El Tucan Speaks..... (NO POLITICS)

[Stonedude]

Sad to see this whole situation really. Was a Kooch fan, but I have a serious problem with cheapf**ks.

 

Yes he may have been right with a supposed contract, I'm sure based on planning for a so-so finish. Then he goes on and wins the tournament. He acts as if because of the country he was in, he can use the 'it's a good week' for him quote. As if to take advantage of the situation.

 

He should have just paid his agreed upon amount and tipped 20k. What a ******, if his piece of mind is fine with what happened then he is even worse than I give him credit for.

[Holy Moses]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

 

Kuchar already tried to pay him $15k more after Gillis’ tweet and the ensuing media storm

[deadsolid...shank]

Let's assume for argument's sake that there WAS an agreement for $4k max. At least in Kuchar's mind because maybe El Tucan didn't full comprehend it.

 

So what? Kuchar probably didn't make the agreement with the idea of winning in mind. He hadn't won in over 3 years.

 

Just because he might be able to get away with only paying $4-$5k total, doesn't mean it was the right thing or the common sense thing to do.

 

It's like if you're selling a painting that we both think is worth $100. I buy it from you. Then I find an unexpected autograph from the painter that was hidden under the canvas. That autograph makes the painting in fact worth $10,000. A decent person would say wow, let me give you another $1,000+ at least. A "different" kind of person would say, "sorry, a deal's a deal". And then there's Kuch, who would give you $20.

 

No, not a chance. Unless you’re friends or have a relationship that is more than casual, that deal was done when the $100 changed hands. You can say some, many, or most people would go back and give extra money, but the reality is that’s not happening. The seller had just as much opportunity to uncover that signature as the buyer. Why is so difficult to honor the details of an original agreement when something changes after the fact?

[cxx]

So why aren't all you guys tipping the bag boy at the club thousands of dollars? You've got more than they they do. Is that fair? It would change that guys life. What holds you back?

[Stonedude]

As for the Men do comment.

 

 

I'm a contractor and have a good number of projects that I estimate and are agreed upon, then I'm hired.

Once into a few of them, I realize that the depth of work is not going to be that hard and I lower the bill without being asked. Why? Cause Men do what's right. Period

[deadsolid...shank]

I really hope some tour pros are reading or following this thread and learn something..

 

They certainly are, get every detail ironed out explicitly beforehand, and get it in writing.

[Dpavs]

Just picked up some Skechers shoes, damn they are comfy.

 

Funny, I heard they were a little tight.

[jerebear21]

As for the Men do comment.

 

 

I'm a contractor and have a good number of projects that I estimate and are agreed upon, then I'm hired.

Once into a few of them, I realize that the depth of work is not going to be that hard and I lower the bill without being asked. Why? Cause Men do what's right. Period

 

and in contrast when I had one of my offices renovated the contractor kept adding more AFTER our agreement. You see how things can keep spinning based on one's perspective?

 

the only thing that's clear and true is what was initially agreed upon.

[Mr. Grumpy]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

 

I get no pleasure from seeing a worker get stiffed regardless of where the story got traction.

 

Deals should be done with contracts when it involves that scale of money but seems like (some) PGA Tour players want their cake and to eat it too.

 

There's a big difference between a resort caddy and a Tour caddy. The dude could have said No Thanks to Kuchar.

 

 

So it's OK to stiff a resort caddy because he's not part of the PGA Tour clique, thats fair.

 

He did not stiff a resort caddy,, nor did he say that... Get with it man.. Matt did what they agreed to,, but some feel what was agreed upon was not enough because Matt added almost a Mil to his wealth after taxes..

[OldTomMorris]

I've been reading this for two days, so I might as well go ahead and throw my hat in the ring on the side of the minority. Kuchar made a verbal business agreement . . . shook hands . . . played golf for a week . . . Kuchar paid the dude the agreed to amount . . . their partnership for the week is done and Kuchar has honored the agreement. That's what MEN do. MEN make a promise on a handshake and MEN follow through, which is exactly what Kuchar did. MEN don't act like whiny little b%*@* and go back on their promise and handshake because something is "not fair" and drag the fairness issue through the court of public opinion. The fair is a place you go to ride the ferris wheel and throw baseballs at cupie dolls. The fair is not a place in the real world. Kuchar's job was to play golf and honor his MEN'S handshake with the caddie, not to change his life forever (i.e., buy him a house, buy him a car, send his kids to college).

 

We don't know how comprehensive the agreement was. The precedent is a caddy gets a cut of a win, no fill in should expect 10%, so are you saying if that exact nature of that element isn't discussed in precise detail then there is no obligation despite the precedent to do the right and fair thing.

 

Caddy payment is largely dependent on outcome so unless Kuchar explicitly said regardless of a win or not its a flat fee then he shirked his obligation to do the fair thing.

 

The fair is not a place in the real world.

 

Yes it does, there will be a rough guide as to a fair or market rate for PGA Tour caddies. Just like there is a market rate for any job, under no circumstances in 0.385% a market rate for a caddy in a PGA Tour win even a fill in caddy based on precedent.

[deadsolid...shank]

If I'm guilty of 'righteous condemnation' for calling Kuchar cheap, then cool.. Sign me up!

 

Damn, I was really hoping people would be able to read between the lines, so to speak, or in this case, before the words......and add in the word “self”.

[cxx]

Just picked up some Skechers shoes, damn they are comfy.

 

Funny, I heard they were a little tight.

That is funny.

[cdnglf]

So why aren't all you guys tipping the bag boy at the club thousands of dollars? You've got more than they they do. Is that fair? It would change that guys life. What holds you back?

 

I'll take False Equivalences for .38%, Alex.

[jj9000]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

 

I get no pleasure from seeing a worker get stiffed regardless of where the story got traction.

 

Deals should be done with contracts when it involves that scale of money but seems like (some) PGA Tour players want their cake and to eat it too.

 

There's a big difference between a resort caddy and a Tour caddy. The dude could have said No Thanks to Kuchar.

 

 

So it's OK to stiff a resort caddy because he's not part of the PGA Tour clique, thats fair.

 

Take a look at the phone you're typing on.

 

So it's OK for Apple or (insert Android here) to outsource the components of your cellphone to China for pennies on the dollar in comparison to US labor...because those folks are located in China as opposed to the USA.

 

When are you going to give up your phone in the name of faux-morality and fairness?

 

The irony is uncanny.

[Hawkeye77]

The thing that seems off about Tucan's supporters is the idea that he was incapable of handling himself in this situation. Some interloper had to get involved to help him. This incredible bias/racism at the core of their arguments go unnoticed by those supposedly "just trying to help".

 

No, your ridiculous accusation is just that.

 

That facts are he's had plenty of assistance. Whether he really "wanted" to handle this is an open question as is their levels of assistance. Take that undertone somewhere else, it's not in this thread.

 

Nobody is suggesting anyone trying to help him is racist, except you. Come on now, you know better!

[deadsolid...shank]

Let's assume for argument's sake that there WAS an agreement for $4k max. At least in Kuchar's mind because maybe El Tucan didn't full comprehend it.

 

So what? Kuchar probably didn't make the agreement with the idea of winning in mind. He hadn't won in over 3 years.

 

Just because he might be able to get away with only paying $4-$5k total, doesn't mean it was the right thing or the common sense thing to do.

 

It's like if you're selling a painting that we both think is worth $100. I buy it from you. Then I find an unexpected autograph from the painter that was hidden under the canvas. That autograph makes the painting in fact worth $10,000. A decent person would say wow, let me give you another $1,000+ at least. A "different" kind of person would say, "sorry, a deal's a deal". And then there's Kuch, who would give you $20.

 

I gotta say your analogies have been terrible this entire thread

 

 

I disagree...in the TV series "The Pickers" I remember at least 2 episodes where Mike Wolfe and his sidekick Frank found out that an item they bought was worth much more than what they paid for after having them appraised and they gave back part of the additional proceeds to the seller when they had no legal obligation to do so because they felt it was the right thing to do....

 

Yeah, because its a tv series not because theyre virtuous. Its all PR

 

Well, they never stage anything on reality TV, so it must be true.

[cdnglf]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

 

I get no pleasure from seeing a worker get stiffed regardless of where the story got traction.

 

Deals should be done with contracts when it involves that scale of money but seems like (some) PGA Tour players want their cake and to eat it too.

 

There's a big difference between a resort caddy and a Tour caddy. The dude could have said No Thanks to Kuchar.

 

 

So it's OK to stiff a resort caddy because he's not part of the PGA Tour clique, thats fair.

 

Take a look at the phone you're typing on.

 

So it's OK for Apple or (insert Android here) to outsource the components of your cellphone to China for pennies on the dollar in comparison to US labor...because those folks are located in China as opposed to the USA.

 

When are you going to give up your phone in the name of faux-morality and fairness?

 

The irony is uncanny.

 

I'll take False Equivalences for "Not $3k and not 10%", Alex.

[cxx]

The thing that seems off about Tucan's supporters is the idea that he was incapable of handling himself in this situation. Some interloper had to get involved to help him. This incredible bias/racism at the core of their arguments go unnoticed by those supposedly "just trying to help".

 

No, your stupid and ridiculous accusation is just that.

 

That facts are he's had plenty of assistance. Whether he really "wanted" to handle this is an open question as is their levels of assistance. Take that undertone somewhere else, it's not in this thread.

 

That's an overtone, nothing under about it.

[braincramp52]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

 

I get no pleasure from seeing a worker get stiffed regardless of where the story got traction.

 

Deals should be done with contracts when it involves that scale of money but seems like (some) PGA Tour players want their cake and to eat it too.

 

There's a big difference between a resort caddy and a Tour caddy. The dude could have said No Thanks to Kuchar.

 

 

So it's OK to stiff a resort caddy because he's not part of the PGA Tour clique, thats fair.

Did he not get paid? In my world if you stiff someone you don't pay them anything.

[krtgolfing]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

 

I get no pleasure from seeing a worker get stiffed regardless of where the story got traction.

 

Deals should be done with contracts when it involves that scale of money but seems like (some) PGA Tour players want their cake and to eat it too.

 

There's a big difference between a resort caddy and a Tour caddy. The dude could have said No Thanks to Kuchar.

 

 

So it's OK to stiff a resort caddy because he's not part of the PGA Tour clique, thats fair.

 

Except he was not stiffed. Any resort caddie would be excited to make $5,000 for 4 days of work. They had a deal before the week and he paid that amount. What is the problem?

[Hawkeye77]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

 

I get no pleasure from seeing a worker get stiffed regardless of where the story got traction.

 

Deals should be done with contracts when it involves that scale of money but seems like (some) PGA Tour players want their cake and to eat it too.

 

There's a big difference between a resort caddy and a Tour caddy. The dude could have said No Thanks to Kuchar.

 

 

So it's OK to stiff a resort caddy because he's not part of the PGA Tour clique, thats fair.

 

Take a look at the phone you're typing on.

 

So it's OK for Apple or (insert Android here) to outsource the components of your cellphone to China for pennies on the dollar in comparison to US labor...because those folks are located in China as opposed to the USA.

 

When are you going to give up your phone in the name of faux-morality and fairness?

 

The irony is uncanny.

 

I sometimes outsource my arguments and get them from the elementary school - strangely those seem to resonate the best!

 

Oh yeah? Yeah!

[OldTomMorris]

Take a look at the phone you're typing on.

 

So it's OK for Apple or (insert Android here) to outsource the components of your cellphone to China for pennies on the dollar in comparison to US labor...because those folks are located in China as opposed to the USA.

 

When are you going to give up your phone in the name of faux-morality and fairness?

 

The irony is uncanny.

 

Fantastic analogy I really see the irony now.

[bscinstnct]

I've been reading this for two days, so I might as well go ahead and throw my hat in the ring on the side of the minority. Kuchar made a verbal business agreement . . . shook hands . . . played golf for a week . . . Kuchar paid the dude the agreed to amount . . . their partnership for the week is done and Kuchar has honored the agreement. That's what MEN do. MEN make a promise on a handshake and MEN follow through, which is exactly what Kuchar did. MEN don't act like whiny little b%*@* and go back on their promise and handshake because something is "not fair" and drag the fairness issue through the court of public opinion. The fair is a place you go to ride the ferris wheel and throw baseballs at cupie dolls. The fair is not a place in the real world. Kuchar's job was to play golf and honor his MEN'S handshake with the caddie, not to change his life forever (i.e., buy him a house, buy him a car, send his kids to college).

 

Hear, hear!

 

Need to go go back to the days when MEN agreed to work in a coal mine for 3-cents a day and honor their agreement, and not act like whiny little b%+@&* ; )

[slide13]

So why aren't all you guys tipping the bag boy at the club thousands of dollars? You've got more than they they do. Is that fair? It would change that guys life. What holds you back?

 

If they assisted me in winning a huge sum of money I absolutely would be!

 

This isn’t a case of everybody needs to go throw money at people just for the hell of it. Tucan played a roll in Kuchar winning $1.3 million dollars. Nobody is saying Kuch should be paying him a huge sum if he’d have lost but giving a portion of the winnings to the caddie is standard practice. So much so that there is a generally agreed upon number for tour caddies at 10%. And no, Tucan isn’t a regular tour caddie so maybe that isn’t the expectation there. But if I had just spent 4 days with a guy on my bag and I won $1.3 million I wouldn’t feel anything close to okay just giving him $5,000. Even $50,000 at that point seems a little meeger to me. If 10% is the standard for a regular tour caddie, 5-7% feels right to me in this case.

[Hawkeye77]

The thing that seems off about Tucan's supporters is the idea that he was incapable of handling himself in this situation. Some interloper had to get involved to help him. This incredible bias/racism at the core of their arguments go unnoticed by those supposedly "just trying to help".

 

No, your stupid and ridiculous accusation is just that.

 

That facts are he's had plenty of assistance. Whether he really "wanted" to handle this is an open question as is their levels of assistance. Take that undertone somewhere else, it's not in this thread.

 

That's an overtone, nothing under about it.

 

Already edited my post to take out the "overtone", but since you are still defending it, nothing more I can say. I'm not a Tucan "supporter" as you may define it, but wouldn't think about suggesting those who are are some sort of racists. Helping the little guy is helping the little guy regardless of . . . never mind, it won't take. You know better!

[Forged4ever]

So why aren't all you guys tipping the bag boy at the club thousands of dollars? You've got more than they they do. Is that fair? It would change that guys life. What holds you back?

Yea, Ok...

 

Stay well,

RP

[MtlJeff]

So why aren't all you guys tipping the bag boy at the club thousands of dollars? You've got more than they they do. Is that fair? It would change that guys life. What holds you back?

 

I'll take False Equivalences for .38%, Alex.

 

It is, but I doubt the loudest critics of Kuchar are the ones who have the money to change a bag boy's life with a 3000$ tip.

 

Some yes, as mentioned it's a reasonable position to think he did a "cheap" thing. But the most outspoken people "this is gonna BLOW UP on social media and follow Matt FOREVER!" are probably not country club execs LoL

[Mr. Grumpy]

Take a look at the phone you're typing on.

 

So it's OK for Apple or (insert Android here) to outsource the components of your cellphone to China for pennies on the dollar in comparison to US labor...because those folks are located in China as opposed to the USA.

 

When are you going to give up your phone in the name of faux-morality and fairness?

 

The irony is uncanny.

 

Fantastic analogy I really see the irony now.

 

Hahah,, think of Kooch as a guy who outsourced for the week.. GM, Ford, Levis, heck insert your favorite brand,, they all under, er fair pay for labor in other countries.. The next Nike golf shoe drop is just around the corner,,, remember to send extra to the factory worker for making you look so fresh on the course...

[mds5062]

$50K seems excessive but I would've done $30k. 10x the original amount and enough to make this a non story. Kutch was dumb for not thinking ahead.

[Christen_The_Sloop]

Just picked up some Skechers shoes, damn they are comfy.

 

Funny, I heard they were a little tight.

 

Tightest on tour.