RIP Joe Mayo and Viktor Hovland (No one is dead, please don’t click on if you can access your retirement without IRS penalties)

[abh00]

22 minutes ago, jimecherry said:

this post was so informative it fixed part of my driver swing ;}

But that ** title!

[bscinstnct]

[neighborhoodhero]

Saying RIP is not offensive in the slightest. So easy to read the post before jumping to conclusions. The holier-than-thou stuff is what’s for clicks.

[DomJones]

1 hour ago, Chunkitgood said:

A lot of people older than 50 use the initials RIP, and people were using it before those people were born.  They typically use don’t use it when referring to an actual living people, because it means those people are dead.  They use it mostly to refer to the end of things like social phenomena or trends (e.g., RIP K-pop, or RIP Game of Thrones, or RIP ASMR, possibly RIP PGA Tour).  To use it in reference to actual people can among other things start premature rumors of the death of those people.

 

 

Did people on the PGATour really not know to hit down on the ball until Mayo told them?  My mind is reeling.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/viktor-hovland-chipping-spin-loft-explained

I’d understand your argument if I was a writer for The Washington Post. I posted a niche topic in the tour talk section of a golf forum. If you actually saw the title and thought that Joe and Viktor were killed horrifically simultaneously then this thread is the least of your issues. Please don’t disparage Mr Mayo or dilute his teachings to “hitting down on the ball” you sound like you chip with a 6 iron and have never seen him work in person. 

[SnowbirdTom]

8 minutes ago, DomJones said:

I’d understand your argument if I was a writer for The Washington Post. I posted a niche topic in the tour talk section of a golf forum. If you actually saw the title and thought that Joe and Viktor were killed horrifically simultaneously then this thread is the least of your issues. Please don’t disparage Mr Mayo or dilute his teachings to “hitting down on the ball” you sound like you chip with a 6 iron and have never seen him work in person. 

FYI, that technique has been around longer than Joe’s been alive.  I was using it in the ‘70s myself.

[PedronNiall]

Can't say I see anything wrong with V Hov moving forward with someone new if he feels it will help him continue strengthening his game. There's still a stigma around it in golf, but in many other areas it's the norm to hone elements of a craft with multiple experts, practitioners, professors, etc. 

 

Still, we've seen players stay too long with someone as well as some leave and regret it, so I don't know that there's a magic formula for knowing what will turn out best. Guessing Hovland is trusting his own judgement, can't fault him for that. 

[Frankensteins Monster]

10 hours ago, MK7Golf21 said:

how do you know he doesn’t have one? 

How do you know it’s a “girl”friend…

[Lefthook]

On 1/4/2024 at 5:03 PM, dropkicked said:

 

Who's Joe?

He is known as Trackman Maestro here on gwx.

 

He was an eager poster here on gwx some 10-15 years ago. Back then, he wasn’t much of a golfer, probably in the double digits. And he wasn’t much of a theorist either. He was a nusiance here. 
 

As far as I recall  he had another nick before he purchased his first trackman. He asked all kinds of basic questions and didn’t seem to understand the answers, but suddenly he reinvented himself as a maestro. I doubt that anybody who read his posts back then regard him as a top notch golf instructor today.

 

More about my thoughts of that further down below. 

 

10 hours ago, jaffabell said:

I knew exactly what it meant as soon as I read it, its a shame the thread got taken over by folk who take things so literally. 

 

Am I right in thinking that Joe Mayo is the instructor who is currently posting daily on instagram preaching about how steep AOA with chipping isnt actually steep?

Yes, that’s the guy. And it seems to have made wonders to V’s short game progress.

 

 

8 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

I haven't talked to Joe about it because it's not something I would try to pry from him and it's none of my business.

 

But Joe worked with Viktor on his swing as well as his short game.  Viktor had issues with hitting too many low draws with the driver than he wished.  He wanted to play a cut and they started to see that his upper body center was too far forward in the downswing and that produces a steeper attack angle and shifts the path out to the right more and can cause those draws/hooks.  So while the chipping improvement helped Viktor tremendously, better control and confidence off the tee also played a role in Viktor's success with Joe.

And while I'm certain there will be coaches that did teach a lot of what Joe is teaching with regards to the short game, I think Joe has done a terrific job of really going into the details with this short game technique.  I actually get frustrated that this information came out now because I know if one of my former clients had this information and coaching about 5 years ago, they would have won twice on Tour in one season and that would have completely changed their career.  It's the worst kept secret on Tour that chipping yips are very prevalent and I think Joe's work with Viktor will make Tour players and future Tour players much better around the green in the end.

I used to employ the same pitching method that Joe prescribes and then got coached out of it and my pitching greatly suffered as a result.  Now imagine if I was playing for millions of dollars.  It's a big deal.

I will say that it is pretty apparent that Viktor's plan has been to jump from coach-to-coach and try to glean their ideas and get a 'fresh set of eyes' every so often.  He started working with Kelvin Miyahira until Kelvin unfortunately had a stroke.  He then worked with Denny Lucas and won the US Am.  From there I know he's worked with Lucas Wald, George Gankas, Jeff Smith and IIRC John Tillery.  So I have my doubts this is anything sinister or a 'falling out.'  Probably more of what Viktor has done all along and Joe probably understood that going into the working relationship and there's really ntohing wrong with that on Viktor's part either as it has worked quite well for him.

 

RH

Based on my knowledge, my compatriot Viktor is a golf swing geek on the very highest level, even by Gwx standards. So maybe he is his own coach and simply shops around for new impulses or whatever else he needs.
 

It is a Norwegian elite sports development trait to educate and “responsibleize” (typical Norwegian word) the athletes to take charge of their own development and training, and he seems to be on top of everything.

 

I take note of the confidence you have in JM, but I wouldn’t take swing advice from him even if I got it for free. He portrayed himself as a not so credible guy here on gwx only a few years back. Even though I recognise that he clearly gave Viktor vital short game info…

 

 

[RichieHunt]

I've always felt that if Hogan were a legendary veteran player today he would be taking the same route Viktor is taking...trying to work with as many of the top respected golf instructors today and glean what he can from them.

It's much easier said than done because you have to be committed to whatever instructor for that period of time, but you also need to know when to pull the plug if that instructor's teaching/opinions just simply aren't working.  Being committed to just 1 instructor also has its pros and cons.

As far as hitting down on the short game shots go, PGA Tour pros knew how to do it.  In fact, that's where Joe really learned all of this from one of the best in former student Brian Gay.  Joe saw Brian's radar data on the short game shots and came to the conclusion that using a shallower attack angle and 'using the bounce' may not be for everybody.  So he wanted to know why and how Brian was able to hit it with the attack angle he hand and never hit duffs, blades, etc.

 

I think the reason why the short game yips are so prevalent on Tour is that the course conditions are so good that they get a lot of super tight lies.  Some super soft, some super firm.  It's easy to error on those lies and it just gets into players' heads and then the start doing the wrong things to fix the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[st1800e]

2 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

I've always felt that if Hogan were a legendary veteran player today he would be taking the same route Viktor is taking...trying to work with as many of the top respected golf instructors today and glean what he can from them.

Wow.  

[Ferguson]

16 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Come on, that's real information - nobody wants that! 😀

 

Hawk - good to see you in the mix. 

 

 

 

Interesting thing about Mayo - 

 

Most people don't know that back in 1912, Hellmann's mayonnaise was manufactured in England.  In fact, the Titanic was carrying 12,000 jars of the condiment scheduled for delivery in Vera Cruz, Mexico, which was to be the next port of call for the great ship after its stop in New York.  This would have been the largest single shipment of mayonnaise ever delivered to Mexico.  But, as we know, the great ship did not make it to New York. The ship hit an iceberg and sank, and the cargo was forever lost.

 

The people of Mexico , who were crazy about mayonnaise, and were eagerly awaiting its delivery, were disconsolate at the loss.

Their anguish was so great, that they declared a national day of mourning, which they still observe to this day.  The national day of mourning occurs each year on May 5th and is known, of course, as...  Sinko De Mayo.

 

[One Putter]

On 1/3/2024 at 9:58 PM, TiScape said:

Joe Mayo!

Hey, Viktor! Great to see ya. Can you keep an eye on the aquarium and make sure no one touches the glass?

[North Texas]

2 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

Hawk - good to see you in the mix. 

 

 

 

Interesting thing about Mayo - 

 

Most people don't know that back in 1912, Hellmann's mayonnaise was manufactured in England.  In fact, the Titanic was carrying 12,000 jars of the condiment scheduled for delivery in Vera Cruz, Mexico, which was to be the next port of call for the great ship after its stop in New York.  This would have been the largest single shipment of mayonnaise ever delivered to Mexico.  But, as we know, the great ship did not make it to New York. The ship hit an iceberg and sank, and the cargo was forever lost.

 

The people of Mexico , who were crazy about mayonnaise, and were eagerly awaiting its delivery, were disconsolate at the loss.

Their anguish was so great, that they declared a national day of mourning, which they still observe to this day.  The national day of mourning occurs each year on May 5th and is known, of course, as...  Sinko De Mayo.

 

 

Might be the best post in the thread. Shut it down. 

[hackerboy]

4 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

Hawk - good to see you in the mix. 

 

 

 

Interesting thing about Mayo - 

 

Most people don't know that back in 1912, Hellmann's mayonnaise was manufactured in England.  In fact, the Titanic was carrying 12,000 jars of the condiment scheduled for delivery in Vera Cruz, Mexico, which was to be the next port of call for the great ship after its stop in New York.  This would have been the largest single shipment of mayonnaise ever delivered to Mexico.  But, as we know, the great ship did not make it to New York. The ship hit an iceberg and sank, and the cargo was forever lost.

 

The people of Mexico , who were crazy about mayonnaise, and were eagerly awaiting its delivery, were disconsolate at the loss.

Their anguish was so great, that they declared a national day of mourning, which they still observe to this day.  The national day of mourning occurs each year on May 5th and is known, of course, as...  Sinko De Mayo.

 

Great story. You must be an Andrea Doria survivor.  
Anyway, my random thoughts. 
1. RIP- give me a break. That’s standard jargon for ending of anything, and 1000% clear on intent here. Having learned of their split, RIP is appropriate. We enjoyed their transient successful partnership. 
2. While I hate TMG and gossip etc, this is a very fishy split. Many recent videos showed them enjoying Kumbaya chipping in Vegas, and Hovland being wired up at Ping labs w Mayo commenting. So frankly, very fishy.

3. Hovland’s short game was very fishy at Tigers recent Bahama event. Like bad sushi. Had some horrific chips and bunker shots. Atypical for past year. 
4.  Hovland’s obviously a world class golfer, and I believe a very nice kid.  Mayo’s a pro. Doubt we’ll ever know why the split, but I’m disappointed because I’m fans of both, and enjoyed their limited videos working together. 

 

Edited January 6 by hackerboy

[Mp14forlife]

I am curious why they split, the fact he won't comment and the way the TV analysts described it, I think it definitely wasn't amicable. Who knows, Hovland could have a mean streak in him, he appears so happy and ho hum and apple pie about everything. People like that either truly are nice and happy or they have 2 people they're hiding in their freezer.

 

"Disclaimer" I'm not actually claiming he has people in his freezer. 

[hackerboy]

On 1/5/2024 at 3:40 AM, DomJones said:

It’s a golf forum I’m not going for clicks I was giving an update. RIP is how a lot of people under the age of 50 talk about things that end not that someone has died. Shame because Joe Mayo knows ball. 

I’m highly offended.  Us “way over 50” crowd use RIP also for many things that have ended. Like “RIP” to old putter which drowned, “RIP” to my Infiniti, which was put to sleep for too much planned obsolescence. “RIP” to the PGA Tour as we knew it… for a real long time. “RIP” to The Warriors and Lakers (no, their planes are still airborne, thankfully not 737-9’s).  And finally, RIP to “RIP.” The previous “RIP”, which everyone understood….whether the solemn version, or the cynical form.  So please stop this AGE DISCRIMINATION and recognize that most of us 70 and older use “RIP” like you young whippersnappers.  RIP. 

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, hackerboy said:

I’m highly offended.  Us “way over 50” crowd use RIP also for many things that have ended.

 

Like “RIP” to old putter which drowned,

 

“RIP” to my Infiniti, which was put to sleep for too much planned obsolescence.

 

“RIP” to the PGA Tour as we knew it… for a real long time.

 

“RIP” to The Warriors and Lakers

 

Thank you for making the point.

 

ALL those things you've just RIP'd would be understood to be vague and/or tongue-in-cheek, or whatever other word you'd care to use.

 

And the reader-to-be would've realized the RIP was not to be taken literally. And the quotes around the RIP would've suggested the same thing.

 

RIP, without quotes, followed by a name or 2, and without any other context, almost always means someone's life has ended.

 

So if the OP did it intentionally he is either looking for views, immature, or just plain trolling. And if it wasn't intentional, he's oblivious.

 

And instead of simply saying "My bad" (something even geriatrics would understand LOL) and ending it, he instead doubled down and got snarky - as youngsters(?) are wont to do.

 

The end.

 

 

Edited January 6 by nsxguy

[hackerboy]

47 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Thank you for making the point.

 

ALL those things you've just RIP'd would be understood to be vague and/or tongue-in-cheek, or whatever other word you'd care to use.

 

And the reader-to-be would've realized the RIP was not to be taken literally. And the quotes around the RIP would've suggested the same thing.

 

RIP, without quotes, followed by a name or 2, and without any other context, almost always means someone's life has ended.

 

So if the OP did it intentionally he is either looking for views, immature, or just plain trolling. And if it wasn't intentional, he's oblivious.

 

And instead of simply saying "My bad" (something even geriatrics would understand LOL) and ending it, he instead doubled down and got snarky - as youngsters(?) are wont to do.

 

The end.

 

 

Ok.  More importantly, you still have an Nsx, and what year? Love those. Always thought it was the only daily driveable supercar. 

Edited January 6 by hackerboy

[nsxguy]

4 minutes ago, hackerboy said:

Ok.  More importantly, you still have an Nsx, and what year? Love those. Always thought it was the only daily driveable supercar. 

 

No more NSX. But yep, easy daily driver. About as low maintenance as your average Honda. Except if you went for oem tires; ~$400 each (way back when) and they'd get about 4K miles.

 

Was fortunate to find a reasonably priced replacement that lasted about 20K miles.

 

I was lucky enough to have 3 of them over a period of about 10 years. Could never afford the new one.

 

Wish I'd kept the last one ('04 Orange/orange). It'd be worth about twice what I paid for it.

[hackerboy]

2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

No more NSX. But yep, easy daily driver. About as low maintenance as your average Honda. Except if you went for oem tires; ~$400 each (way back when) and they'd get about 4K miles.

 

Was fortunate to find a reasonably priced replacement that lasted about 20K miles.

 

I was lucky enough to have 3 of them over a period of about 10 years. Could never afford the new one.

 

Wish I'd kept the last one ('04 Orange/orange). It'd be worth about twice what I paid for it.

Nice. 3 is great. They seemed so expensive in 96, but compared to new ones those years were steals for what you got. 

[Barfolomew]

I'm clickbait proof..... I'll still click but I could not click if I wanted to

[hackerboy]

7 hours ago, hackerboy said:

Great story. You must be an Andrea Doria survivor.  
Anyway, my random thoughts. 
1. RIP- give me a break. That’s standard jargon for ending of anything, and 1000% clear on intent here. Having learned of their split, RIP is appropriate. We enjoyed their transient successful partnership. 
2. While I hate TMG and gossip etc, this is a very fishy split. Many recent videos showed them enjoying Kumbaya chipping in Vegas, and Hovland being wired up at Ping labs w Mayo commenting. So frankly, very fishy.

3. Hovland’s short game was very fishy at Tigers recent Bahama event. Like bad sushi. Had some horrific chips and bunker shots. Atypical for past year. 
4.  Hovland’s obviously a world class golfer, and I believe a very nice kid.  Mayo’s a pro. Doubt we’ll ever know why the split, but I’m disappointed because I’m fans of both, and enjoyed their limited videos working together. 

 

Re: timely commentary- Hovland just bladed a bunker shot into the jungle on hole 14 at Plantation round 3 (5Jan23 at 1:20) One of 2 easiest holes on course. His bunker play was really suspect at Tiger’s event.  I think it’s in his head now. From contention to done. 

Edited January 6 by hackerboy

[grm24]

5 hours ago, nsxguy said:

RIP, without quotes, followed by a name or 2, and without any other context, almost always means someone's life has ended.

Correct. If somebody would start a thread with R.I.P. Cindy Morgan a/k/a Lacey Underall most people here would understand that and know who it is. She passed today at age 69.

[TiScape]

12 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

Hawk - good to see you in the mix. 

 

 

 

Interesting thing about Mayo - 

 

Most people don't know that back in 1912, Hellmann's mayonnaise was manufactured in England.  In fact, the Titanic was carrying 12,000 jars of the condiment scheduled for delivery in Vera Cruz, Mexico, which was to be the next port of call for the great ship after its stop in New York.  This would have been the largest single shipment of mayonnaise ever delivered to Mexico.  But, as we know, the great ship did not make it to New York. The ship hit an iceberg and sank, and the cargo was forever lost.

 

The people of Mexico , who were crazy about mayonnaise, and were eagerly awaiting its delivery, were disconsolate at the loss.

Their anguish was so great, that they declared a national day of mourning, which they still observe to this day.  The national day of mourning occurs each year on May 5th and is known, of course, as...  Sinko De Mayo.

 

It totally makes sense now!

[Soloman1]

I’m not into piling on with Joe Mayo.

There are tour players who have tried to glean something from a dozen or more people. Some change coaches more than their socks.

 

Sometimes the person doesn’t have any more to give. Sometimes the player doesn’t find themselves getting better.

 

It’s like guitar players trying to build a repertoire of new licks or styles.

[Chopper Dave]

7 hours ago, hackerboy said:

I’m highly offended.  Us “way over 50” crowd use RIP also for many things that have ended. Like “RIP” to old putter which drowned, “RIP” to my Infiniti, which was put to sleep for too much planned obsolescence. “RIP” to the PGA Tour as we knew it… for a real long time. “RIP” to The Warriors and Lakers (no, their planes are still airborne, thankfully not 737-9’s).  And finally, RIP to “RIP.” The previous “RIP”, which everyone understood….whether the solemn version, or the cynical form.  So please stop this AGE DISCRIMINATION and recognize that most of us 70 and older use “RIP” like you young whippersnappers.  RIP. 

Hang on Father Time. Please change your name to hackercoot.

[SBH9458]

[JLP_GOLF]

Absolutely baffled with all the Karens offended by the choice of words, who felt so passionate about it, they had to advocate for change!  Aren’t there bigger problems to solve than to take issue with someone’s title choice on a free Internet forum?  I mean cmon.  There’s almost more posts about the title than the topic.  
 

Is it really that much of a travesty you had to click a button fo find out an assumption you made for 5 seconds was wrong?  Just so much softness going on here, can’t let the marshmallows win.  
 

The only thing more silly is me sharing my opinion on something so ridiculous.  I tried to refrain, but at least I’m self aware.  
 

The split is a bummer for sure, was great to see VH improvements around the green and have a monster year.  I also think the chipping method mayo prefers has brought along really good discussion into the community on technique.  Not usually one for golf instruction wars (AMG vs Milo, stack and tilt vs literally everybody who is not them, and Mayo vs  short game chef), but when people can discuss respectfully, there are some good thoughts and learnings to be had.

[Mitchell]

1 hour ago, Soloman1 said:

I’m not into piling on with Joe Mayo.

There are tour players who have tried to glean something from a dozen or more people. Some change coaches more than their socks.

 

Sometimes the person doesn’t have any more to give. Sometimes the player doesn’t find themselves getting better.

 

It’s like guitar players trying to build a repertoire of new licks or styles.

More wisdom from Soloman, there’s a historical reference there somewhere 😀

[hackerboy]

1 hour ago, Chopper Dave said:

Hang on Father Time. Please change your name to hackercoot.

I LIKE IT. Just saw dictionary “coot”- a foolish person, crochety, esp an old man. Jeez, now that I’m 70, Hacker”boy” is done.