Obee's Putting Improvement Thread

[Nels55]

3 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I have done this for a long time.  Never knew it was supposed to be "bad".  I don't putt as well as I would like to, especially on short putts (ongoing project), but I lag putt pretty well.  Knowing that the putter stroke is sufficient to get the ball to/just past the hole in real time while making the stroke is an advantage.

It gets worse for me as when I am putting well I move my head towards the target on my backswing and away from the target on my through swing.  I use a sort of shoulder rocking method and I think that the center of my swing is in my chest somewhere.  LOL I had an instructor 'correct' that fault a few years ago and I have never really recovered completely from that effort.  I also stand up straight while putting to take pressure off of my back which is something that I have done for many years going back to when I used a long putter.  LOL I am a complete mess but a decent putter for my level...  Go figure!

 

Anyway everything that I do is done in an effort to be able to make short putts.  I have a tendency to yip slightly on short putts and I am constantly battling to keep my unusual set of putting mechanics where I need them to be.  When it is working I roll short putts fairly true but when something goes off I will miss a lot of them.  It is kind of a cycle I will start putting really well and then get lazy and not practice enough until I have a really bad putting round which will then get me motivated to practice and figure out what bad habit I have slipped into and then get back on track. 

 

Okay, I am playing this morning and I believe that it is time to go practice my putting stroke!

[ThinkingPlus]

41 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

It gets worse for me as when I am putting well I move my head towards the target on my backswing and away from the target on my through swing.  I use a sort of shoulder rocking method and I think that the center of my swing is in my chest somewhere.  LOL I had an instructor 'correct' that fault a few years ago and I have never really recovered completely from that effort.  I also stand up straight while putting to take pressure off of my back which is something that I have done for many years going back to when I used a long putter.  LOL I am a complete mess but a decent putter for my level...  Go figure!

 

Anyway everything that I do is done in an effort to be able to make short putts.  I have a tendency to yip slightly on short putts and I am constantly battling to keep my unusual set of putting mechanics where I need them to be.  When it is working I roll short putts fairly true but when something goes off I will miss a lot of them.  It is kind of a cycle I will start putting really well and then get lazy and not practice enough until I have a really bad putting round which will then get me motivated to practice and figure out what bad habit I have slipped into and then get back on track. 

 

Okay, I am playing this morning and I believe that it is time to go practice my putting stroke!

Good luck and play well!

[milesgiles]

tour average from 8' is 52%

 

my only putting drill at the moment is from 8' going round the clock, hole 50 in as few as possible. Did 110 last week, which i dont think is too bad but a lot of room for improvement

[sevenfourate]

Great thread !
 

I live in a pretty remote location in the U.K and am looking to improve my putting. From Googling it’s a minimum of 140 mile round trip to find / attend a renowned ‘putting specialist’ in person…..

 

I did ask in the Instruction forum here about taking instruction remotely via some sort of live video link (?) -  but as yet had no reply. 

 

Aside from that are there any simple aids I can buy to help me - such as one of the lined / mirrored set up devices to at the very least nail down a solid and repetitive set-up as a first line of attack ???

 

 

[bortass]

Well, I almost had a great day putting Saturday. 27 putts on 17 holes( took an X on a par 5 after hitting two tee shots OOB). Seven one putts that were all inside 3 feet. One three putt from 44 feet but I also missed three putts from three feet... My limited putting practice is focused on short putts. Arccos confirms that inside 10 feet is the biggest weakness of my putting game, so I'll just keep at it.

[Haroputt]

I putts much better when I think about rocking my shoulders

 

If I swing the arms and think about how far back I should bring the putter back  with my hands I get too inconsistent  with how far the ball will roll

When  rock the shoulders and  to bring the putter back  with the "bigger muscles"  I'm  more consistent gauging  putting distance control 

Seem counter intuitive to use the bigger shoulder muscles to control for  such a short distance  and  than the hands but it works for me 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Haroputt

[Shushwap]

On 9/20/2021 at 2:56 AM, sevenfourate said:

Great thread !
 

I live in a pretty remote location in the U.K and am looking to improve my putting. From Googling it’s a minimum of 140 mile round trip to find / attend a renowned ‘putting specialist’ in person…..

 

I did ask in the Instruction forum here about taking instruction remotely via some sort of live video link (?) -  but as yet had no reply. 

 

Aside from that are there any simple aids I can buy to help me - such as one of the lined / mirrored set up devices to at the very least nail down a solid and repetitive set-up as a first line of attack ???

 

 

I made 2 trips to see a putting specialist this year  and it was the best thing... the 4.5 hour drive each way was well worth it... 

Best advice is to see a putting specialist before u spend a bunch of time ingraining bad habits.. nothing worse then puting in the work only to find its all been a waste of time

I plan to make the trip a few more times next year.. once we dig out of winter  

[MrFlipper]

On 9/20/2021 at 3:56 AM, sevenfourate said:

Aside from that are there any simple aids I can buy to help me - 

Really all I needed was a putting mat, maybe 10 feet long, and a device to put a circle on golf balls so I could be sure I was rolling them correctly as @Obee noted much much earlier in the thread. After that, I felt confident and was off and running.

 

Progress report as season winds down and it starts getting cold. Started in June, previously noted 64 y.o., 7 index. Now 4.5 index, lowest since my early 30's. All due to this putting process, but not just fewer putts. Putting confidence is leaking back into the rest of my game, more fairways, more GIR. So it's a combination. Things always snowball one way or the other, and it's snowballing now in a good direction. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. This stuff really works!

 

You don't need outside experts, instruction, fancy gizmos. Just follow @Obee's instructions in the beginning of the thread. You can do it on your own.

Edited October 1, 2021 by MrFlipper
Had to add the last paragraph

[Obee]

3 hours ago, MrFlipper said:

Really all I needed was a putting mat, maybe 10 feet long, and a device to put a circle on golf balls so I could be sure I was rolling them correctly as @Obee noted much much earlier in the thread. After that, I felt confident and was off and running.

 

Progress report as season winds down and it starts getting cold. Started in June, previously noted 64 y.o., 7 index. Now 4.5 index, lowest since my early 30's. All due to this putting process, but not just fewer putts. Putting confidence is leaking back into the rest of my game, more fairways, more GIR. So it's a combination. Things always snowball one way or the other, and it's snowballing now in a good direction. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. This stuff really works!

 

You don't need outside experts, instruction, fancy gizmos. Just follow @Obee's instructions in the beginning of the thread. You can do it on your own.

That's what it's all about! Love it!!

[milesgiles]

4 hours ago, Obee said:

That's what it's all about! Love it!!

 

referring to my earlier post (we discussed it a while ago but Ive been away..)

 

8 foot away, 100 balls around the clock.. how many do you hole?

 

* I wanted to keep it as simple as possible, I dont see many golfers who are phenomenal at lag putting and can't hole out..

 

** Takes (at most) 25 mins, I do it in sets of 6 since thats how many will go in the hole at one time

 

*** Im around 40-45 holed.. Id claim to be above average for my handicap, I think.. (could be wrong..)

[Barfolomew]

On 9/4/2018 at 3:38 PM, Obee said:

1. I now use the line on (virtually) all putts.
2. I went to a VERY upright (79 degrees) putter that is 36 inches long
3. I switched to a CLOSED stance, which gives my right arm plenty of room to move DOWN my line (I'm fat and have a big belly)
4. I switched to the claw (the same version that Mickelson uses)

 

I also have come to believe that ALL good putting starts with finding the right "speed of the day" on a straight-in 4-footer. I now practice those more than I have in my entire life. It's pretty much all I practice (when I do, which is rare)

 

Hilarious Obee I'm the complete opposite and puttings my strength... but think technique doesn't matter as long you like it and groove it lol... Only thing is I think is the super bent over guys must hate long practice, I stand upright like Rickie lol

 

1. I think the ball line pigeon holes my line as I adjust over the ball to trust my instincts as a feel putter

2. Prefer a super flat 60* lie at about 41"

3. Open stance

4. trad grip

[vman]

On 9/20/2021 at 10:56 AM, sevenfourate said:

Great thread !
 

I live in a pretty remote location in the U.K and am looking to improve my putting. From Googling it’s a minimum of 140 mile round trip to find / attend a renowned ‘putting specialist’ in person…..

 

I did ask in the Instruction forum here about taking instruction remotely via some sort of live video link (?) -  but as yet had no reply. 

 

Aside from that are there any simple aids I can buy to help me - such as one of the lined / mirrored set up devices to at the very least nail down a solid and repetitive set-up as a first line of attack ???

 

 

For indoor use a 4ft steel ruler is a great aid for a sound stroke and accurate roll feedback. Double it up with a lined ball to visually show end over end roll.

[bladehunter]

On 9/7/2021 at 12:12 PM, ThinkingPlus said:

I have done this for a long time.  Never knew it was supposed to be "bad".  I don't putt as well as I would like to, especially on short putts (ongoing project), but I lag putt pretty well.  Knowing that the putter stroke is sufficient to get the ball to/just past the hole in real time while making the stroke is an advantage.

I do this as well. Didn’t know it was bad.  But I also turn my head with my shoulders on a full Swing and really don’t keep my eye on the ball at all.  I have a pretty big shoulder turn. It’s impossible to keep my  head turned down to the ground.  I also let it go like a David Duval coming through the ball.  As in dont hold  my head down till after impact. It just rotates through .   Wonder I can hit the ball. Lol. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by bladehunter

[Haroputt]

Was a the practice green and trying two methods of putting.  My basic arm-shoulder stroke for putts approximately 12 feet and in  For longer putts I use a “ tap Stroke” with shorter follow through 

I feel that one stroke is smooth i use for short distance and another is more hit for longer distance. 
 

you probably think it should be the other way around. But the point  I asking

what do you think about separate putting routine and setup and stroke mechanics at a certain threshold distance ( for me 12 feet) from the hole? Anyone doing that?

[Nels55]

54 minutes ago, Haroputt said:

Was a the practice green and trying two methods of putting.  My basic arm-shoulder stroke for putts approximately 12 feet and in  For longer putts I use a “ tap Stroke” with shorter follow through 

I feel that one stroke is smooth i use for short distance and another is more hit for longer distance. 
 

you probably think it should be the other way around. But the point  I asking

what do you think about separate putting routine and setup and stroke mechanics at a certain threshold distance ( for me 12 feet) from the hole? Anyone doing that?

That sort of approach has never worked for me because when I am in the grey area in your case approximately 12 feet away which stroke do I use?  Puts doubt in my mind that I should be using the other stroke regardless of which one that I choose.

[Haroputt]

30 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

That sort of approach has never worked for me because when I am in the grey area in your case approximately 12 feet away which stroke do I use?  Puts doubt in my mind that I should be using the other stroke regardless of which one that I choose.

I guess you have to commit to one method or another 

I heard of golfers that tell me they “swing”  putter from most distances than when get closer to the hole, its a “hit stroke” as “speed not as important as line “

Edited October 7, 2021 by Haroputt

[msg]

Thanks Obee for this. I have recently focused on my 5 footers using a carpet at home that sits flat and rolls like a real green. I got it from Ikea for 7 dollars and it has a line printed on it. I also use my Putt Out. I have been putting 50 putts a day indoors for the last week or so and I count how many times my ball veered off line. I also try my best to make as many consecutive straight putts. 

 

I played yesterday and it was unbelievable how much confidence I had standing over 5 - 3 footers. I was just recalling the image of the ball rolling on my carpet and just imagine the stroke that I was doing and trusting that the ball will roll straight. I saved at least 4 strokes. I will work on my 5 footers all winter long and hopefully next season it will bring my handicap lower. 

[Ty_Webb]

Partly saying this because I want to keep this thread front and center and partly because it might help some people. 

 

Putting heads up (i.e. looking at the hole) has been mentioned a little around the place lately. Sasho Mackenzie was discussing it on the Hack It Out podcast. It's an interesting topic. I started doing it a few years ago and stopped because I felt silly. Decided to give it another try. I'm only three rounds in, but my strokes gained putting has improved about 0.9 of a shot over those rounds compared with my last 20. I'm only doing it on putts inside about 10 feet. On the longer ones, I feel like the adjustment of my head angle shifts my shoulder alignment and it feels wonky - like it's hard to bring the putter back far enough to hit a long putt. On short putts though it's great to get my stroke out of my head. I have my routine and go through exactly the same thing, except when I take my second eye trip over the line I stop at the hole and don't come back. If I have a four foot putt that I think is inside right, I'll look at the right quarter of the hole. It's quite fun watching the ball appear and going right where I want it to. It's also great for confidence with the very short ones - watching a 2 foot putt go in the dead center of the hole boosts your confidence the next five footer you have. 

 

It's worth a try for anyone who's struggling - or even not. Next for me is to try to build it into my longer putts where speed is more important than line. 

 

And actually now that I say this, one thing I did find is if I have a putt down a tier where I want the ball to be basically stopped at a particular point well short, it's much easier to look at that point where I want the ball to stop (not quite stop, but you get the picture). I had some good success with putts like that - mainly on the putting green, but I haven't had much chance to do that on the course yet.

[bortass]

What's a realistic make percentage from inside 4 feet? A round a few weeks ago I was 12/15 or 80% from this range. 3 of the made short putts were from the three misses, so I had 12 opportunities to make putts inside 4 feet. I know I need more work in this area but what are reasonable expectations for an amateur that doesn't get to practice for hours on end?

[Haroputt]

Committed to crosshanded at the about the time Spieth was so successful at LHL but I starting to feel that putting grip of the future is claw grip. Will work on that style this winter 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Haroputt

[ThinkingPlus]

14 minutes ago, bortass said:

What's a realistic make percentage from inside 4 feet? A round a few weeks ago I was 12/15 or 80% from this range. 3 of the made short putts were from the three misses, so I had 12 opportunities to make putts inside 4 feet. I know I need more work in this area but what are reasonable expectations for an amateur that doesn't get to practice for hours on end?

I think 14/15 would be a reasonable goal for most ams for inside of 4'.  Pros would be 14.7/15 or more inside of 4'.  If you putt on really poor, bumpy greens it may be hard to achieve 14/15.  The pros would see reduced results if they putted less pure greens, even on short putts.

[PracticeSwinger]

43 minutes ago, bortass said:

What's a realistic make percentage from inside 4 feet? A round a few weeks ago I was 12/15 or 80% from this range. 3 of the made short putts were from the three misses, so I had 12 opportunities to make putts inside 4 feet. I know I need more work in this area but what are reasonable expectations for an amateur that doesn't get to practice for hours on end?

Going purely from a statistical point of view, according to Strokes Gained Putting - and assuming that those 12 opportunities (1st putt) were evenly distributed between : 1, 2, 3 and 4 footers (i.e 3 each from every distance)... scratch putters would make 10.4 (87%) while 7cappers would make 9.6 (80%)... obviously that doesn't take into account a different distribution, if you had 7 tap-ins - those %make would differ

[mhudson111]

2 hours ago, bortass said:

What's a realistic make percentage from inside 4 feet? A round a few weeks ago I was 12/15 or 80% from this range. 3 of the made short putts were from the three misses, so I had 12 opportunities to make putts inside 4 feet. I know I need more work in this area but what are reasonable expectations for an amateur that doesn't get to practice for hours on end?

Here’s PGA Tour performance from a couple years ago

 

DIST.    1PUTT% 2PUTT% 3PUTTS+  AVG.
1 foot      100%    0.0%    0.0%    1.001
2 feet      99%    0.6%    0.1%    1.009
3 feet      95%     4.8%.   0.2%    1.053
4 feet      86%    14%    0.2%    1.147

 

so pros from 3ft and in are much better.  I guess if you don’t want to practice, then you shouldn’t expect their level of results 

[bortass]

21 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I think 14/15 would be a reasonable goal for most ams for inside of 4'.  Pros would be 14.7/15 or more inside of 4'.  If you putt on really poor, bumpy greens it may be hard to achieve 14/15.  The pros would see reduced results if they putted less pure greens, even on short putts.

 

21 hours ago, MtlJayMan said:

Going purely from a statistical point of view, according to Strokes Gained Putting - and assuming that those 12 opportunities (1st putt) were evenly distributed between : 1, 2, 3 and 4 footers (i.e 3 each from every distance)... scratch putters would make 10.4 (87%) while 7cappers would make 9.6 (80%)... obviously that doesn't take into account a different distribution, if you had 7 tap-ins - those %make would differ

 

19 hours ago, mhudson111 said:

Here’s PGA Tour performance from a couple years ago

 

DIST.    1PUTT% 2PUTT% 3PUTTS+  AVG.
1 foot      100%    0.0%    0.0%    1.001
2 feet      99%    0.6%    0.1%    1.009
3 feet      95%     4.8%.   0.2%    1.053
4 feet      86%    14%    0.2%    1.147

 

so pros from 3ft and in are much better.  I guess if you don’t want to practice, then you shouldn’t expect their level of results 

 Thanks for the replies.

 

It's not a question of not wanting to practice but more a question of I only have a few hours a week for practice and have bigger issues than my putting. Even if all I did was work on putting it's a few hours a week at best versus a pro that can spend 8 hours a day honing their craft, not to mention have skills way beyond my level. There are some extremely good putters here and I'm trying to get a rough gauge of what to compare my short putting to in a realistic manner. An analogy would be using GIR to gauge my full swing and expecting to hit 15 GIR a round. Not gonna happen and all I'd do is get frustrated because it's not very realistic.

 

I know I miss putts inside 3 feet but I also know 100% isn't realistic. So I am just trying to get a rough idea of where I stand. Arrcos only breaks things down into 4 bands 0-10 feet being the shortest. I know from outside 3 feet the make percentages start to drop faster the further out you get.

 

Hopefully my rambling makes sense. 

[PracticeSwinger]

1 hour ago, bortass said:

 Thanks for the replies.

 

It's not a question of not wanting to practice but more a question of I only have a few hours a week for practice and have bigger issues than my putting. Even if all I did was work on putting it's a few hours a week at best versus a pro that can spend 8 hours a day honing their craft, not to mention have skills way beyond my level. There are some extremely good putters here and I'm trying to get a rough gauge of what to compare my short putting to in a realistic manner. An analogy would be using GIR to gauge my full swing and expecting to hit 15 GIR a round. Not gonna happen and all I'd do is get frustrated because it's not very realistic.

 

I know I miss putts inside 3 feet but I also know 100% isn't realistic. So I am just trying to get a rough idea of where I stand. Arrcos only breaks things down into 4 bands 0-10 feet being the shortest. I know from outside 3 feet the make percentages start to drop faster the further out you get.

 

Hopefully my rambling makes sense. 

It sure does make sense... and with respect to putting (especially for short-median range) it is very useful to use the SGP calculator, with your handicap range (as we are always comparing our stats to that of Tour pros) to better access where you are at and where to allot practice time... I've recorded strokes this year and know that I'm gaining 0.42 shots for my cap and losing -1.52 shots to scratch overall putting (broke down by distances range)... Along this, I'm losing to scratch roughly a 3 shots from tee to green and 1 through scrambling... so it helps me concentrate on ball striking, which will trickle down and help in every aspect (at least I hope so!)...

[bortass]

8 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

It sure does make sense... and with respect to putting (especially for short-median range) it is very useful to use the SGP calculator, with your handicap range (as we are always comparing our stats to that of Tour pros) to better access where you are at and where to allot practice time... I've recorded strokes this year and know that I'm gaining 0.42 shots for my cap and losing -1.52 shots to scratch overall putting (broke down by distances range)... Along this, I'm losing to scratch roughly a 3 shots from tee to green and 1 through scrambling... so it helps me concentrate on ball striking, which will trickle down and help in every aspect (at least I hope so!)...

Arccos makes it easy for me to use SG to gauge my game. I just changed a setting and the results are interesting. I'm a 22 and use a baseline of a 12 HCP for Arccos to do it's SG calculations. For the last 10 rounds I lose 2.8 strokes compared to a 12 HCP and my biggest issue is 25-50 foot putts where I lose 1.1 stokes. Now if I change it to compare me to a 0 HCP, I lose 5.6 strokes and the biggest issue is putts from 0-10 feet where I lose 2.6 strokes.... I know these numbers don't look great but I've had a few terrible putting rounds recently. If I use my last 50 rounds, my SG compared to a 0 for the short ones is +0.7 and I suck at 10-25 feet, lol.

 

What this tells me is the biggest differentiator in putting are the short ones. A scratch player and a 12 HCP don't have as much variation once you get past 10 feet which makes sense since most of it turns into lag putting and sinking the occasional long one.

 

if nothing else, this turned into an interesting exercise to look at the data differently.

[PracticeSwinger]

53 minutes ago, bortass said:

What this tells me is the biggest differentiator in putting are the short ones. A scratch player and a 12 HCP don't have as much variation once you get past 10 feet which makes sense since most of it turns into lag putting and sinking the occasional long one.

 

if nothing else, this turned into an interesting exercise to look at the data differently.

Interesting to see that the SGP difference between a 0cap and a 7cap has a relative constant gap from all distances - with the biggest jumps coming in at 4ft, 6ft, 7ft, 9ft and 15ft... quickly shows that the [4-9]ft range is a determinant one to lower that cap...

[Obee]

Got in a rare pain-free round yesterday at Santa Ana Country Club. It was warm, and I always seem to be in less pain on/near the coast. Greens were as pure as anything I've ever putted. They were 13.5 yesterday and the week before for a tournament they had them at 14.8. For those of you who have never putted greens that fast and don't believe they exist outside of Major Championships, they do. 🙂

 

24 putts yesterday for a nice 67. 
 

1) GIR 2-putt par from 18 ft. 
 

2) GIR 1-putt birdie from 3 ft. 
 

3) MG 1-putt par from 5 ft. 
 

4) GIR 1-putt birdie from 2 ft.

 

5) GIR 1-putt birdie from 18 ft. 
 

6) GIR 1-putt birdie from 12 ft.

 

7) GIR 1-putt birdie from 27 ft. 
 

8 ) GIR 1-putt par from 8 ft. 
 

9) MG 1-putt par from 2 ft. 
 

10) GIR 1-putt birdie from 12 ft. 
 

11) GIR 2-putt par from 16 ft. 
 

12) MG 1-putt par from 4 ft. 
 

13) MG 2-putt bogey from 8 ft. 
 

14) GIR 2-putt par from 21 ft.

 

15) MG 1-putt par from 1 ft. 
 

16) MG 1-putt par from 5 ft. 
 

17) MG 2-putt bogey from 35 ft.

 

18) GIR 2-putt birdie from 12 ft. 
 

~115 feet of putts made. Was really locked in and grinding playing a match against my good friend who is SACC's club champ. I played from 6500ish. He played from 6900ish. I had him 6-down through six and he battled back to be only one down going into 18. Had a blast.

 

Now the tough part will be taking my stroke from those lightning greens to Rustic Canyon tomorrow, which will probably be 10ish. Need to get there early and hone my stroke!
 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Obee
typo

[Nels55]

Great round Obee!  Terrific putting!  Going from fast to slow can be really tough though.  LOL the only time I putt on greens that fast when I practice on the vinyl kitchen floor!

[Obee]

Who has a good SGP program I can use? Want to start tracking my putting again. Thanks in advance!!