El Tucan Speaks..... (NO POLITICS)

[snizzle]

I was actually embarrassed for Kuchar reading his remarks justifying this.

[jmvargas]

Kuchar has every right to feel the way he does. You gotta respect that. He just lacks self-awareness to see tons of people will look at him as a cheap chump from now on.

 

 

Agree on the first 2 sentences and the 3rd sentence is just another way of saying he's in DENIAL...

[lowheel]

lol.. So now he has 2 gofundme pages.

 

its actually up to 4 gofund mes and for whopping total of 1700$!!! youd think with all the grandstanding here hed be a millionaire with all the (alleged) generous tippers...

[rangersgoalie]

lol.. So now he has 2 gofundme pages.

 

its actually up to 4 gofund mes and for whopping total of 1700$!!! youd think with all the grandstanding here hed be a millionaire with all the (alleged) generous tippers...

 

We are spending other people’s money, not our own.......cmon get with the program! :)

[jmvargas]

Let's assume for argument's sake that there WAS an agreement for $4k max. At least in Kuchar's mind because maybe El Tucan didn't full comprehend it.

 

So what? Kuchar probably didn't make the agreement with the idea of winning in mind. He hadn't won in over 3 years.

 

Just because he might be able to get away with only paying $4-$5k total, doesn't mean it was the right thing or the common sense thing to do.

 

It's like if you're selling a painting that we both think is worth $100. I buy it from you. Then I find an unexpected autograph from the painter that was hidden under the canvas. That autograph makes the painting in fact worth $10,000. A decent person would say wow, let me give you another $1,000+ at least. A "different" kind of person would say, "sorry, a deal's a deal". And then there's Kuch, who would give you $20.

 

I gotta say your analogies have been terrible this entire thread

 

 

I disagree...in the TV series "The Pickers" I remember at least 2 episodes where Mike Wolfe and his sidekick Frank found out that an item they bought was worth much more than what they paid for after having them appraised and they gave back part of the additional proceeds to the seller when they had no legal obligation to do so because they felt it was the right thing to do....

[cdnglf]

Let's assume for argument's sake that there WAS an agreement for $4k max. At least in Kuchar's mind because maybe El Tucan didn't full comprehend it.

 

So what? Kuchar probably didn't make the agreement with the idea of winning in mind. He hadn't won in over 3 years.

 

Just because he might be able to get away with only paying $4-$5k total, doesn't mean it was the right thing or the common sense thing to do.

 

It's like if you're selling a painting that we both think is worth $100. I buy it from you. Then I find an unexpected autograph from the painter that was hidden under the canvas. That autograph makes the painting in fact worth $10,000. A decent person would say wow, let me give you another $1,000+ at least. A "different" kind of person would say, "sorry, a deal's a deal". And then there's Kuch, who would give you $20.

 

I gotta say your analogies have been terrible this entire thread

 

 

I disagree...in the TV series "The Pickers" I remember at least 2 episodes where Mike Wolfe and his sidekick Frank found out that an item they bought was worth much more than what they paid for after having them appraised and they gave back part of the additional proceeds to the seller when they had no legal obligation to do so because they felt it was the right thing to do....

 

But what would the Pawn Stars do?

[lowheel]

Let's assume for argument's sake that there WAS an agreement for $4k max. At least in Kuchar's mind because maybe El Tucan didn't full comprehend it.

 

So what? Kuchar probably didn't make the agreement with the idea of winning in mind. He hadn't won in over 3 years.

 

Just because he might be able to get away with only paying $4-$5k total, doesn't mean it was the right thing or the common sense thing to do.

 

It's like if you're selling a painting that we both think is worth $100. I buy it from you. Then I find an unexpected autograph from the painter that was hidden under the canvas. That autograph makes the painting in fact worth $10,000. A decent person would say wow, let me give you another $1,000+ at least. A "different" kind of person would say, "sorry, a deal's a deal". And then there's Kuch, who would give you $20.

 

I gotta say your analogies have been terrible this entire thread

 

 

I disagree...in the TV series "The Pickers" I remember at least 2 episodes where Mike Wolfe and his sidekick Frank found out that an item they bought was worth much more than what they paid for after having them appraised and they gave back part of the additional proceeds to the seller when they had no legal obligation to do so because they felt it was the right thing to do....

 

Yeah, because its a tv series not because theyre virtuous. Its all PR

[bigchucksr]

The only way to make this right for folks who think Tucan was wrong is for someone to set up a gofundme account.

 

Those on the high morale grounds should contribute.

 

I'll stay on the sideline on principle(not cuz I'm cheap)

I'm cheap too so I'll sit on the sideline with you and watch the "I just care so much" socially conscience bunch satisfy their wounded souls with healthy contributions to this abused caddy. I'm betting we never hear the security number on their Discover card typed at go fund me.

[lowheel]

lol.. So now he has 2 gofundme pages.

 

its actually up to 4 gofund mes and for whopping total of 1700$!!! youd think with all the grandstanding here hed be a millionaire with all the (alleged) generous tippers...

 

We are spending other people’s money, not our own.......cmon get with the program! :)

 

If moral preening was a sport there would be a ton of millionaires out there!!

 

[lowheel]

Let's assume for argument's sake that there WAS an agreement for $4k max. At least in Kuchar's mind because maybe El Tucan didn't full comprehend it.

 

So what? Kuchar probably didn't make the agreement with the idea of winning in mind. He hadn't won in over 3 years.

 

Just because he might be able to get away with only paying $4-$5k total, doesn't mean it was the right thing or the common sense thing to do.

 

It's like if you're selling a painting that we both think is worth $100. I buy it from you. Then I find an unexpected autograph from the painter that was hidden under the canvas. That autograph makes the painting in fact worth $10,000. A decent person would say wow, let me give you another $1,000+ at least. A "different" kind of person would say, "sorry, a deal's a deal". And then there's Kuch, who would give you $20.

 

I gotta say your analogies have been terrible this entire thread

 

 

I disagree...in the TV series "The Pickers" I remember at least 2 episodes where Mike Wolfe and his sidekick Frank found out that an item they bought was worth much more than what they paid for after having them appraised and they gave back part of the additional proceeds to the seller when they had no legal obligation to do so because they felt it was the right thing to do....

 

But what would the Pawn Stars do?

 

[PZero]

"I think if you ask locker room attendants, they’ll tell you that they’re happy to see me. I’m no Phil Mickelson, but these guys are like, 'Matt’s coming our way.’"

 

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/02/14/matt-kuchar-caddie-pay-controversy/

 

More like they're saying that as a warning.

[OldTomMorris]

The player defending it looks bad for the PGA Tour as it doesn't fit with their image.

 

Maybe the next time a stand in caddy is required then this player is denied, caddy power.

[Steele47]

"I'm no Phil Mickelson but these guys are like 'Matt's coming our way'" lol... He's a real piece of work.

[jmvargas]

"I'm no Phil Mickelson but these guys are like 'Matt's coming our way'" lol... He's a real piece of work.

 

 

Wow!!...I am in awe of his denial statements disguised as a defense for his stinginess..

[buckeyefl]

"I'm no Phil Mickelson but these guys are like 'Matt's coming our way'" lol... He's a real piece of work.

 

 

Wow!!...I am in awe of his denial statements disguised as a defense for his stinginess..

 

Stinginess, lol. Wow

[buckeyefl]

It really sounds to me there was a bonus structure agreed to that probably ended with "and if I finish top 10, I will throw you another $1,000. It probably didn't go any further than that...nothing about top 5 and obviously nothing about a specific percentage of the winners check. Tucan probably thought at the time....sure, extra G for top 10 sounds good to me.

 

Then when Tucan saw the winners check, he probably figured -- Man, Kuch has to give e a little bonus based off cashing in on $1.3 mil. Tucan opens envelope and its an extra G on top of the agreed amount. Tucan prob thinks...well, he will probably send me more later with a big thank you basket. Kuch thinks...5,000 is a good payday for the little guy (kuch even says this now in the Golfchannel story). Tucan stews and stews, nothing ever comes. Stories in Nov. about a payday. More stewing and it finally hits social media and boom -- parties dig in and we have a media firestorm.

 

No, Kuchar took advantage of the guy.

 

No he really didn't.

[soregongolfer]

It really sounds to me there was a bonus structure agreed to that probably ended with "and if I finish top 10, I will throw you another $1,000. It probably didn't go any further than that...nothing about top 5 and obviously nothing about a specific percentage of the winners check. Tucan probably thought at the time....sure, extra G for top 10 sounds good to me.

 

Then when Tucan saw the winners check, he probably figured -- Man, Kuch has to give e a little bonus based off cashing in on $1.3 mil. Tucan opens envelope and its an extra G on top of the agreed amount. Tucan prob thinks...well, he will probably send me more later with a big thank you basket. Kuch thinks...5,000 is a good payday for the little guy (kuch even says this now in the Golfchannel story). Tucan stews and stews, nothing ever comes. Stories in Nov. about a payday. More stewing and it finally hits social media and boom -- parties dig in and we have a media firestorm.

 

No, Kuchar took advantage of the guy.

 

No he really didn't.

 

Yes, he really did.

 

I don't think Kuchar is going to have any fun in Mexico next week.

[Lottaouts]

Now I actually dislike Kouche even more than his Dad.

 

I wonder if the frat boys on 16 at the Waste Management tourney found a creative way to ridicule El Cheapo ?

 

Didn't Frank Zappa have a song about people like Kuchar ?

[Always_rough]

Kuchar thinks he wanted more because someone told him he deserved more... Or maybe it was just common sense telling El Tucan he should have had a lawyer review his contract.

 

However, it feels unfair. It feels as if Kuchar had way more bargaining power than El Tucan, and the caddie most likely wouldn't have known what a normal Tour caddie makes. But what a lot of people don't consider is the fact that we have no idea how helpful the guy was to Kuchar's win. I know Kuchar made a couple statements like the guy was his lucky charm or whatever, but maybe he really didn't do a good job? Who knows.

 

All I know is to never trust someone wearing Skechers golf shoes.

[OldTomMorris]

Yes, he really did.

 

Yes of course he did. Kuchar gets a stand in caddy at an event in the US and wins with $1.296M first prize, no way he pays the caddy $5000.

 

Kuchar saying its a great week is garbage. Regular caddy would have walked away with $129600, of course NO WAY DOES A STAND IN CADDY GET 10% but 0.385% is being stiffed and Kuchar's slippery response when the story first broke a number of weeks ago indicated so.

[jmvargas]

I really hope some tour pros are reading or following this thread and learn something..

[DBill]

I really hope some tour pros are reading or following this thread and learn something..

 

Dear diary, they are not.

[DBill]

Skechers are still comfortable BTW.

[Ferguson]

Excuse me, Mr. Kuchar - this is not an all-inclusive cruise. You need to pay for that Pink Lady.

 

 

 

[aliikane]

I think El Toucan shot himself in the foot by making this public and asking for more money than what they agreed upon. Not only did he burn the bridge with Kuchar to get hired again, I doubt many tour pros would want hire him next year unless absolutely necessary. El Toucan could just use it as a learning experience and in the future just ask for a guaranteed pay and a cut of the winnings (which he didn't with Kuchar). I'm sure he was happy to get "3K Guaranteed" before the tournament started.

[jerebear21]

This really is just a case of sellers remorse. The guy sold his service/goods for at said cost. Then finds out his goods were worth more.

 

Given the circumstances I thought it was proper for kuch to give him an extra 15k. It just so happens he didn’t want it.

 

Would I have done things differently? Probably so. But unlike tucan I wouldn’t be a crybaby about it. I’d be happy to caddy for 5k as is. And before someone knocks me on that I’ll be caddying at a pro am this summer for free. But I don’t think there’s any glory or money in that to negotiate.

[OldTomMorris]

This really is just a case of sellers remorse. The guy sold his service/goods for at said cost. Then finds out his goods were worth more.

 

Given the circumstances I thought it was proper for kuch to give him an extra 15k. It just so happens he didn't want it.

 

Would I have done things differently? Probably so. But unlike tucan I wouldn't be a crybaby about it. I'd be happy to caddy for 5k as is. And before someone knocks me on that I'll be caddying at a pro am this summer for free. But I don't think there's any glory or money in that to negotiate.

 

Completely disagree.

 

Despite not being on the PGA Tour as a regular he's a career caddy its how he earns his living so with respect the anecdote isn't relevant.

 

He knows a stand in caddy at a PGA Tour event would have gotten way more than $5K when the player pockets $1.296M for the win.

 

Why didn't they pay him $20K at the outset then? They know he was stiffed but didn't count on the bad PR.

[Under2hours]

Here is the quote & most of the story from Sergio's Fill in Caddie...... Read closely that he did very little & would get $76,000 + a tip..... Kuch exploited the man and happy for him he can sleep well at night.

 

“My role was basically to just stay out of the way,” Faircloth said Tuesday on “Morning Drive.” “He pretty much did everything.”<p>

 

Faircloth carried the bag, obviously, and he tended the flag, and he held the umbrella, and he cleaned the clubs. What he didn’t do, however, was calculate yardages or read putts. Said Garcia, “I just wanted to have someone who carried the bag, pretty much. He did push me around a little bit sometimes, offered encouragement, but I wanted to do my own thing to work on my confidence, and it worked well.”

Did it ever.

 

Garcia, with Faircloth alongside, rolled to a two-stroke win Monday at the Wyndham, giving the Spaniard his first title on U.S. soil in more than four years. Tony Navarro, caddie for Bud Cauley, grabbed the flag from 18 and handed it to the rookie looper.

 

“It was just a wonderful opportunity, the ride was just unbelievable, and it’s something that I’ll never forget,” Faircloth said. “It’s not every day you get to jump on the bag of one of the best in the world.”

Now comes the interesting part. Garcia’s victory came with a $960,000 payday. A typical caddie gets a 10 percent cut ($96,000, in this instance), but Garcia was non-committal about Faircloth’s share afterward.

“He’ll probably get 75 (thousand) and a tip,” Garcia said Monday, laughing, before adding, “He’s going to be happy with what he gets. Obviously he’s not going to get what a normal caddie would get, because his job was fairly easy. But he’ll be happy with whatever he gets.”

Of course he will. But hey, show the guy some love!

[John L.]

I think "Kuch" was a bit light on the overall payoff, but that is his prerogative since there was no firm set numbers discussed about the bonus.

 

The caddie is beyond obnoxious with his faux honor BS.

 

Neither party came out of this looking good.

[jerebear21]

So you’re faulting them for not paying 20k at the outset as well?

 

D@mn if you do. D@mn if you don’t.

 

I think kuch said it best. You really can’t satisfy everyone. 20k is fair amount given the agreement.

 

Clearly a lot of passion amongst team cheap and team charity. All is good.