New Fitted irons have poor performance, what can I do?

[fixed_gear]

This is also posted on reddit r/golf

 

Question for those that either build clubs or have had fittings. I recently went to a full bag fitting and everything is working great, outside of the new irons. I switched from Adams a4 irons with s300 stiff shafts to Srixon z785 irons with modus3 120x shaft. I am about an 11 handicap prior to the fitting. The fitter used 7 irons and I hit using a Trackman 4, with the wind negated, from a hitting bay into the range. When I got fit I was carrying my old irons 175 yards. The Srixons were going on average 173 yards flying higher, spinning more, better dispersion, and great turf interaction. The runner up was the Callaway apex 19 forged irons. They carried 177 on average, but didn't have the best turf interaction and had to be bent up 2 degrees. The iron fitting probably took close to two hours as the fitter and I would talk about the clubs,shafts, specs, feel and just generally talk. I hit probably about 150 shots during this time period.

 

Flash forward to getting the clubs at the end of August. The irons feel great going through the turf, I'm a digger, and they fly in a great launch window. However, the ball seems to stall out and the irons are about 2 club lengths shorter. Even when I flush a 7 iron I am caring about 150-155 yards. I have had about nine range session and 5 rounds of golf on them, they just don't fly. I have altered my swing, which I know is not the purpose of going to a fitting, to try and find more power......they just don't carry. The fitter has said to come back in at no charge and they will "take care" of me. Problem is that they are 1.5 hours away from me and it's hard to get there, outside of taking off work. I'm wondering what they could actually do that wouldn't cost me money, outside of checking the loft and lie angles. The lofts don't seem off, since they all are about 1.5-2 club lengths shorter than my previous set. Is it possible the I have a dud/lemon set of irons or shafts? If so, how are warranties handled? I've been racking my brain at night trying to figure it out?

 

TL; DR: I got fit for irons and the new ones are 1.5-2 club lengths shorter that my 10+ year old irons and what Trackman was reading during the fitting. Is it possible to have a "lemon" set of irons, or is there some other issue that could cause this, and what's my recourse? The fitter has offered to reevaluate them for free.

[cardoustie]

shafts not right is my guess

I'd find time to go back for a "dental appt"

[KMeloney]

Go back to the fitter, and hit the new clubs against your old ones again. You'll know immediately whether it's the clubs, or whether you were never actually getting in the 170s with a 7-iron in real-world conditions.

[fixed_gear]

To Clarify:

-I'm using the same balls as before. ProV1 and ZStar

-Used my old 7 iron as a benchmark during the fitting

-Only changed swing AFTER they new irons didn't produce.

[jvincent]

If you hit your old 7i on the course at the same time as your new one do you still have the same distance gap?

[fixed_gear]

> @jvincent said:

> If you hit your old 7i on the course at the same time as your new one do you still have the same distance gap?

 

Yes, it's the same distance gap. Not only with the 7i but with all of them. I generally take two more clubs than I used to use on the same hole.

 

[ChipNRun]

If your old irons had the Dynamic Gold S300 shafts, they were a heavy 130 grams; but, they were actually a tad softer in flex compared to other OEMs so-called Stiff shafts (problem of no industry standard). Designed for low launch.

 

The Modus.3 Tour 120 X flex weighs 120 grams, and has a heavy and stiff tip to increase stability. Designed for mid-low launch profile.

 

I'm somewhat knowledgeable about shaft differences, but to me nothing stands out as the key to the problem. Are you possibly losing clubhead speed with the X flex, even though it's lighter weight?

 

Take a day off, and go back and see the fitter to find out what the problem is.

 

(I had a set of custom-fit irons that just didn't work for me. Turns out the factory botched the trim and gave me shafts a half-inch too long.)

[KMeloney]

> @fixed_gear said:

> To Clarify:

> -I'm using the same balls as before. ProV1 and ZStar

> -Used my old 7 iron as a benchmark during the fitting

> -Only changed swing AFTER they new irons didn't produce.

 

I understand. It's just that it sounds like these clubs weren't built to the same specs as the 7-iron you demo'd.

 

What't the swing change you've made [in such a short time] to compensate, anyway? Doesn't sound particularly pertinent in this discussion, but you never know.

[fixed_gear]

> @ChipNRun said:

> If your old irons had the Dynamic Gold S300 shafts, they were a heavy 130 grams; but, they were actually a tad softer in flex compared to other OEMs so-called Stiff shafts (problem of no industry standard). Designed for low launch.

>

> The Modus.3 Tour 120 X flex weighs 120 grams, and has a heavy and stiff tip to increase stability. Designed for mid-low launch profile.

>

> I'm somewhat knowledgeable about shaft differences, but to me nothing stands out as the key to the problem. Are you possibly losing clubhead speed with the X flex, even though it's lighter weight?

>

> Take a day off, and go back and see the fitter to find out what the problem is.

>

> (I had a set of custom-fit irons that just didn't work for me. Turns out the factory botched the trim and gave me shafts a half-inch too long.)

 

When I did the fitting the modus was at 93 mph, which was within 1 mph of the s300.

[jjmurry]

Oh no.... OP you're worrying me haha! I just got fit into the Srixon Z785's with Modus 120X's as well... coming from Ctaper 130X's where I had excellent distance control (170 yards for 7i without exception), the Srixons were a little high launching with a little higher spin (hit from a bay to an outdoor range with Trackman 4 as well....) but the fitter promised that the flight would be correct when they bend the irons two degrees strong. I have been reading up on the Modus 120X's and it appears it's a higher spinning shaft than what I am used to. Hopefully your fitter is able to find a solution for you. It sounds like I may be in the same boat and I'm very concerned myself haha!

[webwarmiller]

Where you hitting ProV1's and/or Zstars when getting fit or were you hitting range balls. If the latter, then you were fit into irons that work best with range balls and not what you actually play.

[fixed_gear]

> @webwarmiller said:

> Where you hitting ProV1's and/or Zstars when getting fit or were you hitting range balls. If the latter, then you were fit into irons that work best with range balls and not what you actually play.

 

I was hitting Callaway Chrome Soft that they only use for fittings. I know that they are softer and spin more, but not that much of a discrepancy.

[fixed_gear]

> @KMeloney said:

> > @fixed_gear said:

> > To Clarify:

> > -I'm using the same balls as before. ProV1 and ZStar

> > -Used my old 7 iron as a benchmark during the fitting

> > -Only changed swing AFTER they new irons didn't produce.

>

> I understand. It's just that it sounds like these clubs weren't built to the same specs as the 7-iron you demo'd.

>

> What't the swing change you've made [in such a short time] to compensate, anyway? Doesn't sound particularly pertinent in this discussion, but you never know.

 

Taking more of a full turn in the back swing and more in to out path. Consciously feeling like I'm trying to hit a draw

[Zigzog]

The modus has a pretty unique shaft profile - many it just doesn't suit you.

[Adam C]

First thing you need to do, before anything else is check your impact location on the face. Do this before you call the fitter or try to make any adjustments. This sort of issue usually has a couple possible causes. First, and most obvious would be lofts, but that shouldn't be an issue coming from older clubs. More likely the shafts are causing you issues. Nothing is wrong with the shafts, however the way they feel (flex during your transition) is very likely throwing off your sequencing. I have a guess that you are probably over swinging in the transition and losing power (aka head speed) at impact. This can also cause you to miss the center of the face. So you could be losing head speed and therefore ball speed and or losing ball speed because of contact. Check your impact point and then check your club and ball speed if you can.

You might also just try and put about 5-8g of lead tape on the head and see if that changes anything. The weight will soften up the shaft a bit and give it a little more flex feel, which you might find helpful.

[jvincent]

> @fixed_gear said:

> > @jvincent said:

> > If you hit your old 7i on the course at the same time as your new one do you still have the same distance gap?

>

> Yes, it's the same distance gap. Not only with the 7i but with all of them. I generally take two more clubs than I used to use on the same hole.

>

 

I meant hitting them back to back, not based on what you used to hit.

 

Two clubs difference is huge. Lofts being off would not account for that much distance so you'd have to lost a lot of ball speed to account for that.

[mizuno player]

Check lofts?

[nitram]

Take 'em back to where you bought 'em. And as mentioned, take your old 7-iron and compare. Mistakes happen. If that's the case, the builder should make it right.

[fixed_gear]

> @jvincent said:

> > @fixed_gear said:

> > > @jvincent said:

> > > If you hit your old 7i on the course at the same time as your new one do you still have the same distance gap?

> >

> > Yes, it's the same distance gap. Not only with the 7i but with all of them. I generally take two more clubs than I used to use on the same hole.

> >

>

> I meant hitting them back to back, not based on what you used to hit.

>

> Two clubs difference is huge. Lofts being off would not account for that much distance so you'd have to lost a lot of ball speed to account for that.

 

I hit them side by side with the same range balls today and brought out both sets and went through all the irons. They were at least 10 -best (8i) to 20 yards (5i) - worst, than the old ones.

[Valtiel]

In addition to what @"Adam C" said above, if you do need to go back, and you should, make sure you're getting all the data to figure out where the lost distance is coming from including both the club measurements (loft, lie, swing weight, static weight, grip size etc) and shot measurements (launch angle, ball speed, clubhead speed, smash factor, spin, angle of attack, club path etc etc). Somewhere in that data when compared to your old irons will be the cause of the problem. Do NOT walk away from this situation without knowing exactly why these clubs aren't working. This is valuable opportunity to learn why this type of problem occurs, it is well worth the drive.

[Howard_Jones]

Go back to the club fitter. The clubs you got delivered is most likely with different specs than the one used during fitting, and it could be anything from wrong shafts to head specs and balance, most likely combined with several specs thats off. This time, bring your gamer balls too. Doing a outside fitting using a different ball than you play makes no sense, and even if its unusual for irons, balls might be "1 club as difference", but we see that more often on drivers than we do on irons.

[enfuego]

A lot of people love the v sole but I found it made me swing down more and spin the ball more over time. When I first got z565 I was coming from being a sweeper and hit the irons great but then over time I felt like the sweet spot was higher up so I naturally had a steeper attack angle causing more spin and losing distance. Switch back to a thinner sole with less bounce and I'm picking the ball more again with less spin.

[jvincent]

> @fixed_gear said:

> > @jvincent said:

> > > @fixed_gear said:

> > > > @jvincent said:

> > > > If you hit your old 7i on the course at the same time as your new one do you still have the same distance gap?

> > >

> > > Yes, it's the same distance gap. Not only with the 7i but with all of them. I generally take two more clubs than I used to use on the same hole.

> > >

> >

> > I meant hitting them back to back, not based on what you used to hit.

> >

> > Two clubs difference is huge. Lofts being off would not account for that much distance so you'd have to lost a lot of ball speed to account for that.

>

> I hit them side by side with the same range balls today and brought out both sets and went through all the irons. They were at least 10 -best (8i) to 20 yards (5i) - worst, than the old ones.

 

That's definitely odd. Definitely go back and see what's up.

[WristySwing]

I concur with everyone else here, it sucks you're going to have to make the drive but it sounds like it's worth it than just chalking it up to a "mistake". Did the fitter build the clubs for you or did you buy these from Srixon directly?

[azone]

You can reach a very quick assessment by: go to your fitte/builder. Hit, in same session, your old 7 iron; your new 7 iron; and the FITTING 7 IRON WHICH WAS USED TO MAKE THE BUILD DECISION. Data is good, but comparing data is better. When you compare the results of hitting each of these irons at the same session, with the same balls, you will have your answer.

[chocolate_rehab]

The drive is kind of irrelevant unless you want to be out of pocket for irons that don't work. All custom club fitters have some kind of fit guarantee, and it sounds like your guy is willing to make it right. Make the drive.

[farmer]

> @azone said:

> You can reach a very quick assessment by: go to your fitte/builder. Hit, in same session, your old 7 iron; your new 7 iron; and the FITTING 7 IRON WHICH WAS USED TO MAKE THE BUILD DECISION. Data is good, but comparing data is better. When you compare the results of hitting each of these irons at the same session, with the same balls, you will have your answer.

 

What a reasonable suggestion. The mystery will be if that fitting iron is still intact and on site.

[indianalawnguy]

> @fixed_gear said:

> > @jvincent said:

> > If you hit your old 7i on the course at the same time as your new one do you still have the same distance gap?

>

> Yes, it's the same distance gap. Not only with the 7i but with all of them. I generally take two more clubs than I used to use on the same hole.

>

 

Have u actually taken both sets out to the course to verify that you still hit your Adams irons 2 full clubs farther than the new srixon irons ? It doesnt matter how far you hit the adams at one time... It matters how far you hit them today/now.

If ????? You still hit your adams 2 clubs longer than the new srixons i would go back to your fitter and hit them in front of him. Shaft could def be part of the issue.

Like someone else said, tell work u have a dentist appt and make the 1.5 hour trip. Its not fair to the fitter to put this off and then expect him to fix it next year. My .02.

[fixed_gear]

Went back to the fitter. We spent about 2.5 hours working on the irons. He started off by saying that if it wasn't right, that they would refund me the money for the clubs, or reshaft them if needed at no cost to me. To hear that right away set me at ease. I warmed up and he noticed that the toe was catching the turf early. This seemed off to him and he had me hit the same setup that I have with the irons being 2 degrees up right. The five swings I had with them, everything was a big hook. This happened when I was originally fitted. The fitter still believed that I needed the irons bent upright. So we started with the 7 and bumped it 1.5 upright. Bam, just like in the fitting. The irons felt like a scalpel through the ground, face felt like butter, and the shaft loaded properly. We also checked yardage and it was spot on. 174 carry, in the cold Midwest weather, right where is should be. We did this with every club; they were all bumped .5 - 2.0 degrees upright and some of the lofts were adjusted to compensate for moving upright and to dial in the the yardages.

 

Also, while he was bending the irons, he let me hit a bunch of other stuff to make sure that I was satisfied and got what I wanted. MP-20s, T200s, P790s with different shafts. Even hit the P7TW blade, surprisingly well. The Srixons with the modus 120 still performed the best.

 

 

I went to the range the next day and the flight was the same off of grass as the mats in the fitting bay. They did a great job in correcting the error and I couldn't have asked for a better experience, outside of it being correct the first time.

[third-times-a-charm]

So they were TOO upright causing the hook? IIRC too flat would make them slice, not hook?