grinding it out to make cuts? nope, it isn't.

The other problem is sure guys like Smith and Rahm are among the best right now, but how long does that status last only playing LIV events? to be the best you need to beat the best and LIV is not the best, not even close, so Smith and Rahm could easily be dismissed in just a few short years and the Majors not be considered lacking the best.

And if LIV grabs more top players then they'll have exemptions into the Majors for a bit, assuming they're that good, so maybe this is all no big deal in the end? maybe Phil's point is way off.

Edited May 6 by MrDC

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

LIV has spent literally billions

 

Yet they can’t spend a few million to put together a team to compile data and a proposal to the majors outlining the basis for their players getting exemptions?

 

 

LIV knows what they need to do. They don’t want to do it because they don’t want team captains to be relegated out and an open qualification process. 

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, MrDC said:

If LIV survives, and that's a big if, I think the Majors may add a special exemption for them, like the top 3-5 players of the season get in, but the big problem obviously is their lack of conforming events, is it fair to let guys into the Majors who have been playing low-pressure exhibition golf along with guys who have been grinding it out to make cuts? nope, it isn't.

The other problem is sure guys like Smith and Rahm are among the best right now, but how long does that status last only playing LIV events? to be the best you need to beat the best and LIV is not the best, not even close, so Smith and Rahm could easily be dismissed in just a few short years and the Majors not be considered lacking the best.

And if LIV grabs more top players then they'll have exemptions into the Majors for a bit, assuming they're that good, so maybe this is all no big deal in the end? maybe Phil's point is way off.

I don’t think the majors are giving any set number of LIV players exemptions. They would rather pick and choose and give special exemptions when they see fit.

[One Putter]

43 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

LIV knows what they need to do. They don’t want to do it because they don’t want team captains to be relegated out and an open qualification process. 

They have quite thoroughly proven that you can't just manufacture stars. Doesn't matter how many billions you spend. Someone either has it, or they don't. And if you aren't constantly shuffling and creating competition where guys have to play to a certain standard to stay on your tour, you are missing out on the possibility that one of the younger and unproven players can be a hit, star-wise.

[jplroper]

  If liv is so great why do they want to be in the Majors? Why don't they just make up their own majors, phil's figjam open. greg's narcissist  invitational, patrick reed's beach party, or ian poulters who tour. End of the season they could declare someone the King of Snee or Major of Drunkenhighm .

[mosesgolf]

IMO, if LIV left out Greg Norman and Phil from the gitgo we would’ve had a much less chaotic, vitriolic situation. How’s that saying go?  Don’t interrupt your foe when he is making a mistake.  😂 

[Holy Moses]

Gooch given a special exemption to the PGA Championship. 35th in the world according to Data Golf.

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, jplroper said:

  If liv is so great why do they want to be in the Majors? Why don't they just make up their own majors, phil's figjam open. greg's narcissist  invitational, patrick reed's beach party, or ian poulters who tour. End of the season they could declare someone the King of Snee or Major of Drunkenhighm .

LIV needs its players in the majors because that’s the only way they can get their players in front of a decent number of eyes

[fowlerscousin]

1 hour ago, jplroper said:

  If liv is so great why do they want to be in the Majors? Why don't they just make up their own majors, phil's figjam open. greg's narcissist  invitational, patrick reed's beach party, or ian poulters who tour. End of the season they could declare someone the King of Snee or Major of Drunkenhighm .

Adelaide is a major

[Ghost of Snead]

32 minutes ago, mosesgolf said:

IMO, if LIV left out Greg Norman and Phil from the gitgo we would’ve had a much less chaotic, vitriolic situation. How’s that saying go?  Don’t interrupt your foe when he is making a mistake.  😂 

 

There would be no LIV without Norman and Mickelson.

[Golfnutgalen]

1 hour ago, Holy Moses said:

Gooch given a special exemption to the PGA Championship. 35th in the world according to Data Golf.

More importantly 10th in SG this year among all players.

 

Surprisingly Louis Oosthuizen is 8th. Looking at his results he won twice and finished 2nd 3 times this season. 

[Archimedes65]

7 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

Honestly at this point I just hope Phil is OK - healthwise. The last few clips I've seen of him he has not looked great at all. I know he joked about retiring but I just hope he's doing alright.

 

He definitely needs to put down the Ozempic bottle and step away…

[Archimedes65]

3 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

IMO, if LIV left out Greg Norman and Phil from the gitgo we would’ve had a much less chaotic, vitriolic situation. How’s that saying go?  Don’t interrupt your foe when he is making a mistake.  😂 

 

Agree 100%. The PGA Tour is lucky that LIV has made so many mistakes from the get go, or they really would be in trouble.  Right now, the PGA Tour should just walk away from PIF entirely, focusing on making their business the best it can be and letting LIV do whatever they want.  Even if they poach a few more big name players, they’ll still be flushing money down the drain and having nothing to show for it.  Their exhibition tour, in its current form, is never going to resonate with fans.  And the more their ‘stars’ spout off with arrogant comments, the less likely it ever will.  Basically you have a malcontent leader who recruited mostly malcontent/controversial players, and then when out and tried to tear down the establishment with lawsuits and vitriol.  I must have been sick the day we discussed that strategy in business school.

[Holy Moses]

23 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

Agree 100%. The PGA Tour is lucky that LIV has made so many mistakes from the get go, or they really would be in trouble.  Right now, the PGA Tour should just walk away from PIF entirely, focusing on making their business the best it can be and letting LIV do whatever they want.  Even if they poach a few more big name players, they’ll still be flushing money down the drain and having nothing to show for it.  Their exhibition tour, in its current form, is never going to resonate with fans.  And the more their ‘stars’ spout off with arrogant comments, the less likely it ever will.  Basically you have a malcontent leader who recruited mostly malcontent/controversial players, and then when out and tried to tear down the establishment with lawsuits and vitriol.  I must have been sick the day we discussed that strategy in business school.

I’m in agreement, but the PGA Tour has to lower their prize money significantly. The losses can’t go on forever.

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

Agree 100%. The PGA Tour is lucky that LIV has made so many mistakes from the get go, or they really would be in trouble.  Right now, the PGA Tour should just walk away from PIF entirely, focusing on making their business the best it can be and letting LIV do whatever they want.  Even if they poach a few more big name players, they’ll still be flushing money down the drain and having nothing to show for it.  Their exhibition tour, in its current form, is never going to resonate with fans.  And the more their ‘stars’ spout off with arrogant comments, the less likely it ever will.  Basically you have a malcontent leader who recruited mostly malcontent/controversial players, and then when out and tried to tear down the establishment with lawsuits and vitriol.  I must have been sick the day we discussed that strategy in business school.

Flip side is history favors the establishment.  USFL spent a ton of money and lost to the NFL…same with the ABA to the NBA.  It’s difficult to create interest in a new league in any sport that has a long established fan base.

[Archimedes65]

5 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

I’m in agreement, but the PGA Tour has to lower their prize money significantly. The losses can’t go on forever.

 

Agreed.  There just isn’t enough money in professional golf to support the payroll of either of these tours, much less both of them.  The mistake that I think the PGA Tour is making is negotiating with an entity that is basically an extortionist.  The minute the lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice, the PGA Tour should have walked away from PIF and worked on a strategy that would support a healthy PGA Tour in the face of a non-economic actor, even if that meant a smaller entity with an altered purpose/focus.  The absolute worst case scenario would have been (would be) a 50/50 split of talent with LIV.  I would have been figuring out how to make that reality a sustainable model and the best product it could be, and then go from there.  The PGA Tour has massive advantages over LIV that would counter PIFs bottomless pockets to some extent.  Play to those strengths and go out there and compete with LIV rather than try to merge with them.  All that said, I don’t believe there will ever be an investment agreement with the PIF, as there is zero value to partnering with the PIF unless LIV goes away, which apparently isn’t happening.  Time to walk away.

[Archimedes65]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Flip side is history favors the establishment.  USFL spent a ton of money and lost to the NFL…same with the ABA to the NBA.  It’s difficult to create interest in a new league in any sport that has a long established fan base.

 

Agreed, which is why I think the PGA Tour should have walked away from the PIF the minute the lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice.

[CDM]

Hoping they figure something out soon as this divide is crushing pro golf.

 

Not sure if people are sick of the "noise" or this has gone on so long it has pretty much turned into the MLB aspect all over.

 

The CJ Cup event last weekend was down 24% in ratings and 22% in viewership.

 

PGAT can not continue with these numbers.  Sponsors have to be asking hard questions and I am sure SSG is wondering how much more money they will put in until this is all resolved.

 

Edit: numbers were reversed (fixed).  Plus looking at field it did not have "name" players to draw viewers.  Spieth played but he missed the cut

Edited May 7 by CDM

[subrew]

David Puig gets a PGA Championship invite, thanks to his efforts on the International Series.

 

 

[billyspan]

20 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Gooch given a special exemption to the PGA Championship. 35th in the world according to Data Golf.

Some say that the US PGA Championship is not really a major...  😉

[mosesgolf]

PGA Tour has the best farm system in the world.  I’m gonna go out on a limb and say these 4 are incorruptible 😇

 

[bscinstnct]

12 hours ago, CDM said:

Hoping they figure something out soon as this divide is crushing pro golf.

 

Not sure if people are sick of the "noise" or this has gone on so long it has pretty much turned into the MLB aspect all over.

 

The CJ Cup event last weekend was down 24% in ratings and 22% in viewership.

 

PGAT can not continue with these numbers.  Sponsors have to be asking hard questions and I am sure SSG is wondering how much more money they will put in until this is all resolved.

 

Edit: numbers were reversed (fixed).  Plus looking at field it did not have "name" players to draw viewers.  Spieth played but he missed the cut

 

Given how bad LIV ratings are even after spending all that on Rahm and Cam

SSG may see that even making a deal with LIV may not deliver much of a ratings boost

 

Masters ratings were down too, right? Even with Rahm BK Cam etc. ratings were off 20%

 

 

Edited May 7 by bscinstnct

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, mosesgolf said:

PGA Tour has the best farm system in the world.  I’m gonna go out on a limb and say these 4 are incorruptible 😇

 

I don't think that these two can be bribed to go to the Saudis 54League, but you never know. 🙂 After all I did say the same thing about Rahm.

[Archimedes65]

13 hours ago, CDM said:

Hoping they figure something out soon as this divide is crushing pro golf.

 

Not sure if people are sick of the "noise" or this has gone on so long it has pretty much turned into the MLB aspect all over.

 

The CJ Cup event last weekend was down 24% in ratings and 22% in viewership.

 

PGAT can not continue with these numbers.  Sponsors have to be asking hard questions and I am sure SSG is wondering how much more money they will put in until this is all resolved.

 

Edit: numbers were reversed (fixed).  Plus looking at field it did not have "name" players to draw viewers.  Spieth played but he missed the cut

 

Totally disagree. I think the average golf fan doesn’t give a rat’s behind about LIV or any of those players anymore.  They’re irrelevant.  Golf is fine.  Kill the merger discussions and move on. The vast majority of the top players, including the clear best player in the world at the moment, are still on the PGA Tour. And there is a ton of young talent coming up to replace all the guys that left.  In a couple years, they’ll be a distant memory.

 

The CJ Cup got no viewers because it’s a non elevated event, with almost none of the top players, at an awful dog track of a venue.  And of the few of us that did tune in, most were probably run off by Bibigo, go, go, go…

Edited May 7 by Archimedes65