who has actually played with a legit scratch golfer/pro level player?

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  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers Posts: 2,031 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Golfjack wrote:


    Good golfers are just amazing. I'd feel like I'm doing well being 1 under through three holes, and for them it's what they do pretty much every 3 holes, give or take a birdie or occasional bogey. The skill level is just massive. However I think comparing scratch guys to pro guys (even mini tour or even college guys) they probably feel the same. They'll see how that pro hits the shot closer than them seemingly every time. And when they miss the green their chip lands very close to the hole, and they'll par it anyway. Seriously how you do you even beat that unless you can say your own game resembles the same?




    I mean just think of what that freedom from fear alone does to your scores.
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  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭
    Every time I see this thread pop up on my feed, I think.... "who hasn't played with a scratch ?!?"



    Honestly, not being snide at all, if you haven't and you can easily afford it and love this game, go out and hire a teaching pro in your region with the best reputation as a "player." If you don't know, then ask around a little, there will be one or two that have a reputation for going low in the local Pro Am's.



    Ask him for a playing lesson, 18 holes, and then tell him you want all your strokes, if he's a plus which he should be add them to your handicap and bet him a dollar nassau. Tell him that you want him to withhold his comments on your course management until after the round and go out and play him net.



    Best money you could spend if you want to get better at this game. He may not be a good teacher, and you may not want to take his swing advice or course management advice, but you should learn enough by just watching him take your local course apart to pay for the lesson.
  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Posts: 3,791 ClubWRX
    Matt J wrote:


    Every time I see this thread pop up on my feed, I think.... "who hasn't played with a scratch ?!?"



    Honestly, not being snide at all, if you haven't and you can easily afford it and love this game, go out and hire a teaching pro in your region with the best reputation as a "player." If you don't know, then ask around a little, there will be one or two that have a reputation for going low in the local Pro Am's.



    Ask him for a playing lesson, 18 holes, and then tell him you want all your strokes, if he's a plus which he should be add them to your handicap and bet him a dollar nassau. Tell him that you want him to withhold his comments on your course management until after the round and go out and play him net.



    Best money you could spend if you want to get better at this game. He may not be a good teacher, and you may not want to take his swing advice or course management advice, but you should learn enough by just watching him take your local course apart to pay for the lesson.




    That, right there, is some of the best advice ever written on this forum.



    The journey has to start somewhere. And this is a great way to start that journey.
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  • MidwestGolfBumMidwestGolfBum Corporate Golfer Extraordinaire MSN/MKE/DSMMembers Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Obee wrote:

    Matt J wrote:


    Every time I see this thread pop up on my feed, I think.... "who hasn't played with a scratch ?!?"



    Honestly, not being snide at all, if you haven't and you can easily afford it and love this game, go out and hire a teaching pro in your region with the best reputation as a "player." If you don't know, then ask around a little, there will be one or two that have a reputation for going low in the local Pro Am's.



    Ask him for a playing lesson, 18 holes, and then tell him you want all your strokes, if he's a plus which he should be add them to your handicap and bet him a dollar nassau. Tell him that you want him to withhold his comments on your course management until after the round and go out and play him net.



    Best money you could spend if you want to get better at this game. He may not be a good teacher, and you may not want to take his swing advice or course management advice, but you should learn enough by just watching him take your local course apart to pay for the lesson.




    That, right there, is some of the best advice ever written on this forum.



    The journey has to start somewhere. And this is a great way to start that journey.




    Having played with Tour Pros to high level ams and everything in between them, this can NOT be any better advice.



    Seeing how somebody who is a great player gets around the course, manages their game and their misses, and just plain thinks while they are out playing, especially with something on the line (even if it's a small amount), will teach you more than you can ever learn from hitting balls.
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  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭
    A second best approach, and a budget approach, might be to read Ray Floyd's book on course management, The Elements of Scoring. It has been widely recommended on this forum and I am very grateful some of the members recommend it, as it has helped me tremendously.



    To improve we have to practice what we do poorly. Keeping our statistics and realizing our mistakes is the key to improving.



    Best wishes, fellas.
  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers Posts: 2,031 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Matt J wrote:
    A second best approach, and a budget approach, might be to read Ray Floyd's book on course management, The Elements of Scoring. It has been widely recommended on this forum and I am very grateful some of the members recommend it, as it has helped me tremendously.



    To improve we have to practice what we do poorly. Keeping our statistics and realizing our mistakes is the key to improving.



    Best wishes, fellas.




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  • jonnymc44jonnymc44 Manchester UKMembers Posts: 153 ✭✭✭

    Matt J wrote:
    A second best approach, and a budget approach, might be to read Ray Floyd's book on course management, The Elements of Scoring. It has been widely recommended on this forum and I am very grateful some of the members recommend it, as it has helped me tremendously.



    To improve we have to practice what we do poorly. Keeping our statistics and realizing our mistakes is the key to improving.



    Best wishes, fellas.




    Just purchased from Amazon, thanks.




    I've just picked up a used copy for £2 from Amazon. Wish me luck!

    Picked up a copy of From 60 Yards In: How to Master Golf's Short Game as well. Also £2!
  • BB28403BB28403 Members Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 13, 2019 12:50pm #310
    CSkipR wrote:
    Over my working career I played with a number of PGA pros with our manufacturer partners. Retired in 06. David Toms, Scott Simpson, Anika Sorenson, Tom Shaw, Joe Durant, Tommy Jacobs, Loren Roberts, Fulton Allen, Chip Beck, J C Snead, Cathy Gehring, Frank Beard, Ralph Terry, Tom Lehman & David Frost

    All were enjoyable and pleasant to golf with. Played with Anika and David Toms a couple of times. Got my only hole in one with Cathy Gehring.




    What is Anika like? Impressive game? I have read vision 54 books and she is their model for the whole system.
  • Aaronwilson_95Aaronwilson_95 Members Posts: 883 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I’ve played with myself so the answer is yes.
  • BNGLBNGL Members Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I’ve played with myself so the answer is yes.




    Because no one will play with you...lmfao





  • jambox107jambox107 Members Posts: 62 ✭✭
    I have and their shots just look and sound different from the low to mid handicapper. We can all hit good shots but the consistency a scratch has is impressive and lag putting. They miss too, but ability to recover and not try hero shots allows them to score.
  • Aaronwilson_95Aaronwilson_95 Members Posts: 883 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BNGL said:
    I’ve played with myself so the answer is yes.




    Because no one will play with you...lmfao





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  • mizuno playermizuno player Mizuno player Members Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I've been lucky to play with a few. One of.my best friends kids was a D1 SEC player. Played minis for awhile. Had/had the best looking swing. Couldn't make enough birdies. But wow his swing.
    Then in a local tournament played with a guy who a fee years later would win the US Senior Amateur. Just consistent.

  • SoloShot84SoloShot84 Members Posts: 407 ✭✭✭✭

    @Matt J said:
    Every time I see this thread pop up on my feed, I think.... "who hasn't played with a scratch ?!?"

    Honestly, not being snide at all, if you haven't and you can easily afford it and love this game, go out and hire a teaching pro in your region with the best reputation as a "player." If you don't know, then ask around a little, there will be one or two that have a reputation for going low in the local Pro Am's.

    Ask him for a playing lesson, 18 holes, and then tell him you want all your strokes, if he's a plus which he should be add them to your handicap and bet him a dollar nassau. Tell him that you want him to withhold his comments on your course management until after the round and go out and play him net.

    Best money you could spend if you want to get better at this game. He may not be a good teacher, and you may not want to take his swing advice or course management advice, but you should learn enough by just watching him take your local course apart to pay for the lesson.

    No offense but pure curiosity: how could this be different than watching pros shot by shot on TV/YouTube vs in-Person?
    Does this mean one can benefit from watching Pro's playing in person at PGA tournament?

  • 3jacker3jacker Members Posts: 1,004 ✭✭

    It's like the difference between actually having **** and watching it on the computer.
    Or maybe not. Forget I said that.

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  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭

    I'd say this ^^^^ is fair. Pros on tv are like cartoons playing on cartoon courses. They hit it 500 yards and the greens are like a baby's butt. Or not. Watching a human play great golf in person is inspiring.

    You wanna know the things pga pros do that impress me the most? Lag putt.

    99% of spectators are thinking "**** he missed." I'm thinking **** his speed is absolutely impeccable.

  • daniel gibsondaniel gibson D-a-n-d-a-n Members Posts: 322 ✭✭

    Iv played with an Asian tour pro before. He used to be a member at my home course and was back over practicing for open qualifying. The group ahead was holding me up, he joined me for the rest of the round.
    Iv never had someone ground my golf game so much. Unbelievable distance (Unbelievable). Driver, flick to one of the par 5, literally kicked it in from 5".
    Best thing about it all though, such a nice guy.

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  • TommixTommix Members Posts: 57 ✭✭
    edited Apr 26, 2019 1:57am #320

    Years ago I had the best golf day ever and a good laugh playing with two + handicap golfers .
    He is an ex pro off a plus handicap and his misses ex National Ladies Amateur Champ now mum still off a plus handicap. And she whopped him . He was not a happy fella but I was watching.

  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Allez Allez Allez Minnesota, USAMembers Posts: 6,508 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting thread. Still going after several months. :)

    I've played with a couple scratch players, outside of Club Professionals. Both met randomly through the golf nerd intarweb forums. The two I'm thinking of both have the same first name.

    One is fellow WRX member jll62. I don't remember what his cap was at the time I met him, other than a bit (only a bit) higher than the +4 he is currently. Good length, short game, putting, iron play.... yeah, basically much the same as the preceding few hundred posts in the thread. And a good dude.

    It's been quite a while since I last played golf with him, so greater details aren't on recall any longer. **** aging memory, LOL

    The other scratch player will appeal to the distance lovers. And maybe the distance haters, LOL. He was right at scratch at his best. He didn't talk about the distance much, and I got the impression when we first met that he held it in check on the course for the most part. When I saw him relax the restraints a bit, it was eye opening. Basically Cameron Champ level swingspeed. Drove a 296 yd par 4 with his 4 wood. Hit a 3 wood 310 off the deck to the green, landing on green and holding (and making birdie putt). Air mail from 195 with an 8 iron. All sorts of fun. It's the kind of stuff that cause so many to call BS on golf forums, LOL.

    There may be others I've missed in the golf forum crowd. See memory comment above ;)

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  • lopey986lopey986 ClubWRX Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Didn't play with but played a group in front of Travis Kreiter and an lpga player and they had 2 others with them. Luckily we play pretty fast so we didn't hold them up, but we could watch all of their approach shots into the greens once we cleared and it was amazing just watching them stick everything inside 25 feet all day long from wherever they were. Asked how they shot after the round was over and got a meh, 1 under, boring day. Kreiter holds the course record where we were playing so it was funny to hear 1 under was a boring day when i shot in the 90s.

  • Nixhex524Nixhex524 ClubWRX Posts: 4,156 ClubWRX

    Buddy of mine played in college, not a very big dude at all, doesn't hit it super far but just finds ways to score... he's +3 and I watched him shoot 65 at my home course this year. Everything just goes straight... it's fun to watch. Bunch of guys in my club are low caps and I see Brianna Do practicing at a local range just about every week. Great swing, fun to watch her hit the ball. The Pro at that course played on the Web.com tour a little bit as well... Never got to get out there with him but have seen him on the course. Some people are just at a whole other level.

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  • Gilmore-HappyGilmore-Happy Members Posts: 99 ✭✭✭

    A friend of mine is a local assistant pro and plays off scratch. We have convinced him to play with us on a few occasions and it was pretty eye opening for me what I need to work on. At the time, I was playing off a 5 or 6. I was hitting my tee shots and irons as well as he was. The BIG difference was almost all short game. I can get up and down with some consistency but he ALWAYS got up and down. He also made putts I would consider long look routine. He shot even par at the end of the round and wasn't happy about it lol.

  • JustsomeguyJustsomeguy Members Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I commented here awhile back. Played w a guy who blew my mind. When pushed about college golf, said he wasn't good enough to make U of AZ team bc in his years there Jim Furyk was the captain, and team very deep.
    Went to Zurich classic today and saw Furyk an JB Holmes and Bubba.
    Frankly, I came away w the opposite conclusion many people do when watching the pros. I think that level of consistency is very doable if you're physically hardy enough for it, and you can sling it 300+ and putt above average.
    Reflecting back to the guy I played w who blew me away: he could have done this professionally instead of managing a casino, which he also excels at.
    So - yeah. The 15 cap is telling you zero or plus guys who can hit it 300 and putt. Yes. You're already a rock star.

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  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭

    Watched a pretty smooth 66 today. Everyone in the group hit the ball pretty well but this guy made a ton of putts. He birdied 8 through 12 in a row.

  • KangarooLeftyKangarooLefty Lefty Bomber Members Posts: 15 ✭✭

    A few of my friends played D1 golf (now in our early 30s). It used to be frustrating playing with them, because I'm a competitive person and I didn't like losing by so much. Over the years I've really taken to golf and the work required to become proficient to a degree. Playing with them helps. I got my handicap down to a 2 last year and mostly played with my buddy who is a +1.7 last I checked.

    It's funny though - of the four or so close friends at 0 or positive hdpc none can hold a candle to this upper 50s doc at this private course in town. Played with him about 5 or 6 times. He's not long... my dad (3 or 4hdcp) and I will be 40 50 yards further than him hitting 8 or 9 irons into a long par 4 and he'll casually hit a 5 wood to 6 feet. I've seen him hit every fairway and every green on a traditionally hard golf course. If he makes a few putts he'll finish around 66 67. He's shot 62 four times according to him and more 63s, 64s, etc.

    The problem with some people not playing with these types of golfers can be attributed to most of them having a group they routinely play with, most aren't playing public golf courses that get heavy play (slow golf is the bane of my golfing existence), and most low handicappers don't enjoy watching non-friend high handicappers duff it around. I think they are afraid it will rub off on them. Kidding.

    I'm willing to bet your local municipal does have a skins game though... for a 20 or 30 dollar buy in I'm sure you could play with some great players. Just don't expect to get any strokes.

  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭

    KangarooLefty, as a fellow lefty, I agree with your sentiments. Good players are in a much smaller abundance than poor ones. They can be elusive.

    A few golfing pals and I have been trying to start up a little recurring game. We find it much easier to attract 10 to 20 handicaps than +2 to -3's. The 5-10 range is probably 5 or 6 times the potential pool of players than the 0 to 5 range. We have a 4 that plays like a 2 on occasion that none of us can beat. We've been trying to attract a couple of low guys to even out the bets and realized there's just not a lot of them in our community. Even fewer that will agree to walk the course which is one of our stipulations of play.

  • CMCSGolfCMCSGolf Members Posts: 553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Matt J said:
    KangarooLefty, as a fellow lefty, I agree with your sentiments. Good players are in a much smaller abundance than poor ones. They can be elusive.

    A few golfing pals and I have been trying to start up a little recurring game. We find it much easier to attract 10 to 20 handicaps than +2 to -3's. The 5-10 range is probably 5 or 6 times the potential pool of players than the 0 to 5 range. We have a 4 that plays like a 2 on occasion that none of us can beat. We've been trying to attract a couple of low guys to even out the bets and realized there's just not a lot of them in our community. Even fewer that will agree to walk the course which is one of our stipulations of play.

    I'm amazed at how many good players don't walk. Almost all low single digit players played a lot as a junior (that's the easiest way to get good), which means they must have walked when they learned the game. If you grow up and learn the game as a walker, I would think it would stick with you. But as an adult they get away from it obviously. It doesn't surprise me at all that people who pick up the game later in life ride, but the players who walked fairways all day as a kid and leave that behind gets me down sometimes.

  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭
    edited May 3, 2019 4:19am #330

    It's a great way to come off as casual and conform. Two things that give a lot of guys confidence. I've been solidly playing like a 6/7. Rode tonight to a 44. Riding partner shot even as a 4/5. He rides every single round. I walked 36 yesterday trying to cut some blubber. Felt like it could have been 54 holes as beat as I was today. Comfortable is good in golf. 2 flights on 18 holes and not starting in the middle of one side greatly encourages leisurely golf not a little golf in your leisure. Golf is just hard. Fatigue and stress make it harder.

  • s1mZs1mZ Members Posts: 93 ✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2019 8:41am #331

    Enjoy this thread, and finally had my chance to play with a tour pro.
    He is a tour pro at my home course - he plays on the Sunshine Tour & managed to get into some big European Tour events. Sponsored by Mizuno (and I love me some mizzys), so this was a good ice-breaker when we struck up a friendship about 6 months ago. He's currently off-form, so I have been seeing him a lot at the range. He invited me to 18 holes during the week, so he can test some swing changes etc. I get involved before he blinks and we set it up. SUPER NICE DUDE. A few things I noticed:

    • Ridiculously SUPER long...and then some! He must have been averaging 340 yards or something. All par 5s are medium par 4s to him. He crushes everything - from the 2i to lob. Couldn't believe his club choices on par 3s.
    • Putting - sweet stroke. I would say it was like 35% backswing, and longer follow-through (65%). 2 putts maximum
    • Short game / wedges - He prefers to keep it low, with the 1 hop and check chip. I (used to) prefer the high pitch, but he's taught me the advantages of keeping it lower.
    • Excellent course management. Rarely in trouble. But when he was, he was aggressive with the recovery.
    • Fitness - he is in great shape. Manages his energy usage very well. He had a full gym session after the 18 holes!

    Completely echo the point of "play with better players to get better". I asked soo much and learnt more from observation.
    These guys are good!

    Post edited by s1mZ on

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