El Tucan Speaks..... (NO POLITICS)

[OldTomMorris]

So you're faulting them for not paying 20k at the outset as well?

 

Absolutely 100%, if he got a fair rate at the outset this whole story never happens. Fill in caddies have won on PGA Tour in recent times and I don't recall this kind of fallout.

 

It's not charity he was doing a job and its about fairness.

 

I'll repeat from earlier, there is no way if Kuchar or any other player for that matter gets a fill in caddy at a PGA Tour event in the US and wins with a $1.296M that the caddy only gets $5000. There is clearly precedent and Kuch didn't even come close to it.

[sevenputts]

What a cheap bastxxx.

[jerebear21]

An agreement is an agreement. There’s already a line in the sand on Tuesday.

 

Anything after that doesn’t matter. Anything more on top of that is icing on the cake.

 

Lots of livelihood depends on good faith. I respect your passion on it. But from a business standpoint it doesn’t make sense. Put me on team cheap even though I’m not really cheap.

[sevenputts]

By the way thumbs up to Phil Mickelson.

[OldTomMorris]

I bet Justin Rose didn't pay his caddy at Farmers Insurance 0.385% and Sergio won at Wyndham a few years back with a fill in caddy.

[OldTomMorris]

But from a business standpoint it doesn't make sense.

 

You could argue he's damaged him brand with negative publicly based on the fact that in some ways he used the "agreement" as a fallback to get out of paying a fair rate - thats a bad business decision. At minimum it's been an unnecessary distraction not ideal preparation for playing on PGA Tour so again its hurt his business.

 

I don't see it as a battle of cheap vs charity, 100% about fairness.

[Under2hours]

Kuchar has every right to feel the way he does. You gotta respect that. He just lacks self-awareness to see tons of people will look at him as a cheap chump from now on.

Many will think much worse of him.

[dcmidnight]

Personally I think they both look bad. But I'm glad Kuchar finally spoke up about this.

 

I think Kuchar is absolutely right about someone getting in his ear.

 

But Kuchar also isnt trying to hide from his cheap-a deal either. So at least he's standing up and admitting it - such as it is. Which is fine, for all I know that could be the standard stand in caddie deal on tour. At least we aren't wondering anymore what the "other side" of the deal was.

 

Aside from the "feel good" stand in stories, I'd like to know what the average deal is. Stand in caddies have to get used every week on tour right? I can only think of one person on here who would know the average deal from first hand knowledge. But I would be interested to know if that kind of arrangement is common.

 

One thing I've learned over my life/career is I try to never judge how people spend - or dont spend - their money. I realize other people are more than happy to. Its just something I try to stay away from.

[nikeblades00]

there are a couple stories dated 11-13 november that talk about how tucan was going to cash in. One November story stated while he may not get the full 10 percent a regular caddie might get, but would still hit it big or something

 

 

11 november

 

https://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/2018/11/11/matt-kuchar-wins-local-caddie-cashes-in/

 

business insider 12 nov talking how tucan won up to 120K

https://www.businessinsider.com/matt-kuchar-mayakoba-payout-el-tucan-caddie-2018-11

 

Great find!!! This is too funny and even quotes kuchar as saying how excited he is for el tucan after this big week!!!!!

[Under2hours]

"I think if you ask locker room attendants, they’ll tell you that they’re happy to see me. I’m no Phil Mickelson, but these guys are like, 'Matt’s coming our way.’"

 

https://www.golf.com...ay-controversy/

 

More like they're saying that as a warning.

So Matt knows all about the tipping practices for Locker room attendents (btw it is mandated and PGA players are trained as to acceptable amounts)..... Interesting Kuch understands that but doesn't see what he did in Mayakoba as a big deal. Talk about completely oblivious.

 

BTW a puff piece that again did not ask the real questions as to what is proper.

 

Very interesting that local Caddies at the US Open (or was it the PGA) that was referenced earlier in the thread, that have a scale that they are paid that includes % of winnings, which I'm sure every PGA player is told and made aware of.

 

The deeper you dig the easier it is to see Matt is full of it.

[Jackhammer993]

People supporting Kuchar on this seem to fall into 3 categories

1. Defense attorney types- will support negative actions or behaviors by justifying what was done through legalese.

2. Cheapskates who say they are not cheapskates

3. Those who feel people in the service industry deserve less than what is fair or that less is fair.

Judging by Matt’s reaction he feels what he did is ok and is moving forward. The only thing that may make him give this a second thought would be loss of a sponsor which for him would be Skechers or Bridgestone and most likely that will not happen. With a great field at Riviera this story has probably run its course.. Time for some real golf.

[Frostfield]

My God the nerve of some people here defending Matt. Is he within his rights having stuck with the prior agreement? Of course! Is he the cheapest player on the PGA Tour? Sure looks like it. I sure wouldn’t want to hang with any of you cheapskates. #FacePalm

[JohnnyCashForever]

With apologies to Helen Slater...

[jerebear21]

My God the nerve of some people here defending Matt. Is he within his rights having stuck with the prior agreement? Of course! Is he the cheapest player on the PGA Tour? Sure looks like it. I sure wouldn’t want to hang with any of you cheapskates. #FacePalm

 

Hey now. Let’s not get too personal here.

 

That gofundme account is holding steady at $10.

[nikeblades00]

Im sorry to say this but I hope karma bites Kuchar squarely in the a** very soon!

[dropkicked]

Skechers is a brand that extends beyond Golf shoes, yes? Millennial's buy a lot of shoes.. Potential connection? I also know of many millennial golfers who also use social media and are members of this forum...

 

Not many millenials are busting down doors to buy the latest skecher sneaker. Not sure if you're aware.

Why, because they can all afford to spend $1000 on jordan's?

How many Millennials do you know or interact with daily? In my profession, i deal with them daily.. I employee a few as well.

Skechers had endorsements with Meghan Trainor a few years back, they've signed a bunch of K-Pop stars for international exposure to attract millennial's (shock). They also recently signed Camilla Cabelo...

In 2018, Skechers set new sales records..

https://investors.skechers.com/press-releases/detail/363/skechers-achieves-new-second-quarter-2018-sales-record

 

Do those of you who've harped on this truly believe that a bunch of 55+ y/o, golfers are driving these sales?

[Holy Moses]

I think El Toucan shot himself in the foot by making this public and asking for more money than what they agreed upon. Not only did he burn the bridge with Kuchar to get hired again, I doubt many tour pros would want hire him next year unless absolutely necessary. El Toucan could just use it as a learning experience and in the future just ask for a guaranteed pay and a cut of the winnings (which he didn't with Kuchar). I'm sure he was happy to get "3K Guaranteed" before the tournament started.

 

Tucan didn’t make this public, Gillis did. Tucan was emailing Steiny privately.

[Holy Moses]

I bet Justin Rose didn't pay his caddy at Farmers Insurance 0.385% and Sergio won at Wyndham a few years back with a fill in caddy.

 

Supposedly Sergio paid his caddie 7% plus a tip

[slide13]

My God the nerve of some people here defending Matt. Is he within his rights having stuck with the prior agreement? Of course! Is he the cheapest player on the PGA Tour? Sure looks like it. I sure wouldn’t want to hang with any of you cheapskates. #FacePalm

 

Hey now. Let’s not get too personal here.

 

That gofundme account is holding steady at $10.

 

 

This ones at $1800.

 

https://www.gofundme.com/Pass-The-Can-For-Tucan

 

[OldTomMorris]

The "agreement" is likely a smokescreen, extremely doubtful Kuchar said even if we win the $1.296M you get a flat fee of $5000 regardless. Yes its a good faith agreement PGA Tour caddy gigs which makes it even more important to do the right and fair thing, there is precedent.

 

The amount is up for debate. Is it 2%, 5% etc. who knows but 0.385% is definitely stiffing someone. A lot of doublespeak from Kuchar since the story first broke especially his initial comments.

[braincramp52]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

[Forged4ever]

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/matt-kuchar-defends-decision-pay-caddie-5k-after-mayakoba-win

 

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/02/14/matt-kuchar-caddie-pay-controversy/

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳️

RP

[Hawkeye77]

Well...now we really do know what they were both thinking in this pic. Their faces definitely tell the story.

 

El Tucan -- S*@#T, Why didn't I make sure I got a decent percentage if he actually won the whole damn thing.

 

Kuch -- Thank goodness I didn't promise the full 10%, if I actually won the whole darn thing.

 

 

 

Wonder if he got to keep the flag to remember Kuch by..

 

After Tucan fails to sell the flag for $15k, it will be on Ebay.

 

Kuch rented it to him.

[jerebear21]

My God the nerve of some people here defending Matt. Is he within his rights having stuck with the prior agreement? Of course! Is he the cheapest player on the PGA Tour? Sure looks like it. I sure wouldn’t want to hang with any of you cheapskates. #FacePalm

 

Hey now. Let’s not get too personal here.

 

That gofundme account is holding steady at $10.

 

 

This ones at $1800.

 

https://www.gofundme...e-Can-For-Tucan

 

i'll match your contribution.

[OldTomMorris]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

 

I get no pleasure from seeing a worker get stiffed regardless of where the story got traction.

 

Deals should be done with contracts when it involves that scale of money but seems like (some) PGA Tour players want their cake and to eat it too.

[braincramp52]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

 

I get no pleasure from seeing a worker get stiffed regardless of where the story got traction.

 

Deals should be done with contracts when it involves that scale of money but seems like (some) PGA Tour players want their cake and to eat it too.

 

There's a big difference between a resort caddy and a Tour caddy. The dude could have said No Thanks to Kuchar.

[cxx]

The thing that seems off about Tucan's supporters is the idea that he was incapable of handling himself in this situation. Some interloper had to get involved to help him. This incredible bias/racism at the core of their arguments go unnoticed by those supposedly "just trying to help".

[Mr. Grumpy]

Man,, this thread has turned into a 24/7 "GolfWRX Like" generator..

[ctwatkins]

I've been reading this for two days, so I might as well go ahead and throw my hat in the ring on the side of the minority. Kuchar made a verbal business agreement . . . shook hands . . . played golf for a week . . . Kuchar paid the dude the agreed to amount . . . their partnership for the week is done and Kuchar has honored the agreement. That's what MEN do. MEN make a promise on a handshake and MEN follow through, which is exactly what Kuchar did. MEN don't act like whiny little b%*@* and go back on their promise and handshake because something is "not fair" and drag the fairness issue through the court of public opinion. The fair is a place you go to ride the ferris wheel and throw baseballs at cupie dolls. The fair is not a place in the real world. Kuchar's job was to play golf and honor his MEN'S handshake with the caddie, not to change his life forever (i.e., buy him a house, buy him a car, send his kids to college).

[OldTomMorris]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

 

I get no pleasure from seeing a worker get stiffed regardless of where the story got traction.

 

Deals should be done with contracts when it involves that scale of money but seems like (some) PGA Tour players want their cake and to eat it too.

 

There's a big difference between a resort caddy and a Tour caddy. The dude could have said No Thanks to Kuchar.

 

 

So it's OK to stiff a resort caddy because he's not part of the PGA Tour clique, thats fair.