119th U.S. Open -- What a triumph for the USGA

[Big Cat 3]

> @JaNelson38 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"15th Club" said:

> > > > @Konklifer said:

> > > > > @"15th Club" said:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > With all respect to Gary Woodland for a wonderful win, today belongs to the administrators of the 119th U.S. Open.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Seriously? The day belongs to Woodland, not the USGA. Get a grip.

> > >

> > > Oh, I think that's true for most of the golf world and the sporting world at large. Because they were not quite so obsessed with how badly the USGA was bound to fail. At GolfWRX, the day belongs to the USGA.

> > >

> >

> > Mike Davis didn’t hit a shot. But he did shank the announcement of the flyover.

> >

> >

> >

> > The day is Gary Woodlands. Period.

> >

> > The USga was saved from it’sSelf BECAUSE of patrons who complained.

>

> My favorite was Mike Davis putting his hands up to tone down the USA chant.

Almost like his dramatic mad dash on the green in Tigers 2008 US Open .. Mike Dippy Davis super hero and now leader of the free world

 

[duffer987]

> @"15th Club" said:

> > @ebrasmus21 said:

> > 15th - I’ve never got sideways with you (that I can remember) but the arrogance of your OP is why so many of us loath the USGA.

>

> "Loathe." The word you want is "loathe," not "loath."

>

> Loathe is the word for reviling and hatred. ("I loathe sportstalk radio.")

>

> Loath means reluctance. ("I'd be loath to listen to sportstalk radio.")

 

I don't loath to point out how doubling down on the arrogance - with a patronising touch - just makes people loathe the arrogance on display all the more.

[dan360]

They left the course alone and didn’t try in vain to protect par. Overcast skies, cool temps, a marine layer, and double digit winning score. Ho hum event.

 

Hardly perfect but considering the disasters they caused lately, I’ll take it.

[GeorgeHWB]

20 more years of this and the USGA might shake their reputation for being arrogant idiots.

[straightshot7]

It played like a regular Tour event with slightly longer rough.

 

What exactly was the novel accomplishment by the USGA compared to every other Tour stop?

[mallrat]

To be fair Chris Dalhamer deserves all the credit you are attempting to give to the USGA. He executed their direction. So good plan by the USGA but massive credit to Chris Dalhamer, Pebble Beach Superintendent, and his crew on their execution. Remember the USGA just basically oversees and nitpicks, the crew executes.

[munichop]

@dan 360

I agree. Nobilo said it at Erin Hills. The governing bodies failed to address equipment creep for 2 decades and are now faced with the choice of watching all the honored records vs. par get destroyed or turn the course into a Mickey Mouse gotcha event. They have to choose one or the other or pray for a two club wind. This course even under tough setup conditions has getable holes. Coupled with four days of marine layer temps and low winds the course had little chance. When a chasing player gets to the final par 5 and hits 3 wood, 3 iron over the green without wind to help it gives you an idea of the state of the game that the governing bodies have, through their failure to regulate equipment at the highest level, allowed to exist. So a guy like GW can admit at 35 that he could be a tour winner and only within the last year emphasize learning the short game is a testament to what matters now in golf.

[MtlJeff]

> @straightshot7 said:

> It played like a regular Tour event with slightly longer rough.

>

> What exactly was the novel accomplishment by the USGA compared to every other Tour stop?

 

There were no stories about how they ruined it.

 

That, by US open standards, is a success.

[bladehunter]

> @munichop said:

> @dan 360

> I agree. Nobilo said it at Erin Hills. The governing bodies failed to address equipment creep for 2 decades and are now faced with the choice of watching all the honored records vs. par get destroyed or turn the course into a Mickey Mouse gotcha event. They have to choose one or the other or pray for a two club wind. This course even under tough setup conditions has getable holes. Coupled with four days of marine layer temps and low winds the course had little chance. When a chasing player gets to the final par 5 and hits 3 wood, 3 iron over the green without wind to help it gives you an idea of the state of the game that the governing bodies have, through their failure to regulate equipment at the highest level, allowed to exist. So a guy like GW can admit at 35 that he could be a tour winner and only within the last year emphasize learning the short game is a testament to what matters now in golf.

 

This is exactly the problem. Equipment creep which has then attracted strong athletes from other avenues. It’s impossible to protect par today without a Mickey Mouse course with windmills and clown heads. Seriously. This course this week wasn’t a cake walk. But the top 20 Ate it’s lunch. The rest did not. The strong players and the deadly accurate players scored. And that is all the USGAs fault.

 

 

[15th Club]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @munichop said:

> > @dan 360

> > I agree. Nobilo said it at Erin Hills. The governing bodies failed to address equipment creep for 2 decades and are now faced with the choice of watching all the honored records vs. par get destroyed or turn the course into a Mickey Mouse gotcha event. They have to choose one or the other or pray for a two club wind. This course even under tough setup conditions has getable holes. Coupled with four days of marine layer temps and low winds the course had little chance. When a chasing player gets to the final par 5 and hits 3 wood, 3 iron over the green without wind to help it gives you an idea of the state of the game that the governing bodies have, through their failure to regulate equipment at the highest level, allowed to exist. So a guy like GW can admit at 35 that he could be a tour winner and only within the last year emphasize learning the short game is a testament to what matters now in golf.

>

> This is exactly the problem. Equipment creep which has then attracted strong athletes from other avenues. It’s impossible to protect par today without a Mickey Mouse course with windmills and clown heads. Seriously. This course this week wasn’t a cake walk. But the top 20 Ate it’s lunch. The rest did not. The strong players and the deadly accurate players scored. And that is all the USGAs fault.

>

>

 

Haha.

 

The thread titled, "It's 2019. How Will the USGA Mess Up This Year's US Open?" featured you all over it. Was that your complaint at that time? That the USGA has not effectively limited equipment? I might actually agree if that were the thesis! Then the next topic will of course be, "What new equipment regulations are needed from golf's ruling bodies?" Let's roll back golf ball specifications for a start, and go from there.

 

This week, a long-hitter like Gary Woodland (and yes, because of equipment technology, Woodland and Koepka and 20 others -- more, really; but that's what you are saying -- hit the current balls too far) had every club in his bag tested. He needed driver and he needed to hit it straight. He needed long irons off the tee and from some fairways. Every mid-iron in his bag was tested, and he essentially won the tournament as the #1 player with strokes gained scrambling if I heard the Fox announcers correctly.

 

To a man, every player I heard interviewed last night stated that they thought the course was set up very fairly and very well.

 

Anyway, I'm delighted that you've come around and are now on board with an equipment rollback. And since the prime piece of equipment to be rolled back is the ball, that is the first place we can start. You and I will both need to ramp up our support for the USGA, since a lawsuit by Titleist would seem to be a likely reaction to any ball rollback.

 

[JaNelson38]

> @munichop said:

> @dan 360

> I agree. Nobilo said it at Erin Hills. The governing bodies failed to address equipment creep for 2 decades and are now faced with the choice of watching all the honored records vs. par get destroyed or turn the course into a Mickey Mouse gotcha event. They have to choose one or the other or pray for a two club wind. This course even under tough setup conditions has getable holes. Coupled with four days of marine layer temps and low winds the course had little chance. When a chasing player gets to the final par 5 and hits 3 wood, 3 iron over the green without wind to help it gives you an idea of the state of the game that the governing bodies have, through their failure to regulate equipment at the highest level, allowed to exist. So a guy like GW can admit at 35 that he could be a tour winner and only within the last year emphasize learning the short game is a testament to what matters now in golf.

 

PGA Tour golfers are also, generally speaking, better now than what they were back during the "honored records" time. I know that may sound like a shock to the golf purists out there, but its true. The Tour is better and deeper than any time in its history.

 

Gary Woodland is not some pushover golfer. He was ranked 25th in the world entering the week. The fact that so many people are/were surprised that he won, and won convincingly, is a testament to the state of the game right now. The PGA Tour right now isnt just Tiger, Phil, and 140 also-rans...yet so many people still think it is.

 

As far as the difficulty of the course, as I said in another thread, the scoring average at Pebble this week was 72.3. While the top of the field did well - as is the case in most PGA Tour events - on the whole, the course was tough and demanding despite the benign conditions. Only 31 players broke par over 4 days on a 7000-yard golf course.

[Ferguson]

> @"Mr. Hogan" said:

> 15th Club is enjoying the kool aid.

 

C'mon dude - that was a great event.

[jonwil]

> @munichop said:

> @dan 360

> I agree. Nobilo said it at Erin Hills. The governing bodies failed to address equipment creep for 2 decades and are now faced with the choice of watching all the honored records vs. par get destroyed or turn the course into a Mickey Mouse gotcha event. They have to choose one or the other or pray for a two club wind. This course even under tough setup conditions has getable holes. Coupled with four days of marine layer temps and low winds the course had little chance. When a chasing player gets to the final par 5 and hits 3 wood, 3 iron over the green without wind to help it gives you an idea of the state of the game that the governing bodies have, through their failure to regulate equipment at the highest level, allowed to exist. So a guy like GW can admit at 35 that he could be a tour winner and only within the last year emphasize learning the short game is a testament to what matters now in golf.

 

This.

[freddiec]

Pebble Beach was showcased this week and set up great. Mother Nature is mainly responsible for the overall great condition. The usga is familiar with Pebble probably more than any other course. They got it right and so did Gary Woodland ! Fun to watch

[tgoodspe1991]

The leadership of the PGA of America and the superintendents at Bethpage Black repeatedly said they want no credit/attention for their course setup. They said they want to do their job, stay out of the spotlight, and let the course speak for itself. They ran a flawless event and checked their egos at the door.

 

There is no denying the USGA finally didn't botch a US Open and that Pebble Beach was setup well. It was a great event all around. But why people hate the USGA is because they want all the attention for it, then you have a guy with a freakin' USGA avatar logo coming on here saying the day belongs to the USGA.

 

Gary Woodland won his first MAJOR CHAMPIONSHIP, and you want the day to be remembered as the day the USGA finally didn't f**k up a US Open? Get outta here.

[buckeyefl]

> @"15th Club" said:

> Congratulations to Gary Woodland, and Low Amateur Viktor Hovland (closing with 67).

>

> And what a triumph for the USGA! For a month now or more, how many GolfWRX comments and thread topics have been devoted to not if, but how, the USGA would ruin this event? The course setup was near-perfection. Great play was rewarded. Strategy was demanded, and when risks were taken with great execution, the rewards were great. (Woodland, on 14 and 17.) Barely-sloppy play was punished. (Matt Kuchar, a very solid player, going rough, to rough, to rough.)

>

> It was a great leaderboard from start to finish. The best player in the world right now, Brooks Koepka, had an opportunity to exhibit his skills, and was only beaten by an even better performance. History was on the line, as Koepka had a chance at a 3rd consecutive national championship.

>

> We have seen Pebble Beach every year for a Tour event, and for a half-dozen US Opens and never has the course been set up any better. It was the USGA that took Pebble and put it on the Majors map, notwithstanding the wonderful history of Bing Crosby.

>

> With all respect to Gary Woodland for a wonderful win, today belongs to the administrators of the 119th U.S. Open.

>

 

Today belongs to the administrators? My God you are delusional. They did what they are supposed to do. Im glad you arent a judge or we would have serials murderers on the loose because of the one time they didn't Jaywalk.

[SirFuego]

> @munichop said:

> Erin Hills.

Speaking of which, are the people praising the setup at Pebble, despite the low scores, the same people that were criticizing Erin Hills?

Both courses need wind to keep the scores high. Neither course got winds, but only Erin Hills got the criticism for being too easy?

[buckeyefl]

This might be a record for the number of likes in one thread.

[15th Club]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @"15th Club" said:

> > Congratulations to Gary Woodland, and Low Amateur Viktor Hovland (closing with 67).

> >

> > And what a triumph for the USGA! For a month now or more, how many GolfWRX comments and thread topics have been devoted to not if, but how, the USGA would ruin this event? The course setup was near-perfection. Great play was rewarded. Strategy was demanded, and when risks were taken with great execution, the rewards were great. (Woodland, on 14 and 17.) Barely-sloppy play was punished. (Matt Kuchar, a very solid player, going rough, to rough, to rough.)

> >

> > It was a great leaderboard from start to finish. The best player in the world right now, Brooks Koepka, had an opportunity to exhibit his skills, and was only beaten by an even better performance. History was on the line, as Koepka had a chance at a 3rd consecutive national championship.

> >

> > We have seen Pebble Beach every year for a Tour event, and for a half-dozen US Opens and never has the course been set up any better. It was the USGA that took Pebble and put it on the Majors map, notwithstanding the wonderful history of Bing Crosby.

> >

> > With all respect to Gary Woodland for a wonderful win, today belongs to the administrators of the 119th U.S. Open.

> >

>

> Today belongs to the administrators? My God you are delusional. They did what they are supposed to do. Im glad you arent a judge or we would have serials murderers on the loose because of the one time they didn't Jaywalk.

 

I am going to ignore your non-sequitir of a response on legal matters, and instead point out that it isn't simply a matter of the USGA having effectively executed a well-constructed plan. That, by itself, might not be news. What is news is that for weeks, GolfWRX commenters have been predicting/speculating/talking about how the USGA would definitely screw it up. And the USGA didn't screw up anything.

 

I know that you in particular don't want to hear that, which is precisely why I posted.

 

[LICC]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @munichop said:

> > @dan 360

> > I agree. Nobilo said it at Erin Hills. The governing bodies failed to address equipment creep for 2 decades and are now faced with the choice of watching all the honored records vs. par get destroyed or turn the course into a Mickey Mouse gotcha event. They have to choose one or the other or pray for a two club wind. This course even under tough setup conditions has getable holes. Coupled with four days of marine layer temps and low winds the course had little chance. When a chasing player gets to the final par 5 and hits 3 wood, 3 iron over the green without wind to help it gives you an idea of the state of the game that the governing bodies have, through their failure to regulate equipment at the highest level, allowed to exist. So a guy like GW can admit at 35 that he could be a tour winner and only within the last year emphasize learning the short game is a testament to what matters now in golf.

>

> This is exactly the problem. Equipment creep which has then attracted strong athletes from other avenues. It’s impossible to protect par today without a Mickey Mouse course with windmills and clown heads. Seriously. This course this week wasn’t a cake walk. But the top 20 Ate it’s lunch. The rest did not. The strong players and the deadly accurate players scored. And that is all the USGAs fault.

>

>

 

If there were drier and windier conditions, and the resulting firmer greens, scores would have been closer to par. Considering the conditions, the course set-up was as good as can be. I prefer what they did compared to killing the greens to make them tabletops. A winning score less that -15 on a relatively short course and benign weather conditions showed the setup was good- the challenge was in hitting fairways, scrambling out of the thick rough, and setting up putts from the correct parts of the greens.

[LICC]

> @SirFuego said:

> > @munichop said:

> > Erin Hills.

> Speaking of which, are the people praising the setup at Pebble, despite the low scores, the same people that were criticizing Erin Hills?

> Both courses need wind to keep the scores high. Neither course got winds, but only Erin Hills got the criticism for being too easy?

 

The fairways were way too wide at Erin Hills, and the greens weren't very challenging. Neither was the case at Pebble.

[buckeyefl]

So you didnt really mean it, you just wanted to stir the crap a little? Oh and the analogy was dead on. Get back to use after 20 years of good decisions and we will discuss their course setups and attempts to change the game for personal reasons and if they can avoid that then maybe they deserve a fraction of the irrational reverence you spew on them.

[15th Club]

> @buckeyefl said:

> So you didnt really mean it, you just wanted to stir the crap a little? Oh and the analogy was dead on. Get back to use after 20 years of good decisions and we will discuss their course setups and attempts to change the game for personal reasons and if they can avoid that then maybe they deserve a fraction of the irrational reverence you spew on them.

 

 

No; I meant it. I meant every word of it. And more. What I found to be "crap" were the posts and comments about how the USGA would definitely ruin the Pebble Beach US Open before the players even arrived or had seen the setup. I did not want anybody to forget about those posts.

 

Someday, you and I will have another, similar exchange. It will be when the USGA rolls back golf ball performance, and I say to you, "I told you so."

 

[gioguy21]

for everyone who said the course was playing on the easier side -- keep in mind this:

 

1) the marine layer hung around on the weekend considerably longer than expected -- no sun means no wind -- no drying out of greens or fairways and overall leads to softer conditions

2) a by product of 1); this course was designed to be played and setup to be played - in windy conditions. if you added just 10mph of wind on any of the days, i think we see the winning score under -10, and if it were more than just one day...i think we're looking at a winning score of around -5; not -13.

 

the ironic thing about this discussion is that if the winds HAD picked up...the course might've been too much. the greens were quite firm on 7, 8, and 10 -- having players hit short of the green and bouncing up. if those greens got dried out a bit and the wind picks up - most of the discussion would be on how the USGA failed, not succeeded.

 

praising the USGA for the weather is ridiculous -- the essence of what the OP is doing.

 

the grounds crews, super, etc need to be the ones to be praised b/c they kept the place immaculate and to 'spec' for the week -- i bet they're as happy as we are (and the players are) that the place stayed a bit damp so that they didn't lose the course like shinne or chambers.

 

[new2g0lf]

I didn't participate in the thread 15 clubs referenced but I'm not sure the USGA should be dislocating their shoulders patting themselves on the back. The weather dictated most of the setup, had the course been dry and windy we'd not have seen the tournament we did this week.

[imakaveli]

If the first year of not epic failing is considered a triumph well... good luck!

[buckeyefl]

> @"15th Club" said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > So you didnt really mean it, you just wanted to stir the crap a little? Oh and the analogy was dead on. Get back to use after 20 years of good decisions and we will discuss their course setups and attempts to change the game for personal reasons and if they can avoid that then maybe they deserve a fraction of the irrational reverence you spew on them.

>

>

> No; I meant it. I meant every word of it. And more. What I found to be "crap" were the posts and comments about how the USGA would definitely ruin the Pebble Beach US Open before the players even arrived or had seen the setup. I did not want anybody to forget about those posts.

>

> Someday, you and I will have another, similar exchange. It will be when the USGA rolls back golf ball performance, and I say to you, "I told you so."

>

 

Praising the murderer for murdering again. No surprise and exactly as one would expect based on your delusion problem.

[15th Club]

> @gioguy21 said:

> for everyone who said the course was playing on the easier side -- keep in mind this:

>

> 1) the marine layer hung around on the weekend considerably longer than expected -- no sun means no wind -- no drying out of greens or fairways and overall leads to softer conditions

> 2) a by product of 1); this course was designed to be played and setup to be played - in windy conditions. if you added just 10mph of wind on any of the days, i think we see the winning score under -10, and if it were more than just one day...i think we're looking at a winning score of around -5; not -13.

>

> the ironic thing about this discussion is that if the winds HAD picked up...the course might've been too much. the greens were quite firm on 7, 8, and 10 -- having players hit short of the green and bouncing up. if those greens got dried out a bit and the wind picks up - most of the discussion would be on how the USGA failed, not succeeded.

>

> praising the USGA for the weather is ridiculous -- the essence of what the OP is doing.

>

> the grounds crews, super, etc need to be the ones to be praised b/c they kept the place immaculate and to 'spec' for the week -- i bet they're as happy as we are (and the players are) that the place stayed a bit damp so that they didn't lose the course like shinne or chambers.

>

 

I really wondered if any of the USGA's pre-Open critics would walk it back after this tremendously fair, quality tournament. And I am seeing that largely no, none of them here are willing to give the USGA its props, no matter what the week's evidence was. It's the USGA's fault if anything goes wrong and it is someone else's credit -- certainly not the USGA -- if anything goes right. GolfWRX comments are such a perfect microcosm of that phenomenon.

 

 

[gioguy21]

> @"15th Club" said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > for everyone who said the course was playing on the easier side -- keep in mind this:

> >

> > 1) the marine layer hung around on the weekend considerably longer than expected -- no sun means no wind -- no drying out of greens or fairways and overall leads to softer conditions

> > 2) a by product of 1); this course was designed to be played and setup to be played - in windy conditions. if you added just 10mph of wind on any of the days, i think we see the winning score under -10, and if it were more than just one day...i think we're looking at a winning score of around -5; not -13.

> >

> > the ironic thing about this discussion is that if the winds HAD picked up...the course might've been too much. the greens were quite firm on 7, 8, and 10 -- having players hit short of the green and bouncing up. if those greens got dried out a bit and the wind picks up - most of the discussion would be on how the USGA failed, not succeeded.

> >

> > praising the USGA for the weather is ridiculous -- the essence of what the OP is doing.

> >

> > the grounds crews, super, etc need to be the ones to be praised b/c they kept the place immaculate and to 'spec' for the week -- i bet they're as happy as we are (and the players are) that the place stayed a bit damp so that they didn't lose the course like shinne or chambers.

> >

>

> I really wondered if any of the USGA's pre-Open critics would walk it back after this tremendously fair, quality tournament. And I am seeing that largely no, none of them here are willing to give the USGA its props, no matter what the week's evidence was. It's the USGA's fault if anything goes wrong and it is someone else's credit -- certainly not the USGA -- if anything goes right. GolfWRX comments are such a perfect microcosm of that phenomenon.

>

>

 

...i'm unwilling to give USGA credit for good weather, that is correct. know why? they had beautiful weather whilst at chambers and shinne...but you know what they DIDN'T do as an organization? water the course; or set it up based on the changing conditions day to day based off player feedback or relative score -- to support fairness.

 

it's easy to say they did a great job when there is no wind, a damp course and relatively benign conditions -- wow cool, you guys showed up for the trophy presentation -- thanks.

 

meanwhile the guys with the rakes, hoses, tractors, mowers, etc are standing there with dirt on their hands and sweat on their brows -- but yes, lets' praise the blazers for showin up.

[dlygrisse]

The USGA did a nice job, just like they were supposed to do. They were in the background running the event, they were NOT the topic of conversation. The problem with the USGA in the past is it seemed they wanted to create controversy, "we are in charge of the rules, do as we say, we will penalize you, here is how the rules work etc. etc. etc." Look at us, look at us!!!

 

They seemed to get it right, here is hoping this way of doing things is trending the right direction. As for the score....yeah I like to see the US Open tough, but at some point you have to let the weather conditions dictate the score. The weather was for the most part perfect, if the wind would have been howling, like it was when Kite won there, the scores would have been much higher.